Anyone have a chance to hear the new Bel Canto amplification at RMAF? I understand they have a Mk II version of the Ref 1000's and some new mono amps. I'd be interested in hearing impressions.
Simon did more then (most of) voicing of latest iteration of Spectron amp. Everybody who auditioned Spectron stereo vs monoblock knows enormous difference between both. Yet, in most of the manuals its written by Chief Designer, John Ulrick that "we do NOT recommend to use this amp in monoblock mode " and given some "smart engineering" reasons.
Simon brought Bybee upgrade(for half-year management did not know about it or knew but forgot to audition yet) , Simon brought v-cap upgrade, Obviously I don;t know proprietary things but he even forced them to bring ceramic silver fuses, discard garbage Chinese-like soldering and use only pure WBT (that is until now...). Simon insisted that each and every change in amplifier can be upgraded to the owners of old amplifiers including Musician II made centuries ago to preserve capital invested by customer in original unit and raise "the brand loyalty".
Before he left he suggested the business plan where he introduced Musician IV concept, in details, - very new amplifier - but only as continuation of Musician III amplifier so any owner of older amp can ship it and be upgraded to the latest generation.
I cannot describe the reasons why he left the company, company almost nobody heard about before he jointed and now praised by everybody - but it mist be good reasons and I would venture only one guess - owners wanted more profit, now, today, after lunch!
We will see what will happened with Joule-Electra (new preamp is coming to my house...), Elrod and other companies he now works with. And he is "just" retired electrical engineer (not even audio engineer) and former concert pianist... and its all is hobby for him (he gets paid of course but his life does not depend on it)
I also want to see that will happened with Spectron and not in three years but in three months! Today's Spectron is first class product for sure. However, nobody knowledgeable answers phone now, nor answers e-mail now - do they think they sell refrigerators to idiots? Will they keep quality, expensive parts like silver fuses, will they do QA on each shipped amp.... we will see.
Their luck is that their production engineer is very hard working fellow so the product is always be supported.
Hundreds of new companies raised and died over last few decades and greed was usually main reason (of failure not rise).
Gents, whilst this is, uhrn. . . 'fascinating', we may want to migrate any further Spectron meta discussion to an appropriate Spectron-related thread. G.
The thread is dedicated to Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk2 and I think concensus is that from first approximation these are first class, sorry D class ;--) amplifiers and we are trying to chat their place among that we condsider the best in class D.
I think Tvad raised excellent question: can we place among these few, the best - the company which a few people heard a few years ago and which dramatically (totally and radically!!!!!) changed its business model i.e. Guido - they want to be the different company (better for them, but does it mean better for customer?) and lost one of its main designers who also did rather profesional customer support. There are not so many such companies so I feel that Tvad question is more then appropriate. Things are so rapidly changes in this economy that I expressed my genuine (abslolutely genuine) interest where this company will be in just three months? and what other companies will be among best in class D in 3-6 months. For example, Simon left Spectron but he didn't die, did he... opened his own ("consulting" as he calls it) company... lets see. This thread is very appropriate place to discuss Bel Canto and other current, former and future contenders... I feel
Yes, rafael, this thread is very appropriate for discussing comparative opinions and even speculations of Bel canto Ref 1000 performance, as it may relate to other amplifiers of any class, including class D devices. The rest is best moved elsewhere. G.
I recently replaced my bel canto eVo 6 with three Ref 1000 mk IIs because one of the Tripath boards failed. I gambled on class D technology when I bought the eVo 6 because I believed it was a step in the right direction. Even though the eVo 6 forced me to clean up my apartment AC line noise, I enjoyed the uncolored music it delivered to my speakers. The Ref 1000 mk IIs illustrate how rapidly this technology is advancing; especially with the implementation of switch mode power supplies. The later amps are producing surprisingly better bass and are dead quiet even though I reinstalled the light dimmers that contributed audible noise with the eVo 6. I'm grateful that I have made a noticeable upgrade in my system, but I'm also a little peeved that Tripath was swallowed up by a bigger fish across the pond and that the eVo6 failed just past the two warranty. No risk, no return.
Has anyone got to do some serious listening with both the ref1000 and ref1000 mkII?? I currently own a pair of ref1000s, and wanting to know if the 2000 for the pair is a significant upgrade in quality.
I do not own Bel Canto switching amps. (I did in the past). However, I have audutioned Reference 1000 Mk2 in the same system I auditioned Mk1 - the difference was dramatic (for my ears, tastes etc)
Hi DOB, Yes I agree thtt I can't have a personal (emphasis on personal) opinion until I've had a listen for myself. But they don't sell them around my neck of the woods (Montreal) and the only way to hear one is to buy one. But a topic of discussion and dispute amongst audiophiles are just like the one between us. Shaddap until ya hear for yaself. But if I've never read anything bad about this amp either from owners and the hi end press there must be something about this. Everybody can't be B.S.ing all the time. So yes my curiosity is piqued and I doubt that I will be dissapointed when I do have a listen. Now, another thing I'm picking up is that preamp match up is also critical. I'm not sure my Krell KTC is the best match. A friend of a friend of a friend.. here we go again...said that he went thru the same quest as you. You've settled on a Joule-Electra preamp, he with a Supratek (I don't know which model), and apparently (hearesay again) he's ecstatic.
Hello Hifipete, I agree with you that Supratek has similar charecter to Joule-Electra new preamplifier, LA-300ME but its not "there" yet. Joule-Electra always was famous for its deep articulated bass (read Golden Ear Award by HP last year) but this preamp should be even better.
Also, I don't have any disput with you - on the contrary, I am in agreement with you that ahy amp must hea heard, first of all and its manufacturer reputation for reliability and customer support must be fully investigated.
I probably, worded. my opinion poorly and I am sorry if it appeared that I am in disagreement with you
Considering the MkII upgrade to Ref 1000, no local distributor to audition. Would like to hear more from those who have the oppportunity to do a direct comparison. Kal, when can we expect your article to be published?
I will be starting to break in a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk2 monos very shortly. I will post my findings on Audiogon in the form of a new review thread after I reach the 1000 hours breakin mark. I won't be able to compare to the Mk.1 version because I do not have the older version at hand. I will use the JRDG 312 as a benchmark instead. Guido
See my review of the Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk.2 monoblock amplifier just posted on issue No. 43 of Positive Feedback Online. Yes, IMO, this is an example of an excellent and very musical high power amplifier at a Real World price, regardless of underlying technology. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/bel_canto_ref1000.htm
Thank you guys, much appreciated. It is pretty clear to me that switching mode amplification is coming into its own, at a variety of pricepoints, with some leading products that do not owe any apologies to anyone for not containing 'traditional' technologies.
A well researched and written review on the Bel Canto Ref 1000 MKII - thanks!
A couple of questions if i may?
1. In my audition of the Ref 1000's earlier this year one of the most impressive aspects of the amplifier was its speed or transient response which was particularly appreciated in large scale orchestral music but benefited all music in general. What was particularly impressive about the amp was its awesome control over the harmonic tail. Your review only skirts the speed determinant. I wondered whether you'd like to comment further?
2. Depth was another strength of the amp - its ability to cast images from the front speaker plane to seemingly one mile behind the speaker plane was another outstanding attribute. Again, your review is largely silent on depth of field performance. Can you comment further on what you found?
3. One criticism i had of the Ref II amplifier was its poor ability to capture 'body' in the vocal image. The machinery's focus on neutrality means the presentation will be considered a touch lean by some. Because of this, i preferred driving the Ref II's with valve pre-amplification which then for me summed to the perfect team - flesh plus dynamics! While i'm aware your review did not include any valve pre-amplification and that clearly you must be a 'neutral' guy given your selection of components i would nonetheless invite any comment you have on the density of the body of the vocal image.
4. Finally, you used new Furutech cables for this review. I would be personally interested to know why you favour the Evolution II cables and whether during the course of the review you inserted your Cardas cables to observe what sonic changes resulted? Personally, i found the Cardas (Golden Ref and Golden Cross) quite suitable for partnering with the Ref II's. They helped inject tonal warmth to the precedings.
I prefer the Furutech Evo IIs to PCs and speaker wires to the Cardas Golden Ref wires that I had in the system, both with JRDG 312 and Bel cantos, prior to starting to write the review. As the effect of the wiring swap was common to both JRDG 312 and Bel canto, I removed the issue from the review equation. I may discuss it in a future article on the Furutech wires.
As I assert in so many words in the conclusion, the R1K Mk.2s are remarkable and engaging devices. Perhaps I should have also mentioned that there were one of a relatively small number of amplifier that I enjoyed at RMAF in 2008. Their impressive ability to expose harmonic complexity is discussed both in the sections on the Poroscina performance and the quasi Tuvan throat song of the bariton in Regnantem Sempiterna.
Illustration of the amps' excellent staging and imaging is found in the Krall and in the Yo Yo Ma paragraphs, although I am not sure what a stage a mile deep would sound like, regardless of reproduced music or standard live venues.
The authority and transient ability of the amps is also excellent, as I discuss in the cello work, in the conclusion, and I believe also in the section on Krall, in spite of some minor quibbles.
The Bel Cantos break in relatively quickly for ICEpower amps. They stabilized after approximately 500 hours, which is when any residual leanness was removed, and they reached maximum top to bottom frequency extension and harmonic congruence. While some leanness and foreshortened treble was in evidence prior to them settling down completely, by the time I wrote the review I found them to be very well balanced across the spectrum, except for some minor and only occasional exhuberant flares in the mid bass region. However, as you point out correctly, I do admittedly belong to the school of moderate musical neutrality, and I do not typically enjoy more than the gentlest trace of 'warmth' in a device. G.
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