kren00061,500 posts08-19-2021 10:53am No sneering remarks. Just respect WC’s wishes and stop talking about stuff that has no place on this thread or his channel. This isn’t "his channel." TAKE A HINT!!! If it bothers you that much that your stuff isn’t worthy (WC’s decision - he’s told you that a million times and he just did again in his last post - reread it) then don’t follow the thread. This isn’t "his channel." ... NO IGNORING WC’S WISHES FROM THE USUAL DOLTS WHO CANNOT RECOGNIZE THAT THEIR STUFF SUCKS IN COMPARISON TO WHAT WC PRESENTS Using ALL CAPS only undermines whatever point you’re trying to make. Everyone is free to post here within the forum rules. If you have complaints about participants here, take them to the moderators. |
You didn’t catch the tongue-in-cheek satire attempt. Only reason I posted it that was because that way was what another poster had done when asking for no sneering remarks while simultaneously directly insulting people ("closed minds"). It was meant as kind of a joke. |
@kren0006
Agreed. It is always the same few that take this thread off course. If those posters want to go there, find, or create, a place/thread that appreciates that discussion. I, for one, have heard many many systems and I'd love to have just spent $3k, or even $10k. But I can tell you first hand that those systems, while OK, are no where near $50k, $100k+ systems. That's the primary reason higher price systems cost more - once you hear them you can't go back, unless one cannot afford them. I'd own the Mbl Extreme system if I had the house and capital for the system, but I don't. So I settled for what was in my particular budget. Higher priced gear is not just bling as so many posit, it is higher priced because it is just obviously sounds much better, in a different league, and sometimes, just on a different planet better.
@jays_audio_lab - totally agree with you. You've been very responsive and cordial.
It'd be nice to get this thread back on track. |
I think that this is WC's thread and "his" choices of what he wants to try - not our choices.
And, as WC mentioned, he doesn't mind suggestions, but he definitely indicated a preference to go just one round with these things and not to have these things come back over and over again. To me, anything outside of that is disrespect for the OP - for WC.
Dave
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For pure business reasons, I think it is valid for Jay to devote his YT channel to expensive stuff that most viewers would not otherwise see or hear. My advice to Jay in my last post was purely for his own pleasure in his home system. I suppose there are a few high end dealers whose home systems have great sounding modestly priced components they can afford. Even if a dealer can get stuff at 50% off retail for himself, that is still uber-expensive for Soulution and the like, especially when he tries to sell the stuff and get only 30% he has lost money even with the dealer price. This industry is cruel. Why is there such hostility from some people when I offer a few names at cheap prices that really compete sonically with the expensive stuff? Ricevs brought to our attention the video on the L'il Audio Silver 8 speaker. I challenge anyone to record those video selections on their expensive speaker, and let's see if the expensive speaker displays clarity and snap equal to or better than that cheap Silver 8.
Logydoghan,
You cannot make honest statements about anything unless you have heard it in your own system--that's obvious. You found the DCS dac far superior to a Benchmark dac, that's fine. Maybe I would have the same findings since I am not impressed with my Benchmark dac. But it looks like you have never heard the Benchmark AHB2 vs Nagra. Don't fall into the trap that something expensive MUST be superior to something cheap. This is true about cars most of the time, but it is NOT true about several types of audio components, in my experience. I hate rolled off euphonic sound, so I wouldn't live with a $100K amp with that type of sound if you paid me that $100K. The same applies to someone who likes warm sound who would rather pay $100K for that warm amp than $3K for the accurate, revealing AHB2. |
If there was a way to build an amp for $3,500 that can put an @$$ whopping on a Mephisto, don’t you think someone would have done it by now? Don’t you think that if a company saw an opportunity to build far better product that is more economical they would have jumped at the opportunity?
Why hasn’t ANY MANUFACTURER shown up with something quite affordable that can easily demolish the ultra high end?
It’s just not doable and this is why they don’t really do it. This is why they stay in their lane and don’t go at it with the big brands.
You really REALLY think that tomorrow we will all roll out of bed and find out that there is an affordable class D amp that is killing the Boulders, constellation and Gryphons of the world?
I got news...you’ll be waiting a LONG TIME at the bus stop...that bus ain’t coming.
When it comes to amplification (which is what I am most familiar with), there isn’t anything that touches the heavy hitters. The gap between the heavy hitters and the affordable amps is quite big.
Take Parasound for instance: good brand, good construction, good sound. How long did it last in my room? You think that was by coincidence? Why do you think i still have 7 year old constellation monos sitting on the sidelines? I’d take a depreciated set of constellation amps over ANY recently released MIDFI amp. It’s baffling to see how bad this old amp murders many new amps.
That said, i predict this new Luxman amp is going to take down some names. I also heard there is a big expensive set of Luxman monos coming out next year that will replace the 1000 series. |
WC: face the facts. Viber and ricevs actually believe the stuff they say (ricevs) over and over and over and over and over and over (Viber).
They actually think that stuff is better.
I don’t think anything you or anyone else says will convince them otherwise.
Ricevs sorry for grouping you with Viber here because I know your deal is tweaks but you do continuously profess that expensive amps will soon be boat anchors so that’s far enough out there in crazy land to warrant inclusion just this once with mr zip
(and psst, mr zip, the reason nobody commented on all of the videos you keep asking about is because nobody cares)
To be clear I am not ripping on inexpensive gear. We all (including WC, read his first post of thread) have or have had inexpensive gear and likely enjoyed it for what it was.
But to contend the bargain basement gear (the usual stuff that shall not be repeated) can sound better than the systems WC presents (as is contended ad infinitum here) is lunacy IMO, and dare I say it, tells you everything you need to know about the audio judgement of the one making the claims. To a few those statements will be celebrated, but to most experienced audiophiles they’ll be dismissed as out of touch ramblings . To each their own. |
We all WISH there was gear that was far cheaper and that easily bested the expensive stuff. The only one amp i can say has been a surprise as of late is the Gryphon Essence. Again, this is proof that for me NOT ONLY EXPENSIVE gear is amazing.
Anyhow, has anyone here ever wondered what Metallica sounds like on my system ?
Today you might get to find out if YouTube doesn't block the video of course. It was SO MUCH FUN to listen to this yesterday and i found myself not analyzing the system but rather enjoying the music. |
First time on YouTube: Metallica on a $400k system. Nobody is doing this kind of stuff. Wear headphones and crank it the hell up!. No music server, no special speaker cables, no power conditioner and stock cheap powercords on the msb. This is the new monster monos with matching preamp. From here, we can only go up! You can hear the immediacy, dynamics and explosiveness of the system. This is still not fine-tuned folks. Just wait... https://youtu.be/btVSE8u07HM |
All of the above posts saying that cheap amps cannot equal or outperform expensive amps are based on ignoring a few inconvenient truths. For example, claiming that the Benchmark AHB2 cannot equal or beat the Nagra Classic for clarity is based on NOT auditioning the AHB2. RIAA deserves credit for being the staunchest proponent of the need for personal audition to make any claim.
Second, designers all have their sonic preferences. The AHB2 design goals were clarity/transparency/neutrality, and they have succeeded according to my listening for 1 month, and yyzsantabarbara's longer ownership. All the Gryphon amps have some degree of warmth, according to Jay, even the Mephisto which was warmer than the Boulder, verified by several good listeners including myself and mrdecibel. Yes, all the Gryphons have better build quality and drive capability than the AHB2. I didn't buy the AHB2 because it couldn't drive my parallel electrostatic speakers without shutting down, but I loved its qualities at moderate levels. Many people have conventional, more efficient speakers, so the AHB2 drives them well.
Third, a more theoretical claim. It is a correct widely accepted notion that simpler circuits with shorter signal paths are the recipe for clarity/transparency. This should inherently reduce the cost compared to a larger, complicated circuit which costs more. All this assumes that your goal is accuracy/transparency. The AHB2 is an example of the above. But if your goal is brute force, by all means spend your money on big, heavy amps which are expensive.
Fourth, an amp is not a high performance car. More money buys more power, acceleration, etc. I am not knowledgeable about cars, but I wonder if the high performance power cars can do the subtle moves required if there is 2 inches of clearance when driving between 2 vehicles, or avoiding a bicyclist, etc. Jay might say that the expensive car can do everything better, but the driver has to have more skill. For my average skills, I am safer in a conventional car because I couldn't properly handle a high performance car.
As an aside, some high end phono cartridge manufacturers employ small women with delicate hands and great coordination to do the skillful hand construction and adjustment of those cartridges. Such a woman would be out of place in an amp factory where strong men are needed to lift heavy amps around, even with assisting tools. This illustrates my contention that brute force is useful in some tasks, and subtle skill is for others. Different amps are designed with different priorities, for the consumer with different preferences. More money helps in some cases, but not others. |
This thread would benefit from getting the Class A CODA #16 in for a shootout. I have the lower end CODA #8 Version 1 ($6K) and it sounds so Luxman c900u/m900u-ish with the CODA 07x preamp.
The #16 seems to be a value based UBER amp that goes head-to-head with the amps on this thread. American made versus a lot of the imported amps that have a lot of costs associated with bringing them into the USA.
A lot of great American amps. |
WC,
Do you think the lack of a power conditioner is helping the rock music to sound more like it should sound? A lot of times, power conditioners seem to do lose some of this type of sound, even though there are some benefits to what they do. It will be interesting to see if the SR Powercell allows you to keep the raw sonics.Thanks for the good music!
Dave
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Jay
Your best video to date, so real and life like. The leading edge and decay on the cymbals was so spot on. Live in the home, great work! |
A great song and well recorded is Russia On Ice by Porcupine Tree, it's on their Lightbulb Sun album. It will get the Mojo going and sounds great doing it. |
Thezaks:
It's kinda hard to say. I do know that some powercords - which will go nameless - tend to remove noise and they also choke the high-frequency extension and air. |
Well,
I will go ahead and share now that i have some tube monoblocks coming. They are flagship tube amps (not ARC!) and as you all know, i still have my ref6se preamp so folks we will have a full tube rig versus a full class A rig. Fun times ahead! |
But you haven't introduced your less new battery preamp and matching power monos, which I think are from Block Audio. Let's hear them before the tubes. A/B with Soulution 725 + Block (?) or Constellation. |
I like the snap of the Metallica songs. I never heard them before, but they illustrate the excitement of many types of music. No tube equipment will give the excitement here. They will make the metal sound a little soft, like wood. Maybe you have the VAC 452 iQ coming. Mike Fremer said they were the fastest tubes he heard, but admitted they didn't have the snap of his SS amps. Metallica should sizzle, not have "beautiful" midrange and polite HF. This is good demo material, and doesn't require lots of power, Most important is speed. |
Layers in guitar amp distortion can sound beautiful and fantastic via a tube amp. Most notable guitar players use tube amps to produce the sounds and textures that we hear in their recordings.
I'm also a big fan of surf guitar done right, it's simple but has a quite amazing signature.
Great electric guitar has body and soul but most do not know what to listen for.
A SS amp can be too fast with rock while a tube amp could be just right, up until the late 70's most recording studios were all tube and most guitar amps were tube also so if one is listening to classic rock for example what your listening too was born via tubes.
Tube amps are just like SS some are good and some are better. What Mike Fremer means by snap i have no idea he is just a reviewer and what he says should be taken with a grain of salt just like any other professional reviewer, some of these people think that they are the real "EXPERTS" when in reality it's a side hustle to make some coin.
The VAC 425iq is a fantastic amp and i have mentioned it here a few times, i have had experience with the mono blocks and not the integrated which i'am sure is also great. In their price range it's hard for me off the top of my head to think of a SS amp that can equal the 425iq.
If Jay has the VAC things are going to get interesting for sure. |
"Layers in guitar amp distortion can sound beautiful and fantastic via a tube amp." Hmm. OK, not just the distortion, but also the main melodic content. But the "snap" or "sizzle" or whatever other words you can use, will be rounded off to various degrees by tubes compared to a good, neutral SS amp. When I heard Jay enthuse about Metallica, he is likely excited about the sizzle and not the beauty of sound. I bet this recording will have more sizzle with the Soulution 725 preamp.
In the 70's, SS was really bad. Midrange tonality was severely mutated so that an oboe would sound like a clarinet, etc. Back then, I sought refuge from SS by getting tubes. The midrange was beautiful. But the best tubes like ARC amps were muddy compared to even the modest Krell KSA50 back then.
Mike Fremer makes a large part of his living from reviewing. He travels worldwide and knows lots of important engineers and musicians. He has had a whale of a musical life--look at his video of his home system, record collection and the stories that go with it. He is a 75 year old legend. He was excited about the VAC tubes, but I have come to realize that he likes a good degree of euphonic, warm sound. His DartZeel ref amps he describes as less defined in bass and other things compared to the PS Audio M1200 he reviewed, a mere $6K/mono pair. |
At the end, Jay said he wants the adrenaline pumping his heart rate up. This means sizzle, not polite beauty. His last words, "There, I SAID it," and I second his feeling. |
Sizzle is what you hear at a burger joint. There is a big difference between sizzle and hearing the leading edge of let`'s say cymbals decaying into the sunset, there is an edge that opens a window into reality. Finding the balance of overdone and not enough is the trick, amps can and do sound different from each other but are they really moving ahead or just sounding different. I can mod any amp to sound different from the original but different does not mean better. Amp design is key more so than the sum of the parts. |
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DO NOT use power conditioners on the msb DACs.. once again, I'm learning that if you have world class powercords for your dacs, using an additional filter in the form of a power conditioner, you choke the unit and kill the dynamics, speed and bottom end.
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New powecords on dacNew USB cable New Ethernet cable No music server Cables are not broken in Still on garbage speaker cables Enjoy https://youtu.be/IX16nT-HZx8 |
rh67,
Of course, "sizzle" is a crude description of what we mean by HF transient excitement. But you seem to believe that some SS amps have "too much" HF energy and excitement. If you experience live natural sounds, both musical and nonmusical, you realize that ALL audio systems are hopelessly dull. A few days ago, I walked past a playground and heard a strange new metallic sound at about 70 dB. I looked around and saw a little girl sitting on the ground about 15 ft away from me. She was banging a metal toy in her metal pail, her version of Metallica. At that moment, I thought to myself that all audiophiles should have been there to hear this. Tubes cannot quite reproduce this to the degree that good SS can. We all know that tubes do unique things, but they are handicapped in delivering lifelike transients like this. Some tube amps sound clearer and sharper than some euphonic SS amps, but good neutral SS amps will show the good tube amps to have some warmth/fuzziness.
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All 60 trillion cells in my body dance in the infinite light of the divine. What a miracle we all are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I said that nothing new is being said here......above is a prime example. Viber6 says exactly the same thing on almost every post. The ego is so funny (hey, I still got one!). We are so addicted to the same patterns. We are not our ego patterns....we are infinite. There are lots of games to play and many of them are far more satisfying than discussing/being right about "detail" or "dynamics" or whatever.
How you do any one thing is how you do everything. What if you did Everything with total joy, love and gratitude. Every thought you think, every word you say (or post here or anywhere), every feeling you feel and and every action you take affects every single person on the planet. How do you want us (all of us) to feel? When you listen to Jay's stereo do you feel uplifted? Do you feel uplifted when you listen to your own stereo? Do you share your uplifted state with all? Are you a better person....after you "make love" here? Is there a better lover....and better song.....a better dance.....a more uplifting joyful all inclusive dance? Just questions to ponder on this beautiful Sunday.....blessings to all. |
"Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely." - OP
I just bought a two channel Plinius SA 102 and a Plinius M-16 preamp that was heavily modded by Plinius Repair in California. I think it could share the same response as you've given to the Plinius Odeon. My SA-102 can be switched to 120 wpc of Class A. See "How I Beat the System to Nab an Unbeatable System" in Tech Talk |
Jay
In the latest video i can sense the system coming together. For me tone seemed to be off a touch but otherwise very good. |
Two of the biggest pieces of the puzzle are still missing:
Speaker cables
Music server
Let's not mention the break in time that the new cables need. |
viber6
You do not understand, no disrespect but i'll leave it at that.
Regarding live vs recorded i have spent decades with live sound, i was one of the sound personal for the GD and built and designed speakers for what was called the Wall Of Sound, spent decades in studios and clubs in the SoCal area, Doc Severson used to play everynight at the Vine Street Bar And Grill after The Tonight Show i was a regular there, the Pasadena Civic and Greek Theater were my other hang outs, these were not dives but venues that had great acoustics.
I truly believe you need to listen to better equipment instead of mid high end equipment. It has it's place but not in this tread. If someone cannot hear a difference between lamp cord and good speaker cable it's either that persons hearing or their equipment is no as good as they think it is. |
jays_audio_lab
Which new cables/cords are up for audition now?
Happy Listening! |
@jafant
I'll have a video out soon about the cables that to all heard on this last video. |
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@viber6Thank you for your comments on Benchmark vs Nagra. I have heard both of them in different settings. I haven't ABed them in my own system so you are right claiming Nagra is better than Benchmark is hasty. However, in different settings, Nagra is more often combined with high-end gears such as Wilson Audio, Magico, etc... I have never seen someone uses a Benchmark to pair with very expensive gears. And of course they both sound good, but in different levels. And spending that amount of money doesn't guarantee you the good sound. But it can give you a certain sound that no other brands can give you. Nothing on this market could sound like a Gryphon, and nothing could sound like a Nagra. Nagra uses all Mundorf capacitors and have huge current supply, which are very expensive themselves. You can use them to drive huge speakers like Wilson Alexia 2 and play things like 1812 Overture without any problem. I doubt Benchmark has that kind of capabilities. If a Benchmark can use all cheaper parts and sound like a machine that utilizes all expensive parts, the entire ultra-end audio industry should all close their shops. I don't think Nagra can exist in this market if their products can charge six times than the Benchmark does and sound completely the same. But again, maybe 6 times is too much. HiFi is very subjective and even if I told you that any brand sounds better than other brands, it is meaningless because what you think is not what I think. I think spending $10k on Chanel bags doesn't make any sense. A lot of girls that I know think it does. They think spending $10k on cables doesn't make any sense as well...
I like your way of critical thinking though. It adds some different flavor into this thread so I encourage you to keep posting. I just hope this thread and Jay can keep doing the ultra-end stuff.
Also, I think there are good Class D amplifiers. MBL N15, which is $35200 a pair, sounds magnificent, especially when driving MBL speakers. But I also think the best sounding class D amplifiers would still be uber-expensive.
Any discussion/suggestion/thinking is warmly welcomed :)
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Axpona postponed til April 2022, WC. You might have to do RMAF instead it that one even happens |
And speaking of MBL speakers, have you auditioned the 101s or the Extremes? I heard the 101s years ago at CES with the big MBL amps. I didn’t want to “run out of the room screaming” but close. |
I have heard both. Both sound good. Extremes definitely in another league!
Speaking of cheaper hacks, anyone here has tried to stack their subwoofers? I have seen Rel has this line array trying to stack six subs to form a better bass. Most speaker companies they share their tweeters and midranges drivers throughout their lines but the difference is always the bass unit. I am always wondering if you use a say Sasha DAW and stack 6 huge Rel subs would it sound like an Alexx? Crossover is hard but you can tune each sub by yourself. If it can give you the bass that a bigger speaker can give you, this might be a great hack since even six big subs can sometimes be cheaper than upgrading your loudspeaker + power amp. |
You can't turn a Camry into a Sequoia by stuffing the same engine in it Doesn't work that way. There is more that goes on with the larger speaker than just bass. You are overlooking the crossovers and the dual midrange drivers. Not even the Alexia 2 gets close to the alexx. Huge gap between alexx and Alexia 2. But the gap between Alexia 2 and daw is less. |
@jays_audio_lab
Totally agree with you. Alexx totally kills the Alexia 2. Can't super charge a DAW to sound like an Alexx either. |
Mbl, setup by the North American rep sounds amazing - heard it a number of times. The Extreme system will totally blow your mind, you just need a big room to set up in. |
Yeah I would assume so. Just curious to find out what six high-end subs can give you. I know even some WAMM users add subs as well... ahh I like bass in my face so I never understand Magico. They do sound well with Gryphon though, just less bass.
MBL has this royal feeling of sound... really good for jazz and classical. Never heard them play rock or pop though. |
logydoghan,
You're getting there, but until you personally hear the Benchmark AHB2, you cannot say that any particular amp that uses more expensive parts must be better. Benchmark is devoted to the audiophiles who value transparency. The AHB2 could probably be improved by tweakers like ricevs who put in better parts and do the listening to show that the better parts are matched correctly to improve the sound.
Just close your eyes and listen to the sound. Someone should present an AHB2 and an expensive amp, not reveal the identities or the costs, and then you report what you hear. The fact that Nagra is paired with other expensive items and Benchmark is paired with cheaper items is a biased procedure of unscrupulous high end marketing, designed to perpetuate the myth that more expensive means better. There is nothing wrong with pairing an AHB2 with an expensive XLF speaker. Both are examples of highly revealing components that would enhance each other, although for crazy loud rock they might not be the best combo. If someone stretched his budget for the XLF he might rejoice in the fact the cheap AHB2 gives him the best clarity and transparency. Perhaps only the expensive Soulution 700 amps, but not the expensive other amps discussed here might better the AHB2 for clarity/transparency.
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rh67,
I respect your pro experience in working with the well known musicians. But you may not be aware of my 60 year experience as an accomplished violinist. Believe me, we BOTH understand. Neither of our experiences are any more valid than the others'--they are complementary. But I encourage anyone to just listen to the random sounds of nature as I did with the little girl banging her metal stuff. The few seconds of listening to this teach people much more than going to audio shows listening to mostly mediocre high priced equipment that doesn't sound any more real than some modestly priced equipment. The concertgoer who sits 100 feet away is not hearing most of the sound from the 1st row where the main microphones are near. This concertgoer could learn a lot from that little girl.
Again, your claim that I listen to midfi equipment is false because you have not heard my stuff. It is midfi in cost, but not in performance. Until you get over the myth that only expensive equals SOTA performance, there is nothing more to say. You have not heard my particular Bryston 2.5B SST2, Mytek Brooklyn Amp, Rane EQ properly used. Most important, you have not heard my Audiostatic 240 electrostatics enhanced with Enigmacoustics Sopranino tweeter. For clarity and transparency, they beat any current expensive speaker available today. Only the original Quad 57 rivals it for midrange clarity. But perhaps you don't value clarity as much as I do, and listen for big scale dynamics of other music, where my speakers have limitations. |
viber6,
I think you said it there. You want the utmost clarity but not big scale dynamics as well as deep bass. Nagra can deliver that as well. So as the Gryphon... There is no point comparing which one is better because they all sound different and cater to different customers. Being a happy Essence owner, I agree with Jay's comment on Essence being the best amp < $25000. But a lot of people may have different tastes and think the other way, which I also respect.
Are you a soloist or play in an orchestra. I would like to know who's your favorite violinist? Mine used to be Heifetz but now more towards Menuhin. Perlman is my favorite currently alive :) |
@logydoghan,
Last I heard, nearly all WAMM systems were setup with Thors Hammer. I've heard those subs on both Alexx and XVX. They add a lot, but more air/ambience than pounding bass - Wilson uses a stereo crossover and the Wilson rep uses an app on their phone to set them up.
Mbl play all genres very well. Heard streaming, CD, and 15 ips RTR; just killer. |
logydoghan,
In theory, the perfect amp or speaker should do it all. In practice, it doesn't work out that way. We all have to make choices. For amps and speakers, I have found that full bass products sacrifice clarity in the midrange/HF. I am content with 50 Hz bass or even higher. My system has high accuracy for the higher overtones, so the low bass while quantitatively reduced is still there and suggested. A string bass on my system reveals the bow scraping and distinctive overtones that show the bass instrument to have different character than the cello or tuba playing the same bass notes. Crude analogy--the lowfi phone can still enable you to recognize familiar voices quickly, although it is often difficult to distinguish "a" from "eight."
Live music gives you everything well presented. I know Arturo Delmoni, a violinist who studied with Heifetz and Josef Gingold, and who was popular at early Stereophile shows. He conducted an orchestra I played in. One rehearsal I told him I loved the deep bass coming from the tuba. But the most accurate electrostatic/ribbon/planar magnetic drivers alone cannot reproduce the dynamics of the deep bass, which need less accurate dynamic drivers to do that.
I have enjoyed playing in the orchestra and occasional solo performances. Arturo liked to play in orchestras when he got the chance. Both solo and ensemble playing are rewarding. I made my solo debut playing the Mendelssohn concerto at the old age of 40, then Mozart 4th concerto, then Lalo Symphonie Espagnole. Particularly thrilling was standing toward the front of the orchestra while hearing the dynamic brass blasting at me in that piece. There it was, EVERYTHING. All audio systems are necessary compromises--I was still happy that my system generated that immediacy of clarity that I experienced in the Lalo piece. My first great violin teacher was Henryk Kowalski, a student of Myron Poliakin who was in the same Leopold Auer class as Heifetz, and Jacques Thibaud. Kowalski inspired me. He once chastised me for not practicing much, and said that I could be a second Kreisler. Fritz Kreisler was my favorite, combining good technique with ultimate charm and nuance.
For your musical and audiophile enjoyment, I recommend the 2015 recordings of Mozart concertos 3,4,5 by soloist Henning Kraggerud with the Norwegian Chamber Orchestra. The Naxos CD, available also by download has excellent sound, medium close with spaciousness. You can also find these performances on YT videos, where you can see the location of the musicians on stage, which enhances your appreciation of the better quality audio recording. Kraggerud is surprisingly more accurate, faster and more impressive than the several Heifetz recordings of these Mozart concertos. I never thought Heifetz could be topped, but as in audio, something better often comes along. Kraggerud is faster, but still misses some of Heifetz' bowing tricks and romantic sound. On the other thread, LSA Voyager GaN, I have a running commentary with yyzsantabarbara about hearing very soft "sniffs" by Kraggerud. See if you can appreciate them at 0:08, 1:12, 4:35.
I love all the great old violin masters like Kreisler, Elman, Heifetz, Thibaud, Szigeti, Zimbalist, Menuhin, Enesco. I studied a little with Aaron Rosand, the next generation. There are no great living violinists with the romantic style of these old names, but we keep our ears open to newcomers like Kraggerud. Arturo Delmoni is close to the greats, with his romantic style. |
@viber61,'
How can you forget to mention Arthur Grumiaux among your list of great violinists? He goes easy on the schmaltz, but his wistful elegance surpasses them all! |
Bartholomew,
You are right, Grumiaux had elegance and precision. But his Paganini concertos sound tasteful like Mozart--interesting to hear, but Paganini needs devilish, wild abandon. I forgot to mention Ivry Gitlis, who died recently at age 98. Gitlis was the devil for Paganini and Wieniawski. I met him at a summer music program. A 15 year old violinist played the 1st movement of Lalo Symphonie Espagnole more accurately than I, with good sweet sound. But I watched Gitlis who was bored at this performance. He didn't offer the boy any technical or musical advice, but talked to him about life and asked what hopes and aspirations the boy had. The purpose was to teach him that to play Lalo with the Spanish verve it demands, the violinist must have passion in addition to good technique and sound.
Jay, you have Spanish blood, and I know you would enjoy this piece. It has 5 sections, with the 3rd often omitted. But the 3rd is like a bullfight, a real showpiece of daring combat. I love playing and hearing it. |
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