Yes, Bel Canto Ref 500 monos in room 589 in the Marriott were driving a pair of $38K TED speakers and the result was. . . magnificent! Open, extended top to bottom, graceful, authoritative, nuanced. Bel Canto Ref 500 monos are worth listening too. . . do not be fooled by their basic/industrial look. . .. just remember that as they are class D amps and they run very cool they are likely to be real bears to break in. Guido |
From the Soundstage blurb linked above:
"The sound was finely detailed and rich with ambience, satisfying even those listeners seated to one side or the other."
Bang on I must say. . . I was one of those people sitting on one side, by the way.
G. |
I have just checkd with Bel Canto. . . according to them, there is NO REF2000 amp planned at any time. G.
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Hi Downunder, In the Bel Canto room I was impressed by the sound I heard more than anything else. Bel Canto may have concentrated resources on engineering internals rather than on exterior metal work. I suspect the Ref1000 still utilizes the ASP1000 modules. But given the great sonic variability of amps employing this module across the industry, I suspect Bel Canto may have performed excellent work around it. I do not know details yet, but here is what I extracted from the BC press release on the subject:
" Fully-balanced input stage yields high common mode noise rejection and wide dynamic range. Optimizing internal impedances improves amplifier drive for even lower noise and distortion. Measurements reveal a full 6dB improvement in signal-to-noise ratio when driving the output amplifier section with low-impedance loads.
The input stage uses the latest top-quality parts including Caddock resistors, Solid Electrolytic ultra-low ESR decoupling capacitors, and low-noise regulated power supplies, ensuring the input section is utterly transparent.
The highest spec REF1000 MKII and the REF500 mono amplifiers are fitted with custom power supply rectification and filters that substantially increase the power supplys energy storage. Theyre manufactured with carefully selected high-speed, low-noise rectifiers, high-voltage film filter capacitors and high energy storage capacity. What this means for you is lower noise and reduced sensitivity to power line effects."
I'll post more detail if I learn any.
G. |
Downunder, yes it would be interesting to learn how Bel Canto has achieved its sonic goals in the latest generation of amps while containing weight to under 20 pounds. We are starting to see a flurry of deceptively minimalistic devices which yield sophisticated sonic performances by applying unconventional technological solutions to traditional problems. . . and I suspect we may see more of these in the future. G. |
Kenobi, I listened to the entire system and it is difficult for me to isolate any particular observation to the BC Ref 500 amps unless I auditioned them in my own system. Furthermore, there were no other amps in the same room against which to compare the Ref 500s. I also have no experience with the original Ref 500/1000. Yet, here are my subjective impressions roughly mapped to your itemized issues:
1) Midrange was solid/textured, and transparency was in evidence.
2) Speed -- I call this transient response. . . yes BC seemed quite nimble/agile on macro/micro transients.
3) Laid back? -- System was not 'agressive', I thought it sounded 'realistic' and eminently listenable without ever sounding dull/boring.
4) Smooth -- System did not sound etched in most recordings, but I was very pleased by the amount of harmonic texture that was exposed.
5) Resolution -- Seemed to be one of the most resolving systems at the show. But could not perform a direct comparison with other amps.
6) Soundstaging: broad, deep, and expansive, good 'air' around instruments.
Unles I have the opportunity to listen to BC Ref500 or Ref1000 at some length in a very familiar system/environment, I can't make meaningful comparisons with closely competing devices. . . Yet, it was pretty evident to me after 2 lengthy visits in the suite, even sitting way to the side and at a 90 degree angle to the speakers, that the new BC reference lineup are worth a very careful listen/consideration. G. |
Hi Dob, did you hear them at RMAF? The entire system in 589 was pretty remarkable. G. |
Thank you Everest, that was very interesting. . . for one thing, according to John Stronczer in the video, , the front ends of Ref500 and Ref1000 amps appear to convert AC to DC and store temporarily the energy in a bank of capacitors. Feeding the machine stabilized DC is also the general idea behind the JRDG approach using PFC modules. . . in fact, when listening to Ref 500s in Denver, I was struck by a finesse that reminded me of JRDG 312. . . Even at the time I was wondering if Bel Canto was perhaps preconverting AC to DC in R500s. |
Dev, I agree with you that Rowland 501 monos, and even NuForce, and by all accounts the original Bel Canto 1000 Mk.1 may not yield the ultimate musical involvement. On the other hand, since then designs have been evolving rather rapidly, and some of the most recent class D designs, including the Bel Canto Mk.2 devices discussed here, have IMO reached a level of subtlety and involving musicality worth a new listen. Granted, top performing class D amps are not necessarily all inexpensive any longer, as the Rowland 312 stereo, and well appointed Spectron monos are in the same ballpark as the Pass X600.5. Conversely, The Mk.2 versions of the Bel Canto Ref500 and Ref 1000 are still more modestly priced. Yet, all of these devices have now reached performance levels that have little to do with switching amps of old. . . meaning of just 2 or 3 years ago (grins!) G. |
Hi Rafael, please tell us more about your misgivings of Bel CantoRef Mk. 2 series. G. |
Rafael, while there is moderate correlation -- at least in principle -- between price and performance, I prefer not to venture too many prognostications. By the way, JRDG 312 uses twin swwitching power supplies, rather than linear/toroidals. See the sidebar on 312 on issue 188 of TAS--I believe around page 80.
My general philosophy on the subject of power supplies is best summarized by the words of Igor Stravinsky in the Poetics Of Music: "By its fruit we judge the tree. Judge the tree by its fruit then, and do not meddle with the roots. Function justifies an organ, no matter how strange the organ may appear in the eyes of those who are not accustomed to see it functioning."
For the time being, I can only state that I really liked what little I heard of the Bel Canto Mk.2 series, and that they are currently somewhere towards the top of my preferencial non-integrated amplifying heap, together with the class D JRDG 312 stereo, the class A/B Theta Citadel monos, and the class D Spectron. . |
Hi Dave, my review article of Vienna Mahlers with sidebars on JRDG 312 and Sumiko Masters set is on The Absolute Sound issue 188 for December 2008. . . I think the main article starts at page 76 or 78.
Rafael, believe it or not, we appear to agree. Like yourself, I am not in a position of judging any power amp to be the ''best'. I probably spent about 3 hours with the Spectron Mus 3 stereo in 07, which is about as much time I spent this year with the Bel Canto Ref 500 Mk.2. The 2 rooms were both acoustically very good, if very different; In the end, I had sufficient time with both amps to tentatively flag them towards the top of my prefs. If and when I have the opportunity of comparing them directly to Theta Citadels, or JRDG 312, I may be able to confirm and hone my opinion of them, or instead recant. |
Hmmm, looks like I'll have to start mentioning that I trained as a classic music composer (Grins!) |
Gents, whilst this is, uhrn. . . 'fascinating', we may want to migrate any further Spectron meta discussion to an appropriate Spectron-related thread. G. |
Yes, rafael, this thread is very appropriate for discussing comparative opinions and even speculations of Bel canto Ref 1000 performance, as it may relate to other amplifiers of any class, including class D devices. The rest is best moved elsewhere. G. |
I will be starting to break in a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk2 monos very shortly. I will post my findings on Audiogon in the form of a new review thread after I reach the 1000 hours breakin mark. I won't be able to compare to the Mk.1 version because I do not have the older version at hand. I will use the JRDG 312 as a benchmark instead. Guido |
See my review of the Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk.2 monoblock amplifier just posted on issue No. 43 of Positive Feedback Online. Yes, IMO, this is an example of an excellent and very musical high power amplifier at a Real World price, regardless of underlying technology.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/bel_canto_ref1000.htm |
Thank you guys, much appreciated. It is pretty clear to me that switching mode amplification is coming into its own, at a variety of pricepoints, with some leading products that do not owe any apologies to anyone for not containing 'traditional' technologies. |
Thank you Kiwi, in answer to your questions,
I prefer the Furutech Evo IIs to PCs and speaker wires to the Cardas Golden Ref wires that I had in the system, both with JRDG 312 and Bel cantos, prior to starting to write the review. As the effect of the wiring swap was common to both JRDG 312 and Bel canto, I removed the issue from the review equation. I may discuss it in a future article on the Furutech wires.
As I assert in so many words in the conclusion, the R1K Mk.2s are remarkable and engaging devices. Perhaps I should have also mentioned that there were one of a relatively small number of amplifier that I enjoyed at RMAF in 2008. Their impressive ability to expose harmonic complexity is discussed both in the sections on the Poroscina performance and the quasi Tuvan throat song of the bariton in Regnantem Sempiterna.
Illustration of the amps' excellent staging and imaging is found in the Krall and in the Yo Yo Ma paragraphs, although I am not sure what a stage a mile deep would sound like, regardless of reproduced music or standard live venues.
The authority and transient ability of the amps is also excellent, as I discuss in the cello work, in the conclusion, and I believe also in the section on Krall, in spite of some minor quibbles.
The Bel Cantos break in relatively quickly for ICEpower amps. They stabilized after approximately 500 hours, which is when any residual leanness was removed, and they reached maximum top to bottom frequency extension and harmonic congruence. While some leanness and foreshortened treble was in evidence prior to them settling down completely, by the time I wrote the review I found them to be very well balanced across the spectrum, except for some minor and only occasional exhuberant flares in the mid bass region. However, as you point out correctly, I do admittedly belong to the school of moderate musical neutrality, and I do not typically enjoy more than the gentlest trace of 'warmth' in a device. G. |
