i own two power cords.
they are braided and 14 gauge. i also use ear to ear and soundstring.
the western electric cords were fabricated by a friend. they were very reasonable.
i found them to be slightly subtractive in the lower treble while not losing bass response. |
Asa SimplyQ: I know what these things might be/mean - radical subjectivism vs. scientific materialist perspectives. I want to know what YOU think/know/feel/see, RE: what "work" and "quality" IS... Why? I don't see that it has any particular relevance. |
SimplyQ: I know what these things might be/mean - radical subjectivism vs. scientific materialist perspectives. I want to know what YOU think/know/feel/see, RE: what "work" and "quality" IS...
OK, since you didn't answer my question, I get to ask another one first...What does this mean, and what does it possibly have to do with the perception of music:
The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflections,
The water has no mind to receive their images.
A real answer, please. |
Agear I have seen a lot worse. This is child's play compared to some other sites I have inhabited. The absolute worst I've ever experienced is the rec.audio.opinion newsgroup. Haven't visited there for some years, but it was the worst cesspool on the topic of audio I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot. |
I have seen a lot worse. This is child's play compared to some other sites I have inhabited. That being said, I am not a fan of censorship in any forum and believe in freedom of expression even if it is deemed ugly. I am also not a fan of aggressive, unbalanced, unsubstantiated claims about equipment (and more importantly equipment comparisons) that can metamorphosize into a nasty dialectic of slander/advertising whether it comes from an end-user, dealer, or manufacturer. We need three things: grace, balanced objectivity free of self-interest and self-promotion, and transparency. |
Mintzar So I suggest we let this discussion die or be deleted and move on from lessons learned. No argument here. |
Well now that we've all seen the worst side of what forums can do... let's eat cake and move on. Cats can come too.
There are always going to be clashing personalities and differences of opinion. It could be in audio, it could be in a bank. It is FAR too easy to misunderstand when reading text and especially when dealing with people on the internet. Ultimately, they're just words and are only sharp-edged when the receiver of those words lets them be.
So I suggest we let this discussion die or be deleted and move on from lessons learned. I imagine no one will lose sleep over staying in the gray area.
As Confucius once said... "Man who goes to bed with itchy butt, wakes up with stinky finger." --I have no idea what that had to do with anything. But there you go.
//conversation over. |
Simply Q , so when my wife walks into the room and says wow,
that sounds better... What did you do to the stereo... without prompting...
That likely means I did something that to improve the sound.
There are many " real improvements" out there for your stereo system.
You can also change equipment and make it sound worse.
To say it is mostly in your head and not real, that is your opinion but I don't buy it. Just leave it at that. |
The blatant advertisng annoyed me more than anything. I enjoyed the back and forth but did not need the excessive commercial breaks.
Perhaps, as Fuzzbutt17 has claimed, he lacks forum experience. I hope he comes back without the pushy marketing messages.
Regards, |
Fuzzbutt17 He finally did send me a link to his website... Because you finally sent me an EMail asking me as I had originally requested. |
Csmgolf A man with as many years of experience as Simply Q had to know what type of reaction was going to be provoked simply from being involved in forums for as long as he has. You never know what sort of reaction you're going to get because you never know who the paranoid, overly-defensive, reactionary people are until after the fact. All I can say is that with as many years of experience that I have, most people don't fit that description and are capable of having a calm, respectful discussion even when there is disagreement. Not only does he have to have the last word, he has to have the last two words. I admit, the "Good riddance" wasn't terribly good form. But I have my limits. And as you can see, Fuzzbutt17 has trumped those measly two words with another 200 or so of his own. |
Thank you Csmogolf. I also wish this thread could be deleted.
I don't need "free advertising" and I am somewhat ashamed that I was unable to resist responding to Simply Q's postings.
He finally did send me a link to his website and I have to say that I think his cables look QUITE nice.
I've worked with similar cotton covered Litz wire that I got from NOS Western Electric switchboard "patch" cords.
Those cables sounded VERY good and though I've never heard them, I'm quite sure Simply Qs cables sound good as well. |
This thread should be deleted. Though there has been some very good technical information presented here, both sides have behaved incredibly poorly. A man with as many years of experience as Simply Q had to know what type of reaction was going to be provoked simply from being involved in forums for as long as he has. Especially with the tone often used in his posting. Not only does he have to have the last word, he has to have the last two words. I am not denouncing his technical expertise which is obviously very high, just how it is presented. And Fuzzbutt17 should have taken his own advice form early on and left it alone. What went from defending his product turned into advertising. I believe this was unintentional, but a lack of experience in dealing with people who see nothing but black and white and refuse to admit there may possibly be something called gray. To believe that we know all there is to know about the human hearing mechanism and how to measure everything we can hear/perceive is incredibly arrogant. |
Has ANYONE seen me post on a forum before?
Has ANYONE seen me promote my company or products on a forum before?
The answer is NO.
The ONLY reason I felt the need to post ANYTHING at first was that my company and my products were identified by name and with links and comments were made about them being FIRE HAZARDS.
Later I found Simply Q insulting one company after another as well as audiophiles in general and I naively respond.
In hindsight I should have let it go.
If I'm such a "huckster" than why is it that you have NEVER seen ONE SINGLE posting by me in the past?
I wasn't "promoting" myself I was "defending" myself.
Granted I may have done it poorly and gone overboard.
I leave all of you with this one thought:
Over the next year or so please look for any postings I may make (I doubt you'll see any).
At the same time check out how many posting you see from Simply Q that insult other companies or audiophiles in general (I'm sure you'll see many).
I sincerely apologize to anyone aside from Simply Q that I may have offended. |
Fuzzbutt17 On that note, I will sign off. Good riddance. And now, back to another 30 minutes of commercial free music... ;) |
Fuzzbutt17 Simply Q: still avoiding me and my RELEVANT questions. They weren't relevant at all. To start with, you have ALL my contact information. If you wanted to send me information about your company in private you had every opportunity. I didn't have any particular desire to send you that information. You wanted me to post that information here in the forum. However it served no purpose for this discussion and since I have no desire to promote my company in these forums I refused. Further, I said if you wanted to know just for your own curiosity, you were free to EMail me. Since I haven't received any EMail from you, I can only assume that the reason for your wanting to know wasn't simply to satisfy your own curiosity. Should I send you an ENGRAVED INVITATION? No. A simple EMail would suffice. As for what products you have PERSONALLY listened to, that is RELEVANT because it confirms that you are commenting on products and theories (like magnets) that you have experience with or that you are a know-it-all and are talking out your @#$. I don't need to listen to anything to know that a static magnetic field isn't going to do anything like Mintzar described. And in case it escaped your notice, what I addressed was only that which Mintzar had claimed. As for Tripoint, all I've said is that there's nothing to say about them because there's no useful information on their website to say anything about. So please explain to me why it's relevant that I listen to a product that I've said absolutely nothing about. Have I been marketing OR offering 3rd party independent confirmation to refute unsubstantiated accusations? You've been marketing since your first post and in a most over-the-top fashion. To the point that it should more rightly be called huckstering than marketing. It was stated that NOS wire is a fire hazard. What I said was that I wouldn't recommend using the old Western Electric cloth insulated wire for power cords. That had absolutely nothing to do with your product as your product hadn't even been mentioned at that time. So again, what's the relevance of listening to a product I've not said anything about? Then YOU accused me of profiteering by frequently upgrading my product over short periods of time. Admittedly, I did make a rather snarky comment regarding frequent upgrades. But only because I was getting sick of your constant marketing of your products in this forum. But by the same token, when you said that your customers can have their older products upgraded for free, I said if that's the case I thought that was admirable. Then YOU accused me of not clearly stating my return or upgrade policies. Fist, I didn't say anything about your return policy. Second, what I did was ASK you if free upgrades were an option that was available to everyone who has purchased your products. And if so, you shouldn't keep it such a secret as I saw nothing on your website offering free upgrades. You never answered that question. Funny how MOST of the so called "advertising" I did was in response to YOUR accusations. Funny how you attempt to twist reality to cover your ass. My comment regarding frequent upgrades was a RESPONSE to yet another of your marketing attempts. Specifically: Why have their been so many upgrades to Mojo Audio products over the past year? That is because we don't "hold out" like most companies so that they can launch new products at the next show.
Are products are HAND MADE in SMALL BATCHES so we are able to upgrade our materials and methods frequently. Not one word of that had anything whatsoever to do with anything what was being discussed here. It was pure, unsolicited advertising. Funny how MOST people I know like to get 3rd party independent confirmation on a company's products but YOU consider this to be UNIMPORTANT. I've no idea what this has to do with. I have a THEORY...
You resent other businesspersons success because you believe with all of your experience and with the amazing values in audiophile products you produce you should be getting "a larger piece of the pie." No. What I resent are hucksters like you taking advantage of non-commercial forums like this for the purpose of marketing your products. Also...
You REFUSE to tell the people on this thread who you are and what your company is for fear that it would give them ammunition to accuse you of things much as you have been doing to other RESPECTED companies and businesspersons. What I REFUSE is to post the name of my company publicly in this thread in response to a question which has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to what's being discussed. Sure, I could take advantage of your question and post it here, but that would be taking advantage. And I prefer not to do that. I'm not here to market and promote my company and products. I'll leave that to you. NO ONE on this thread is being denied knowing who I am and what my company is. As I've said before, anyone who wishes to know is free to EMail me. So far two have done so. Neither of them were you. The only thing I'm denying anyone is being further beaten upside the head with more shameless, unsolicited advertising that doesn't belong here. |
Fuzzbutt17...I asume you were talking to me and no, never met SQ in my life nor come across him in the forums. I'm just a regular Joe idiot audiophile who occasionally wastes valuable time from my life here.
"you must be on the "short list" of audiophiles that have the ability to discern if something sounds better or not."
I have no idea what that means...
Nice post! |
There are several PEOPLE that have been posting on and reading this thread that have contacted me on my PRIVATE e-mail who, like me, want to know who Simply Q is and get the link to his company's website.
Fuzzbutt17 Why the heck are these people who want to know who Simply_q is emailing you? They should be emailing him. I had a suspicion as to who he was (his user name is very telling) but I emailed him anyway and he confirmed what I suspected. I assure you he is someone with audio manufacturing and technology know how. His products have been reviewed and not just by audiophiles and beta testers, but by trade publications. Many of his peers in the industry respect and seek his expertise. Can he be arrogant, sure, but I think he has the credentials to be. Can he be insulting, sometimes, hey we're not all perfect. I don't need to see any emails you have on this topic or on Simply_q. You really should go away now. Like Richard_stacy you have biased me. Too bad, it does appear that you have some nice cables, even those interconnects on your Website that in their clear wrapping look a lot like Goertz ;) http://mojo-audio.com/Coherent-Ribbon-Interconnect-IC-R.htm |
Notice I said "people" and not "everyone."
There are several PEOPLE that have been posting on and reading this thread that have contacted me on my PRIVATE e-mail who, like me, want to know who Simply Q is and get the link to his company's website.
I can only assume that you are a friend of Simply Q's and that you must be on the "short list" of audiophiles that have the ability to discern if something sounds better or not.
Many other audiophiles that have read this thread (notice I didn't say "all") find him to be INSULTING and ARROGANT.
I would gladly forward some of these e-mails to you if you want to CONFIRM that I'm telling the truth. |
Simply Q consistently insults audiophiles in REPEATEDLY stating that a SIGNIFICANT percentage of audiophiles can't hear if one product sounds better than another.
Simply Q consistently insults respected companies by stating that their products are not good and have no basis in technical reasoning.
Simply Q consistently accuses respected companies of being vague or putting technically incorrect information on their websites.
Simply Q consistently accuses others of "hiding in the shadows" or "vagueness" yet he refuses to respond to ANY question I (or others) have asked that he can not twist around to his advantage.
At the same time he won't give us the link to his website or even confirm if he has actually HEARD any of these products that he's degrading.
Oddly enough, my entire marketing is based on the fact that I believe that if a person actually can compare two products side-by-side that they will EASILY be able to decide for themselves what sounds better.
I must compliment Simply Q in that he is a MASTER at goading people on forums to react while avoiding responding to anything that may put him at a disadvantage.
It is obvious that Simply Q has spent DECADES on these forums and that I have not.
On that note, I will sign off.
I should have listened and not even attempted to respond to Simply Q's obviously maliciously intended postings.
Hopefully Simply Q will send me the link to his website on my private e-mail as I requested. |
Fuzzbutt17...I am one of the "people on this thread" which you are suggesting need to know of SQ's personal/vocational resume and I can assure you, I do not. Respectfully, please do not act as a spokesman for the rest of the forum community (at least me...). |
Simply Q: still avoiding me and my RELEVANT questions.
To start with, you have ALL my contact information. If you wanted to send me information about your company in private you had every opportunity.
Should I send you an ENGRAVED INVITATION?
As for what products you have PERSONALLY listened to, that is RELEVANT because it confirms that you are commenting on products and theories (like magnets) that you have experience with or that you are a know-it-all and are talking out your @#$.
Have I been marketing OR offering 3rd party independent confirmation to refute unsubstantiated accusations?
It was stated that NOS wire is a fire hazard.
Then YOU accused me of profiteering by frequently upgrading my product over short periods of time.
Then YOU accused me of not clearly stating my return or upgrade policies.
Funny how MOST of the so called "advertising" I did was in response to YOUR accusations.
Funny how MOST people I know like to get 3rd party independent confirmation on a company's products but YOU consider this to be UNIMPORTANT.
I have a THEORY...
You resent other businesspersons success because you believe with all of your experience and with the amazing values in audiophile products you produce you should be getting "a larger piece of the pie."
Also...
You REFUSE to tell the people on this thread who you are and what your company is for fear that it would give them ammunition to accuse you of things much as you have been doing to other RESPECTED companies and businesspersons.
You may consider that the issue with your resentments toward successful companies stems from the fact that your attitude may be chasing customers away.
Seriously. |
Clio09 Simply_q, yes I know about the hazards, not sure if it applies in my situation, probably does, guess I'll just take the chance. Fair 'nuff. Just that I often see this scheme recommended by those who make the assumptions I mentioned. As long as you know they're not safe assumptions that's cool. However not everyone does so it was at least worth mentioning. |
Richard_stacy, thank you for the kind words.
Er, except for the part where you said you didn't agree with all my views. ;)
|
Who needs Herman and Sean when we have Richard_stacy who hits the nail right on the head.
Ben mentioned he was advised not to participate in forums. He should have taken that advice.
Simply_q, yes I know about the hazards, not sure if it applies in my situation, probably does, guess I'll just take the chance. |
jrn Simply q , "works" means it musically sounds better or more pleasing in your system. You have to have that defined,...really? When it does not work it simply means whatever you changed makes it sound not as musically pleasing. Yes, but there can be two reasons for that. One is that it sounded better/different/worse because of an actual audible difference brought about by the item in question, and the other is that there was no actual audible difference and it sounded better/different/worse for purely psychological reasons, i.e. what some would generally refer to as the placebo effect. So, when a company claims their product "works," which of those two possibilities do they have in mind? Judging by much of the marketing, there seems to be a rather heavy implication of the former. |
I posted a ways back that this was entertaining and damn it, I cannot stop following it!
I have trouble with some of these attacks on Simply_q and have to chime in here. I have tremendous respect for someone who is able to stay on task in a "debate" such as this one and what I see is a guy who has done so. Near every comment has been pretty damn relevant and to my brain, made much more sense then most of the posters. I do not agree with all his views however I do think they have been relevant and objective. I also have to agree that Ben's posts have begun to sound like a marketing campaign and to be quite frank, not a good one. I have gone from certainly curious about the product to having no interest what so ever. |
Clio09 Ayre is one company that double insulates its equipment chassis. Charles Hansen has posted numerous times on Audio Asylum his views on ground noise. Yup. Sadly, the Ayres are rather far and few between. I also have lifted the grounds off the three prong cords by disconnecting the ground wire altogether, except the one for my power amp. Not a good idea from a safety point of view. First it assumes that the interconnected chassis have their signal reference grounds tied to the chassis through a low impedance path. Second, it assumes that the interconnects and circuit board traces are all sufficient to carry the fault current in the event of one of the chassis going hot. |
My eyes are tired after reading this.
Where's Sean and maybe Herman at a time like this ? |
Fuzzbutt17 You give either hit and run or avoidance answers to specific questions. I don't care to waste time answering questions which have absolutely nothing to do with what's being discussed. My guess is that I'm not the only person on this thread that would like to know the name of your company and have the address of your company's website.
What are you hiding from? Not hiding from anything. As I told you, if you'd like to know the name of my company and the website, just EMail me. However I haven't received any such EMail from you or anyone else for that matter so it would seem you're not so interested after all. As for listing all the forums you've been a part of for so many years, all that means is you've had access to a computer for that many years and have potentially been criticizing some and misleading others for that long. I never intended it to have any particular meaning or relevance with respect to anything I've said. You're the one who demanded the "resume." I humored you. Now you don't like some of the answers. Well boo hoo. They were completely irrelevant to begin with. What I say either has merit or it doesn't and has absolutely nothing to do with who I am or what I've done. Instead of sticking to addressing what I've said, you've routinely attempted to obfuscate and try and make it a "personal" issue. FYI, I don't go on forums to promote my company. As a matter of fact I RARELY go on forums at all.
On this thread people gave my company's name, my eBay listing, and my website address and made accusations about my power cords bursting into flames. And you had every right to respond to what had been said. But you weren't content to stick to that. Instead you took advantage of the situation and used it to launch into a marketing campaign in an attempt to try and sell your products here. From your first post in this thread: I have DOZENS of customers that replaced their "whose who" Stereophile class A rated $2K+ power cords with mine. The same is true of my interconnects and digital cables.
Don't take my word for it. Don't take their word for it. I suggest you try my (or any other companies) products first hand, for yourself, in your system.
Everything I sell comes with a 30-day unconditional money back guaranty. All you risk is the cost of shipping. There is not even a re-stocking fee.
BTW, I am also "Fuzzbutt17" on eBay if you want to see HUNDREDS of positive feedbacks. That's not addressing anyone's concerns about safety. That's just shameless, bald-faced MARKETING. If you want to sell your products, that's what the classifieds and advertisements here are for. Not the forums. I wouldn't even have noticed it if it wasn't for SEVERAL of my loyal customers sending me e-mails with a link to this thread. And even now you never miss any opportunity to continue your marketing campaign. What the hell has "SEVERAL of my loyal customers" have to do with anything relevant to this discussion? Nothing. Then you attacked me over several things that I wrote and we were off and running. Ah, yes. The favorite obfuscation of the quack, the charlatan, the cult leader and the politician. Frame any sort of disagreement by others as an "attack." BTW, Mitzar was referring to a specification from the website of Topaz where THEY state a -136db noise reduction. Where is this Topaz website? Wasn't able to find it. I don't know exactly what this means but any REASONABLE person would assume that it OVERLAPS not ADDS TO the noise of the system which makes it totally valid. I'm simply going by what Mintzar said, which was "Two of which lower the noise floor by 136dB and the third by 146dB." I took him to mean the noise floor of the audio system as ultimately that's the only noise floor that counts at the end of the day. |
Simply q , "works" means it musically sounds better or more pleasing in your system. You have to have that defined,...really? When it does not work it simply means whatever you changed makes it sound not as musically pleasing.
Now I am sure you figure a way to argue about that too.
You are a funny guy. Yes you do seem to want to argue crazy things.
You might not think so but .... No matter. Every forum has someone like you. |
BTW, the actual DEFINITION of "worth the money" would be if people are willing to pay for something.
To me a diamond is just a pretty piece of compressed carbon and worth relatively little.
Obviously I'm a minority when it comes to the value of a diamond.
I've heard people talk about how this or that product are not "worth the $$$" such as Mac computers or Mercedes Benz cars.
Then again, I don't hear that from the people that can afford to buy them only from the people that can't.
It is a VERY different story when I hear a person who has OWNED a Mercedes or a Porsche and has the means to purchase another one tell me they prefer the Toyota they now drive then a person that sits back and judges value on things that are out of their price range.
As an audiophile we all know how much more it costs for relatively subtle improvements in sound quality.
The only fair way to judge if a company's products are "worth the $$$" would be to see if they stay in business or not. |
The fact that Miguel has sold quite a few Troy units (an owner of which now owns 3 Mojo audio power cords AND is looking for an isolation TX) should attest to the fact that it is worth $12k in enough systems for him to be able to sell it.
Mintzar I mentioned earlier I can believe his products work, I certainly know he spent a lot of time in R&D, but to state that something is worth X number of dollars just because it sells isn't necessarily true. As to the owner you mentioned, why after spending all that money on a Tripoint product would they need to look for an isolation transformer? I would have expected at their price point that the Tripoint products would be the last word in lowering the noise floor. FWIW I have had Topaz isolation transformers in my system. I do believe they lower the noise floor, but in some environments they create noise as well. After all they are transformers. I will say this, isolation transformers offer a much higher cost/benefit ratio than many high dollar power products on the market. Just like some cable manufacturers, some people that manufacture power products are riding an incredible marketing wave. |
Now, what it CAN do is help reduce noise from the single most common source of noise in audio systems, and that's interchassis leakage currents in the safety ground lead of the power cables.
Simply_q Exactly, and while I agree it's a band aid, it's a rather inexpensive yet effective tweak with a much better cost to benefit ratio than a product that costs $8k - $12k. I'm not saying the Tripoint products don't work, but they're priced for those with much deeper pockets than most of us. For those on a more modest budget the Granite Audio Ground Zero provides a similar solution at a much lower cost. The real culprit is the safety ground.
And it's only required on equipment chassis that don't meet Class II (double insulated) standards.
The manufacturers of low- and mid-fi gear have been designing their chassis to meet Class II specs for decades, and is why you see none of it come with three prong cords.
However the so-called "high-end" manufacturers have yet to figure this out and three prong cords are ubiquitous, even on equipment which may well meet Class II specs. So instead they foist three prong plugs on everyone along with the problems they can bring about.
Simply_q Ayre is one company that double insulates its equipment chassis. Charles Hansen has posted numerous times on Audio Asylum his views on ground noise. In my system I have a few components that use two prong attached cords. I also have lifted the grounds off the three prong cords by disconnecting the ground wire altogether, except the one for my power amp. |
Simply Q, you are "hiding in the shadows."
You give either hit and run or avoidance answers to specific questions.
My guess is that I'm not the only person on this thread that would like to know the name of your company and have the address of your company's website.
What are you hiding from?
We didn't ask for advertisements or a copy of your last year's income tax statement.
As for listing all the forums you've been a part of for so many years, all that means is you've had access to a computer for that many years and have potentially been criticizing some and misleading others for that long.
Not what I would call something to put on a resume.
FYI, I don't go on forums to promote my company. As a matter of fact I RARELY go on forums at all.
On this thread people gave my company's name, my eBay listing, and my website address and made accusations about my power cords bursting into flames.
I wouldn't even have noticed it if it wasn't for SEVERAL of my loyal customers sending me e-mails with a link to this thread.
Then you attacked me over several things that I wrote and we were off and running.
How about answering a some SPECIFIC questions:
Have you ever heard any of (my) Mojo Audio's products?
Have you ever heard any of Tripoint's products?
Have you ever heard a .005pf isolation transformer such as the Topaz and Xentec that we have been discussing?
What magnet based technology audiophile products have you heard?
What is the criteria you use to evaluate the products you sell? (For this I would expect a long answer)
Do you believe that what you read on technical analytical gear (like an oscilloscope or distortion analyzer) tells the whole story of how gear sounds?
If you include the name of your company and your website address that would make 7 simple questions.
Inquiring minds want to know.
BTW, Mitzar was referring to a specification from the website of Topaz where THEY state a -136db noise reduction.
I don't know exactly what this means but any REASONABLE person would assume that it OVERLAPS not ADDS TO the noise of the system which makes it totally valid. |
Fuzzbutt17 Now you've established some credibility. But for what purpose exactly? Words should stand or fall on their own, not on who says them. Not even Einstein got away with that. What is the name of your current company and what is the link to your website? Why? What relevance does that have? Unlike some, I have no interest in using the forums here to promote my company or my products. So unless you can tell me how that's relevant to the discussion, I'd prefer not to say. If you simply want to satisfy your own curiosity, send me an EMail. Obviously these companies must be doing something right or they wouldn't be in business. Sure. But "doing something right" isn't saying anything in particular. The "something right" a company may be doing may be nothing more than marketing. There's no end of companies who have been in business for a long time selling complete BS. Look at the ads in the back of the National Enquirer sometime. Maybe you can explain to me why everyone prefers my 8AWG power cords over my other ones (and anything else they've heard). Could be any number of reasons, including purely psychological reasons. And unless one is able to control for that ambiguity, then no one can give any sort of definitive explanation. And people simply preferring your 8 gauge cords over the other ones doesn't say anything definitive one way or the other. So far every tech I've spoken to tells me there is no reason they should sound better... And you don't give any plausible reason why the should. So I guess you're even. I simply enjoy them and sell them to anyone else that wants to enjoy them. Great. Then why not keep it as simple as that? Works for me. |
Asa SimplyQ: I am impressed by your hew-ing of the UL's and [wire] resistances in your path, but I am interested in your definition of "work" and "quality" and "subjective."
Are you game? "Work" can mean a number of things. I gave two different instances of it previously. What I wanted to know is what Fuzzbutt17 intended it to mean. As for "quality," it can mean a number of things as well. It can be ascribed to some sort of purely objective standard (i.e. "This amplifier's distortion is 0.05%"), or a purely subjective standard (i.e. "This amplifier sounds great!"). As for "subjective," it's that which exists within our mind and is not necessarily an accurate reflection of any objective reality. |
Mintzar Miguel is WORKING on patents for his products, they haven't gone through yet. Once they go through he will be displaying all of his technology for the world to see. Be fair. I am being fair. The website says "Differential and common noise reduction with our patent magnetic modules." And whenever I see "patent" mentioned, my BS meter starts twitching. It's absolutely meaningless to the customer. The patent office today rubber stamps most everything, including perpetual motion machines. It's just cynical marketing aimed at those who believe a patent somehow means something other than simply the right to sue. Two of which lower the noise floor by 136dB and the third by 146dB. This makes absolutely no sense. If your noise floor is say, -100dB (not uncommon in a decent system), and you lower that noise floor by 136dB, then your noise floor would have to be -236dB. Which is simply impossible. No gizmo you plug your power cords into can do anything about the self-noise created by the electronics themselves. And no audio electronic system could ever achieve a noise floor of -236dB. The thermal noise in the conductors would be greater than that. Next... magnets.
Cables of all kinds, and anything that has any sort of current through it creates a magnetic field. Yes. What you may not be taking into account is that when magnets are added together their magnetic field DECREASES. The key word here being MAGNETS, as in permanent magnets, i.e. the things you stick on your 'fridge. By adding magnets to cabling and various other products you are effectively decreasing the magnetic field around the conductor. No, you're not. What you're not taking into account (or Mr. Alvarez for that matter if this is his belief as well) is that the magnetic field produced by the permanent magnet is static. It doesn't change. Whereas the magnetic field produced by the cable is always changing. And even with the cable being subject to the static magnetic field from the permanent magnet, the magnetic field produced by the cable still changes. And more to the point, it changes by the exact same magnitude as it was without the static magnetic field. So as far as the cable is concerned with respect to the magnetic field that it's producing, nothing has changed. Read up on "superposition." Now, if you had something which could produce an exact mirror image of the changing magnetic field produced by the cable, which means it would have to wrap 360 degrees around the cable, then you could reduce and ultimately completely cancel the changing magnetic field around the cable. But that would get rather complicated. Though if you were able to surround the cable with something that was highly diamagnetic you could achieve something similar. But even the most diamagnetic materials such as bismuth are only rather weakly diamagnetic. Bottom line, you're pretty much stuck with the cable producing a magnetic field. The pulsing of the magnetic field increases resistance in the conductor. Yes. That's called skin effect. By minimizing this magnetic field and lowering resistance you have less distortion. Sure. But unfortunately, a permanent magnet does nothing to reduce the magnitudes of the changing magnetic fields which cause skin effect. If you want to eliminate skin effect, just use a proper litz wire. Of course it's a well known technology over a century old so it's not going to seem as sexy and alluring as saying something is new, proprietary and on its way to being patented, but it's quite effective. Let's also cut the crap here, Simply. Grounding systems DO make a difference. That's easy enough to say as there's literally nothing that DOESN'T "make a difference" to some number of people. Placing photographs of yourself in your freezer makes a difference to some (no, I'm not making this up). So to simply say something makes a difference isn't saying anything particularly meaningful. |
Now you've established some credibility.
What is the name of your current company and what is the link to your website?
You claim to know a great deal about a great deal.
You claim to know things that others don't.
You claim that much of what other successful companies are doing or saying is not valid.
Obviously these companies must be doing something right or they wouldn't be in business.
Obviously I must be doing something right or I wouldn't be taking customers away from such prestigious companies as I have been.
Maybe you can explain to me why everyone prefers my 8AWG power cords over my other ones (and anything else they've heard).
So far every tech I've spoken to tells me there is no reason they should sound better and that wire of a certain AWG is good for a certain amperage and all that.
I don't feel any need to explain.
I simply enjoy them and sell them to anyone else that wants to enjoy them. |
I have to chime in again.
Miguel is WORKING on patents for his products, they haven't gone through yet. Once they go through he will be displaying all of his technology for the world to see. Be fair.
I have heard Miguel's Spartan and Troy products in his personal system. They are quite good. I wouldn't purchase them myself, but I also have 3 Topaz isolation transformers. Two of which lower the noise floor by 136dB and the third by 146dB. I have heard MANY high-end conditioners and not one comes close to the neutrality or sheer effectiveness of the Topaz. I have brought them over to quite a few houses (Ben, RX8MAN, and Agear included) and not one time did I leave them disappointed in the performance. Quite the opposite.
Next... magnets.
Cables of all kinds, and anything that has any sort of current through it creates a magnetic field. What you may not be taking into account is that when magnets are added together their magnetic field DECREASES. By adding magnets to cabling and various other products you are effectively decreasing the magnetic field around the conductor. The pulsing of the magnetic field increases resistance in the conductor. By minimizing this magnetic field and lowering resistance you have less distortion.
Let's also cut the crap here, Simply. Grounding systems DO make a difference. WHY they make a difference isn't quite what we're talking about here. The fact that Miguel has sold quite a few Troy units (an owner of which now owns 3 Mojo audio power cords AND is looking for an isolation TX) should attest to the fact that it is worth $12k in enough systems for him to be able to sell it. It seems to me that you are taking every point that someone makes and telling them why they are wrong. Interestingly enough, every point that has been made on this thread is a topic that has made not only a difference, but the SAME difference in every single system I've heard it in. |
Jrn Simple Q try one of the 8 awg Mojo power cords.
Then state your opinion. For what purpose exactly? And it's Simply Q, not Simple Q. Do read your replies? You Sound very arrogant. Why? Because I have opinions you may not agree with? You seem to relish in arguing for the sake if arguing. Nah. If I were arguing for the sake of arguing then I'd have to try and come up with reasons for arguing. Too much work. You asked the defintion of "works" I bet most everyone knew what that meant. So tell me what it meant. |
Simple Q try one of the 8 awg Mojo power cords.
Then state your opinion. Do read your replies? You Sound very arrogant.
You seem to relish in arguing for the sake if arguing.
You asked the defintion of "works" I bet most everyone knew what that meant. |
Fuzzbutt17 There's an old expression: those that can, do. Those that can't, criticize.
What the $%#! have YOU ever done? I've been involved with high end audio for nearly 30 years. I designed and developed my first commercial product some 20 years ago (you can see a photograph of it here). It was the inspiration behind Corey Greenberg's Aunt Corey's Homemade Buffered Preamplifier DIY article published in Stereophile back in 1991. If you've ever read the article, I'm Elvis. I've been involved in the online audio community for over 25 years, from The Audiophile Network BBS and CompuServe's Consumer Electronics Forum in the 80s, to Audio Asylum and diyAudio today. Currently my company manufactures interconnects and loudspeaker cables and I'm working on some electronics I hope to introduce this Fall that utilize passive signal amplification, something I've been developing off and on over the past five or six years. I also do contract work for several other audio companies. Happy now? |
Clio09 I've know a number of people who have implemented this grounding scheme with great results and at a significantly less cost than Tripoint charges for their technology. Finally had some time to read post 28 in that thread. I'm afraid Danmyers has some common misconceptions about "ground." Namely the misconception that "earth ground," i.e. a rod stuck in the ground, has some particular relevance to an audio system. It doesn't. Many people believe that earth ground is some magical one-way drain for noise and RF. It isn't. He recommends using a number of copper braid ground straps tied to your components and then brought to a single point that's plugged into the safety ground socket on your wall outlets. This won't help in any way with regard to EMI and RFI. Now, what it CAN do is help reduce noise from the single most common source of noise in audio systems, and that's interchassis leakage currents in the safety ground lead of the power cables. Long story short it's due to capacitive coupling between the AC cord's hot lead and the safety ground lead. The safety ground is connected directly to the equipment chassis and in many components, the signal reference ground is also tied to the chassis. Leakage current flows through the safety ground leads and because those leads have a non-zero resistance, there will be a voltage drop across them. This voltage can then appear at the inputs of interconnected components. By using the copper braid to connect the equipment chassis to the safety ground socket (and it's only about that connection, not any connection to earth ground), you're creating a lower resistance path for interchassis leakage currents and subsequently a lower voltage drop. However while it can be effective, it's really nothing but a band-aid. The real culprit is the safety ground. And it's only required on equipment chassis that don't meet Class II (double insulated) standards. The manufacturers of low- and mid-fi gear have been designing their chassis to meet Class II specs for decades, and is why you see none of it come with three prong cords. However the so-called "high-end" manufacturers have yet to figure this out and three prong cords are ubiquitous, even on equipment which may well meet Class II specs. So instead they foist three prong plugs on everyone along with the problems they can bring about. Sadly, if a high-end manufacturer did come out with a product that didn't have a three prong cord, many would perceive it as some sort of inferior product. |
My dick is a fairly average: 6" long when erect.
The problem is that you once again asked the WRONG question.
A more pertinent question might be how many lovers have I had, how long did these relationships last, how often did I have sex, and so on.
You see, I don't find the size of my dick so important but what I've been able to do with my dick.
Interestingly enough, that is a direct comparison to my original questions that you avoided.
It is not MY opinion of MY accomplishments (or my dick) that matters, but rather the opinions of others that allow me to verify if I have truly accomplished anything or if I'm just a "legend in my own mind" as they say.
Some examples of what I've done in my career (without the use of my dick):
I had my own computerized embroidery business for over a decade. My customer base read like the "whose who" with customers like Lexus, Toyota, Intel, Chase Bank, United Way, Big Brother's and Sisters, and Lucent Technologies.
These companies could have gone to ANYONE but the went to me.
Before that I was a consultant for about a decade in soft good manufacture and had consulting contracts all over the country as well as Jamaica, Mexico, and Canada. I worked for companies with NFL, NBA, and NHL products licensing.
Before that I was a product development engineer for a famous international footwear company (that I am discrete enough not to name) that had over $20M in sales.
My current Audiophile products company is growing so fast that I can hardly keep up with current sales even with hiring two new employees this past month.
I'm not bragging. I'm trying to make a point. There are HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of people over the years (not to mention lovers) that could have gone with other people or other company's products but have chosen ME.
This means something.
All I know about you is that you own a computer and you think you know everything about everything and you spend your time criticizing others rather than accomplishing things yourself.
There's an old expression: those that can, do. Those that can't, criticize.
What the $%#! have YOU ever done?
How many HUNDREDS of people have confirmed by choosing to spend their hard earned $$$ with you that the products or services you provide are the best value on the market?
BTW, coming from product development and having been a business owner I can understand WHY a company wouldn't put too much information on their website. It is because they don't want their competition to steal their ideas.
Having "patents pending" for the longest period of time possible is a PROVEN business strategy. When you get a patent you have to EXPLAIN HOW YOU DID IT. This allows your competition to attempt to circumvent your patent and steal your ideas. Also, once you have a patent, it is only for so many years so you want to delay the clock as much as possible so that you can enjoy exclusivity as long as possible.
Then again, this is a "big boy" business strategy that you probably wouldn't understand since I sincerely doubt that you have a business of any size yourself or you would have answered my original questions and you would have KNOWN the significance of those answers.
|
SimplyQ: I am impressed by your hew-ing of the UL's and [wire] resistances in your path, but I am interested in your definition of "work" and "quality" and "subjective."
Are you game?
If they let me out of my cage to resurrect order, its something that I do... |
Fuzzbutt17 I noticed that you didn't answer my questions. Because the questions were wholly irrelevant and amounted to nothing more than "My friend has a BIG dick! How big is YOUR dick?" |
Clio09 Simply_q, here you go: http://www.tripointaudio.us/PRODUCTS.htm Thanks, Clio. Went to the website but found absolutely no useful information. Just a lot of buzzwords and hype. He refers to the magnetic modules as patented, but I wasn't able to find any patents issued to a Miguel Alvarez for such a thing. Nor any patent applications for that matter. I do note that his last job before starting Tripoint was as a marketing representative for Bose. ;) Anyway, not much to be said for something that nothing informative has been said about. |
I use a Xentec .001pf isolation transformer modified with my power cord, Maestro audiophile plugs, and anti-resonance treatment.
I have GREAT results and have heard no better in my own home.
I don't use what I use because it's "the best" but only because it's the best I can afford.
I only listen to people's opinions on such things that have used the two products side-by-side over extended periods of time in the same system.
Better yet, done that on multiple systems.
"Great results" is as subjective as you can get. Did ANY of these people compare their "reference" to a Topaz or Xentec .005 or .0001 isolation TX let alone to some of the other more expensive alternatives?
My guess is "NO" so why should I accept their opinion?
On the other hand, I do know of SEVERAL people that have made similar comparisons. People with electronics engineering and other technical degrees that make their primary living working in electronics, recording, or laboratories.
Some of these people (that could afford anything) purchased the Tripoint solution and some purchased laboratory grade iso TXs.
Personally I've compared the Xentec and Topaz .005 to some pretty impressive "hospital grade" iso TXs as well as some pretty expensive and well known audiophile products.
None of them hold a candle to my Xentec let alone to the better 5KVA .0001pf version.
Then again, Xentec and Topaz iso TXs have a VERIFIED rating of something like -136db of noise reduction and are used in laboratories and high end aerospace applications.
That's not a "subjective" review by an audiophile. That's a verifiable technical FACT.
The Tripoint products offer SIGNIFICANT advantages over my Xentec iso TX. The ONLY reason I don't own one is that I can't afford one (yet).
I noticed that you didn't answer my questions.
Who's hiding in the shadows now? |
Simply_q, here you go: http://www.tripointaudio.us/PRODUCTS.htmAudion member Himiguel is the manufacturer. I've had several conversations with him prior to him starting his business so I was pretty aware of his grounding technology and when Ben in his last post mentioned the grounding system it finally clicked. Also, here is comment on Ben's eBay ad referencing the manufacturer: miguel10744 is a manufacturer of high end audiophile power conditioners. He compared my power cords to ones that cost SEVERAL THOUSAND $$$ and mine won. He recently purchased my interconnects and digital cable (from my website): they are now his REFERENCE.
Positive feedback rating:
Cable as described. Great transaction, Highly Recommended. A+ Ben, why hide the manufacturers information? I've never known Miguel to shy away from a conversation about his technology and products. Maybe this is why he doesn't like participating in forums anymore: Thank you for the kind words, Roger. I'm so glad my advise has improved the sound of your system. As you know Holy $hit Inky Blackness can be a highly priced commodity :) But it need not be with a little bit of applied knowledge.
For those interested in what the heck we are talking about, take a look at this thread that Mr. Wavetrader started:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1234813956
Danmyers The specific link in question on that thread can be found here: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1234813956&openflup&28&4#28I've know a number of people who have implemented this grounding scheme with great results and at a significantly less cost than Tripoint charges for their technology. |
