" 03-18-14: Bifwynne
Wolf, are you mixing and matching thoughts. I think Tsushima's comment refers to life testing the KT-150, not so much the sound. "
Just So Bifwynne , altho I would consider that from an ARC perspective the most prescient factor would be due diligence
in respect of equipment safety margins and measurements , more so than valve denudation or even how each model responds audibly , even tho improved fidelity would be the the catalyst for such experimentation.
That said , I do feel that ARC's somewhat nebulous position on this matter and apparent disinclination to engage with their customer base , especially those who may have an material interest in the models,under/not under ? R&D,to be less than understanding!
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I'm not capable of mixing thoughts...one thought at a time for me. Does "life testing" involve carrying the tubes around with you? Restaurants, dentist visits, etc....or simply talking to the tubes about life..."You were sand and chemicals once...and NOW look at you!" |
Wolf, are you mixing and matching thoughts. I think Tsushima's comment refers to life testing the KT-150, not so much the sound.
Just my own lay reaction is that from what I've read, the KT-150 doesn't draw a heck of a lot more current than the KT-120s. My knee jerk thought is that the KT-150s would NOT damage the power trannies.
Further, the KT-150's power output is not that much greater than the KT-120s. Again, my knee jerk reaction is that the KT-150s wouldn't harm the downstream components in the gain stage.
But ... hey, I'm not a EE. So, like the rest of us, I'll patiently wait. I love my Ref 150. Dam* if I'll stick a tube into it that ARC doesn't bless. |
A great deal of time? How about listening to the amp to see how the tubes sound...that takes about 3 minutes. |
More importantly ... do the KT-150s sound better than the KT-120s and if so how much better. Even more important, how much do they cost and is the cost increase worth it. |
One bit of hype that seems silly is the claim that the pickle shape eliminates microphonics...assuming this shape doesn't allow vibration from anywhere to get to the tube...nonesense. |
Is this an horizontal bi-amped configuration? What's sitting between the 250's?
I would bet that those are indeed 150's.
For room acoustics, they much favour diffusion than absorption in that room.
"Hopefully our government does not start embargoing products shipped from Russia...."
No they won't. Putin will take care of that including shutting down all the oil and gas pipelines heading towards Western Europe creating a global financial collapse. |
Bifwynne, Whilst not the sharpest of images when blown up I am pretty confident that they are indeed sporting the Mythical KT150! whether the circuit has been modified in any way is of course unknown.
I am aware of at least two intrepid ARC owners currently running KT150's in their 2x output valve per chanel VSi75's, bias set at 65mv , with no ill effect(as yet)noted.
Again one might theorize that ARC R&D may be a little more confident in respect of KT150 loading on the Mains transformer(s)as supplied on certain of their recent models, they may however be a little less comfortable ,as yet ,in respect of Mains headroom on other models , in particular were a Single Mains transformer is already supplying a Quad of 6550's or KT120's per channel .
Life testing of a new production valve and thorough evaluation of any potential implementation within existent models may take a reassuringly great deal of time .
Mere speculation on my part of course ,In which , as an Ref150 owner I would very much like to be proven wrong !
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If those are indeed KT-150's (difficult to tell) in the Ref250's that would make perfect sense as that is part of the life testing process. If I talk to the factory next week, I will inquire about the KT-150 status and availability. Hopefully our government does not start embargoing products shipped from Russia.... |
Tsushima, my eyes ain't what they used to be. I assume you are implying that ARC is hogging the KT-150s for itself? Rats!!! I hate hogs. Well ... I don't feel like getting my head snapped off by calling ARC. Perhaps Gary (Hifigeek) will weigh in again with a status report. |
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I may have mentioned someplace that I've seen 150s on Ebay for around 300 bucks for a quad...that seems almost reasonable. |
Anyone have anything to report on pricing. I heard and/or read that pricing could be double that of KT-120s. |
I think the "don't ask ARC" thing was about protecting the sensitive ARC people from further stress, as Hifigeekl is nothing if not compassionate. I, however, am not. I read in a Brit hifi mag last night that 150s are a "drop in" replacement for 120s, and have a smoother sound...that's what the dude said. The tiny difference in heater requirements make it seem he might be right. I still have never seen anything regarding an amp tranny frying from 120s replacing kt88s anywhere ever at all even once. I'll keep looking. |
People please do not ask ARC what the status of the KT-150 is. Thanks. Why? 02-07-14: Wolf_garcia
I might buy a quad of 150s when my 120s die just to see if my amp would blow up. Am I so wrong? Seems the amp (Jolida 502p) can take it...plus I'm getting curious about the 150s and starting to overcome the pickle-esque vibe. Wolf, proof me wrong that you don't have small ones. LOL!!! |
I might buy a quad of 150s when my 120s die just to see if my amp would blow up. Am I so wrong? Seems the amp (Jolida 502p) can take it...plus I'm getting curious about the 150s and starting to overcome the pickle-esque vibe. |
Can we please get this thread back on KT150 tubes? |
its not a reliability problem, they just found a new cap they like the sound of better. |
If they have reliability and/or supply issues with their tef caps why don't they go with Vcaps. At their asking price, their entire Ref line should have Vcaps in them. Not those no brand name white caps that appear to have some reliability issues.
Just sayin' you know..... |
Thanks Tsushima1. I read the various posts in the attached link. I suspect that ARC had either supplier issues and/or there were performance improvement gains by going with the new caps. My Ref 5 SE and Ref 150 both have the "old" white Teflon monsters.
I'm a big ARC fan and I believe that if ARC is using different coupling caps, it made the switch-out for good reason. I recall that I had to wait about a year before ARC called me to upgrade my Ref 5 to the SE version. One of the reasons for the delay: supplier problems. But as I said, it may be there are reliability or performance issues with the Teflon caps. Dunno.
Maybe if Hifigeek catches this thread, he will chime in. |
FAO ~ Bifwynne ,
http://www.audioaficionado.org/audio-research/23028-arc-coupling-capacitors.html
You should have no concerns as long as you experience no necessity for ARC to replace any of your 2uF coupling capacitors ,note post #17.
(I trust that posting the above does not contravene any forum rules ? , my apologies to the Mod's in advance and please delete should this be the case ) |
Although I barely care what ARC says about most things, I'm tempted to ask them about the 150s simply because I was asked not to. |
Tsushima1, please explain what you meant when you posted that ARC was "phasing out of the 2Uf Teflon coupling capacitors on the Ref 150." I own the Ref 150 so I have a real interest. |
Hmmm, standard ARC Central Obfuscation ! I had enough of this when inquiring as to the current situation over ARC's lack of customer disclosure in regard to their phasing out of the 2Uf Teflon coupling capacitors on the Ref 150 .
I sincerely hope that you have not been in any way compromised over this Gary ! |
Andreas Hoffman (owner and designer) from Octave has cleared the KT150 for use in the V110. He did also mention if you have a V110 you will only be able to hear the sonic differences but get no more power out of the KT150 without a circuit re-design. He said he likes the KT150 sound a lot (didn't mention why) and is considering re-designing the V80 to accommodate the KT150 for the higher power. |
People please do not ask ARC what the status of the KT-150 is. Thanks. |
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if the come anywhere nere the Tesla Vršovice kt88 in sound I will gladly pay $7-800 for an octet. The Eat KT88 which I believe to be the same as the tesla are fetching $1400 for the quad which is crazy money for (most of us . that being said those KT88 had air and space Carnagie Hall compared to local bar) like nothing Ive heard before or since.Too bad they were a bad match for my hard driving rogue 120s.
Has anyone here heard the Eats and the 150s? |
I am at the 1,990 mark on my Ref 150 KT120s and was curious about replacing with KT150s. I called Kal at ARC who has been an invaluable resource in the past. I asked when ARC would be done testing the KT 150s. He told me that ARCs position is that it views the life testing of Kt 150s as a "rumor". He could neither confirm nor deny whether that tube was being tested or if was even being considered for testing in the current line. Of course, he was very polite but very firm. I ordered 8 KT120s |
Good morning Gary (Hifigeek).
Merely wondering whether there has been any further progress reports coming out of ARC Central ?
One would presume a bare minimum test time in line with ARC's retail tube guarantee regardless of any decision whether to retail directly or not. |
Gary (Hifigeek) - looking forward to reading your reactions after CES.
Hopefully, even if ARC should decide NOT to sell/or use the KT-150s, it will at least advise whether the KT-150s may still be used in ARC amps at the customer's option. IOW, that the KT-150 will not damage those amps that are already cleared to use the KT-120s.
It's bitter cold here in Philly. Hope the weather is better on the West Coast.
BIF |
Still life testing and it is unclear if ARC will even sell these tubes due to the cost of each tube. I was told the tube exhibits a superb midrange. When I hear something after CES, I will post it to the thread. |
Hifigeek1, any more info from ARC on the KT150's? For those of us running 4 KT120's in a REF75 or VSi75, what would the new power rating be? If there really is a sonic benefit, the cost of a quad, at $300-$400 would be cheap as an upgrade to an $8000 unit. |
Wolf ... when speaking with Upscale Audio, one of the guys slipped that the KT-150s may rtail for about $100 per tube, or thereabouts. However, that price is not fixed yet as I mentioned above.
Even still ... if that is indeed the final price, it's almost twice that of the KT-120s. And ... unless the KT-150s have longer life, I'll probably take a pass, unless I inherit some money and get an itch to road test um' on a whim. I use my rig pretty much every day. The cost of tubes will get prohobitively expensive.
Let's see what somes back in user comments.
Happy Holidays,
Bruce |
Cheapest 150s I've seen are $300 for a quad. |
Sounds promising Hfg1 , the last time I ran this past the main UK distributor being a number of weeks past the situation ,as far as was aware at that time , was that the Ref 75 would be Circuit/Traffo compatible , the Ref 150 he thought more doubtful !
The situation might have been misinterpreted however ,and the situation may well have developed since that time.
We wait upon the Judgment of Zeus ! |
Oooops my bad on the last post...disregard. Tsushimal they are technically compatible as far as I know at this point. ARC would not be life testing the tube if it wasn't. It remains to be seen what ARC says about the specs however. |
Bifwynne..KT-120's....2,000 hours. |
The review of the Icon Audio, KT150 tubed amp was very favourable, but Icon Audio makes very good, well designed and priced amps, designed in the UK and built in China. I am not sure that not being designed for a specific tube, precludes the benefits of retubing. For example the ARC REf 110 retubed with KT120's sounds much closer to the ref 150.
I agree though that cost may be a clincher for some, particularly if you need a larger number of tubes, than the 4 I would need for the Ref 75. I never actually advocated making the change, just pondered on what the ARC reference amps would sound like with the 150 tube. |
The feedback I'm getting is that the tube has a beautiful midrange so we shall see. |
Thank you once again Hfg1 for keeping we ARC'rs in the loop
Were the utilization of the KT-150 to prove technically compatible , I do hope , regardless of pricing , that ARC R&D leave such a decision up to the end user rather than deciding not to sanction the option on cost alone.
Presumably ARC are considering the price that they would wish to charge for ARC Factory approved valve sets.
Jasper. |
I can't imagine my amp sounding better than it does with 120s, and unless an amp is designed around the 150s to be more powerful I don't see spending the bucks on 150s...thus 120s become a serious bargain. |
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Icon Audio is already featuring 'em. They sort of beat everybody to the punch with those. |
Are there any integrated amps out that come with KT150's? |
I understand that Upscale Audio has a batch of KT-150s in stock that are being tested. Not for sale yet, but possibly early next year. Retail pricing not set yet either, but early thought is more than the KT-120s, which as an aside, may take a price increase (TBD).
Put it to you this way. If the KT-150 is twice as expensive as the KT-120, I doubt it would be cost effective for me unless the useful life of the tube increased proportionally with price. Otherwise, I'd be sweating bullets every minute the rig was running.
I heard a buzz that ARC may complete life testing the KT-150 in February/March next year. My current set of KT-120s is ready to be replaced now. I'm inclined to retube my amp with the KT-120s and catch others' comments and reactions.
Happy Holidays,
Bruce |
Talked to ARC yesterday. Tubes are still in life test but apparently will be quite a bit more costly than the KT-120. Whether people will want them at the price they end up being, is difficult to say but KT-150's may not be cost effective. |
Thank you for the update Ffg1 , hopefully we may receive some direction early-ish in the New Year . |
Nothing yet. Still life testing |
11-13-13: Hifigeek1
Regarding the KT-150. It is not known yet if this tube is a drop in replacement for the KT-120. I'm awaiting info from the ARC engineering dept. on this issue. The KT-150 puts out more power than the KT-120 which could mean it draws more heater current than the KT-120 does. When I get more info on this, I will share it here. Until that time, I would be very careful using this tube.
Hifigeek1 (Threads | Answers | This Thread)
Good morning Hifigeek1.
I was musing upon whether any further 'evaluation in progress' reports may have filtered out from ARC Central ?
Rgds. |
