Thanks for sharing your experiences. Exactly how did you make the comparison? I assume you listened to the record, did the treatment and then played the record again. I can only guess at the time lapse between playings. As a further experiment I suggest you repeat the process but leave out the demag part. Even with no "treatment" the record may sound slightly different.
My venture into the world if demagnitizing vinyl. Your results may vary.
Ok, I have been using my hand held demagnitizer (tape bulk eraser) on these particular versions of records in my collection that have accentuated treble ( The Who- "Who's Next" MCA masterphile, "Tommy", "Sell Out" , Ted Nugent "CSF" and the Dixie Dregs "Industry Standard" and the initial results are in. YES! a resounding yes. Positive. Eye opening or should I say ear opening. At first I was skeptical having heard about it from a Michael Fremer review about 8 years ago. The curiosity finally overwhelmed me. Boy I wish I had known and tried this earlier. The single best tweek I have experienced bar none. After treatment every note was the most profound note ever struck until the next one and the next one with me anxiously waiting for that next note. It was like analog on acid with me hearing a whole new sonic landscape. I can now imagine how it is justified by spending 3 grand on a dedicated device. My procedure is as follows with a Radio Shack bulk eraser. To protect the record I laid it on an album sleeve with another sleeve on top to protect the record to get as close as possible with the unit. I used the unit as I would on a tape deck with being slow and steady. I also did both sides.
Ok ok I'm being serious now. Back to earth and not the way over the top and dramatic description as the above. I might (BEING THE KEY WORD) might have heard a high frequency mellowing on CSF and the Dixie Dregs. Actually on CSF it was a little more than maybe. I'm a little embarrassed saying that and that leaves me open to ridicule. That perplexes me. I know its far out there in pseudo science land but I think or maybe I thought I heard something subtle. Definitely it's not a slam dunk case. The science states that there is practically nothing on the record that would react to any degree with a demagnitizer. I might try a couple more. I would hope some fellow Audiogoners would have an open mind and see if they have any positive results with the procedure above with some treble accentuated records.
I also have diminished hearing and it was hard to tell.
Oh well it was fun.
Ok ok I'm being serious now. Back to earth and not the way over the top and dramatic description as the above. I might (BEING THE KEY WORD) might have heard a high frequency mellowing on CSF and the Dixie Dregs. Actually on CSF it was a little more than maybe. I'm a little embarrassed saying that and that leaves me open to ridicule. That perplexes me. I know its far out there in pseudo science land but I think or maybe I thought I heard something subtle. Definitely it's not a slam dunk case. The science states that there is practically nothing on the record that would react to any degree with a demagnitizer. I might try a couple more. I would hope some fellow Audiogoners would have an open mind and see if they have any positive results with the procedure above with some treble accentuated records.
I also have diminished hearing and it was hard to tell.
Oh well it was fun.
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Elon Musk Tweeted this on august 28th: “All of physics is either impossible or trivial. It is impossible until you understand it, and then it becomes trivial.” --E Rutherford So, right now, the demagnetizing is seemingly like it is impossible. If the mechanism, if there is any..if it is discovered -- then it will become trivial. At such a point...the wanky out of control dogmatic and linear minded will focus their guns of personal desire and projections..they will find someone else to focus on or punish, for investigating or proposing the impossible. As the issues are not in science or physics, the issues are in the people who are in it or observing it. the problem at hand has nothing to do with logic, or the proposal of the idea of scientific investigation.. the problem is all in the area of human faults. Like Max Planck said: "Science advances -funeral by funeral." Meaning, when the old guard who refuse to embrace, understand or cognate the new (whether they are dense or whatever the cause)..when they finally die..and are put in the ground -then the world can move forward. FYI, Both Planck and Rutherford were absolutely fundamental to the science and physics that we understand today. They were well familiar with the insanity of denial in their own areas of research and investigation. As for this post: Don’t project any of one's self into it, and then put that self made chip on one's shoulder and then wail, scream, and rail against it. As that would be crazy, wouldn’t it.... |
teo, what can I say. That is a rather long explanation to justify someones perception of sound quality which humans are notoriously poor at doing in this fashion. On the other hand vinyl is in no way shape or form magnetizable so in waving a demagnetizer over it you are subjecting an object that can not possibly be magnetized to an oscillating magnetic field at 60 Hz doing absolutely nothing other than exercising the arm. Blueranger, save your demagnetizer for your tape heads and wonder at how your brain can trick you into believing something that can not possibly be true. |
He’s observing, testing, and attempting to discern. Which is more than any observer here can say for you. From another recent post: People are born into projection. Logic is not a given, it is thing that people have to learn. It would be trivial to take his observation and propose a very valid set of points that make it scientifically real. The causal points and the end results, all explained, in detail, down to their very roots. The question is, in this case, would the ones who rail against the initial observation and question, do they have the capacity to cognate the complex sum total of the answer set? The noises they make in the proposal of the observation and question, says, invariably...no. |
Teo, please reread the OP‘s opening statement and note that he himself is dubious that what he is hearing is an improvement. Meantime, no matter how many ancient philosophers and important scientists waxing philosophical you care to quote, there is such a thing as objective fact. Fact is there are no Ferrous materials in vinyl. Another fact is there are no forces around an LP that could possibly magnetize any Ferrous content of an LP, if there were any. And finally, using a tape head demagnetizer to demagnetize an LP is a tricky business. Others have shown in the past how improper use of a demagnetizer can actually magnetize an object. We don’t know that the OP was using his demagnetizer in such a fashion as to achieve demagnetization. Therefore, we don’t know that any effect he thinks he hears is due to demagnetizing anything. Fremer quoted Furutech’s claim that there is iron in the black pigment in LPs. Furutech has measured a little more than 600 nanoteslas of magnetism in an LP and a little less than 600 nT after use of their demagnetizer. That’s a very low magnetic field before you demagnetize, and a very slightly even lower magnetic field after demagnetizing. Whether that can make an audible difference is up to the observer to decide. And finally, why is it that folks like you who wish to believe in things that for others defy belief are always so angry about it? |
Warning. Do not do this with your record on the TT. You will ruin your cartridge. Which you would know.... how? Only if you ruined yours, I would say. Otherwise.... Look at my system. Please. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 There in image #10 you will see an actual Radio Shack Bulk Tape Eraser sitting in its usual spot on top of my modded power conditioner. Bought in 1993 or 4 its been plugged into that outlet for years because from there it reaches almost all the cables and turntable. Its used not only on records before just about every play but over the cables usually at least once per night and always before playing any of my White Hot Stampers. Its kind of interesting this post of yours because these Radio Shack units are kind of hard to find these days. When I looked last year there was only one for sale on the web, it was $90 (they were only $20 back in the day) and I haven't seen one since. Do you actually have one? Anyway they do work. Mine is used on almost every side, and right there on the platter, and my Koetsu hasn't been the least bit "ruined" by it. Oh well. One more thing- were you writing to inform, or entertain? Its hard to tell if your post is a joke or serious. If serious you ruined it with the fake ruined cartridge story. If a joke, well comedy is maybe harder than it seems, eh? |
Miller carbon. I used a bulk eraser for my experiment. I ruined a Benz cartridge with running a Bedini CD clarifier to close to it. It took a while then the hum increased to annoying levels. I did trouble shooting in my system for 6 months. I switched cartridges and no hum. I deducted it was the clarifier/demagnitizer doing it. |
So you are demagnetizing your copper or silver cables, that also contain no iron? Interesting. Yes, it is very interesting. Mine was bought in the 90's to be used on CDs. Figured it was BS. CDs are after all polycarbonate, aluminum, what's to demagnetize? Even way back then though I had already learned a lot of seemingly crazy stuff actually does work and so I figured Radio Shack, $20, just take it back when it doesn't work. Only thing, it did work. Easy to hear. Friend bought one when he heard how well it works. Few years later someone said it works on records. Here we go again. See the pattern? Instead of dismissing every crazy idea I actually try them out whenever I can. Here's maybe one of the most valuable items of information for an audiophile to know: When you can't get a good explanation exactly why something works, it does not mean it doesn't work. It only means we can't explain it. |
I said "interesting". I didn't scoff or ridicule you. There is a company that successfully markets magnetized tubes through which you are supposed to run your AC cord and/or your interconnect, with a view to a positive effect while playing music. I think they also make a plug that runs AC through a magnet, or something like that. Their basic idea is controversial too but just about the opposite of demag on a static piece of cable which I assume you do when your system is not in use. There is another side to this lament of those who adopt them about rejecting tweaks that seem to make no sense. Sometimes the tweak actually does make no sense. I have no beef with whatever gets anyone through the night, and I would be happy to attend any demonstration of miraculous results. I prefer a good cognac, however. I will posit that subconscious bias has a more powerful effect than any of these fringe tweaks per se. If you want to hear a difference (consciously or not), it increases the chances you will, and vice-versa. Also, the reason we are all a bit crazy is that this hobby constantly demonstrates lack of logical outcome. |
The effect of subconscious bias is more powerful than any demagnetizer and is the usual explanation when no logical reason exists. It is a cesspool of illogical fancy. The route to an excellent system acknowledges this bias exists and limits resources to fundamental and necessary components of the highest caliber affordable. In other word stops wasting money on stupidity and buy a better amplifier. Lewm, I am having a glass of Remy XO in your honor:) |
Mijo, The talk of Porsches didn't really impress me, but if you are drinking Remy Martin XO, or any XO, then I am impressed. I am going with Kelt VSOP but would like to try their XO. An accommodating view of the tweak situation is even if the tweak is nonsensical, it is OK to do it, if it makes you think your system sounds better as a result. Because the hobby is about creating the illusion of reality, by any means affordable. |