Hi Everyone. My name is Benjamin and I'm the owner of Mojo Audio (Mojo-Audio.com) and one of the leaders in professionally manufactured NOS wire cords and cables.
To start with, there are MANY different vintage wires. Some are safe for a specific end use and some are not. Some sound amazing, some sound OK, and some sound terrible.
Just like with anything else in this world, you need to either know what you are doing or know someone that knows what they are doing.
As for the wire I use, it is mil spec and of the highest quality. There is nothing worn or degraded about it nor will it become worn or degraded with DECADES of use.
The 10AWG wire has a MINIMUM rating of 15A and the 8AWG has a MINIMUM rating of 24A. In lengths used in power cords you could CONSERVATIVELY double those ratings.
The pure copper plug sets I use have a CONSERVATIVE rating of 15A.
In all the time I've been making and selling these power cords I have not had ONE single failure in a cord let alone ONE cord that has tripped a circuit breaker let alone caught fire.
When it comes to "fire hazards" they are usually caused by people using wiring with too low of a current rating. This is often done when people do stupid things like plug too many high current items into an extension cord or an octopus wall adapter.
The concept of a NOS wire power cord that is as OVER-RATED as the ones I make being a fire hazard is INCONCEIVABLE.
I suggest that those of you that are making comments on this or that get your FACTS straight and stop throwing around generalized and misleading information that is likely mislead the naive and make you look foolish to anyone with experience.
As for copper and oxidation, that is completely correct. Pure copper will oxidize over time. The R-copper that my plug sets are made from will not oxidize quickly and using a common contact cleaner like Caig a few times a year will keep them looking and working like new for a lifetime.
For those of you audiophiles that are too lazy to clean your connectors, I would be happy to make you power cords using the same R-copper plugs with gold plating. Granted they won't sound as good as the un-plated pure copper, but that is your choice.
If pure copper plug sets weren't a reasonable option then why would HUGE companies such as Furutech, LeGo, and Yarbo that are WORLD LEADERS in connectors make and sell pure copper plug sets? Ask any Furutech dealer what's the most popular plug set they sell and they will tell you it's the FI-11 Cu (pure copper).
I have DOZENS of customers that replaced their "whose who" Stereophile class A rated $2K+ power cords with mine. The same is true of my interconnects and digital cables.
Don't take my word for it. Don't take their word for it. I suggest you try my (or any other companies) products first hand, for yourself, in your system.
Everything I sell comes with a 30-day unconditional money back guaranty. All you risk is the cost of shipping. There is not even a re-stocking fee.
BTW, I am also "Fuzzbutt17" on eBay if you want to see HUNDREDS of positive feedbacks.
I welcome any questions or comments.
Benjamin
|
On the list of "stupid" my number one is people that bundle several strands of a signal wire with improper insulation (like silk) to make a power cord.
Now THAT is a fire hazard!
If you haven't tried magnets, don't knock them. I've found they reduce noise better than anything else. Then again, you need to use the RIGHT magnet of the RIGHT polarity in the RIGHT situation (have fun experimenting).
As for band width, don't ask me...I'm not a WE engineer.
What I can say is that when we've compared the enameled WE solid core signal wire with the plated solid core signal wire and found that the plating had a bright and hard top end. The enameled sounds MUCH more organic.
We also found that compared to the best of modern cotton covered and air dielectric high purity copper signal wires of a similar gauge that both of them had among the most detail of ANY wire we ever heard in the mid band but lacked energy in the bass and were hard in the top end.
The resulting sound, though impressive at first, was on the thin side and gave me a headache in combination with some music or audio gear.
I can only GUESS that since this wire was intended for VOICE they did something that optimized it in the mids. Once again, I'm not a WE engineer.
As for the WE speaker wire...
It is all PLATED and uses a polymer insulation. The wire itself is actually the same they used for AC...they just made them in twisted pairs with marking or color to ID + from - and called it speaker wire.
Not a sin...didn't we all use the same zip cord for AC and speakers in the day? That was pro and zip cord was for home use.
All I can say is that when you compare it to the best of modern speaker wires you will find it lacking in the top end. Overall it sounds VERY warm and attractive...a great cure for "digititus."
Once again, I can only GUESS that since this was used with older tube amps on high efficiency speaker systems that utilized compression horn drivers (like the famous VOTT), that it was OPTIMIZED for that system.
I've heard VOTTs in a home with this wire. It sounded GREAT. Then again, when you are sitting less than 20' from a compression horn driver that was meant to fill a THEATER you can appreciate a bit of a rolled off top end.
BTW, the VOTTs only go up to about 12Khz...15KHz at best. Once again, they didn't need the extension in the top end.
Please keep in mind, I can only GUESS at the reasons WE did what they did.
My friend and mentor that introduced me to all of this vintage wire called himself an "audio archeologist" and was a collector. He had a ROOM filled with the "whose who" of vintage drivers and amps and would pull them out and set-up systems that we would play around with.
On the other hand, his MAIN system was all high end studio gear. Quite a contrast between the "brutally accurate" modern studio gear and the "attractive distortion" of the vintage. |
Hi everyone. Benjamin from Mojo Audio (Mojo-Audio.com).
I'm actually a bit embarrassed for some of you and your fire hazard and UL listed comments.
Certainly it is your right to only purchase items with UL listings or whatever other certification you prefer.
Feel free to purchase Monster Cable from Best Buy and purchase the extended warranty along with it.
Testing, inspections, and government standards only came into existence to give consumers some confidence in the products they purchased.
Just because a person is driving a car that has been inspected and they passed a driving test doesn't mean they are not a ROAD HAZARD.
User error is the issue, not UL listing.
These listings are no substitute for INTELLIGENCE. Most electrical fires occur due to USER ERROR and UL listed products are at the center of most of them as well.
If an electrical item SHORTS OUT it will NEVER cause a fire; it will simply flip a circuit breaker or blow out a fuse. That is why electrical codes insist on these safety device in all home and commercial circuits.
If an power cord has frayed insulation it will also not catch fire. It may short out and trip the same circuit breaker and it may give you a shock but it will not catch fire.
What causes electrical items to catch fire? Excessive current draw beyond their power rating. This can occur if wire of too small a gauge is used in walls, if outlets of too low a rating are used, if extension cords of too low a rating are used, or if multi-outlet devices of too low a rating or used.
In all of these cases the wire or contacts heat up from too much electrical resistance and cause surrounding materials to burst into flame. This is similar to the way electrical heaters and ovens operate (though "resistance heating" is intentional in those cases).
There is not an amplifier that has a 15A IEC outlet on the planet that has enough current draw to make ANY of my power cords even get warm let alone hot. Most UL listed IEC type power cords only use a 16AWG wire and mine use a 10AWG wire. My power cords are SO over-rated for their intended purpose there is NO CHANCE of over-heating in any way shape or form.
I'm not worried about any of my products failing and getting sued for negligence. I have business insurance so feel free to sue me if you like.
On the other hand, I worry about shoveling snow/ice and racking leaves. I am a bit worried that my postal carrier may slip and fall when he picks up all the packages I ship out every week.
My list of satisfied customers keeps growing and growing. These audiophiles know other audiophiles and word of mouth is my best advertising.
In the past past month I've expanded my production facility by 3X and doubled my number of employees just to keep up with the OVERWHELMING demand.
This was supposed to be a part-time retirement business for me and it has grown beyond my wildest imagination.
You'll be reading about my products in reviews over the next year and I look forward to meeting some of you in person at shows like Rocky Mountain, CES, and Audio Karma.
Some companies are already using my products in their demo systems and more are being added every month.
BTW, only a SOME of my products use NOS wire...most use modern current production materials. |
Anything is possible (just not probable).
Yes, you could have some sort of a low resistance that MAY not trip the breaker and MAY heat up.
You could also get struck by lightning while being stung to death by bees and being hit by piece of space junk that fell off the Russian space station.
To confirm what was already stated: the specific NOS wire I use is MIL SPEC and has cloth covered rubber insulation.
This wire is SIGNIFICANTLY more abrasion and heat resistant than ANY "for domestic use" UL listed cord you could find.
It was ENGINEERED by Western Electric as POWER CORD for ULTIMATE durability and performance. It has been used in the most EXTREME of conditions, such as deserts, Arctic, and aerospace applications
I have some of this wire that's been in use for over 10 years and it shows NO SIGN of fatigue, cracking, or wear.
I have sold HUNDREDS of these cords and NOT ONE has failed in use to date.
They are HAND MADE in USA by either myself or one of my new employees. My employees are all students that are getting their degrees in electronics and I pay them $20/hour to start. No minimum wage slackers work for me (though I do live with 4 fairly lazy cats).
The cords go through SEVERAL inspections and tests along the way including a RESISTANCE TEST after they are assembled.
Personally, I would rather put my faith in a American with technical expertise that is earning a fair wage for their time than some uneducated 3rd world person that is cranking out UL listed products in some sweat shop for less than $10/day.
I would also be most fearful of ANY mass marketed "bargain priced" appliance that is UL listed. What that listing means is that is passed the MINIMUM requirements.
Most of what this UL listing stuff is about has more to do with product liability than with performance. If for some reason their is a product failure that leads to a law suit the company could state that they "did everything possible" and are therefore not negligent.
Let's settle this once and for all:
I challenge anyone to find some way to cause one of my power cords to burst into flame.
If anyone can find some way to make one of my power cords burst into flame while plugged into an outlet that is up to code with a proper circuit breaker I will give them $1,000.
Anybody up for the challenge? |
$10K flaming challenge.
OK...I've thought about it and have THREE offers for all of you.
Offer #1: If ANYONE can make one of my power cords burst into flame (that was "burst" not "light") through ANY kind of abuse I will give them $10K and formally apologize on Audiogon.
The rules are as follows:
The cord must be plugged into a normal home wall outlet that is "on code" with proper circuit breaker.
Any substance that would be found in a normal living room can be applied. This would mean alcoholic beverages are OK but gasoline, fulminate of mercury, sodium, or other laboratory chemicals are not OK.
You can crush it, smash it, grind it, drive nails through it, use a sander on it, piss on it, or even coat it with bacon grease to entice you neighbor's obnoxious dog to chew on it.
Proper safety gear is recommended and Mojo Audio is not responsible for any damages caused to any person or property in the process of this challenge.
Mojo Audio assumes only qualified persons with proper safety gear taking proper precautions will attempt this (legal disclaimer).
It is also recommended and acceptable that you plug my power cord into a UL listed extension cord and do all of these things outside of your home in some sort of fire proof area (fire pit, metal can, etc.).
You will QUICKLY get your circuit breaker to trip but BURST INTO FLAME? Not a chance.
BTW, I may also pay for home videos of people attempting this.
Anyone up for the challenge? |
100% Refund "No Risk" Offer.
My 2nd offer is that I will now offer not only a refund but refund shipping and pay for return ground shipping on any purchase of my 8AWG Cross-Helix power cords.
Yes, originally I offered 7-days.
Then I offered 30-days.
I am now offering 30-days + ground shipping to and from refunded.
You have NOTHING to loose to compare my power cords to your current reference.
FYI, every person that has tested my 8AWG Cross-Helix has replace or is in the process of replacing all the power cords in their system with them. Everyone.
Now for my 3rd offer...
This one is for Elizabeth only.
I will pay you an additional $100 to compare my 8AWG Cross-Helix to your current reference.
All you have to do is purchase the cord, compare it to what you are currently using, and if you don't decide to keep it I will pay you $100 above and beyond the price you paid and the cost of shipping.
I'm THAT confident that once you compare my 8AWG Cross-Helix to ANYTHING you may have that you would prefer to keep it rather than make $100 profit.
Please note that this offer of a refund can not be used along with the "flame challenge" and that all products must be returned in "like new" condition.
OK. I put my $$$ where my mouth (or keyboard) is...how about the rest of you? |
HAND MADE WITH PRIDE IN USA
That means something to me.
Too bad some people would rather purchase imported products with UL listing made in a sweat shop by uneducated 3rd world slaves.
Mojo Audio not only creates the finest quality in hand made audiophile products, we also create JOBS.
I've recently hired two people to work for me to keep up with the demand for my products.
Also, 100% of Mojo Audio products are made in USA.
Granted, some of our component parts are imported, but the design, assembly, and packaging are all done in the US.
Mojo Audio is also committed to ONLY making products in USA. No matter how great the demand is for our products in the future they will ALWAYS be made in USA. I will NEVER import ANYTHING that I can produce in this country.
Nothing gives me more pride than to ship my US made products to one of my many Asian customers.
Why have their been so many upgrades to Mojo Audio products over the past year? That is because we don't "hold out" like most companies so that they can launch new products at the next show.
Are products are HAND MADE in SMALL BATCHES so we are able to upgrade our materials and methods frequently.
We also don't have a product line at different "price points" just so we can market to different customers. We only make products that are the BEST VALUE on the market or we don't make them at all.
Have you wondered why we don't sell speaker wires or why it took YEARS before we sold interconnects and digital cables?
BTW, speaker wires will soon be available as will USB cables and filtered power distribution centers.
Made with pride in USA still means something to some of us. |
I don't need to defend my reputation but I feel the need to correct miss-information people like Simply Q post.
Let's start with electronics 101...
When you shorten the length of a wire or circuit (commonly known as a "short") you LOWER resistance.
If you were to connect a wire between the hot and neutral of a power outlet, simulating a "short" in a power cord, you would trip your circuit breaker. This is because there is no LOAD or RESISTANCE on the circuit and full current is flowing through the breaker.
Now that we've established that Simply Q knows NOTHING about how electronic circuits work, some of you may consider taking any other advice he may have.
As for upgrades to my products and profit motives...
Over the past year I've taken back product from both direct sale customers and distributors and either replaced it with newly upgraded versions or upgraded it for FREE.
This is part of why you see me selling products at a discount on eBay. They are either used, demos, or not quite as good as my current production and that is CLEARLY stated in my eBay listing.
I am CONSTANTLY testing new materials and connectors. Right now as I'm writing this I'm comparing a $150 set of Furutech RCA jacks to the ones I'm currently using.
Last week I switched over to a more durable (and more expensive) braided fabric covering and braided copper shielding.
As I become aware of a better quality or better sounding material or component I switch over to it.
Originally my sales volume was so low I was unable to purchase certain products because I couldn't meet the companies minimum quantity requirements.
These days I'm ordering CASES and custom production runs manufactured to my specifications.
You will soon be seeing products on my website made from these PROPRIETARY wires and components.
YES, my new ribbon wire power cords sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than the NOS ones. Then again, they better since I need to sell them for about 2X the price.
Bottom line: I'm an audiophile first and a businessperson second.
If you don't like my products then don't buy them. If you haven't heard my products then I suggest you don't make a fool out of yourself by commenting on them.
As of now Mojo Audio will be offering a "no risk" 100% money back guaranty. No restocking fees. Ground shipping both directions refunded.
I am also offering a 90 day 100% upgrade program. If you buy ANY product and want to upgrade it for a newer version or a more expensive product I will give you 100% of your original purchase price.
Once again, I put my $$$ where my mouth (or keyboard)is.
As for "pride"...
Anyone that's been reading this thread wouldn't doubt the pride I have in my products. They may doubt my sanity to make such generous refund/upgrade offers and $10K "burst into flame" challenges, but they don't doubt my pride.
I honestly suggest that some of you forum "bashers" move on to a thread where you can pick on someone or something that can't defend themselves. If you keep up with this thread you will only reveal yourself as the small minded, inexperienced, and ignorant loud mouths that you really are. |
Hello Al,
Thank you for your honest questions.
When you are looking at a brittle insulation inside of a component, it is the result of YEARS of heat. Often this is caused by internal components in an old radio, such as the tubes, and has nothing to do with the viability of the original wire.
I have seen MANY modern UL listed extension cords fall prey to the same "symptom" from years of the wire heating due to excessive current draw and modern internal wiring due to a similar chassis heat.
I can not speak for ANY wire aside from the wire I use.
It is QUITE supple, flexible, and in what I would consider "like new" condition.
I have some of this same wire that has been used in audio power cords for over 10 years that is still supple, flexible, and shows no signs of wear or aging.
I recommend that any person purchasing cords, cables, or raw wire only deal with a trusted professional so as to minimize the possibility of purchasing improperly stored, aged, or rotted NOS wire.
As for Simple Q, he may be knowlegable, but it was quite obvious he was looking for a fight if you read his comments in context.
Also, in the case of a power cord having a short, it is ONLY possible that it would create a lower resistance path.
It would create a zero load situation, at least for an instant, until either it blew the breaker or melted the shorting strand.
There is NO POSSIBLITY of a higher resistance situation.
|
Simple Q...obviously a fitting name.
Don't say I didn't warn you about showing your ignorance of electronics.
To start with you are mixing some truth with some falsehoods.
When you have a short the ONLY possibility is that you have LOWERED resistance. This is because you have now put a lower resistance path in parallel with the original load.
The reason it heats up is that being the "path of least resistance" all the current wants to flow through it rather than the proper path of higher resistance.
You create a situation where only part of the wire is conducting all of the current and it heats up much in the same way as the filament in a light bulb or the element in an oven.
A short will do one of two things: trip the breaker or spark and melt the strand of wire.
Unless there are HIGHLY flammable materials around this micro-spark it is not going to cause a fire.
When you have an open circuit that is a different situation. It creates a "spark gap" that causes heat as a spark of current jumps between the two near touching conductors.
It is not "higher resistance" at all. It is a SPARK GAP.
You are correct, that in this situation it will not trip a breaker and can cause a fire.
Higher resistance is what happens when you have too much current draw on wire or connector. This is common when light duty extension cords are used for heavy current items.
In this case, so long as the current draw is lower than that of the circuit breaker, the wire will heat and degrade the insulation causing a fire hazard.
A circuit breaker doesn't sense resistance, it senses amperage/current draw. In the case where you are plugging too many devices into one circuit it exceeds the amperage rating and trips the breaker. In a case where you have a short it creates a path of low/no resistance which in turn conducts too much current and trips the breaker.
Now for a more complex situation.
A power cord that has been crushed and the insulation is worn though causing an INTERMITTENT shorting.
In this case the wires are shorting and sparking.
If for some improbably reason it doesn't trip your breaker then you would obviously smell it.
Electrical fires often take place in VERY old components or buildings where heat or spark ignites dust. This is a situation where the electrical components are being used beyond their useful life.
UL listing can't help.
The other category of common electrical fires are USER ERROR where a person exceeds the maximum rating of a cord or connector or is using a damaged cord or connector.
UL listings can't help you here either.
As for pride in selling to Asian customers...
That is different from pride in my products. It is the pride of re-claiming what was lost.
At this time in history the US owes a significant percentage of our national debt to Asian countries.
There is NO DOUBT that this is going to end badly for our children and our children's children.
Signs of recession and financial imbalance are all around us and only getting worse.
If you can't understand my pride in selling US made products to the countries to whom we owe the most debt as a nation then your understanding of "balance of trade" and "international finance" are as limited as your knowledge of electronics. |
I think you are mixing terminology Simple Q.
Short = Contact = Zero Resistance
What you are likely referring to is called a SPARK GAP.
It is VERY common for old homes to have electrical fires caused by a combination of old/worn wiring combined with renovations that move the wires causing shorts and spark gaps.
Shorts blow fuses/breaker and spark gaps create carbon that can potentially result in high resistance, heat, and fire hazards.
It is also common when a novice upgrades vintage gear that they cause a similar fire hazard.
Lets make this simple. There are only TWO reasons for electrical fires. Products that are being used beyond their useful life and products that are being used beyond their rated specifications (user error).
In both cases UL listing don't help and neither of these cases apply to any of my products.
Simple Q is obviously not a customer of mine with a grievance.
He has neither heard nor touched any of my products.
What's the deal then Simple Q?
Why do you feel the need to twist my every word in an attempt to discredit me and my products?
What have I ever done to you?
Did I date your sister?
Is it past life karma?
Are you just bored or are you simply a mean person looking for a fight?
If I have done ANYTHING to offend you I sincerely apologize.
As for the rest of you on this thread I apologize that you had to bear witness to my less than professional behavior.
Most of my offers still stand:
Mojo Audio has changed its return policy to include full refund of ground shipping both to and from.
In addition to a 30-day 100% money back guaranty I will now offer a 90-day 100% trade up policy.
You'll see these changes in my next eBay listing and on my website in the near future.
As for my offer to Elizabeth to try my power cords, that still stands. If you don't prefer them over what you are currently using and decide to keep them I'll give you $100 over and above anything it cost you to audition them.
As for my $10K "burst into flames" challenge that was irresponsible of me.
I seriously doubt that any person that would attempt to collect on such a challenge is capable of doing it in a safe manner.
It would surely be "Jack Ass" with electronics.
Sorry to disappoint, but I take that back.
I've written more on this forum in the past 24 hours than my total forum writing over the past 24 years.
Sorry to say, I will no longer be commenting on forums.
Now I understand why some of my friends that manufacture high end audio product with more experience warned me about getting into it with people on forums.
If you feel the need to bash my products or my integrity as a businessperson, please feel free. You won't get a response out of me in the future.
If you feel the need to communicate with me vs. make a public display, please feel free to contact me via e-mail or call and I would be happy to attempt to answer any of your questions.
In any event, I do not recommend coating my or any other companies power cords with bacon grease in an attempt to lure your obnoxious neighbor's dog into chewing on them.
~ Benjamin
|
I surrender. I apologize. I give up. What do you want from me?
I'm not going to metaphorically drop my pants so we can slap them on the table and measure them.
Simply Q (sorry for the previous typo), I would be happy to go off forum and discuss resistance in malfunctioning circuits.
We can discuss capacitance, inductance, and even quantum physics if you like. I have no doubt that I may learn something from you, if nothing else, how I might communicate more effectively.
What I am not willing to do is make a public spectacle on a forum or to defend myself or my products anymore.
People mentioned my company name.
People gave links to my website and eBay listings.
People made comments about my taking advantage of naive customer by using the Western Electric name.
People brought up the potential of my products bursting into flame.
People brought my R&D process and business practices into question.
Most importantly, people got me to react in a manner that is unprofessional (OK...some of it was rather amusing and fun).
That's over.
Say what you want about me, my company, or my products.
Praise or criticize.
So long as you don't say anything bad about my Cat.
Well, I'm also rather sensitive about my weight an my bald spot. But my products, technical expertise, and business practices are fair game.
We won't hear back from me in a public forum.
Feel free to contact me one-on-one. |
Actually I live with 4 cats and 2 dogs...all rescues.
E-mail me and I'll be happy to share photos with you.
As for the "short debate" I believe we were talking apples and oranges and that is why we disagreed to some extent.
There is no comparison between the way 50 year old NOS wire(meaning NEW old stock as in "like new" vs. "not used")and 50 year old wire in an older home or vintage gear will react.
There is also QUITE a difference in potential dangers in worn house wiring, worn wiring in vintage gear, and power cords or extension cords (being new, NOS, or whatever).
Old house wiring and vintage gear wiring are hidden and often surrounded by flammable materials such as dust. They are also stationary and usually don't become dangerous unless they are moved.
Unless you re-wire an old house or vintage gear even the most brittle of insulation is still quite effective. It's when we bend and move wires that the brittle insulation becomes a short or spark gap situation.
OK...rodents have been known to chew on things and move things around but rodents are my cat's responsibility.
Extension cords and power cords are usually moved around and flexed. The act of doing this will usually move/crack the fatigued insulation and cause a short that would trip a breaker rather than heat the wire to the point of combustion.
Do a search on electrical fires and you will see that it is RARELY a cord that catches fire but a wall outlet that is filled with decades of dust that shorts out, heats up, and bursts into flame.
Once again, these things have nothing to do with products I sell or NOS wire in general. They have to do with worn out insulation or using a wire or connector beyond its rating.
I can show you wire that's less than 5 years old and UL listed that has cracked and potentially dangerous insulation as well as 50 year old wire that has been inside of a component and is in near new condition.
I think we all got a bit off track with this thread.
Is NOS wire good?
Some is and some isn't depending on the wire and the end use.
Is NOS wire safe?
Once again, it depends on the condition of the specific wire and the end use.
Is UL listing important?
Mostly to insurance companies.
UL standards do not mean a product is safe but only that it meets certain criteria that would make it suitable for use in SPECIFIC situations.
New and modern UL listed wires and connectors are every bit as potentially hazardous as NOS or vintage wires if they are not used as they are intended.
Going back to my original point in my first posting: if you don't know what you are doing you shouldn't mess with electrical components or devices.
This means new, NOS, UL listed, blessed by the Dhali Lama, or approve by Ms. Cleo the psychic. |
Cloth insulated WE wire was for low voltage signal, not for AC (as you probably know).
IMHO it also doesn't sound as good with wide bandwidth signal since it was optimized for mid/voice transmission.
The WE speaker wire is about the same. I used it for years with full range speakers but it too is not wide bandwidth and tends to sound a bit cloudy with a rolled off top end.
It can be a good cure for "digititus."
Please keep in mind that I'm speaking in ABSOLUTE terms and that both the silk/enamel covered signal wire as hook up/IC wire and the speaker wire are exceptional values if you get the right "vintage" at the right price.
Much of their popularity was originally based on them being SO inexpensive and music being narrower bandwidth than it is today.
At their current pricing there are much better options IMHO.
Now you know why my company only sells NOS wire power cords and not other products made from NOS wire. I can buy modern wire that sounds better for the same or less $$$ and I can buy all I want rather than hunting around the world for scraps.
Soon enough we'll no longer be making NOS wire power cords since I can barely find 30' of the specific wire I've been using and people that have it for sale want too much for it. I have a good inventory of AC wire but at the rate I'm selling power cords it won't last for too many years.
There are SO many variations of these NOS wires...plated with this or that....shielded with this or that...wax or enamel coated...etc, etc, etc.
I don't recommend people thinking they can simply buy something off of eBay and they are good to go. Most of the wire I've seen for sale on eBay is not the "right" vintage.
Much like with tubes, people hear about "chrome tops" or "black plates" or "halo getter" or whatever and they think they are getting the famous vintage they've read so much about and they are not.
As they say: "Let the buyer beware."
That being said, if anyone wants a "grab bag" of different gauges and types of WE solid core hook up wire I would be happy to sell it to them very cheaply. These were the wires I used for R&D but ended up going with modern wires instead.
For $50 I'll gladly give anyone that wants it a bag of coils of different "vintages" of WE solid core wires that would sell on eBay for 5X that price. You'll be saving me the trouble of listing them individually. |
I know only the basics of WE wire manufacture.
High purity copper was DRAWN from a copper rod which results in very long crystal lengths.
The strands were dipped in a molten plating bath. The plating alloy was proprietary and a trade secret. Sort of like the Colonel's herbs and spices (I believe some of the ingredients are a bit different).
There is something about the plating that makes it both non-oxidizing yet conducts almost identical to copper.
The act of dipping in a molten plating bath annealed the copper. Annealing relaxes the crystalline tensions within the copper.
The strands of plated copper were twisted into different gauge bundles.
The bundles were coated with a proprietary polymer insulation. Just because you know the polymer don't believe you know the insulation. An example of this is Polyurethane. The same polymer that is used to protect furniture is used to make Spandex. Hard and clear vs. elastic and white. Both polyurethane.
For added flame retardance and abrasion resistance a cloth cover was put over the polymer insulation.
The result is the best sounding AC wire I have heard short of the custom copper ribbon wire I'm using in my new top-of-the-line power cord.
I've tried EVERY pure copper and plated copper wire I could get my hands on over the past 10+ years and have not found a better sounding copper wire for AC conduction.
Personally I compared it to power cords by companies like Sunyata, Nordost, Kimber, Straight Wire, Transparent, etc. that sold for over $1K. A simple power cord made from this wire and Wattgate basic copper connectors beat all of them by a huge margin.
When I began selling basic power cords on eBay for $100 I knew they would sound better than anything for under $1K.
I had no idea that audiophiles with $30K+ systems would be buying them to put up against $2K5+ power cords.
All my profits went into R&D. We learned that modest Chinese made pure copper plug sets sounded better than not only the Wattage we were using but the most expensive of Furutech, Oyaide, and Kimber plugs.
BTW, I am an OEM Furutech distributor.
We also learned that certain gauges of wire as well as shielding and twisting schema sounded better.
When I say "we" I refer to about half a dozen beta testers with high end systems that sold their $2K-$3K power cords and replaced them with my NOS cords.
I was disabled in 2006 as the result of a car accident. My small power cord business was supposed to be a hobby. A year later I just hired two employees to keep up with the overwhelming demand.
In my formal career I was a product development engineer, a technical consultant, and owned my own computerized embroidery company. Over the years I specialized in computer numerically controlled robotic machinery.
My hobby for over 30 years was DIY audio. I love acoustic music. I found that most "audiophile" products are "pumped up" and distort the music's flow along with the organic tones and timbers. I got into making my own cords and cables because that was the only way I could hear the music I loved.
Apparently there are many others of you out there that feel the same way about the time, tune, organic timbers, and musical flow being more important than EQ, imaging, or the other "attractive distortions" that most audiophile cable/cord companies are selling.
I would just like to close by saying I am no genius and I do nothing original. Apparently I have a good ear and I've simply combined existing technology and components that other companies manufactured to make a more musical product.
The geniuses at WE made this AC wire decades ago as well as developed most of the circuits that audio manufacturers are using to this day. We are all "standing on the shoulders of giants" as they say.
The only real advancements since then were in digital and microchips. Basic electronics hasn't changed all that much.
By all means, if you enjoy DIY, experiment like I did. You will certainly have fun and save $$$.
On the other hand if you want to benefit from my 30+ years of experience then purchase my products. You will certainly save a lot of time and $$$ as well as space in your basement where you keep your "failed experiments."
One last word of caution about NOS wire. Don't fall for the more modern A.I.W. version of the Western Electric AC and speaker wire. This is NOT the stuff that I am using. Now that the word is out, people are pulling this stuff out of the back of their warehouse and selling it all over eBay for 5X what it sold for only a few years ago.
I'm not saying this is a bad sounding AC wire, only that the REAL stuff sells for MUCH more and I haven't found more than 30' of it on eBay in a given month. The guys that have it know what it is and they sell it for much more than $1-$2 per foot like the A.I.W. wire.
Good luck with your DIY projects!
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The wire was used for telephone voice transmission.
I can only GUESS that is was optimized since it has AMAZING resolution in this area and not so good response at the extremes.
Magnets have no effect?
Tell that to the companies that are using them and the 10's of thousands of people that purchased these products.
Tell that to recording studios that purchased magnet based AC filter and grounding devices that sell for over $100K.
Then again, you may want to mail me some Q-tips since my personal testing has shown that properly implemented magnets reduce background noise SIGNIFICANTLY and in a MUCH different way than ferrite.
You could also tell the DOZENS of customers that sold their expensive digital cables and replaced them with my magnetic digital cables that they wasted their $$$ (good luck with that one).
Then again, maybe magnets cause auditory hallucinations that make all of us THINK they sound better?
I don't claim to know the WHY...once again, I'm "standing on the shoulders of giants."
I do know what I hear, I do know what my limited testing equipment reads, and I do know what my customers tell me. |
I won't tell you who sells magnet based AC filters and grounding devices out of respect for the owner of the company who is a friend of mine.
He doesn't engage in forums and he warned me about the same.
Apparently he told me that there are some people on forums that seem to know nearly everything about everything and make it their mission in life to explain away anything they don't understand whether or not they've personally tested it or not.
I don't know WHY many things work.
I do know that when I do my R&D testing I am as objective as possible and try to make IDENTICAL components with only ONE difference between them.
Once I come up with what I consider to be an improvement I then send it to my blind testers for comparison (they are "blind" not "deaf").
I then collect the sum of the responses and attempt to draw conclusions.
Some good examples of surprising conclusions of the past year had to do with wire gauges for certain applications and the use of ferrite cores on AC power.
After EXTENSIVE testing the consensus (that makes NO logical sense) was that my 8AWG power cords sounded better on EVERYTHING...even low current draw gear like DACs and phono stages.
Silly me...I originally was telling people to follow the LOGICAL and RECOMMENDED path and to use my 14AWG power cords on low current gear (CD, DAC, phono), the 10AWG on higher current draw gear (like amps), and the 8AWG only on very high current draw gear like power conditioners and high power amps.
I was VERY wrong and this was pointed out to me by my beta testers.
I also started making a digital power cord with a ferrite core. Once again, this is what is ACCEPTED as correct with good LOGICAL support.
In the end we discovered that only CERTAIN digital gear sounded better with ferrite cores and that MOST digital gear sounded better with my Cross-Helix and no ferrite.
Now I offer clip on ferrite cores to allow my customers to decide for themselves if the ferrite makes an improvement in their system.
Silly me...wrong again.
Lucky for me I have beta testers with minds and ears of their own to straighten me out when I THINK I know what I'm doing but obviously don't.
Wait a minute...isn't the basis for the scientific process...you start with a theory and then test it?
Possibly that's how it was eventually determined that the world wasn't flat, that the Earth revolves around the sun, that the moon isn't made of green cheese, that man could fly, and that Coke Classic tasted better than New Coke.
Once again, I don't claim to be a genius.
I don't claim to have any original idea...I study the "classics"...I study "new concepts"...learn new things from just about everyone.
I'm just a guy with limited technical expertise and a pretty good pair of ears.
I also have a diverse group of beta testers with diverse types of audio gear that they set up in very different rooms and use to listen to very different types of music.
I first listen to my prototypes and then I listen to my beta testers.
Seems to be working for me so far. |
Tired of dancing. Let me END on this little bit to satisfy all the other readers (since it is obvious I could never satisfy you).
"Work" for me means that I hear better time, tune, and musical flow. This seems to be usually be accompanied with higher resolution, better layers, better spacial cues, etc.
Quite often the wire or component that I want to "work" is not the one that does. A perfect example of this would be Furutech connectors. I love the way they are built. The name is well known and respected.
The ONLY problem is that our "subjective" listening tests showed that the pure copper plug sets I'm now using that cost roughly 1/3 as much as the FI-11Cu sound (work) considerably better (as defined above).
All of us wanted the Furutech to win. I sent people 3 identical power cords made from wire that came from the same spool. One with basic brass Wattgate (my original standard), one with Furutech FI-11Cu (Furutech's most popular plugs), and one with a humble Chinese made pure "red copper" plug set.
100% of the beta testers preferred the humble Chinese pure copper plugs. Not some. Not most. All.
Another statistical FACT. In the past 12 months I got only 3 power cords returned on my 30-day guaranty for refund. All three had the same Furutech plug sets.
A similar test was done with the 8AWG wire. Granted, this wire didn't come off of the same spool as the other wires it was compared to. On the other hand, I continually go through spools with slightly different vintages so I have that statistical factor.
Originally I would send people a 14AWG and a 10AWG cord to let them both decide if they liked my power cords over their current reference and to decide which of the two they wanted on which of their gear. At that time I "hypothesized" That some pre amps may sound better with one vs. the other and that all low current draw components would sound better with 10AWG.
I found that when a person purchased a 14AWG by itself they kept it but when a person compared a 14AWG to a 10AWG they would either return the 14AWG in exchange for a 10AWG or order only more 10AWG.
A similar thing happened with the 8AWG. One of my customers (against my advice) ordered a pair of 8AWG for their amps. One of my distributors did the same thing. I thought they were "over-compensating" but as they say, "the customer is always right."
Soon that same distributor ordered more and more of the 8AWG cords and told me he preferred them in his entire demo system. He only sold the 10AWG to customers on a budget.
At this point I did a similar test with 10AWG vs. 8AWG for myself...this guy was right...they do sound more open, detailed, and effortless than the 10AWG even on a CD player or phono stage.
I then did a beta test and 100% of the testers had the same results...the 8AWG was preferred.
People didn't WANT to spend more for the 8AWG. The 8AWG is HUGE and less flexible. The whole thing makes no sense.
Another statistic: since I switched to the pure copper plug sets I haven't got ONE power cord returned for refund (and I've sold 10X as many cords or more).
Another statistic: when I now send customers a 10AWG and an 8AWG to compare I only get the 10AWG returned for exchange.
Another statistic: since I've been recommending my 8AWG Cross-Helix as my best sounding power cord for ANY situation I have had DOZENS of high end customers with $30K+ systems and about a dozen with $100K+ systems that ALL replaced their "whose who" $2K5+ power cords with Stereophile class A ratings and full page adds in magazines with my humble 8AWG.
Another definition of "work" is my level of customer satisfaction. My sales have gone up 4X what they were around Xmas. My returns for refund or replacement have been ZERO since I started recommending the 8AWG as #1 and took the 14AWG from my recommended products list.
I started this business as a HOBBY and had NO IDEA I would do 10% as many sales as I have. I simply know what sound I preferred and made products that pleased my "subjective" testing.
Apparently there are a good number of audiophiles that agree with my "subjective" testing and my criteria that time, tune, musical flow, and organic timbers are most important and other "audiophile" attributes such as "extension, image, depth, and dynamics" are less important.
One last thing...
What is it that YOU do?
How much have YOU sold of original products internationally?
What is the rate of growth of YOUR sales?
As for my friend that arguably makes the finest AC power conditioners and grounding systems in the world. You remember...the one you say is "hiding in the shadows."
Everyone told him a $35K power conditioner was a STUPID idea and would never sell. Everyone told him a $12K grounding system was STUPID and would never sell.
FYI: a $100K system uses more than one of each of these for use in a large building that holds a recording studio.
Lucky he didn't listen to EVERYONE. He now has distributors all over the planet and is quite popular with the "over $250K system" crowd. He has offers by many of the "whose who" to put his power conditioners in their rooms at CES, Rocky Mountain, and other well known audiophile trade shows.
Is he hiding in the shadows?
NO.
He has just learned that it is a WASTE OF TIME to debate things on a forum with a know-it-all like you. He no longer justifies your claims with an answer because he rolls with the "whose who" crowd and has NOTHING to prove.
As for me, I'll leave you with TWO thoughts:
There is a distinctive difference between a person with 30 years experience and one year's experience repeated 30X.
Also...
The difference between knowledge and wisdom is knowledge is TAUGHT and wisdom is EARNED through EXPERIENCE.
I continue to TEST new "theories" and then to confirm my findings with my beta testers and my customer base.
What new ideas or concepts have YOU tested recently?
I wish I could say this has been a pleasure, but it's been more like giving my cat a flea bath.
I'll be interested in seeing your answers to my questions (if you dare) but I won't be responding again.
I only continued with this thread for the benefit of OTHERS and not you.
From now on, I hope to take my more experienced friend's advice and stay off forums.
All the best to everyone.
Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions or comments about my products.
Much of what I know I learned from my customers.
Benjamin
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I use a Xentec .001pf isolation transformer modified with my power cord, Maestro audiophile plugs, and anti-resonance treatment.
I have GREAT results and have heard no better in my own home.
I don't use what I use because it's "the best" but only because it's the best I can afford.
I only listen to people's opinions on such things that have used the two products side-by-side over extended periods of time in the same system.
Better yet, done that on multiple systems.
"Great results" is as subjective as you can get. Did ANY of these people compare their "reference" to a Topaz or Xentec .005 or .0001 isolation TX let alone to some of the other more expensive alternatives?
My guess is "NO" so why should I accept their opinion?
On the other hand, I do know of SEVERAL people that have made similar comparisons. People with electronics engineering and other technical degrees that make their primary living working in electronics, recording, or laboratories.
Some of these people (that could afford anything) purchased the Tripoint solution and some purchased laboratory grade iso TXs.
Personally I've compared the Xentec and Topaz .005 to some pretty impressive "hospital grade" iso TXs as well as some pretty expensive and well known audiophile products.
None of them hold a candle to my Xentec let alone to the better 5KVA .0001pf version.
Then again, Xentec and Topaz iso TXs have a VERIFIED rating of something like -136db of noise reduction and are used in laboratories and high end aerospace applications.
That's not a "subjective" review by an audiophile. That's a verifiable technical FACT.
The Tripoint products offer SIGNIFICANT advantages over my Xentec iso TX. The ONLY reason I don't own one is that I can't afford one (yet).
I noticed that you didn't answer my questions.
Who's hiding in the shadows now? |
My dick is a fairly average: 6" long when erect.
The problem is that you once again asked the WRONG question.
A more pertinent question might be how many lovers have I had, how long did these relationships last, how often did I have sex, and so on.
You see, I don't find the size of my dick so important but what I've been able to do with my dick.
Interestingly enough, that is a direct comparison to my original questions that you avoided.
It is not MY opinion of MY accomplishments (or my dick) that matters, but rather the opinions of others that allow me to verify if I have truly accomplished anything or if I'm just a "legend in my own mind" as they say.
Some examples of what I've done in my career (without the use of my dick):
I had my own computerized embroidery business for over a decade. My customer base read like the "whose who" with customers like Lexus, Toyota, Intel, Chase Bank, United Way, Big Brother's and Sisters, and Lucent Technologies.
These companies could have gone to ANYONE but the went to me.
Before that I was a consultant for about a decade in soft good manufacture and had consulting contracts all over the country as well as Jamaica, Mexico, and Canada. I worked for companies with NFL, NBA, and NHL products licensing.
Before that I was a product development engineer for a famous international footwear company (that I am discrete enough not to name) that had over $20M in sales.
My current Audiophile products company is growing so fast that I can hardly keep up with current sales even with hiring two new employees this past month.
I'm not bragging. I'm trying to make a point. There are HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of people over the years (not to mention lovers) that could have gone with other people or other company's products but have chosen ME.
This means something.
All I know about you is that you own a computer and you think you know everything about everything and you spend your time criticizing others rather than accomplishing things yourself.
There's an old expression: those that can, do. Those that can't, criticize.
What the $%#! have YOU ever done?
How many HUNDREDS of people have confirmed by choosing to spend their hard earned $$$ with you that the products or services you provide are the best value on the market?
BTW, coming from product development and having been a business owner I can understand WHY a company wouldn't put too much information on their website. It is because they don't want their competition to steal their ideas.
Having "patents pending" for the longest period of time possible is a PROVEN business strategy. When you get a patent you have to EXPLAIN HOW YOU DID IT. This allows your competition to attempt to circumvent your patent and steal your ideas. Also, once you have a patent, it is only for so many years so you want to delay the clock as much as possible so that you can enjoy exclusivity as long as possible.
Then again, this is a "big boy" business strategy that you probably wouldn't understand since I sincerely doubt that you have a business of any size yourself or you would have answered my original questions and you would have KNOWN the significance of those answers.
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Now you've established some credibility.
What is the name of your current company and what is the link to your website?
You claim to know a great deal about a great deal.
You claim to know things that others don't.
You claim that much of what other successful companies are doing or saying is not valid.
Obviously these companies must be doing something right or they wouldn't be in business.
Obviously I must be doing something right or I wouldn't be taking customers away from such prestigious companies as I have been.
Maybe you can explain to me why everyone prefers my 8AWG power cords over my other ones (and anything else they've heard).
So far every tech I've spoken to tells me there is no reason they should sound better and that wire of a certain AWG is good for a certain amperage and all that.
I don't feel any need to explain.
I simply enjoy them and sell them to anyone else that wants to enjoy them. |
Simply Q, you are "hiding in the shadows."
You give either hit and run or avoidance answers to specific questions.
My guess is that I'm not the only person on this thread that would like to know the name of your company and have the address of your company's website.
What are you hiding from?
We didn't ask for advertisements or a copy of your last year's income tax statement.
As for listing all the forums you've been a part of for so many years, all that means is you've had access to a computer for that many years and have potentially been criticizing some and misleading others for that long.
Not what I would call something to put on a resume.
FYI, I don't go on forums to promote my company. As a matter of fact I RARELY go on forums at all.
On this thread people gave my company's name, my eBay listing, and my website address and made accusations about my power cords bursting into flames.
I wouldn't even have noticed it if it wasn't for SEVERAL of my loyal customers sending me e-mails with a link to this thread.
Then you attacked me over several things that I wrote and we were off and running.
How about answering a some SPECIFIC questions:
Have you ever heard any of (my) Mojo Audio's products?
Have you ever heard any of Tripoint's products?
Have you ever heard a .005pf isolation transformer such as the Topaz and Xentec that we have been discussing?
What magnet based technology audiophile products have you heard?
What is the criteria you use to evaluate the products you sell? (For this I would expect a long answer)
Do you believe that what you read on technical analytical gear (like an oscilloscope or distortion analyzer) tells the whole story of how gear sounds?
If you include the name of your company and your website address that would make 7 simple questions.
Inquiring minds want to know.
BTW, Mitzar was referring to a specification from the website of Topaz where THEY state a -136db noise reduction.
I don't know exactly what this means but any REASONABLE person would assume that it OVERLAPS not ADDS TO the noise of the system which makes it totally valid. |
BTW, the actual DEFINITION of "worth the money" would be if people are willing to pay for something.
To me a diamond is just a pretty piece of compressed carbon and worth relatively little.
Obviously I'm a minority when it comes to the value of a diamond.
I've heard people talk about how this or that product are not "worth the $$$" such as Mac computers or Mercedes Benz cars.
Then again, I don't hear that from the people that can afford to buy them only from the people that can't.
It is a VERY different story when I hear a person who has OWNED a Mercedes or a Porsche and has the means to purchase another one tell me they prefer the Toyota they now drive then a person that sits back and judges value on things that are out of their price range.
As an audiophile we all know how much more it costs for relatively subtle improvements in sound quality.
The only fair way to judge if a company's products are "worth the $$$" would be to see if they stay in business or not. |
Simply Q: still avoiding me and my RELEVANT questions.
To start with, you have ALL my contact information. If you wanted to send me information about your company in private you had every opportunity.
Should I send you an ENGRAVED INVITATION?
As for what products you have PERSONALLY listened to, that is RELEVANT because it confirms that you are commenting on products and theories (like magnets) that you have experience with or that you are a know-it-all and are talking out your @#$.
Have I been marketing OR offering 3rd party independent confirmation to refute unsubstantiated accusations?
It was stated that NOS wire is a fire hazard.
Then YOU accused me of profiteering by frequently upgrading my product over short periods of time.
Then YOU accused me of not clearly stating my return or upgrade policies.
Funny how MOST of the so called "advertising" I did was in response to YOUR accusations.
Funny how MOST people I know like to get 3rd party independent confirmation on a company's products but YOU consider this to be UNIMPORTANT.
I have a THEORY...
You resent other businesspersons success because you believe with all of your experience and with the amazing values in audiophile products you produce you should be getting "a larger piece of the pie."
Also...
You REFUSE to tell the people on this thread who you are and what your company is for fear that it would give them ammunition to accuse you of things much as you have been doing to other RESPECTED companies and businesspersons.
You may consider that the issue with your resentments toward successful companies stems from the fact that your attitude may be chasing customers away.
Seriously. |
Simply Q consistently insults audiophiles in REPEATEDLY stating that a SIGNIFICANT percentage of audiophiles can't hear if one product sounds better than another.
Simply Q consistently insults respected companies by stating that their products are not good and have no basis in technical reasoning.
Simply Q consistently accuses respected companies of being vague or putting technically incorrect information on their websites.
Simply Q consistently accuses others of "hiding in the shadows" or "vagueness" yet he refuses to respond to ANY question I (or others) have asked that he can not twist around to his advantage.
At the same time he won't give us the link to his website or even confirm if he has actually HEARD any of these products that he's degrading.
Oddly enough, my entire marketing is based on the fact that I believe that if a person actually can compare two products side-by-side that they will EASILY be able to decide for themselves what sounds better.
I must compliment Simply Q in that he is a MASTER at goading people on forums to react while avoiding responding to anything that may put him at a disadvantage.
It is obvious that Simply Q has spent DECADES on these forums and that I have not.
On that note, I will sign off.
I should have listened and not even attempted to respond to Simply Q's obviously maliciously intended postings.
Hopefully Simply Q will send me the link to his website on my private e-mail as I requested. |
Notice I said "people" and not "everyone."
There are several PEOPLE that have been posting on and reading this thread that have contacted me on my PRIVATE e-mail who, like me, want to know who Simply Q is and get the link to his company's website.
I can only assume that you are a friend of Simply Q's and that you must be on the "short list" of audiophiles that have the ability to discern if something sounds better or not.
Many other audiophiles that have read this thread (notice I didn't say "all") find him to be INSULTING and ARROGANT.
I would gladly forward some of these e-mails to you if you want to CONFIRM that I'm telling the truth. |
Has ANYONE seen me post on a forum before?
Has ANYONE seen me promote my company or products on a forum before?
The answer is NO.
The ONLY reason I felt the need to post ANYTHING at first was that my company and my products were identified by name and with links and comments were made about them being FIRE HAZARDS.
Later I found Simply Q insulting one company after another as well as audiophiles in general and I naively respond.
In hindsight I should have let it go.
If I'm such a "huckster" than why is it that you have NEVER seen ONE SINGLE posting by me in the past?
I wasn't "promoting" myself I was "defending" myself.
Granted I may have done it poorly and gone overboard.
I leave all of you with this one thought:
Over the next year or so please look for any postings I may make (I doubt you'll see any).
At the same time check out how many posting you see from Simply Q that insult other companies or audiophiles in general (I'm sure you'll see many).
I sincerely apologize to anyone aside from Simply Q that I may have offended. |
Thank you Csmogolf. I also wish this thread could be deleted.
I don't need "free advertising" and I am somewhat ashamed that I was unable to resist responding to Simply Q's postings.
He finally did send me a link to his website and I have to say that I think his cables look QUITE nice.
I've worked with similar cotton covered Litz wire that I got from NOS Western Electric switchboard "patch" cords.
Those cables sounded VERY good and though I've never heard them, I'm quite sure Simply Qs cables sound good as well. |
