Near field speaker setup

Why do you find this surprising? The #1 key to imaging is simultaneous arrival. Speakers in phase and perfectly equidistant is mainly what does it. This is why you can hear imaging from a laptop.

Move the speakers too far apart and two bad things happen. One is the direct sound from the speakers fades relative to room reflections. The other is the sound coming more from the sides starts to be like headphones. Instead of being in front of you where evolution is telling your brain it should be it starts to sound like its inside your head. So of course the effect starts to break down. 

This already is more than enough information to figure out the rest. Anything sound reflective competes with the direct sound from the speaker and diminishes the effect. The bigger and flatter and harder the more reflective and worse it is. This is why its so important to keep speakers away from side and front walls. 

Or if they are small and close then the same goes for the desk top. Or in a living room situation a coffee table is a lousy thing to have.

Equipment rack, TV screen, same deal. Take a look at this https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
Front and center between speakers is the worst place, so the amp is down low on the floor and back farther than the speakers and there is no rack, except the turntable stand, which is located even further back and off to the side. 

There’s a huge amount more that goes into getting crazy good you are there imaging but having the speakers far away isn’t really an advantage at all, at least not in any way I can think of. And I am all over this like white on rice.

What he said

Oh, and some isoacoustics under the LS50’s might help everything you already love about them 👍

Curious wha amp. are you using?  I have similar setup to yours, and am very impressed with the sound.  I’m using a class D ncore amp.  I think the LS 50’s sound especially good nearfield because of the coaxial drivers.  Other speakers I’ve tried in this configuration haven’t been as impressive.

I had exact experience with harbeth shl5 .
Amp can inlfuence such image which you described
Solid state top amps like luxman,technics,etc..from japan does this effect too

Near field listening,such as you have,eliminates room interaction. ( for the most part) 

My office, small bookshelf B&W with a sub in the middle, equidistant close triangle, direct sound prior to reflections, imaging is terrific. Big music system downstairs, bigger drivers, horns, bigger room, very nice imaging, but not as precise as my perfect close triangle upstairs.

I would encourage you to add a self-powered sub, not loud bass, just enough for bass extension, and a large benefit of self powered subs: removes the need for the smaller mains to try to do low bass, easier on the main amp not trying to do low bass also.

Many people make the mistake of going for too much bass, muddying up their mids.

Thanks for all the feedback. Nice setup millercarbon, that took a while to drink in! Im onboard with the "every little thing" in sum does matter.

Im using an apple laptop -> Tidal -> Yggdrasil DAC -> Naim Nait 5i setup. Very happy with the way it sounds but for some reason in this hobby my mind keeps wanting more, after partaking in some extra curricular activities :), I moved in very close with this system as I describe its crazy the way the music sounds, hard to see how it can get better and Im certain it can since my system is not that high end.
I'd like to move to tubes and been looking at a PrimaLuna setup. I have a bottlehead headphone tube amp with sennheiser hd600 (pretty basic stuff) and that sounds incredible as well. Plan on fooling around with room acoustics as described from some of you today.
Anyway, having a fun time with all this hope you all are too, thanks again!

-Richard

Hi OP,

What I want to know is, why does it sound so good this close?

You may have seen one of my dozen or so suggestions that Audiophiles move their chair so they can hear their speakers up close. 

The difference between that and what you hear at the listening position is how the speaker interacts with the room.

I often suggest this as a way for audiophiles to think about whether their problem is before the amp, or after it. The near field listening greatly shifts the amount you hear of direct sound, vs. reverberant.  It's analogous to increasing the signal to noise.  This is why speaker designers often put microphones 1/4" or less to the drivers, so they can ignore what the room and baffle are doing and get quasi-anechoic measurements.

I find it a very good diagnostic tool for audiophiles who find problems with tonal balance, or warmth or imaging.  If the problems go away at the near-field, the issue is acoustics in nature. If the problem remains, we know it's at the speaker or before.

Thanks for all the feedback. Nice setup millercarbon, that took a while to drink in! Im onboard with the "every little thing" in sum does matter.

Im using an apple laptop -> Tidal -> Yggdrasil DAC -> Naim Nait 5i setup. Very happy with the way it sounds but for some reason in this hobby my mind keeps wanting more, after partaking in some extra curricular activities :), I moved in very close with this system as I describe its crazy the way the music sounds, hard to see how it can get better and Im certain it can since my system is not that high end.
I’d like to move to tubes and been looking at a PrimaLuna setup. I have a bottlehead headphone tube amp with sennheiser hd600 (pretty basic stuff) and that sounds incredible as well. Plan on fooling around with room acoustics as described from some of you today.
Anyway, having a fun time with all this hope you all are too, thanks again!

-Richard

Look real close at my system. Its hard for most to fully appreciate because we are so bombarded with the importance of big box components, but the little things you hardly see actually account for a lot of the great sound. They also are extremely cost effective and universal. When you upgrade the system with new speakers you get rid of the old ones but when you upgrade with something like Cable Elevators, BDR Cones or Synergistic HFT those things stay and are used and make your system shine for the rest of your life, without ever spending a penny more on them.

That said, I would be looking at Raven. Okay technically I am looking at Raven. https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/nighthawk-mk3-tube-amplifier/ Having had a couple tube integrateds and knowing they are the sweet spot in audiophile amps I did of course look at PL. Their main problem being China. And that is one very big problem. Sound wise they are probably close enough to come down to side by side. They are in other words well within tweaking range of each other, which again gives the edge to Raven.

right mate the Raven looks good at aboot 4K...anything in the under 1K bracket for the lowend hifi?

Hey canibefrank,

I hear you on that, the Raven looks sweet. Believe it or not Steve Guttenberg, aka The Audiophiliac (check him out on YouTube) raves about this lowend tube amp, the Reisong A10. Ive been thinking about pulling the trigger on it just for fun.

https://www.amazon.com/BOYUU-Hi-Fi-Stereo-Amplifier-Single-end/dp/B07L4GL63N/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1D6H0VV1NQFVX&dchild=1&keywords=reisong+a10&qid=1585588756&sprefix=reisong%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-1

@rgartner 
thanks so much. that is exactly what I am looking for.... all i need is some Klipsh and I am good.

As well as good room placement, the coaxial drivers of the KEFs also contribute acoustically to nearfield listening

one other suggestion would be to put the LS 50’s on stands or a surface below the level of your ears.  They sound better below ear level.

I bought a pair of JBL305 monitors a few yaers ago and moved them all over to get the "best" imaging. They sounded bloody cracking when I put them about even with the armrests at each end of a small couch and pointed directly at my ears ... maybe 20-25 degrees equidistant trainagle.
crack a lackin’