New Lampizator Level 4/ Version 4 DAC in the house

Instead of asking, people need to listen to the Lampi themselves. Many mega buck Dacs would be taken down by even the L4 this is no exaggeration. I can only imagine how good the L7 is. No wonder demand for that one has exploded. Frankly, I think its one of the biggest bargains in audio!

Wrong link above.
Here's the right link. Just paste and copy it.
http://www.highendpalace.com/2005%20CES%20show%20in%20Las%20Vegas.htm

Grannyring, the best Eximus Dac and Transport was their Reference version which they made in the mid 2000's.
It looks like the Jadis and CEC.
Here's a pic of Eximus Reference Dac and Transport.
Scroll down to the middle of the page to see them.

http://www.highendpalace.com/2005%20CES%20show%20in%s%20Vegas.htm

Sorry, I just saw you meant the very latest new dac from Wyred. Don't know. I can say with near assurance the Lampi will be more musical if not quite as resolving. That is my gut or guess and not based on actual experience however.

I compared the Lampi 4/4 to a Eximus DP1 dac which is said and reviewed to be a better dac than the Wyred. No contest at all. The Lampi is so much more musical and real sounding. Far less Hifi sounding than the DP1.

Hey fellas. I see you're hanging out over here.

I'm leaving my L4G4 on 24/7 now. I have an Audio Magic PEA device inside it and turn that on and off from the outside of the unit. Can't say it does a whole lot. I felt the hifi tuning fuse made a much larger improvement.

I also added 2 Maher CBF's inside on the power inlet and transformers.

I finally have my Duelands in the Dude and Lampizator fully broken in and the detail and reality of the music is outstanding. Broken in enough that even CD quality music is tolerable. Only listening to computer audio these days.

My System pages here are outdated as I don't live there anymore. I'm lucky that my new digs are more voluminous and actually sound better.

Any potential Lampizator owners, don't hesitate. Worth every penny.

Hey fellas. I see you're hanging out over here.

I'm leaving my L4G4 on 24/7 now. I have an Audio Magic PEA device inside it and turn that on and off from the outside of the unit. Can't say it does a whole lot. I felt the hifi tuning fuse made a much larger improvement.

I also added 2 Maher CBF's inside on the power inlet and transformers.

I finally have my Duelands in the Dude and Lampizator fully broken in and the detail and reality of the music is outstanding. Broken in enough that even CD quality music is tolerable. Only listening to computer audio these days.

My System pages here are outdated as I don't live there anymore. I'm lucky that my new digs are more voluminous and actually sound better.

Any potential Lampizator owners, don't hesitate. Worth every penny.

Hey fellas. I see you're hanging out over here.

I'm leaving my L4G4 on 24/7 now. I have an Audio Magic PEA device inside it and turn that on and off from the outside of the unit. Can't say it does a whole lot. I felt the hifi tuning fuse made a much larger improvement.

I also added 2 Maher CBF's inside on the power inlet and transformers.

I finally have my Duelands in the Dude and Lampizator fully broken in and the detail and reality of the music is outstanding. Broken in enough that even CD quality music is tolerable. Only listening to computer audio these days.

My System pages here are outdated as I don't live there anymore. I'm lucky that my new digs are more voluminous and actually sound better.

Any potential Lampizator owners, don't hesitate. Worth every penny.

I heard a L5 once and thought it was very natural sounding.

How does the L7 sound different than a L5?

Has anyone compared the Lampizator Level 4 to the new Wyred4sound DSD SE DAC?

Wisnon,

From Lampizator Transport webpage:

Plays files in untouched form - full resolution. (up to 96/24)

It appears Transport is no longer based on SB Duet. SB Touch? proprietary design? Any ideas?

Knghifi.

I am just an extremly happy customer and one of the first commercial ones.

I only met L in person in Dec last. Many of you guys met him before I did. He is more often in the US than in Switzerland.

Its funny though, other people ask me if I work for Goldmund, and yet other will have to ask if I work for Illusonic, Swisscables or Rowen.

I champion what I like, nothing more.

Wisnon, I see your posts on Lamp in various websites. Do you have a professional affiliation with Lukaz or just a satisfy customer?

Correct, L makes many choices that sound good. His choice of film caps in the power supply, quality chokes in his point to point wired, Pi filter power supply. Yes, he uses silver wire in the signal path. My unit is neatly wired and well laid out.

Have any Lampi fans looked inside the box?? Scared me off! Looks like one step above a high school science project.

Twb2, Wikepedia is a dynamic and evolving source of information that endusers can edit. Care to review my post above (which I assume you missed) and provide a more nuanced definition of troll? Should it be more or less restrictive?

Lampizator, much like TRL, deliberately employs old school methods of fabrication in the name of SQ. Although it is easy to take a cursory look and throw stones, the grand irony is that it is harder and more time consuming to do it that way. You yourself transitioned from old school and boutique (Wavelength) to new Asian wave (Lumin) with circuit boards galore. Both approaches can work obviously. It would be interesting to compare Lampi (+ transport) to the Luminator.

Twb2, I saw that you are designated as a "commercial user." What does that mean and what if any professional audio affiliations do you have?

Lukasz specifically acknowledges that visually his internal wiring isn't neat,pretty and arranged in orderly bundles with 90 degree angles. He intentionally chose "3 dimensional" point to point wiring layout due to its superior sonic results despite the messier look. Seems a wise decision to me. Did you notice the high quality silver wire and high caliber part selection, or does that matter less than superficial appearances? Just wondering.

The chip in the 4,5 and 7 definitely do hi-rez as well as PCM so no limitations there. Only the 6 is limited to PCM due to the the vintage of the chip.

The main difference between the 4 and 5 is the fact the latter is dual mono. The 7 is a completely different beast, dual mono as well but employs direct heated triodes.

I'm the co-distributor and we just debuted the 7 for the first time at CES in Vegas. It's supremely musical to anything i've heard. The delicacy and soul of music must be heard to believed. Forthcoming pro reviews are already in the works.

TWb2, you are exposing some of your own ignorance in your comment. The Lampi unit is point to point wired for the most part. The power supply parts are point to point wired. It will not look like a picture of the insides of a Sony or Spectral piece of gear which are not point to point wired, not tubed etc.....

You must like well laid out printed circuit boards and define everything differing from that standard as home brew. There are different approaches to high end gear which dictate different looks and builds. Different is not poor, but different.

Too bad you cannot enjoy the music through a glorious sounding Lampi tubed DAC because you don't like the look of point to point soldering, large film caps, components mounted on wood for improved sound etc...

Just different.....not anything to run from. I suppose you would run from Shindo and Audionote gear also!

Gary, I think you know who distributor did a number on you. LoL

The new Box has nothing to do with the amps and is there for production efficiency reasons as well as sonic design reasons. Everything L does is for a purpose and is carefully thought out.

If you ever saw him work you would be amazed.

The amps are selling well BTW, as you would expect from GM70s at this price!

Isn't there a big difference in design/theory between the 4 and 5-7 given that the chip in the 5-7 is limited to 16/44.1 processing? I am not saying that is bad, but it has to change things, right?

Have any Lampi fans looked inside the box?? Scared me off! Looks like one step above a high school science project.

What if L had to buy a bunch/bulk of big boxes for his new amps he now is making/selling and has a stool load in his backyard he needs to unload? Honk Honk!!

Incorrect. This is a new custom box to accommodate the larger DHTs.

Just wait another month, it will be BAD news for BIG 26 owners. LOL!

Not very original and not funny. Still awaiting a system thread from u....:)

Something we all need to remember:

troll 2 (trōl)
n.
A supernatural creature of Scandinavian folklore, variously portrayed as a friendly or mischievous dwarf or as a giant, that lives in caves, in the hills, or under bridges.

From which we get a newer definition for activity in cyberspace:

TROLL
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument (Urban dictionary)

and

Troll (Internet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]
This sense of the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, but have been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[7][8]

and

Not bad news for the 4 at all. The 4 was always sufficient in a single box, based on the parts count.

The L4 is only being ignored for the moment, but it still represents great value, maybe the sweetspot of the range in terms of value.

Bruce, the 4 rules and all I will ever need :-)

What if L had to buy a bunch/bulk of big boxes for his new amps he now is making/selling and has a stool load in his backyard he needs to unload? Honk Honk!!

I would rather see the newer big box than the Cheeze Wiz containers the Lamp was laid in. :) ( better smile for you? )

Still think the Lamp dacs are special beings and need a lot of Praise for their ability to draw one into the music.

Carry on.

Thanks for the information good news bad news perhaps for L4 owners

Just wait another month, it will be BAD news for BIG 26 owners. LOL!

Thanks for the information good news bad news perhaps for L4 owners

ABruce. The single box will allow for all the space needed and allow for some vital components to be closer than an umbilical cord will allow. I think they will be preconfigured to make assembly faster as well. It seems that the L7 is now all the rage and the poor L4 is being ignored in favour of the higher levels.

Basically, he will move to Big 5, Big 6 and Big 7 exclusively. At least that is my current understanding.

Abruce, I think the box, like the big 6 single chassis, is very large with adequate real estate for gucci parts.

PFO magazine coverage of the Show:

Lampizator Audio, Theorem Imaging Science

Even the lower priced of the two systems exhibited by Lampizator Audio and Theorem Imaging Science stretched the limits of what "not outrageously priced" means, what with Mosaic Lumen speakers ($11,500), the Lampizator Level 7 DAC ($9495) or Lampizator Transport ($2595). But then, they powered the system with nicely affordable Musical Design T-100 Elite Amplifier ($2695) and Chameleon Elite Preamp ($2995). The sound justified the price, and I think I understand why the Lampaizator DACs have received so much positive commentary online. They had a much more expensive system in the next room, using Lampizator tube amplifiers and an $18,000 power line conditioner, but this lower priced system really sounded sweet, yet detailed and powerful. I think we'll be hearing a lot more from both Lampizator and the Mosaic speaker line.

Do you know why Wisnon, I thought the two box approach was to allow for more premium parts?

Thanks

So, I heard that the L7 will now be in a single giant box, as will the L5 and 6.

More CES feedback: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue71/ces20146.htm

King - I agree. I have stopped partnering with companies that cannot properly prepare for shows. I have been left high and dry sometimes. There is no excuse.

I finally found some really good ones that have outstanding equipment and work hard to do each show, Vapor Audio (vaporsound.com) and Antipodes Audio. No slackers there.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Audioengr, I am speaking only about the main TAD room. There were lots of rooms with their speakers this CES and THE Show. At least one was the result of their speaker not being delivered on time.

Audioengr, I'm ONLY questioning reason for bringing NEW components to a show. Show schedules have not changed for years so no excuse IMHO not to prepare properly.

When I move my components, it takes days to settle so I understand Sun has the best sound.

I had TAD E1's in my room 2 years ago at Newport show. They claimed they were broken-in. They weren't. Took 2-3 days before they opened-up.

From my experience, it takes ~350+ hrs before E1 opens up. I would not show unless 500+ hrs.

"Certainly TAD is one clear exception. They may seek better rooms and may fine tune their systems, but I have not heard much difference from day one onward."

I had TAD E1's in my room 2 years ago at Newport show. They claimed they were broken-in. They weren't. Took 2-3 days before they opened-up.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

"hooked it up via SPDIF through the Empirical Offramp4 and though he said it sounded better than his Mojo Audio DAC, he expected much more."

There are improvements in the OR5, but there are also updates to the OR4 that make it a LOT better. Those that lose touch by not visiting my forum regularly lose out on these updates. Most are very inexpensive.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

"If this is reality and believe in break in period, why bother showcasing your system if they are not at its best?"

Well, the show managers will not let us in but one day before the shows and this is simply not enough for break-in. Barely enough time for good setup. BTW, it's not just new components. I have exhibited at maybe 16 shows and each time the equipment needs break-in, even equipment that has had years of break-in. This effect I believe is due to static charge developing on all of the dielectrics during shipping and setup. Sunday is always the best day and it will probably always be that way.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Jwm, will do!

Shawbros3, my mini is a 2009 with many mods including an outboard power supply ....... Not using the switching wall wart. My Offramp 4 is loaded with Turbo clocks, Hynes Reg, latest transformer .......

The fact is the Dynamo power supply improved the sound more than the Offramp by itself. The Offramp alone was a nice improvement, but the Dynamo power supply was epic. I have shared that with Steve.

Next on my list will be placing Duelund caps in the Lampi!

I also use EA's spdif cable which is killer and should be used with the Offramp. I also use a USB filter made by UltraFi. It does a great job cleaning things up before the Offramp. Go to the UltraFi page and see it. It is called the Aubisque filter. Others make these sort of small USB filters. A/b testing proved this little device works well.

I am sure other means to sonic bliss abound and share what I have found with my Lampi and computer set up.

I am also sure the music player used....Amarra etc, also plays a big role. I think Amarra is the best option with it's room correction EQ tool. So many things impact the sound of a computer based front end. Some systems are more resolving than others making it easier to hear differences. All the little things in the end make a big difference in computer based audio. Which USB port used on the Mini matters, turning off programs in the Mini matters, software mods on the operating system matter. If these things are not done, then the Mini in question my be a jitter nerd:-). Love that phrase!

This is not a problem just buy two dueland caps and replace the jensen with them. If you don't like them you can always place the jensens back. In the lampizator this is a very easy job. Now get to it and report back.

Hi Lissnr,
You description of the Duelund CAST is simply dead on the bullseye. Very well said and fits my experience with them. The key words are natural and real, acoustic instruments have inherent warmth, body, color and vibrancy and they don't require any embellishment. The CAST have superb resolution and transparency yet aren't remotely analytical or clinical, just"organic" and correct. I'm actually surprised Bill experienced too much detail in some applications (perhaps revealing the character of ofter system components? ). I don't know, I can say that using the CAST in my DAC and speakers has provided stunningly excellent music reproduction and heighten the sense of realism. The Jensen may yield a pleasing "added" warmth but the Duelund are the "natural" choice.
Charles,

Knghifi, yours is a very good question. Most of the answer, I think, centers on not being organized. Many, especially small, manufacturers don't have stock to devote to prepare for the shows, including, of course, break in. Certainly TAD is one clear exception. They may seek better rooms and may fine tune their systems, but I have not heard much difference from day one onward.

But I should add that the use of hotel rooms is another major problem. Most are pretty awful. CES's putting the high end audio in the Venetian Towers means that many have two level room where there is no proper best listening placement. The railing of the higher portion is where you should be sitting.

Grannyring,

I'm happy that the Offramp/Dynamo combination is working so well for you. Like I said before it doesn't surprise me at all, I've heard only great things about Empirical Audio gear and their effectiveness in reducing jitter.

I am a bit surprised though that you state there is a night and day difference between the two inputs. My friend that bought my L4/G4 (just like yours with Jensens)hooked it up via SPDIF through the Empirical Offramp4 and though he said it sounded better than his Mojo Audio DAC, he expected much more. He then tried the USB input from his modded Mac Mini and finally heard the Lamp magic. It could be that the Offramp 5 is an entirely different beast than the O4, I don't know, but I was making that comparison so that folks know that the USB input can be VERY rewarding for sure.

In my case, I have never used a SPDIF converter. The O5 all dressed up could cost near $3k+, so I chose to go a different route and use the extra $$$$ to reduce jitter from the computer's USB port and provide clean power to the server. I think the 2010 Mac Mini is a very noisy server compared to a Windows 8 CAPs server (IMO), but it has a very BIG and warm sound so it might fit better in some systems. The Windows 2012 PC server I'm using right now sounds pretty darn good. It makes the Mac Mini sound veiled and colored. I've never had a 2009 Mac Mini/O5/Dynamo in my system and am curious to know how it would stack up against my server. I'll have to borrow an O5/Dynamo someday to kill my curiosity but for now the USB input on my Lamp does my music justice.

Regarding the Jensens vs Duelands. With vocals, the nod goes to the Jensens, there's just a sweetness to them that really gets to me. But overall, the Duelands are better especially with complex music. The Jensens just fall apart, like a 45 tube trying to power inefficient speakers. The Duelands don't smear and can delineate instruments with uncanny ability. Resolution is amazing as well. You will not get the warmth of the Jensens, but as Lissnr put it, the Duelands just sounds REAL.

Have you ever tried a Windows based PC before in your system?

Happy Listening!

Hi Bill, I understand your hesitancy when it comes to losing the beauty of the Jensen's warmth but it sounds like you have some warmth to spare considering the EL-34's in the Thor (I love that tube, its been my long term favorite output tube for almost 20 years)... add in the Audio Note coppers and it makes me think there should be room to swing back a little 'true-er'.
After all my above assertions I agree that the Duelunds will bring you closer to the real thing and I am reinforcing that but I also want to remind you that, based on your equipment it's obvious that you (understandably ) enjoy a bit of warmth in your system.
I still have one of the amps I used before the TRL's (thank you for your compliment) which is my Cary SA 280 V12R that also uses the Jensens and EL-34's.So believe me when I mention that not only is it OK to linger on the warmish side...I've lived there myself with thousands of hours of musical enjoyment and the only criticism (too strong a word but I'm making a point) is that it did veer from the truth. But, after
thousands of hours I can easily say: "so what?".
Point is, yes, you will get a considerably more truthful presentation and you will be very impressed...you will truly enjoy its candor and its lack of accent flavorings and you will know right away it's more of what the truth is. But, if you are anything like me (sentimental but usually reluctant to admit it) you will not/should never sell the Jensens because in your mind you will have to know that IF you ever wanted to 'go back', even for a brief visit...you could always pop them back in and reminisce about the old days.
Good luck, enjoy. Report back!

Knghifi, the reality is that almost everything at CES or any show is new. That is why at Friday through Sunday shows, you really should just show up on Sunday.

If this is reality and believe in break in period, why bother showcasing your system if they are not at its best? It could do more harm than good when 1st impression is crucial. What do you do before selling a car or house?

Components take time to settle plus fine tuning so usually sounds best on the last day from my experience.

Steve, I bet your comments on the PIO caps bypassed with Vcaps is accurate. I have to admit I have a place in my heart for Duelund. They can be very, very special in the right gear. The Lampi may well be the right gear!

Lissnr, I also have CAST in my Dude and have put them in all kinds of gear and know the sound well. I was wondering about specific placement in the Lampi dac as my music is so darn good right now and wonder if the CAST would tilt my system over to the analytic side of things.

Your comments help me for sure. I will say I put the CAST in my past amps, CD player and had them in my Dude and things got too detailed and lean for my liking. So for me too much CAST is possible it seems, thus my hesitancy. My current system is not bright or lean in the slightest way. If anything it may be on the warm and romantic side.

I have Coincident TV III speakers which are pretty neutral and perhaps a tad warm. My Thor TPA el34 amps are warm and have Audio Note copper caps. My Lampi dac with the Jensens sounds exactly like you outlined above. You know how our Dudes sound with the CAST......full of piss and vinegar! Ha! Bold, big, dynamic and real! I would not call the Dude warm, but let's everything through as intended.

Wish I had your amps! You have the finest amps available and are blessed indeed.

I am going to go ahead and try them in my Lampi.

Hi Bill, I'm pretty familiar with the Jensens and you have described them accurately...they are a "feel good" cap that will make most systems lean to the 'pleasant' side of real. They are very seductive in that regard and even in a generally well balanced [referring to tonal character] system they are difficult to remove once you are accustomed to their sound. I would also recommend them to anyone with a slightly "hot" or "etched" system...perhaps someone with NO tubes anywhere through the signal path and that might lean to a traditional ss sound...these will be ideal.
As for the Duelund cast caps, not only are they more resolving (a good thing) they are also less warm (but still a GOOD thing) because what they REALLY are is utterly natural and realistic sounding.
In my experience I have heard the Lampi L4G4 with Jensens in my system and instantly heard its obvious appeal. Once I almost immediately caught the Lampizator Dac bug I decided to move up and everything I read and heard about the "Big 6" convinced me it was a perfect choice, so I ordered one. As it turned out due to a temporary backlog of Duelunds, I went with the VH V-caps in it and learned about their particular character too. Can you say: Detail, transparency, dynamics...did I mention Detail? They were quite a contrast to the Jensens and I'm sure that in a more 'traditional' and perhaps tube-rich system they would be welcomed with their strengths. But the Duelunds finally arrived and went right in.
Here is what I'll say about the Duelunds (and please remember both my TRL Dude AND TRL GT-200 monos are fitted with them too); "Reality has landed..." Take whatever you liked about the Jensens, whatever I liked about the V-caps, whatever anyone may find as a positive attribute about any of their favorites and distill them all into a perfect blend. What you'll get is what REAL sounds like. That's what they sound like. Real. No excess... no 'lean towards...' No distinguishing flavor... Just real, honest, truthful, natural music as if it was there...or, I should say: as if it was "Here, in your own room".
IMHO do not hesitate to go with the Duelund cast copper caps wherever you can. (Yes, fortunately / unfortunately, whichever way you vs your wallet may see it), their effect IS cumulative with each piece of gear in the food chain.
Remind yourself how seriously better some piece of new equipment really made you feel? I mean a real, significant and obvious advancement in bringing you 'closer to the real thing'..in YOUR own room?
Do the Duelund(s). You'll feel it again.
My personal two cents. Keep in mind they do need quite a few hours before sounding their best but still sound darn good with barely a hundred. Be patient on up to 400 or more before they're finally at their best and don't be too surprised when a few months go by and you still note subtle aspects of better-than-ever...
Good luck with it and Happy Lissn'n!

You can get close to the Duelands with ~3uFd oil caps combined with .22uFd CUTF caps from v-cap.com. I think the non-CAST Duelands would be sufficient. The CAST are best in speaker crossovers.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio