Many of you own or have read of the highly-regarded PPT Omega E Mat, one of Tim Mrock’s revolutionary signal-enhancing accessories. Just prior to his untimely passing, Tim had finished developing a new generation of his Omega mat, soon to be available. Krissy Mrock has asked a few of us to introduce this new mat, here given the working title of The Double Omega.
In distinguishing the Double Omega, we know the original Omega, herein called the single, as a 7.5” by 10”, rather heavy and somewhat pliable mat, a bit more than 1/8” thick and with a vinyl-like feel. One face is glossy white, displaying the PPT logo and Omega name, while the other is black, smooth and magnetized. Sandwiched between these faces is the active material that causes components to reject the EMI that saturates everything in our surroundings. The Double Omega is much the same, with one important difference: the magnetized face has the finely-textured feel of around, say, 220-grit sandpaper. This texture, it is presumed, comprises yet a second active layer of EMI rejection. Presumed—because working details of the Double Omega are not well understood—better yet to know how to apply it.
With the understanding that the single Omega E mats generate field effects from both faces, mats have typically been placed under and over components and vertically over circuit breakers. How you apply the Double Omega will depend on best use and experimentation. In my case, I have removed two single mats, lying side-by-side, from the top of my large Wadia CDP and have replaced those with two Double Omegas. The Wadia is a one-box player that contains a pre-amp, so I wanted that second, strong field effect exerting downward as well as upward. I also have several singles placed underneath, just as before. Going straight to amps, this player is my only source, so I want it fully protected from EMI. Your priorities will differ.
As of this writing, I am only thirty-hours in on placing these Double Omegas, and I can already tell you they are powerful in their prevention of EMI within my digital source. Yet another veil has been lifted—all instruments and voices are even more sorted out in the aural space with new information heard within that space. There is much more decay heard against a new silence behind and between the musicians. I am already so pleased and excited about what the Double Omega E mats are doing. As Krissy told me, Tim was really stoked to have these new mats available. Rather than wait for the the fourteen-day window of improvement, I want to get this intro out so others can relay their experiences sooner.
atdavid, I have already clarified that I mistakenly called it shielding when I did in fact purchase absorbing mats. And I said shielding twice because I direct quoted from my mistake. That is my mistake. I used the wrong word. If you insist on not believing me, I cannot help that. I reiterate, I have experience with 3M emi absorbing sheets both inside and outside my gear, as well as the Omega + mat. The emi absorbing sheets made no appreciable difference. The Omega + mat certainly did. Personal experience. Fact. Not conjecture. Debating you is like riding a train with square wheels. You have never seen an Omega + mat. You have never used one. You have never heard what one can do. You have never experienced it's effects. Yet you continue to disparage. You continue to play the expert. Coming from a position of complete and utter ignorance of the product you continue on. I am on this thread to offer my real world experience with the Omega + mat, no longer to have a snarkfest with someone who has none. This is not what I want to be about. Why are you here? Straight up, everyone would like to know- Why are you here?
atdavid No one is asking them to divulge the secret sauce on how they are made, but not providing any details about even what they do seems very odd to me. That is especially odd given that very long "burn-in" time. Even GK was skeptical about that claim, even though I am sure he will claim otherwise.
>>>>No, actually I wasn’t skeptical about the burn in time. That’s not what I said at all. This is just another case of your memory failing or just plain lying. It’s very bizarre that your memory is completely wrong so often or that you misconstrue what I said. Is it true that when you lie your pants really are on fire?
uberwaltz, the welcome mat has never been out for anyone that doesn't blindly drink the cool-aid so your post is disingenuous. If you think there is harm in trying to have an intelligent discussion about how something works, then really I am not sure what to say. Most people don't buy things blindly on faith, and absent any knowledge of workings, are apt to not use properly.
theaudiotweaks plan to put these on top of an outdoor transformer, to me, seems misguided. However, if you believe in these products, perhaps cutting them in half, or even in 1/4 width strips and taping them around your incoming AC would have a far superior benefit.
No one is asking them to divulge the secret sauce on how they are made, but not providing any details about even what they do seems very odd to me. That is especially odd given that very long "burn-in" time. Even GK was skeptical about that claim, even though I am sure he will claim otherwise.
You can catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.
I am sorry, but I did not read your whole post. Too many caps to consider it valuable.
I am not surprised that workings of products mentioned along this thread are secret. I would not disclose them, either. Mostly because I would not know how they work. Just like about everyone else in the world, it seems.
I have a very good news for oregonpapa and you. Santa Claus is coming soon. If you write him a letter today, and improve your behavior, he may bring you a few mats for Christmas.
If not Omega Mat, then Alpha Mat. Works wonders on greens. Check it out, you may become a convert. It is real and it does disclose some mode of action.
Until then, be nice, understand that it is not that unusual to expect an answer in the place where questions are allowed, and a few more things that would be too much of a challenge for you at this moment.
Frank the transformer is probably 9 cubic feet. Probably just put 4 on the top. Working on a method for the meter enclosure to place a mat or cards on or around its case. The enclosure is ferrous so thats good. Will Gorilla Tape to secure more and disguise. Let you know the outcome. Tom
Glupson. You really are getting dafter by the post.
NOBODY is stopping ANYBODY from asking how it works at all. Just you seem to expect an answer and when it’s not forthcoming then it goes pear shaped. For the last time....
PPT ARE NOT RPT NOT GOING TO DIVULGE TO ANYONE HOW ANY OF THEIR PRODUCTS WORK.
And I respect that and instead of whining like a little baby about it I just sit down and let the music do the talking.
So why on Earth would you keep repeating the same old garbage??
I understand you cannot comprehend members praise for their products .
BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT TRY ANY! Now.... Why are you still posting the same old bilge? Lonely? Bored? Troll? Troublemaker?
I really do not know the answer but you are wearing out the welcome wagon rapidly.
How about starting your own thread? This one is about the Omega + Mats. Thanks
How about discussing Omega Mat+ instead of singing suspicious praises without allowing others to ask or learn what is making it work in the first place? How about actually making some sense instead of building a cult?
Also, do not forget that this thread was started as an advertisement.
So to change the subject back to the Omega Mats + and the fact that they work for me in so many places I plan on buying more and attaching them to the sources on the outside of my house. The meter is attached to an outside wall on the flip side of my breaker box which is only a few feet from my main audio wall with its 3 dedicated feeds.. 18 months ago I coated the electric meter box with TC and it made for a very nice improvement...very interesting to me was that I could listen to it cure as the system played over days. Outdoors on a metal box go figure.
So now I want to attach a Mat+ to this same box and 4 more Mat+s to the ground mounted transformer that is 30 feet from my meter.. Merry Christmas ..Tom
Obviously atdavid is in need of a check up from the neck up. I’ve already opined what I think the mat is. I never said I thought the mat was mu metal. Poor reading comprehension on atdavid’s part. Or just a lie. It wouldn’t be his first lie. It was actually atdavid who went off on a wild goose chase with his mu metal baloney. I tend to think he’s probably just some high school graduate, at best, who learned how to cut and paste from Wikipedia.
We are talking about the Omega mats. GK got off on a tangent about it being mumetal, which highly unlikely that it is.
See GK, that time you came back with an ad-hom in a little over 15 minutes. That’s the spirit. It’s almost believable when you do that. Great show old chap!
OregonPapa, putting my engineering hat on, as GK did for a few seconds, while I don’t see much value in the Omega mat as used, products with likely the same function, i.e. EMI absorption, or absorption with a reflection layer do have value inside equipment. They are regularly used for this. They are used to reduce the emissions from microprocessors into sensitive equipment as GK stated. They usually are not used for shielding sensitive analog as custom metal shields are used for that. They are placed around ribbon cables carrying high speed signals to be reduce EMI both inside and outside the enclosure. They are used over specific traces on PCBs to reduce EMI in the same way. They are used with RF receivers to control reflections and reduce background noise.
Mumetal like steel and other magnetic materials must be used very carefully near transformers. While it has shielding properties, it also becomes part of the magnetic circuit of those components, plus magnetic EMI components. For something like a power transformer, that could be beneficial. For an output transformer that is carefully designed, that is bad.
Uberwalz, given you don’t know how Omega mats work, and don’t seem to have any interest in finding out, what exactly are you planning to discuss? One post of I tried it and it works seems to be enough? If you knew how they work, then you would have a much better chance of applying them to their maximum effectiveness instead of just guessing.
I apologize for GK’s lack of self reflection. One would think his 18,500+ posts, many irrelevant to the conversation would give him pause that he is attracted to other posters, not the other way around. Nothing I can do about that unfortunately.
How about starting your own thread? This one is about the Omega + Mats. Thanks ...
Pretty sure this has now devolved into "who has the biggest d#$k" To reinforce Frank’s post.
This thread is for discussion of the Omega Plus mats.
NOT The Gate. NOT mu metals. NOT EMI/RFI shield or absorbing sheets. NOT brow beating and chest thumping. NOT empty convuluted posts containing no substance or relevance to Omega Plus mats at all.
Yes this is a free forum but can we please get back on topic. Thanks.
These guys latch onto me like some kind of wolverine from the Skeptics Society or the subcommittee on controversial audiophile concepts of AES. What did I ever do to them? I’m just trying to raise global consciousness. Is that a crime?
Oh look, it is GK, maintaining irrelevance one post at a time. Gee GK, this deflection is even really weak for you!
I have shown you to be wrong in the past. I have shown you to be wrong now. I will show you to be wrong in the future. You will show yourself to be irrelevant. I do really appreciate the laugh in the middle of the day, thank you for that.
You know if you are going to come back with a really weak deflection you should do it quickly, and not take almost and hour. When you take that long, someone could assume you were working really hard to come up with an argument, and coming up with nothing, this is what you get ...
Maybe one day we can have a chat about analogies so that you can understand this better. It would be glorious.
Enjoy your day!
geoffkait18,558 posts11-27-2019 1:47pmatdavid, a serious question for you. You’re just pretending to be dense, right?
GK, I figured you would come back with some obtuse and irrelevant deflection to attempt to prove you were not wrong, but you disappoint even me with this attempt. There is no "60Hz" mumetal (generic, not the brand specific version), any more than there is a "high frequency" mumetal, both of high permeability. Higher permeability alloys are not good at high frequencies and anything that purports to be mumetal is not much use past 100KHz and rolls off well before that. Similarly, all of them work just fine with low frequency fields like 60Hz.
Oh, and GK, none of that does anything to negate that again you were wrong about how mumetal works. Maybe because of that you have been using it all wrong?
I don’t have to consult Wikipedia like you obviously do. I am obviously referring to audio applications of my metal. Duh! That would be low frequency 60 Hz high permeability Mu-metal and high frequency high permeability mu metal for speaker diaphragms.
Knowledge is what’s left after you forgot all that expensive stuff you learned in school. 😀
Best to read the whole Wikipedia article before posting, it will prevent you from posting things that are wrong, and for the record, once again I am Proving You Wrong.
The fact it "saturates" has nothing to do with the shielding. It has only to do with permeability
Know what happens when it saturates? ... it stops working as a "shield". That is why Mu Metal is often used as a secondary shield when high magnetic fields are present.
It is natural to assume that a Magnetic Shield does exactly what it say’s and acts as a shield deterring the magnetic field away from the protected area. In essence a Magnetic Shield does exactly the opposite, acting as a “sponge” drawing the magnetic field in. It is here that the clever bit happens – the magnetic field is now directed along the path of the shield, bypassing the protected area inside. This allows the field to circle around our protected area before continuing its journey once it leaves the opposing side of the shield. Providing the magnetic field is lower than the saturation of mu-metal (0.76 Tesla) the protected area remains free of spurious magnetic field. Once this level of saturation is reached and exceeded, leakage of the field into the protected area will once again occur. (Hint, that means it is conducting the magnetic field) From: mumetal.co.uk
A high-permeability material such as mu-metal or its derivatives can give LF magnetic shielding by concentrating the field within the bulk of the material, but this is a different mechanism to that discussed above, and it is normally only viable for sensitive (or noisy) individual components such as transformers. (Again, conducting the magnetic field) From: EMC for Product Designers (Fifth Edition)
PASSIVE SHIELDINGThere are two mechanisms for magnetic shielding:eddy-current cancellation, which occurs in materials with highelectrical conductivities andflux shunting, which occurs inmaterials with high magnetic permeabilities [7]. Flux shunt-ing is an effective mechanism for shielding static magneticfields and eddy-current cancellation is effective for time-varying magnetic fields. (MuMetal uses flux shunting. Flux shunting -- meaning conducting the magnetic field or shunting it). From a paper on CERN: https://groups.physics.ox.ac.uk/font/papers/IPAC19/ipac19-mopgw082_paper.pdf
MuMetal only works well till 10’s of KHz.
This showing you to be wrong is a full time job.
It is nice to know you are learning something from me.
No mints for you.
geoffkait18,553 posts11-27-2019 11:41ammu metal has high permeability so it saturates easily in the presence of a magnetic field, i.e., it ABSORBS. But at the same time, mu metal SHIELDS the surrounding electronics and wiring from the magnetic field, in the simple case of a transformer in an amplifier or BLU RAY player. It’s two! Two mints in one! 👯♂️
mu metal has high permeability so it saturates easily in the presence of a magnetic field, i.e., it ABSORBS. But at the same time, mu metal SHIELDS the surrounding electronics and wiring from the magnetic field, in the simple case of a transformer in an amplifier or BLU RAY player. It’s two! Two mints in one! 👯♂️
Except when you are buying RF/EMI sheets, they have very clear functions, of shielding, or absorbing. One cannot assume a shield absorbs, and more often than not, does not absorb. An absorber .... absorbs, which may or may not provide shielding depending on how you use it :-) Not to mention they are also clearly marketed and marked as such.
If we are going to go on semantics, a MuMetal shield does not really shield by absorbing, it shields by conducting.
geoffkait18,550 posts11-27-2019 8:41amAt the risk of being argumentative it’s a bit of a semantic argument. Mu metal shields by absorbing. Tank armor shields by absorbing. Capish?
I would compare them myself but for the fact I don’t have five years of my life to spare. Thanks for the suggestion, anyway. I actually have used one of the 3M sheets for sticking on top of microprocessors, you know, the ones that generate a lot of RF. The enemy within, as it were.
You never used the word absorbing until after I did. Then, in your bluster to prove you were right, you again posted that you used shielding sheets, many of them.
You used shielding sheets. Your own words state that. No one who actuality researched these things and knows what they are would mix them up. It is akin to mixing up a mirror and a black wall.
atdavid, by the way, I researched both shielding and absorbing sheets, learning how they work before ordering the absorbing sheets. So, your conjecture about what I know and do not know is-wait for it-wrong again! Gonna erase that post also? And before you proceed to drone on about how now I'm simply changing my story, wrong. I am clarifying my mistake on using the wrong word. Then again, I don't expect, neither do I care, that you believe me.
atdavid, thanks, I made a mistake. I bought and used 3M rfi/emi ABSORBING sheets, not shielding sheets. I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing out my error and strengthening my position of experience as opposed to your complete and total inexperience with the Omega+ mat. See how easy it is to admit you’re wrong?? You should try it sometime...
Sorry, thecarpathian, you don't get to wordsmith your way out of this.
You didn't know the difference between shielding sheets and absorbing sheets. Hence you did whatever you did with sheilding sheets.
I wasn't wrong. I said you hadn't any experience with absorbing sheets because you had already said that wasn't what you used , and You, yes You confirmed that again by repeating that you used shielding sheets, many of them.
"Considering that I am using power conditioners and have fairly clean power, do you think the Omega Mats would bring further noticeable improvements?" audiotigger Yes, I do believe Omega mats would improve the sound. I have Richard Gray's Isogray setup, and even though this is supposed to be clean power, even one mat under CD player made a big difference. These mats help everywhere--over circuit box and around components. I have more than a few of them now.
oregonpapa, most likely you used mu metal incorrectly. It’s a shield. It’s an absorber. There are two types of mu metal, at least, maybe you just used the wrong type, who the hell knows? Perhaps it was the wrong application or implementation. I can’t be there to inspect everyone’s handiwork all the time. That’s why there’s a Teleportation Tweak. So I don’t have to make house calls.
atdavid, you posted a statement to me where I proved you 100% unequivocally wrong. But instead of just admitting it, and saying something like- "Oh, my bad. I stand corrected," which might have garnered you a scintilla of respect around here, you chose to erase your post instead of admit you were wrong. Say, didn't you tell geoffkait in another thread that the difference between the two of you is you'll admit when you're wrong?? So, there goes that. By the way, if I'm wrong about that, I'll actually admit it....
I've used Mu metal. There's a limit in its effectiveness. A little is good. Too much and it dulls the sound. Not so with the Omega E-Mats. The more E-mats the better the sound.
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