My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Power cords are something that need to transfer power from the outlet. The power cords quality of copper is important, and so is the gauge for power amplifiers. What is a safe gauge for amplifier cords drawing a full 20 amps? 10 to 12 guage is enough, but you can buy power cords 7 gauge. The connectors just have to be designed to get the full power of the cable to the amplifier. Makes me wonder why there are power cords that are audiophile cords. The audiophile cords come up with some science that allow the company to charge crazy money. Seems to me that there are just filters built into the cable to change the sound. The designers of amplifiers want the best pure AC power thru copper to come into their powerful amplifiers. And then the amplifier takes care of that power. The best amp designs store enough power inside the amp, and don't stress the power cord at all. Does this wonderful amplifier want filtered power going into the amp from the wall? I would think not. But every amplifier you see at the shows have cables that cost as much as some equipment. I'm not saying that these cables don't change the sound, compared to a good standard cable design. What I'm saying is that these audiophile cables are filtering the sound before it hits the amplifier. This, in itself should not be what the amplifier is looking for. Now this is just an opinion from someone that believes in cables. Just not these $2,000 or more Power Cables. I call these audiophile cables a way of coloring the sound before reaching the amplifier.
Now the most important that you can do for your system is 2 dedicated 20 amp lines put into your sound room with quality outlets. The difference in sound will be amazing with the amplifier on one circuit, and the rest on the other 20 amp line. If you want the electrician to put Romex 10/3 wiring, you can have a bit of reserve power with Monoblock amps. The dedicated power lines are the best expense you can make. If you have funky power in your town, that you can try some of the high end power stations out there. I would take this advice on where to put your money. My workstation for my computer systems use a number of Uninterruptible Power Supplies (UPS) to get the AC power to sine wave levels. I used to live in a place where there were brownouts like mad. Now I live where the power grid doesn't overload. But any spikes or drops with computer equipment will wear your equipment out. And having battery backup when doing mission critical work on the computer is just as important as backup. But for my stereo system I use AVRs (automatic voltage regulators) for all the equipment other than the amplifier. I calculate how much power draw I want from each AVR and add the amount of them I deem using no more than 40% of the AVRs power envelope. Currently I use 2 of them from APC. They cost around $70 each and are so worth it to make sure there are no voltage drops or spikes going into your expensive equipment. Do you see how cheap these AVRs are? If it was an audiophile item, it would be $2,000. I can only say use your head when spending money. Just an example...... instead of expensive power cords..... get yourself a good streamer, or a better DAC.
I am not an authority on Power Cords. I just know the science, and have grown up with a Dad that was a wiring genius. I also spent 40 years myself in the industry of audio and being a moonlighting electrician with my Dad. He was an engineer for General Motors. We were wiring and building just about anything you could dream of. It just doesn't make sense to throw all that cash to go along with the audiophile community. It's a high quality copper wire going into the amp that is all it should be.
I have heard nothing but good stuff about the Don Sachs preamp. Using (4) 6SN7 tubes and rave reviews. I only wish that Don could put balanced out (XLRs) into the design. I have the Schiit Freya, and it has the (4) 6SN7 tubes as well, but I heard that it doesn't produce the fine sound of the Don Sachs. I would love to own one some day. And I'm also a Krell guy. I can only imagine the improvement in sound I would get with Don Sachs preamp.
lemonhaze, Thanks for your last post. I take your valid points to heart. Your posts were interesting, and I have learned from all of you. I shall remember your apt term, and apologize again for being an insultant at times. Nobody is going to audio heaven--we are all just trying to seek meaning and pleasure in our musical and audio pursuits. Peace.
@Notesaddict....I sent my Krell Duo 300 in for the XD upgrade last friday 12/7...they said I would get it back before Christmas..I am very anxious to hear the difference.I will post my impression.Please let me know what your impression is when you get yours back! All the best!
WC, just get the dawn Shunyata NR powercords and be done with it. They set the benchmark in the industry. Why take my word for it ? Well you want us to take your word on the Neoliths being the best electrostatics so that they justify the increased premium over the 15A. Neo followers and believers seems to agree with you and acknowledge it’s the best out there. So I guess they won’t have any problem with that post saying Shunyata pc set, just as the Neoliths, the audio benchmark in their own field... Oh no maybe those are just not expensive enough for them to be taken seriously 😗😗...
techno, I was at a buddys home some months back during the summer time, and we did a power cord shoot out between several top power cords, including the Shunyata Alpha. We both preferred the Audioquest Hurricane. It was tighter, faster, more extended at the top and bottom and just seemed to be more open. The Shunyata seemed a bit bloated, and slower. This was on a Levinson power amp. I am not suggesting that it would be superior in every case, because system matching is very important, but in this case the Shunyata lost. Jafox, many years ago ( in another galaxy ) I attended a seminar with a cable company ( Fulton cable, speaking of their Gold series speaker cables), and they were speaking about gauge of wires, and showing us, and playing us a system with these huge, monstrous cables. In layman's terms, they compared it to a garden hose ( or even a sink faucet ). The more you open the valve, the greater the water pressure. It sounded sensible at the time, and still does. But again, I only go by what my ears tell me. Enjoy ! MrD.
I'll repeat that all cables/cords are system dependent. Once again I've actually compared Shunyata Sigma NR and Alpha NR to Audioquest Hurricanes. I had the same results as MrD. Despite owing all Hurricane power cords, I must say they will be to stiff for some.
+1 on the Audioquest Hurricanes. I had a previous (previous to the Storm series) gen of power cord (NRG1000) from Audioquest and was not impressed. There's definitely something different in this series of cords, so I for one would not make a general statement on AQ power cords, based upon the cords previous to the Storm series. I'm also trying out the Cerious Technologies Graphene Matrix power cords right now (breaking them in), so I will eventually make the comparison between those and the Hurricanes.
Thanks for sharing experience with the forum. A lot of work and a lot of effort and it is kind of you to share. Just to throw my own anecdotal experience in here --
Everything you've written about the Pass X250.8 is true in my experience having lived with that amp for several years. It replaced a Pass X350.5 amplifier and was an upgrade in all sonic respects important to me. Now, I wasn't driving difficult speakers -- KEF 207/2 which are about 91dB/w/m efficient and don't present a particularly complex load to the amp -- so I never missed the additional power of the larger X350.5. Plenty of bass control, dynamic swing and great nuance and tonal saturation.
If you like the X250.8 let me suggest the X260.8 mono blocks as a significant upgrade. Power-wise they are so similar as to be negligible -- 250 wpc vs 260 wpc for the 260.8s. Into 4 ohms, double those figures. However, they stay in Class A operation longer than any of the X-series amps except the monster X600.8 monos. There is a good .pdf chart that can be downloaded at the Pass Labs website that details all the specifications for the X and XA series amplifiers.
I found them to thread the needle between the bass control and explosive dynamics of the X-series and the sweeter midrange and vividness of the XA amps. They run a little warmer than the X250.8 but don't have anywhere near the idle dissipation of the XA amplifiers while providing more instantaneous power into 4 ohm loads (which my current KEF Blade 2s are) than even the behemoth XA200.8s. And they are much less massive and expensive than most of the Pass XA amplifiers. So for my speaker choices, budget and the sonic presentation I value I couldn't be happier. But they may not be the ideal choice depending on someone else's circumstances and sonic preferences. They do deserve a listen and consideration on a short list if they at all fit your profile.
@steve_zettel .....Nice post about Pass....I had called about Pass awhile back and was told the x260.8 monos were an excellent match for my martin-logan stats.
@mikepaul -- Thanks very much. I'm glad you found it useful. I posted in response to the OP original post about amps before I looked at where the thread was currently and realized it has somehow turned into a debate about power cords! Best regards, Steve
Look at the number of pcs at or under $200., all claiming excellent wire, connectors, build and engineering construction. I have listened to quite a number, and each and everyone is different, and some, better than others ( all in my system ) I have had 2 manufacturers of pcs send my cables for my evaluation, with a disclaimer, as I was not to talk about, them, unless I " loved " them. I would enjoy the honor to evaluate grannyring's pc, but would require a 5 ft length. Enjoy ! MrD.
WC, I have to say that if aftermarket Power Cables are going to be bought, you have chosen the one that I would get. Seems very popular and good luck with these 6 guage behomoths. I like the pure copper connectors, too!
Alright men, everything is fired up and cooking. I’m going to sit down and listen music for about an hour with stock powercords. Then I’ll plug in both Monos with these powercords and listen again for an hour or so and finally I’ll plug in a third powercord which will go on the ref10.
mikepaul, I am 20 minutes south of Daytona and a 4 hr. drive north of wc. My lights have started to dim, and my system has lost all of its bass, as I am assuming his Block monos, with the Shunyata cables, are sucking up all of the juice throughout Florida. Enjoy ! MrD.
Initial impressions: more decay with instruments, things sound a tad cleaner with less floor noise. That said, I haven’t been like “wow let me run to the bank to pay for these cables” i will continue to play with them over the next few days. I will also go back to stock powercords on the amps and will try one on the preamp and see what happens.
WC, I'm very interested in your conclusions on these power cords. I am a believer in high end copper at a large gauge. EMI/RFI filtering could be a plus, if done right.
It’s a wrap for tonight. I’m getting tired which doesn’t allow me to do critical listening so I’ll do another evaluation tomorrow night when I’m more rested. So far, the improvement is definitely there but I may have been expecting for the change to be a little more drastic. Again, these are my preliminary findings and are by no means my conclusion on these cables.
WCSS, I have to commend you on your improved listening skills as your journey continues. There was a time when I think you would have passed judgement far too early and possibly dismissed these out of hand. Glad you are realizing that real evaluation on any new addition takes some time. Cheers
WC, you’ve got to put the NR on your DAC FIRST. Always dac and preamp first, because what is lost there cannot be reinstated later in your monoblocks .(down the chain)
The NR powercords will help you squeeze out the last bit of clarity, micro details, low noise floor and dynamics from your system. They will not flip it upside down.
Also, Shunyata pcs always take a couple of days to settle down. It is the Zitron circuit operating slowly to its full capacity, it takes time to charge up the dielectric around the conductors. (This is done by passing current into a conducting shield around the dielectric).
WC, "
So far, the improvement is definitely there but I may have been expecting for the change to be a little more drastic." Slight improvements is what high-end is all about. Once you get to a certain level, big night and day differences are very rare. It really comes down to are the differences your hearing worth the money?
To techno_dude's point, Audioquest told me, "in most systems upgrading the power cords on the source will have the most impact."
Sounds good techno. I will use one on the preamp. Unfortunately, these cables won’t work on my dac because they are a 20a connector on the end that plugs into the equipment.
Spinaker01, If I’ve learned anything through my journey is to not pass judgment so quickly and for me not to do too much critical listening when I’m tired.
Hello WC, I freely admit that I love Shunyata products.... In the past I have had a few series of Shunyata PCs in my system, including King Cobra CX series and Anaconda ZTron.... My experience is that they have reached 80% of their performance potential in my own system after about 350 hours of carrying currunt, and close to 100% at about 600 hours... When first I deployed them, they showed the typical limitations and restrictions of new cables.... Their behavior during break-in showed relatively significant performance fluctuations, with each cycle pointing higher, and cycling gradually smoothing out after the 200 hours mark. Like with so many audio products, patience proved to be golden with Shunyatas.
Although I’d love to try them for 600 hours, that’s not an option here. I have them for about 3-5 days max. It’s either sink or swim here. My amps are turned on the entire time and making the powercords work. They are drawing 1200 watts through these cables. If 1200 watts doesn’t do it then I’ll hsve to move on to wireworld platinum 7 powercords next time.
Don’t get me wrong, I do believe that some break in period is important but when we are talking a ridiculous amount of time then I think at that point it’s more psychological than anything. Your ears just get used to the sound and you are probably thinking tbr sound improved. If manufacturers believe that their product is best after 1,000 hours of use then they burn it in before they package the product so that the consumer gets a product nearly ready to be enjoyed. Hell, at the prices we are talking about here they should come with a gorgeous girl packed inside the box. Let’s be real.
Hello WC, my guess that after 3 to 5 days, the Sigmas won't sink.... May be not swimming powerfully either, but they will be happily paddling through musical waters.
As for manufacturers, unfortunately they do not have the financial bandwidth to afford immobilizing product for one month and a half before shipping.... They have not acquired yet the enormously patient wine maker's frame of mind.
I suspect that I might be a little bit resistive to mass self deception.... Several audio products that I have evaluated do not seem to have passed muster, no matter how long I have broken them in, in spite of my initial great hopes for them
Regardless, keep us posted on Sigmas... I have read so many good things about them.
I'm with WC on length of time before these cords sound their best. Not to say that cords don't settle over time, but Shunyata claims that their cord is already broken in due to their technology.
Guido: all companies at this price level only build product once it’s been ordered. This means that the inventory they are burning in has already been sold. It should be part of the final finished product. WHY WOULD ANYONE want their product to leave their factory working half @ss? Would you buy a Ferrari if you can’t feel the 800hp the moment you leave the dealer? How many Ferrari’s would sell if you were told you need to wait 36,000 miles before it gives you 800hp so in the meantime just drive around in 200 hp. Here’s your receipt for $300k sir.
I know cars a while back needed to be driven slower for the 1st 1000-1500 miles, as recommended from the manufacturer. My 2018 CRV had no stipulations of such, although I drive the speed limit, and rarely above. I have found, in my 50 years of audio, that each piece of gear, and this includes cables, requires some time to break in, and I know it is not my ears making this crap up. Besides tone smoothing out, the flow of the music seems to be more organic, " free flowing ", if you will. Bass, in particular, has better movement, momentum, articulation, rhythm and pace ( prat ). Yes, I said it. Anyway, enough about me and what I hear.....WC, as always, enjoy the ride. Still my favorite thread ! Enjoy ! MrD.
I take everyone’s feedback here with great pleasure. Nobody is wrong or right unless they give input on gear they’ve got no hands on experience with. I don’t doubt that you all can hear changes as you put 1,000 hours on gear but personally speaking I just haven’t heard any major changes. I can say I’ve heard changes within like the first 100 hours of use on some gear but after that I I don’t really hear much of a change. Again, keep bringing me your feedback and tips. I’m glad to apply it if applicable. Tonight I’m doing the powercord on the ref10 and go from there.
On a a different note, I’m itching to bring back a solid state preamp. I’m curious about the ayre kxr twenty since I got compared as just as good as the ref10.
Wc, BigDDesign, and all, I am glad to take the minority view.... Unfortunately, I can only talk about my own ears, what they have told me since I have being involved in music.
Whether its audio gear, pianos, cellos, bows, or steel strings for cellos.... I have experienced break-in time of various length, sometimes not too bad, sometimes excruciatingly long... Interestingly, I have not observed the phenomenon on Brass musical instruments such as my euphonium, flugelhorn, and cornets.
It is imperative that you put one NR on the DAC , before playing around on the rest of your gear. It is there that everything starts. Your Esoteric source deserves a at least an Alpha NR on it, best is another Sigma.
Understood techno. I will see if I can get hands on one. See my issue is that I feel somewhat embarrassed by not buying something when someone does the good deed of letting me demo 15k worth of cables. It’s not any dealer that will just hand you this type of cable and not ask you for a dime. I was told to just break the seal and take them home with me. No money needed. This is why I’ve spent a ton of money to try stuff out. However, I’m not gonna gamble with cables since they are harder to move. I must find ways of demoing cables until one convinces and then I pull the trigger on the spot.
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