I posted several months ago seeking recommendations for hi-rez, highly focused power cords in the tradition of the TG Audio Silver but with greater warmth or body. I did acquire a pair of Fusion Audio Enchanters and a VD Nite Platinum from the responses to my inquiry. However, after changes in amps, cd player, interconnects, and new Porter Ports, I find myself in need of advice again on the same matter. My system presently is: A Consonance Droplet 5.0 run directly into a Wyred 4 Sound ST 500 driving a pair of custom Legacy Focus clones using Eton drivers/midbass, metal dome mids & tweeters/NHT woofers. Both components are plugged into a PS Audio P 600 equipped with Porter Ports. I have an Enchanter plugged into both the power regenerator and the CDP and a Wolff Gain with Oyaide Palladium/Gold plugs on the amp. Interconnects (balanced) are either Sunny Cables 1000's or Jungson Golden Dragons. Speaker cables are Anti-Cables which I run directly into the speakers/crossovers bypassing binding posts.
My system is very detailed with very good focus and staggering dynamics. With good recordings, all is well and I'm quite satisfied. However, on some (many) recordings, horns, piano, and some guitar can some across aggressively. It has been recommended I replace the Oyaide plugs. Perhaps I will. What I would like are some recommendations on hi-rez, highly focused power cords that are to the laid back and warm side. I really liked the VD Nite Platinum but, it was too upfront for my system. Price is a factor in that I would like to spend $600 or less on the used market. Thanks in advance.
I have no idea what power cord fits this equation.
I'm just posting so I can check back easily later on what others might recommend. also the Wired 4 Sound is a device I have interest in.
When you say that these instruments come across "aggressively", what does that mean exactly? Are things just too hot on the top end? Is there graininess or sibilence or other kinds of audible distortions?
How do you know that a different power cord is the solution? Sounds like you have the system pretty doctored up already in regards to electrical power. have you tried stripping out all or some combo of the tweaks to see what that does?
Do you have another source besides the Consonance to compare that might sound different?
Off the cuff, I'm suspicious of the CD direct into Wyred combo. A different tube or two in this path, via DAC and/or pre-amp or alternate tubes in the Consonance, if possible, might help, but that is just a gut feel on my part.
I agree with MrTennis, I don't know how you can get warm and laid back combined with hi resolution and focus. I've never heard the combo (at least to the highest degree) in any cable I've ever tried. Now, if you're willing to compromise on hi resolution and focus there are many cables that will help.
Sorry, I might have read your post too quickly, but what I heard was that you want to keep the resolution you have and add a tad bit more warmth to the sound. Not necessarily a softening of the top end as much as a cleansing of the top end and perhaps a tad more midrange/midbass warmth.
The Kaplan copper power cord will add this bit of warmth for you, and perhaps add some additional transparency as a bonus.
The Kaplan conditioners and power cord combo might assist even further with a cleansing of the top end by reducing further AC related grain.
However, you will need to try them in several places (amp, source, preamp) to see where they would work best and do the most good. There is probably one component in the mix that is the primary source of this unwanted grunge.
I don't think anyone will be able to answer the question for you because the sound will be a product of the interaction of the cord and your components. I think that cords do matter but I am not sure that their sound will be the same with different units.
Well, thanks for the responses so far. I've heard warm and laid back with good focus and pretty good resolution from a Threshold SA 3.9e I had a few years back so I know it exists and it doesn't matter whether it seems to be a contradiction or not. My experience tells me it does exist. I know it may have lacked the highest degree of resolution and that's fine. I'm not presently looking to increase my system's resolution. I just want to take the edge off the midrange. I believe something less forward might do the trick. I just don't want to dumb down my sound to get there. I know everything is system dependent and that miniscule changes can significantly tilt the sound. Still, if you know of a hi-rez, well focused power cord to the warm side that isn't foward and might take the edge off of a hot midrange (horns, piano, and some guitar on already hot recordings), please advise. Those who wish to tell me such is a contradiction, please don't waste your time or mine. Thanks!!!!
Bob Thanks for the recommendation on the Kaplan cords. I think my top end is very clear. The Wyred is almost reticent in this area while the Consonance is pristine with good recordings. My only complaint is some bite on midrange forward instruments like some horns and piano on SOME recordings. Do you feel the Kaplans would be a good choice to tame this effect? I've talked with Kurt at Fusion Audio about an all copper Enchanter. Still thinking about that.... Thanks again, Bob.
Jgiacalo What JPS cords have you heard? I had a pair of the balanced Superconductor II's a few years back. They certainly had a nice "organic" quality to them with no edge whatsoever but, I felt they were lacking in focus. That might be because I had replaced a pair of Nordost Quattro Fils with the JPS and Nordost have excellent focus. Have you tried the Kaptovators? Thanks
Still, if you know of a hi-rez, well focused power cord to the warm side that isn't foward and might take the edge off of a hot midrange (horns, piano, and some guitar on already hot recordings), please advise.
I don't think that such a thing exists, not because the sonic characteristics you are seeking are contradictory, but because, as Stanwal stated and you acknowledge, "everything is system dependent."
And also because the sonic differences between power cords can be expected to be subtle, elusive, and inconsistent, even as judged on a specific system, depending on line voltage, noise conditions, on-going aging of other system components, source material, seasonal temperature changes, and other variables.
And finally, as Mapman asked, "how do you know that a different power cord is the solution?"
I was looking for a P/C to help warm up my substitute CDP (Raysonic 168) there was always a "thinness" to the mids and highs. I had been using VD David 2.0 but it exaggerated the lean forward sound so I pulled it and put the "stock" cord in. This helped some, so I like yourself started looking for a cord that was less forward with warmth and I like you thought it might be in the "lower" models. Because I have Purist cables that's where I started to look. By hapenstance I bought a Purist Musaeus plugged it into the Ray and WOW!!! It did everything I wanted and more, the more being a tighter bass, The Ray had that fullness I always felt it lacked, close to my CD3 MKll. In fact it was so improved that I wasn't in a rush to put the Calypso and CD3 MKll back into the system. It's in your price range, retail $445!! Call up Albert Porter( Porterhouse Audio) and see what he can do.
Hi Samhar I had heard some of the Purist cables were voiced in this manner. I may look for a Musaeus on the used market (hate getting my backside drilled on resale value after paying full price new). What higher ups have you heard in the Purist line that continue with this sonic signature? Thanks
A1 I don't know if a different power cord is THE solution but, I know that's where I'm willing to look first. I could change any component or cable and get closer or further to/from my ideal. All the variables you mention are certainly valid but I want to do something and I think moving around power cords is the easiest way given the satisfaction I feel with my other components/cables. I'm also open to trying a gold plated outlet or pulling the Oyaide palladium/golds and trying something else. I not the DIY type though so that option is less appealing. I think I'll see where this thread goes before I pursue that option. Thanks.
Hi, I have a PAD Aqueous Anniversary on the Calypso and thought it might not be what I'm looking for with the CDP's (maybe a little to big a presentation), the CD3 MKll is back in the system with the Calypso . The Musaeus had a similar effect with the CD3 MKll but to a slightly lesser degree. I'll get another Aqueous Anniversary P/C for comparison but I think I've got It right for now. FWIW I didn't expect the effect to be as big as it is and 180* from the VD David 2.0. I have used the VD in three different systems and it had a similar effects on all three, overly dynamic, big separations within the soundstage,fast attack fast decay and a little bright and thin.
one of the problems with using adjectives is that they may be open ended, lacking precision.
such words have no universally accepted definition.
experience of sound is so subjective that there is likely to be disagreement as to whether or not a prpduct can be described in a certain way.
i think the terms, "warm", "laid back", "hi rez" and "focus", need to be defined. i sense a combination of a desire for accuracy (focus) and coloration (warmth). such a combination is indeed not possible.
Evidently you aren't familiar with the sound we are discussing (lucky you!) or semantics wouldn't need to enter into the discussion deviating away from the OP's post and into some quadrant of your mind.
"i think the terms, "warm", "laid back", "hi rez" and "focus", need to be defined. i sense a combination of a desire for accuracy (focus) and coloration (warmth). such a combination is indeed not possible."
"My only complaint is some bite on midrange forward instruments like some horns and piano on SOME recordings. Do you feel the Kaplans would be a good choice to tame this effect?"
All I can tell you is what the Kaplan cords did for my system. As others have said, your mileage may vary. I found that on certain recordings my top end seemed a bit screechy and forward. It seemed to be very open and detailed otherwise, and was very good on good recordings. I put a Kaplan copper cord on my DAC and on my Amp and that screetchiness is now gone. The music is detailed and flowing and the bit of grunge that I heard is now gone.
As a bonus I also found there was more openness and air now than before. I thought it was open before, but the cords improved that aspect even more. It sounds cliche, but I now heard what I didn't know was missing before.
Good luck with your search, but you will never know for sure unless you try different cords in your rig and hear them for yourself.
Sorry for the rant MR T, you have two people who's opinions I respect agreeing with you. I think in this instance "laid back" is used to describe the soundstage presentation not the sound. Like I said if you haven't had this problem then it may seem like a contradiction but in real world experiences (bad) it makes perfect sense.
Lcherepkai, I'm using the Superconductor 2 and FX ICs, Superconductor Petite bi-wire speaker cables and the AC and Digital power cords and have not noticed any loss of focus. Actually, I have quite a pit of focus without being overly analytical. I've tried cables from Kimber, Tara, Synergistic, Silver Audio, Harmonic and a few others and find the JPS the best match for my all tube system. The Kaptivators are a bit pricey for me.
An easy and cheap thing to try with low risk might be a DNM Reson IC between CD and amp.
I've used these effectively in the past to help take the edge off digital compared to Harmonic Technology Truth Link and MIT ICs, for example. They have that warmer, mellow, and refined "british" sound to them compared to most cables.
They can be had for well under $100 even new usually. If you didn't like them , you could sell them or hold them for future application if/when a change is needed without taking a big hit.
Might just be the inexpensive ingredient needed to add to the "soup" to make it taste just right!
While I still think finding one cable that is both maximally focused and detailed and consequently maximally warm and laid back an impossibility (this would be the perfect cable!), I do think you can achieve this system wide. A cable may be able to help you here.
I now understand Lcherepkai is trying to acheive this sonic signature system wise. I would second Samhar, the PAD cables are both warm and detailed, not so focused, the Dominus being the best I've tried in the line, the Ferox version would likely be your best choice, the Museus and Venustas could also work.
And yes, I've found the Oyaide's to be forward sounding in my system. The Porter Ports are more laid back, more distant soundstaging.
Mapman---I can take most of the edge off using Golden Dragon interconnects but they loose a significant amount inner detail and focus to the Sunny Cable DX 1000's. The Sunny's remind me of Nordost Quattro Fil but with more extension on top and a fuller & richer midrange. I love the inner detail and image focus these cables bring to the mix. Would you consider the DNM's comparable with regards to detail/resolution and image focus? Do the DNM's come balanced? Thanks Mapman.-----------Lyle
SNS----Would you consider the Dominus laid back or relaxed? The metal dome mids only seem to bite when the mids are pushed forward in the mix (and recorded a bit to the hot side already). I have a lateral mosfet amp with a laid back midrange and this amp never seems to bite but, it lacks the resolution of the Wyred ST 500. It works well in the A/V room. Would you try pulling the Oyaides before going on this cable quest? If so, what plugs would you go with to maintain the resolution and focus as much as possible while allowing the sound to "relax" a bit? Thanks so much SNS------Lyle
Would you consider the DNM's comparable with regards to detail/resolution and image focus?
Unfortunately, the best answer I can give is it depends.
It's a synergy thing that will vary from configuration to configuration I have found, so no way to know for sure without trying.
They are a very minimalist design in regards to materials used though and therefore easy and inexpensive to try.
Do the DNM's come balanced?
No, not that I am aware of.
Here is a link to some commentary on these that I think is a fair assessment:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/3cables.html
In general they work best I have found in situations where the music has a bit of an edge in the mid to upper ranges that needs to be taken off for whatever reason. The other ICs I use (Harmonic tech and MIT) are more likely to draw attention to the same.
The Dominus is relaxed for sure, laid back, I'm not sure what you mean by that term, I think of laid back and relaxed as the same thing. If you mean laid back soundstaging, I would say a neutral depth of soundstage.
I would pull the Oyaides for sure, they make a large soundstaging difference in my setup. The Porter Ports should diminish that forward sound you speak of. They won't really take the bite away, however, sounds like a tonality issue, IC's and speaker cables make more differnce here.
Almost forgot, the VH Audio AirSine power cords also provide the sound you're looking for, warm, relaxed and top flight resolution, these are my preferred cable at the moment. These are also quite a deal compared to the higher line PAD cables.
I'm not familiar with your IC's. The anti-cables you're using on your speakers are certainly relaxed. Have you tried these as IC's, could be just what you need.
Hey folks---just heard from Virtual Dynamics and they recommended I simply tighten all the screws/bolts on my drivers and, you know what, that took a significant amount of bite out of my system. I'm still interested in that laid back or relaxed, warm, highly focused, hi-rez power cord that I started this thread with but, I'm a little less motivated now. If there are no more recommendations, I would like to thank all who have offered REAL and WORTHWHILE advice and alternatives. It's so nice to have such helpful audiophiles offer up their experience rather than combing through dozens of reviews hoping to find the right cable or piece of equipment. Thanks again to all. Lyle Cherepkai
i think the ideal would be to "tune" one's system to achieve a balance between resolution and warmth. as i understand, warmth implies some attenuation in the upper midrange/treble region coupled with a slight (?) peak in the upper bass/lower midrange region. any deviation in frequency response does detract from resolution.
however, a stereo system can be sufficiently resolved and yet have some color. does this make sense ?
now, finding a power cord to accomplish this is indeed difficult. i could not recommend one because i have not experienced a line cord which is subtractive and additive at the same time.
Hi Tvad-----Read a little on the Emotion and sounds promising and not too expensive. A couple questions: would you characterize the sound as relaxed? Also, how would you characterize the soundstage? laidback, neutral, or forward. I need something to the relaxed/laidback side. Does the emotion fit the bill? Thanks for your input Tvad.------Lyle
I just received an email with the word "LESSLOSS' and nothing else. Anyone want to offer an opinion on this power cord within the context I've previously mentioned? Thanks. Lyle
Sns & Tvad----If I could trouble both of you one more time, please. I "need" a more relaxed cord or laid back in a perspective sense to take the edge/bite out of the mids on some horns, piano,......but what really gets me into the sound experience is a highly focused soundstage where I can clearly identify the individual sounds both instrumental and ambient including the air of the recording venue. I use the TG Audio Silver as a reference for this quality as it presents sounds very vividly in my system. However, that's all that it did right in my system. Still, that experience has left me wanting that quality in all my cables. How highly would you rate the VH Audio Airsine, the Kubala Emotion, and the PAD Museaus and Dominus cords with regards to focus of the image or sharpness of image outlines? Thanks so much for taking the time to help me out.------Lyle
Tvad has the ratings correct. Funny you should mention image sharpness and ambience. I recently replaced the MIT PPMFX capacitors in my Joule Electra preamp with Jantzen Z-Superior caps. While I am hearing improvements in all sonic parameters, image focus and ambience are absolutely astounding after this change!
Many cheap caps sound smeared and hard, quality caps reduce this by a much greater amount than cables, tubes and other tweaks IMO. If you are willing to change out the caps this may be your answer, this may also cost much less than all the cable changes.
I just checked out your amp, not familiar with it previously. It appears to use Wima and Muse electrolytic caps, those are good electrolytics, sill not up to good film caps. Wyred 4 Sound (Cullen circuits) does mods, check with them for possible upgrades in caps.
I also can't imagine that amp being responsible for the majority of your problem. ICE based amps are realatively warm, not biting. Could be your speakers, specifically those Eton metal dome tweeters.
It sounds to me that you are looking at a K-S Emotion or a PAD Aqueous Anniversary or Dominus cord. Both of these are laid back and relaxed. IMHO the Emotion sounds a tad more 'natural' harmonically, while the PAD cords will offer a tad more bass.
Anyone (with good feedback) want to do a cable swap? I'd be interested in a 3'-6' Emotion or Dominus for a 4' or 5' Fusion Audio Enchanter. I may include some cash toward the Dominus. Thanks-------Lyle
Lyle, taking a closer look at your system it seems to me (IMHO) that the weak links regarding midrange forwardness could be the anti-cables (great for the price but outclassed in your system, IMO) and the metal dome speakers. In general, solid core cables made of a single gauge have a "preferred" range of frequencies where they deliver the most dynamics. That's why better louspeaker cables use multiple conductors and multiple gauges in order to spread-out the "spotlight" frequencies. Since you can not easily change the metal speakers, I suggest that you try better speaker cables (I like Van den hul Inspiration, VDH Supernova and Tara Labs Air, Kimber 8TC if budget is a concern) and a Fusion Enchanter CU power cord. The copper-based PC plus "musical"speaker cables will nicelly flll-in the lower-midrange and make your system more even-handed from upper bass to upper midrange, you will hear a less forward/fatiguing midrange presentation. I hope this helps
Casouza----You're right about the speaker cables. I only use these (and I use the smaller gauge anti-cables) so I can bypass the binding posts on my speakers (I don't have any presently) and connect directly to the crossovers. Originally, I had the crossovers pulled out and I ran anti cables from each driver out of the speaker to the crossovers located behind my amp and I had these connected with Electraglide Silver Ribbon speaker cable (Goertz Silver ribbons). That certainly sounded better but the EG cables were quite short. Eventually, I would like to install a couple pairs of Eichman binding posts and then go after better speaker cables but that is a long term project. For the moment, this is the best, temporary fix. I'll probably upgrade the crossovers at that time. Oh, this is a never ending battle isn't it? I have had Kimber 4TC before and I like the anti-cables better. I think they have better detail and are more palpable. Still, you're right about upgrading this weak link. Thanks.--Lyle
Well, I'm waiting on an Oyaide SWO GX (gold plated outlet) to arrive and see if that takes the edge out of my system. If not, I'll probably acquire either/both a Kubala Emotion and/or a Purist Dominus. My system consists of a CDP, an amp, and a power regenerator. Where would it be best to install either cable? Thanks all----------Lyle
The power conditioner feeds the most components, try there first.
I'm also not sure the Oyaide SWO GX is going to give you the more recessed soundstage you want. All the Oyaide's are more forward sounding than the Porter Ports in my system. You want laid back, natural, the Porter Ports are it. The Oyaide GX will be warmer tonally than the other Oyaides, this may be what you're looking for.
Update---I wanted to try a gold plated outlet to see if it would take some of the edge out of my system (only presents itself on some "hot" recordings with certain instruments) and found a SWO-GX and and R1 from Oyaide used here on A'gon. The GX pushed the soundstage forward and made the problem worse. However, the R1 has made a significant improvement. Soundstaging distance is about midway between the slightly laid-back Porter Port and the upfront Oyaide SWO GX. Detail is excellent as is tone with a relaxed feel that has taken 80-90% of the bite out of my system. I'm still going to install either a KS Emotion or Purist Dominus pc soon. Thanks for the advice!
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