My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

@yyzsantabarbara @thezaks  I"ll ask Rhondi when and where. I plan to travel to hear it. 

The issue is not whether the Stromtank or other battery/inverter makes inferior preamp A sound as good as superior preamp B.  The principle of power purity and transparency means that all components will sound better with the particular batter/inverter.  But the few reviews and Jay's experience show that the S-tanks have their individual sound.  If you want smoothness and absence of HF unpleasantness, you choose the S-2500, but if you want neutrality you choose the S-1000.  Unfortunately, this gets back to arbitrary tastes and colorations, just like any other component.  What is THE most transparent and pure battery/inverter?  No one yet knows--only comparative listening to several products will tell.

Folks,

The AC in my home has been out since Thursday. I’ve not been able to create more content because it’s 88F in my house with full blown humidity. Luckily my audio room has a split unit so it’s cool and my family can sleep in it.

Man, the service contractor said the coil went bad and i got an ac leak and now they are saying there is a part shortage due to COVID which could delay things!

I purchased a portable Frigidaire AC unit which seems to be doing a little bit but only in the living room area. The rooms are like saunas right now.

I should rethink this audio thing and consider doing ac service. There’s an entire hustle and mafia in south Florida when it comes to ac. The way global warming is going, AC business might be better than buying Bitcoin way back when.

Business ideas I've thought about:

AC service

Trucking company

Stripper (😂 -kidding)

Jay, Time to get a whole house generator. This will allow you to run everything including central and split AC units. Not sure if there is an audible difference listening to your system when running on generator power but at least you will have everything that you normally power with utility power. Generac, Kohler, Cummins are a few of the leading brands to consider. Check their specs as you would want AC power with a low harmonic distortion, under 5%. Cost ranges from $10-$15k. supplied and installed I estimate. I have a Generac portable which came in handy during the Sandy storm years ago. I am now considering an upgrade to a whole house unit. You could pick up a portable generator to get you through this outage. All but the biggest generators cannot run large AC units but at least you can have lights, refrigerator, Internet equipment, etc. running. Get a dual fuel generator to maximize your fuel options. 

That sucks.  Hope they get it fixed soon.  Going without AC is absolute hell, had 3 days last summer and was ready to go nuts

Just decided to get the entire ac system replaced. What if the system sounds better after a new ac system is installed in the house ? Hmm that’s when I’d be checking myself in a mental institution lol.

Alright folks i managed to record a quick video of my system playing QOBUZ for the first time. 

It is a surprise and very unexpected that Jay is only now discovering hi-res streaming as through Qobuz because Jay has portrayed himself as a daring, fearless, aggressive explorer of new horizons but of course I praise, applaud, and congratulate Jay for breaking out of his technological "comfort zone" and because Jay has many followers, admirers, and imitators I also hope that they are inspired by Jay's bold launch in to the world of current digital technology and consider following him in to the world of what digital has to offer.

My gf in NJ has a Generac unit for almost the entire house.  The installation was roughly $10K, 2x/yearly maintenance.  It turns on for 15 min on Sat mornings.  Great peace of mind investment for you.  You spend multiples of that on any single component.  This should give you perspective.

The final song of Dire Straits sounds great for raw guts and detail.  Get the LP version that grey9hound mentioned.  I don't think the euphonic Koetsu cartridge will deliver these sounds, but get the Lyra Atlas SL cartridge which offers the best prospects for challenging your SOTA digital system.  The Koetsu money could buy the Generac, so just go with the Lyra cartridge.  Lyra is out of stock due to the covid situation, so maybe you can borrow Oz's Koetsu as a first TT step.

So WC, do you prefer Tidal or Qobuz?  Or, will that be a future video :-)

Dave

Overall, qobuz seems to have better sound but not on every song. Some albums are identical. That said,  Tidal kills qobuz in terms of its music library. 

If Spotify got their act together and created a Hi res version of its platform, it would bury qobuz and tidal. Spotify has pretty much everything. 

I have given you 2 sounds on this video so you can compare to prior video... Looks like the comments on the video are quite positive. At $27,500, the s2500 does do things that the smaller s1000. You all can compare both songs on both videos and hear for yourselves.

On the first video, the S1000 seems to be crisper, more raw/detailed with more transient shocks than on the 2nd video with the S2500.  Different songs, so merely a speculation.  It would be informative to hear any of the songs, in particular the hard-hitting Dire Straits using both the S1000 and S2500.  I am guessing you are not using either of the S-tanks with the power amp.

You need a generator powered by diesel to feed the 3060. I don't believe you have grasped how massive and hungry the 3060 is. 

• 240v requirement
• 900 watts class A
• 350 lbs 
• 5 separate transformers 

You can't get creative with it. It's destined to be on its platform and plugged into the wall. 

OK, same song, California Dreaming.  On prior video with S1000, starts 2:43.  On later video with S2500, starts 5:58.  Unfortunately, on later video, it is recorded louder.  Trying to match volumes, never an exact experiment, I heard more neutrality and focus with the S1000.  S2500 seems rounder and warmer.  This is only one song, so I would like to hear S1000 and S2500 with matched volumes on the better recorded Dire Straits song.

The generator is merely to provide basic survival comfort while awaiting the return of AC power.  The ultimate sonic result will be from the upgraded AC, and a battery/inverter.  I reject the claim made by power amp manufacturers that the best result is gotten from plugging the amp into the wall.  In terms of unimpeded power delivery they may be correct.  However, the audiophile seeks maximum power purity, which is likely best obtained by the battery/inverter, getting you off the polluted grid.  Only the S5000 has the capability to handle the entire system with high powered amps.  Then the question is whether the comparable capability from products mentioned by ricevs produces better purity than the much more costly S5000.

Well this is very interesting... I just received a few emails from people in the industry that just watched the video i posted and they said the system is sounding out of this world with spaciousness and surreal clarity. 

Folks - it's time you all grab your headphones and give it a listen. I want your feedback. Is the s2500 the better unit for my system? 

I will give my comments after you all comment HERE!

Yes, Dire Straits with the S1000 has devastating impact and clarity.  Does the S2500 make that song more polite, as I suspect?

You can buy a 240 volt 4000 watt (8000 watt peak) Giandel inverter (around $627 plus shipping from UK....I have asked Giandel if they will make a 240V unit for US....but I doubt they will for safety reasons) that will power the 3060 fine. The 3060 only draws 300 watts when idle.....the 240 input on the 3060 is so you can get ALL the power from the beast as a normal 20 amp 120V connection will not do 6000 watt peaks......240V allows that. The inverter will probably have better bass and dynamics than running directly from 240V dedicated lines. That is certainly what the 5000 watt 120V Giandel does......kills super dedicated lines in bass, dynamics and every sonic quality.

BTW......the 3060 idles at 300 watts.....but when asked will do 900 watts of pure class A power into 8 ohms.....this is not its idle power

System sounding amazing! 

Many of us not only want our  equipment to perform well but we also want it to look good as well.  The Stromtank fills the bill on both. Does it cost more,  well yes of course it does. You don’t get a classy look for free and I suspect the performance is unquestionable as well.  Remember this is a cost no object system. If I had my system all together like I want it ( like Jay ) then a Stromtank would be a nice addition to top it off. Performs well AND looks great. Good move Jay.  Just about the time we think you’re at the top you fine a way to push it just a little bit more. Great sound. 

Thanks Carey 

Wow!  The clarity on the 2500 is amazing, so much better than the s1000 no doubt. So detailed and musical. I may have to rethink my priorities, lol!

Guys, get creative......you can make a cool box for an inverter system or have someone else make you one.....you could even get a large rack mount chassis and just bolt a quarter inch thick aluminum plate underneath so it could withstand the 130 lbs of batteries and inverter and charger.....pretty darn simple. You would have the power cord on the back for the inverter along with a single Furutech outlet to feed your Puritan (you could even dangle the Furutech outlet...so you don’t have to do much metal work.....or even mount 4 dual Furutech outlets on the back...or on a separate power strip. Then you have a switch on the unit that disconnects the charger from the batteries......all of this is basic stuff most of you can do.....or get someone to do it for you......I might make the above myself and offer it as a product......what? I can make some money too???!!!! It’s probably too heavy for me to do.....but it’s easy....go for it. The 5000 watt Giandel Inverter system plus chassis and labor......maybe $3500.......the 2500 watt Stromtank......$27,000. I bet the Giandel sounds way better........You could buy the Stromtank (hopefully with money back guarantee).....and buy the inverter system and A/B......then send the one that does not sound as good send back for a refund....What, you do not want to know if a $2750 (the cost without a chassis like shown on my website) 5000 watt inverter system sounds as good or better than a $27k product? You want to know....don’t you?!!

Reminder.....you can buy (with money back guarantee) a 2200 watt Giandel inverter for a lttle over $300!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and try it with one of your car batteries......What? you do not have $300 on a credit card?

Do you want to love yourself or make yourself cry? (tears of sadness).....I cry tears of joy everyday as I am moved by the beauty of life.

carey1110,

Did you listen to California Dreaming on both videos back and forth?  I indicated the timing on each video for easy reference.  At first I thought the recorded level was louder on the later video, but later it seemed the volume levels were matched approximately.  YT quirks?  If the volumes seem different on your setup, match the volumes as best as you can, then listen without bias.

Dire Straits is a much more revealing and challenging recording, so I hope Jay presents this song with both S1000 and S2500, and then later when he gets the S5000.

Ricevs you make a great case and I’d definitely consider trying it at some point. The money back guarantee makes even more attractive. However, Hard to say if it would sound better than a Stromtank since I haven’t heard the inverter system you speak of. Hard to image that it would but nothing surprises me in this stuff anymore. Would have to have them side by side or at least in the same system to make that judgment. Someone may do it but I only know of one that could and I doubt he’d mess with it. I’m sure it must be pretty good as I can sense your passion for it. I doubt I’d cry tears of sadness if I owned the Stromtank tho  lol!

Viber I agree the Dire Straits would be a better recording to judge by. However just based on what I heard I think the 2500 will have an advantage when it comes to clarity as it should.

Which videos are we supposed to be comparing? The latest one with the qobuz one?

Edit: This is easy - Stromtank 2500 destroys Stromtank 1000, which sounds muddled in comparison. 2500 has much blacker backgrounds and better mid and treble clarity, not to mention better bass tautness. It instantly just sounds much cleaner. I mean - not a shocker - what else would you expect? Company would have to be pretty dim to make a much cheaper product in its lineup sound better

carey,

Again I heard greater clarity/neutrality on the S1000 for California Dreaming.  The opening guitar has a bit more focus, and the upfront lead singer has more breathy HF content with greater delicate nuance.  The S2500 is warmer and rounder on the voice especially.  I am suspicious of other high priced German products like MBL which are on the euphonic side, according to many reviews.

Don’t rush to buy the S2500 (or any PC). You may not hear much difference without the Boulder and the Magico.

@kren0006 

just use the last 2 videos i published. There are 2 songs that both have in common and all you have to do is see which one you prefer. Today's video shows the s2500 and yesterday's (the qobuz video) shows the s1000. 

Yep, that’s what I did. It was easy for me. easier than the power cord last couple videos. I posted my conclusions as an edit in the post before this. Only had time for one listen - gotta go pick up my daughter from practice

Sure, a company wants to make their more expensive product sound "better" than their cheaper product.  But what does "better" mean?  It could mean warmer, richer sounding.  Maybe the wealthy customer wants to settle down after the stresses of their financial/business world, and relax in the luxuriant, smooth sound.  Some time ago, Jay found the more expensive ARC ref 10 had a richer, smoother sound than the cheaper ref 6 or 6SE.  That was the marketing approach of ARC.  Stromtank could have the same goals to appeal to their more wealthy customers.

In the opera world, the wealthy prefer the Grand Tier location, which is directly over the back of the orchestra, over 100 feet from the stage. The line of sight there is excellent, but the sound is much less detailed than from the very front of the hall close to the stage.

After trying different volume settings, I still hear that the S1000 is more detailed, while the S2500 offers relatively luxuriant, warm, smooth sound, at least on the Cal song.  The Dire Straits song would offer a better test.

Jay, thanks for the tip about the other song on both videos.  Prior video with S1000, song opens at 0:00.  Later video with S2500, opens at 3:00.  This is a much more revealing recording than California Dreaming.

I hear the attractive increased spatiality with the S2500.  The S1000 is more upfront with less depth and spatiality.  There is a little congestion with the S1000, suggesting that there is more distortion in the S1000.  For this song, overall I prefer the S2500.  Perhaps on another recording, I might prefer the more upfront S1000.  For me, the ideal would be more upfront presentation with still excellent spatiality

Well I’ll guess we’ll have to wait for WC to tell us exactly how they compare on all the factors based on actually being there.

Go read my post again. I said exactly how the s2500 was better. Among other things It had better clarity and it wasn’t close

Viber I didn’t find the 2500 to be warmer. In fact I found the opposite to be true. The s1000 was less transparent and warmer that the 2500. Also the 2500 seemed to have greater clarity,  detail, dynamics maybe even more information if that’s possible, but musical at the same time.  Lower noise floor. Our different  experience seems odd. Maybe a YouTube glitch at the time IDK. 

Not odd at all, Carey. That’s exactly what I heard as well. Based on history of sonic assessments demonstrated in this thread and audio knowledge, the results for the three people who’ve commented (you, me and Viber) are exactly what I’d expect.

what will come next is all too predictable. WC will confirm that 2500 has much better clarity and is superior in every way. Viber will make excuses and contend the opposite and that WC did something wrong in his assessment (already started with the Dire straits complaint). Then for months he’ll drone on about how 1000 had better clarity. Seen it too many times……

kren006 yup same movie different scene!

kren0006,

Not at all.  Cal Dreaming is a poorly recorded song that led me to a different preference than the other song which I don't know.  But I have an open mind to report what I hear, and change my mind when the evidence is clear.  On the other song, the 2500 had clear superiority in many aspects, and overall I preferred it.  

Switching gears to live unamped music heard at different distances, mid hall sound is definitely more spacious than 1st row or stage sound.  Close up sound has more HF content than distant sound, and can sound congested and harsh.  Now the 2500 has set a standard for spatiality and naturalness, so the question is how will other units such as mentioned by ricevs compare?  I still perceive that the 1000 has more HF content, but now believe that a fair amount of that HF content is distortion, compared to the 2500.  Will another battery/inverter unit reveal the comparable spaciousness of the 2500 plus more HF undistorted content which are the characteristics of live natural music heard close?  How will the flagship S5000 do against the 2500?  I expect Jay to find out for himself, and then demo it for us.

This Stromtank has been a great learning experience, which I think is just the start of great things to come, as other battery/inverters are properly compared in different systems and with different recordings.  Better recordings will tell the truth, but lousy processed recordings are not worth the investment in the best power products.

Okay, but I think you’re wrong and the 2500 actually lets through more high frequency content with better clarity. Let’s see what WC says - he’s in the room.

This is perhaps analogous to the Rouge trial, where you thought it had better high frequency content and clarity, but others like me and WC said, no, it didn’t, it was inferior there as well as all other areas which of course is nothing to be ashamed of given the price gap there, but it was what it was.

Different preferences, different hearing abilities, different abilities to assess what we hear - why different folks like different things

No, I call a spade a spade.  At first listen, there is more HF energy in the S1000, but further listening shows that this HF (or possibly upper midrange) energy has a significant amount of distortion in it.  No question that the HF content of the S2500 has more purity and naturalness.  A simple analogy is an old radio tuned slightly off.  At the center of tuning for 710 AM, the sound is fine, but at 709 or 711 there is more HF energy heard, but it is obvious that this added HF energy is all junky distortion.  This analogy is highly exaggerated, but the S1000 appears to be a tiny bit like the mistuned radio producing more distortion and less natural music than the S2500.  It remains to be seen whether the cheap units mentioned by ricevs will produce more distortion than the S1000.  

The simplest thing Jay can do is to demo the system with and without the S1000.  We might laugh our heads off saying how pure even the S1000 is compared to without it.  Looked at another way, if the reduction of perceived distortion via the best (say the S5000) is 99%, what is the reduction of perceived distortion via the cheap unit, or the S1000 or S2500?  That will determine how much money to spend on the very best, or settle with the best buy which is still a significant improvement.

I still say that the entire system, including the power amp will benefit, so the S5000 may be the ultimate cost-no-object way, and also the best buy, because even the S2500 won't be enough for the high power amp as well.  The cheap units mentioned by ricevs can handle the entire system.  This fact alone may make cheap systems compelling for most people, even for Jay if he doesn't want to go for the massive and extremely pricey S5000.  Or Jay could use the S2500 for his front end and try the cheap unit for the power amp.  Or a 2nd S2500 for just the power amp.  A worthwhile speculative $6K trial against the superb $27+ K S2500.  A much better speculation than over $10K for a euphonic flagship Koetsu cartridge.  Expensive cartridges are not returnable, like used underwear.

FYI.......the US versions of the Giandel Inverters do not do 240 volts output nor are they split phase....and even though Giandel makes 240V versions for overseas they will not work with the 3060 because they are not split phase. The Stromberg 5000 can put out 240V but I do not see in their specs whether it is split phase or not......if not, then you cannot plug a 3060 into it......I am sure Jay will email them and find out. Interesting that the then $20,000 and now $27,000 Stromberg S2500 was the one that Tom Lyle said that sounded basically the same as the $450 Goal Zero that I use. Just noticed that the Stomberg 5000 cannot do any more than 2400 watt for 30 minutes continuous (5000 watt peaks).......the Giandel 5000 watter can run 4000 watts all day (10,000 watt peaks).

Hardly anyone has a power amp that needs 240V split phase.....there are only a handful on the planet.....the $145,000 Boulder being one of them. Even the Boulder 2160 can run on 120V. Most all other amps will work fine with the Giandel 5000.

Haha, sounds like a lot of excuse making, hand waving and revisionist history. Congratulations on realizing your analysis was wrong, Viber. That’s a start. Glad we could help

I was not totally wrong.  With the better recording, I instantly heard the superiority of the S2500.  With the lousy Cal Dreaming recording, I heard junky processed sound that confused me.  The finest speaker/amp/preamp/dac in existence could not make natural sound from this sonic trash even with the perfect battery/inverter. But listen again to this song with the S1000.  There is greater quantity of upper midrange/HF output than with the S2500, but a lot is garbage, not natural content, where the S2500 is superior.  We will get a lot of laughs if Jay plays Cal Dreaming without any power product at all--I anticipate even more garbage.

That said, musically but not sonically, I like the lead girl's voice on Cal Dreaming.  Lots of humanity.  She deserves an unprocessed natural recording team.  Are there any good recordings of her?  If anyone has examples, I would enjoy them, thanks.

Here is a video of the rawness that will be showcased on my members only section from my website which will launch soon. This is one of the videos that won't make it to YouTube but that i have shared (i edited a few parts out to make it YouTube friendly). I hope you all don't miss this!

@ricevs 

I'd appreciate it if you DO NOT COME AT ME with such comments. One more comment like that towards me and I'll take it to the moderators which will ban you. 

You've been warned.