My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
There is admittedly something very satisfying about being absolutely as sure as you can reasonably be that you are buying the very best component for your tastes at your budget based on exhaustive testing/auditioning. I did it over about six months and ended up with Spendor D series (now I’m up to D9.2), Rel S5/sho, and Audio Research. To me that combo was the best I could do for what I wanted to spend. My speaker runner ups were Dynaudio and Vandersteen as i recall, but I always kept coming back to Spendor.
Not always in same room, not always with same amps/sources/ cables, but after you do enough auditions with enough different amps/sources/speakers/cables you can begin to extrapolate and get a pretty good idea. It’s a ton of work and requires a lot of concentration and note taking though to keep everything straight, and patient dealers……
Not that any of this is even in same ballpark as WC plays in, which is why I never mention it here. But I’m a planner and planning out the next big system purchase options……Alas, realistically my next system is probably out there a ways until I get my kids off to college, which’ll be 5 years <sigh>
Your missing one that’s up there with your best and made in USA with one of the the best warranty in the industry . Coda Audio ,and 3 power options ,the lower the power the more 1stwatts in pure class A The lowest power is18 watts in pure class A , then class AB 150wpc ,300,600, Largest all the way up to 450,900,1800wpc over 120 amps available with a Huge potted 3,000 kva transformer ,and over 80 k,uf in capacitance for retail $6400 . Mike at Audio Archon gives pretty fair deals .
jay. now that rossini and msb are fresh in your mind, and I know it has been a long time w different speakers/equipment, how would u describe the Lampizator Pacific sound wise in comparison?. similar price pt to Rossini w clock. i understand if impossible to extrapolate at this point, tube dependent, etc
Interesting. In my experience tubes in the mix most times will bring more to a performance and in a good way. Tubes have a way of manipulating the air in a room that SS alone cannot replicate.
Kidding, but I’ve already posted TMI about my system. I should probably just delete that earlier post because it’s not relevant to this thread.
Nobody cares what I have as long as I’m not claiming what I have is better than other stuff out there, and probably then they still don’t care. Whatever I have works for me for now. This is WC’s thread about his hi-end stuff.
My my Kren, Just a simple question. What do you use to listen thru to give your impressions here?
Viber listens thru his Mac. Viber what headphones do you use? His notes were extremely accurate. You've been making fun of him and criticizing him for months.
We just had pages of discussions and arguments about how what Jay played sounded. 80% of the people listening to the video heard something completely different than what Jay did (tonality exluded-everyone got that right), you and Zaks included. All I ask is what you use that to hear what you did. Seems like a pretty natural thing to ask given what you thought you heard.
Why so sensitive? This whole thread is about gear. What did you use to listen to the videos?
jays_audio_lab OP4,196 posts06-24-2021 8:41pmYou’re correct but they also lose the smallest nuances and minute details that only solid state or class D can pick up.
Jay that’s going to largely depend on what tubes you roll into a setup. I have both a Tube DAC (Modwright Oppo 205) and a Solid state/Tube Hybrid headphone amp (Pathos Inpol Ear). I heard everything you did (not really everything cuz you were live). BTW with bass the MSB also picked up subtle textural differences the dCS didn’t. IMO that was another thing that set it apart from the dCS.
On tubes... Some are more Euphonic and warm while other can be drier and much more airy. There are all types of shades in between. Just like solid state amps, pre-amps and DACs. My headphone system tilts to reference neutral just to the musical vs dry side. The 75 Reflektor driver tubes in my Pathos and Modwright Oppo are very solid state like on speed and soundstage, great detail and airy all while having a very musical presentation. Not warm, just rich and musical. I also have some 60’s Siemens CCA grey shields which everyone regards as one of the holy grail of 6922 driver tubes. IMO the Refektors are better. Similar sound but the Reflektors do everything a bit better. I also have had some 60’s Telefunken 6dj8’s. They are warmer than both of the above. My 1971 Western Electric 422a rectifier is off the hook good. Simply an unbelievable rectifier tube. Rich, transparent with an unbelievable 3 dimensional soundstage. Sometimes the sound feels like it’s coming from outside my Utopias.
What I mean to say by all this is just like in solid state you can build a tube setup that can sound just like how you want it to sound. Really rich and warm, to dry and airy detailed or anywhere in between. It just take lots of effort and some experimentation to find the right combinations.
What tubes do much better than even the best solid state though is project instruments and vocals in 3 dimensional space. In this regard no solid state can touch what tubes do here. It’s absolutely magical when you get everything right. That’s what we all chase.
I say all this as a 2 channel guy btw. I only bought my headphones in December 2020 for late night movie listening. No real intention to listen to lots of music with them. How good they initially were inspired me to buy more and more headphone gear- like you. How good my headphone rig has turned out to be has absolutely floored me. Truly reference. Unbelievable sound. Wow.
We all continue to learn. It never stops unless you think you know everything. Then you stop learning. I’m going to take Pokey’s suggestion for the Aurender improvements and see what happens. I’ll report back after that gear breaks in. I’ll also consider Ricred’s suggestions too.
Not sensitive at all. Just again, none of your business. Sometimes I’ll listen through headphones from a computer. Sometimes through headphones from the headphone amp from my dac. Sometimes through the speakers of my main system. Depends where I am and how much time I have. Last two months I haven’t had much for a reason I posted.
Oh, and I may have ripped attitudes of gear superiority or dogmatic adherence to fringe audio stances, but never gear (well of anyone’s other than WC, but he wants us to critique his gear). Huge difference between that and what you allege.
One other thing I’ve spoken out against is too much discussion or pushing of gear that has nothing to do with WC’s room or journey, which most or all of my stuff is. So I’d be a hypocrite if I now started doing that; again, another reason I don’t mention my stuff on this thread- it’s boring in comparison. If you are really that interested, you can search my 1400 posts. I don’t know if you’ll find what you’re looking for, but maybe. ; )
Even if you wouldn’t turn it into gear-shaming, plenty of others might. It’s not relevant.
Finally, I couldn’t care less what anyone thought of my audio assessments, which seems to be what you’re worried about. If you think my assessments are junk, that’s totally cool with me, because I’m not trying to impress anyone.
Which of my audio takes do you disagree with? I’ve probably provided more takes than many (even ranking the last set of amps by tiers) so there’s plenty of potential to disagree
Most of the people who voted in the dac shootout simply said which dac of the two they liked better. Or listed a reason or two. Which is totally fine.
WC listed 10 categories (or was it 9, whatever). And msb won 6 or 7 of the categories for him. Yet he didn’t like msb better than dcs. He said that. Why do you think that is? One reason could be that the categories he thought dcs was better in are more important to him, right? Otherwise he should have liked msb better because it won 6 or 7. I suppose there could be other reasons. I suspect he actually liked dcs better but doesn’t want to say it, but that’s just a guess. Let’s see which of the two gets more play going forward.
So I wouldn’t get too hung up on all of that. Most people just picked which they liked the best, and that’s cool. I wouldn’t assume that meant they couldn’t hear what you think you heard. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. Maybe they didn’t think it was important.
No reason to feel bad about being in the minority.
it sounds like you think your setup for listening to the videos is as good or almost as good as being in WC’s room. Do you think that? That would be an opinion that probably would be contended by many as impossible given YT limitations
Here’s another reason I think WC likes the dcs better, but doesn’t want to say it. This assumes you’ve been paying attention to the channel or even the thread long before the channel.
Does WC ever keep anything? No. It always goes. Let’s be honest - if reference were better than dcs, dcs would have been gone on day one, or at least day 1 after the shootout. But it’s still here. Even if they were equal dcs would be gone because that’s what WC does, churn gear. He gave reasons like hard to reacquire but has that ever stopped him? Nope. Plus he said Vivaldi will soon be in pawn shops so if that’s true shouldn’t be hard to reaquire dcs. That’s all the more reason to dump Rossini, unless….. you know
Which dac was in the system for the video after the shootout? Yep, dcs.
Think about it (now WC will probably switch it up just to mess with me, haha)
So the shootout I think WC said was filmed last Saturday. And then there was a video after the shootout.
Notice anything interesting in that video? Did you see the msb Reference in that video? I’m not talking about it playing. I’m asking, did you see it on the rack? I didn’t.
Why is that? Only WC knows. Let’s see what happens.
WC has had Rossini for at least a year straight, I believe. That normal for him with components? Normal for him with something like that to keep it after he brings in something that costs much more (reference $$ >>rossini $$)? I haven’t seen him ever do that, but hundreds of times I’ve seen him do the opposite - jettisoned the old stuff he’s had forever (well he’s probably never had anything for a year straight like Rossini, but you get the picture). So let’s see.
This wouldn't be first time WC said he was keeping something or even might have said he like it better and then next day it was gone, and the other thing stayed for months. Remember Wilson Sasha DAW and whatever more expensive Focal he had concurrently? There was a video that said Focal was better in some attributes and some people got excited, but we never saw that speaker again, and DAW was in the room for like 3 months more (whatever it was) - and there's been like 4 Wilson speakers since and just one Focal.
So watch what he does and brings/keeps in the room, that's the tell......
kren, Yes, this thread is primarily about Jay’s journey, but it was fascinating that the twists and turns of this dac shootout and commentary led to so much help to everyone in search of their own nirvana. For example, although Jay didn’t answer my question about the Chord DAVE, poster opm came out of the blue and was very helpful. Chazzzy also was informative in being the first here to describe the essential tonality of the Bartok, which was confirmed later by opm. So even if Jay is not going to purchase cheaper items to consider for himself, these discussions led to useful input from anyone who seeks lower cost high value items. It is even funny that Jay considers the Rossini as a lower cost high value dac. If 4425 is right, then the Bartok is an even greater outstanding value.
So feel free to indicate the details of your system, so we can help with our advice. Nothing personal--you won't undress in front of us, lol. It is difficult to A/B items at dealers, so home trials are mandatory to really be comfortable about making major purchases. This thread can help with the options. For now, I’ll say that Audio Research (if yours is tubes, and even solid state ARC) is on the warm side, although for tubes it is more neutral than the classic tube sound of Conrad Johnson and others. I was impressed with ARC sound at home years ago as having compelling musical qualities that I like, but then realized that great solid state offered more clarity, now confirmed by Jay. I am not familiar with Spendor speakers, but my guess is that they are warmer than Wilson in general. You might do nicely with the Bartok, but there is a chance that you might prefer Chord if you stick with Spendor and ARC. But if you go Wilson, then Bartok might be better for you.
I’m happy to help you out Viber, if I have specific experience with something you need help with. You asked about Spendor, and not knowing about it. I own four of them so I know the sound well. There’s "classic Spendor" (which includes historical, current classic line, and I’d say the A line to a degree, for purposes here) and "Spendor D series." Others would say A line is just a lower cost D line, but I don’t think so - in looks, sure, but not in sound characteristics.
D series, which is what 3 of the 4 Spendors I have are (the other classic), is very different sounding from classic, and very different from most people think of when they hear "Spendor." The reason is Spendor designed 100% in-house the LPZ tweeter of the D series (research how many speaker companies make every single driver, cabinet, component at large for their speakers COMPLETELY in house, hint - not many (not even Wilson Audio), which is what Spendor does with D series; for A and classic I think they buy the tweeters or buy and modify, so not 100% in house for those).
The D series LPZ tweeter is a soft dome with a diffraction grating but which many classic Spendor fanboys find to be too bright, because they like the old pipe and slippers Spendor sound that most are familiar with. To me that sound is rather boring. The D series hits the sweet spot for me in terms of fantastic BBC era wonderful mids yet with the modern neutral and crisp tweeter. Not beryllium or diamond - I typically find those too forward (Paradigm, Focal, Magico, Bowers&Wilkins - just my preferences, others will disagree), but definitely not classic Spendor or Harbeth either. Very neutral to my ears.
So there ya go. Now you know a little about Spendor, a famous BBC era "British Sound" speaker brand, along with Harbeth and Kef and others back in the day.
I once suggested WC try it and he said he never heard of it, ha. It’s not a super popular speaker (D series) but definitely has its fans. That doesn’t matter to me. I know it’s the right one for me because I listened carefully to everything else I could before jumping in. Below $15k I haven’t heard better for my preferences
You might do nicely with the Bartok, but there is a chance that you might prefer Chord if you stick with Spendor and ARC
When I had the Chord TT2 I wanted a dedicated streamer and I tried a Lumin U1 mini and a Lumin U1. The U1 was superior and sounded amazing with the TT2. This pair costs the same as the Bartok and that's when I tried the Bartok and decided to sell the TT2.
Just to clarify: The Bartok is far superior to the Chord TT2 and I would venture to say that he is better than Dave. Ultimately, dCS is better than Chord.
With the Bartok you forget about more boxes, network cables, usb cables ... you have it all and with a software update policy for 7 years by dCS. It is very difficult to beat.
I need help: why do not I receive notifications to the email of this or another Audiogon thread?
1. Soundstage (width/depth) - MSB 2. Detail - MSB (close between both) 3. Clarity - dCS (close between both) 4. High Frequency - MSB 5. Bass - Tie (very difficult to decide - song dependent) 6. Midrange - dCS 7. Imaging - MSB 8. Articulation - MSB 9. Dynamics - dCS (on another level) 10. Decay - MSB
Looks like chazzy007 guessed the right DAC.
I'd say he got Articulation right. He was totally wrong on Dynamics, and Clarity. He said Bass and Detail were clearly strong winners for MSB, but Jay said they were close with slight edge to MSB. Don't know how you can interpret his comments about dCS forward sounding and MSB laid back. Jay said soundstage goes to MSB, so I would interpret MSB as being more forward in this case.
So what does all this mean - absolutely nothing, other than chazzy007 turning everything into a competition. Hey everybody, what's your headphone system, mines better than yours!
@kren: The msb is still in my room. i just dont have the shelve space. i have been listening to the DCS Rossini lately because i used the MSB for over a month. I plan to go back to the MSB to better understand what it does after i listen to the DCS for a few weeks. I do not believe dcs would work with Magico speakers - too forward sounding or too much bite. I also plan to eventually venture into other speakers in the future and having both dacs in my hands allows me to have more flexibility. Lastly, i don't really have an itch to buy anything else right now that would force me to sell one of the DACs. I am somewhat "bored" because i have been stuck at home and i have not been at shows. I have pretty much brought some kick-ass speakers and electronics over the last 18 months so i am momentarily unmotivated to chase things that i don't care about. I also don't or better said "WILL NOT" beg any manufacturer or store to sell me or let me me audition a product. I've pretty much been through approximately 80-90% of the best gear out there and the remaining 10-20% might be unreachable for my budget.
Ok, that makes sense. And also makes sense why you'd have then had the silver cable inserts in to liven up the msb.
But everyone notice how just a couple days ago WC said the gold inserts went in, probably at same time dcs did, and WC indicated everything sounding better than ever (or words to that effect), so take that fwiw and reach your own conclusions of what it means when he says that
I actually did not use the silver with msb because of a particular reason. I simply always used silver since i had the synergistic cables. This is the entire reason why they give you options to tune things with these bullets as you move forward with other electronics. That said, the question has been hovering in my head as to HOW the M6 would have sounded with these gold bullets and with the room treated? Hard to say because that M6 is indeed amazing. The only thing that pissed me off about it is that the MPODS are not adjustable so you can’t really raise the speaker a little more if you want to and if you have thick carpet like i do, it is hard to level the speaker because you really can not adjust the height like you could with spikes. Your only option to make the M6 adjustable with regards to its height? it is as "simple" as buying the critical mass footers they make for it which cost around $8k-$10k dollars.. I BET ANYTHING that the next round of Magico M series (whenever they release) WILL have adjustable MPODS? These are the things MOST OF YOU don’t get to see or know about because it is kept under wraps.
The XLF is another animal that has strengths and weaknesses - just like other speakers do. It is huge, heavy, difficult to move, but DO NOT get it twisted... It might be efficient, etc, etc, but it STILL requires brute power to make it open up. If you put decent power in front of it, it will play loud, BUT it won’t open up or sound large - or AS LARGE as the speaker can play. It pretty much tells you: I can play loud with anything you want me to, but i will only fill your entire room if you feed me the current, wattage and quality power that i need. This is THE TRUTH. As efficient as the XLF is, it still requires great amplification, lots of tweaking in the form of time-alignment adjustments until you get the sound you want from it plus it has its fuzziness too like the M6. Speaking of time-alignment, i just posted a picture on my youtube channel of me tweaking it yesterday and it takes about one hour just to get it time aligned. I thought it would take me about 10 minutes to do, but i was wrong. Let's say you need to adjust the lower midrange driver, guess what? you have to completely remove the tweeter and upper midrange modules first and that takes time plus you then have to put them back on. Lots of work!
chazzy’s cool, but the insistence that Dave and I list our systems was odd. prolly just a bad day, no worries as far as i'm concerned. viber’s not bad 82 db, haha, make that 81
Nothing wrong with having an opinion. The shootout was supposed to be fun, and based on personal preferences - so there is no Winner (I didn't like when Jay says 'Who's the Winner' in his video, because at the end of the day everyone hears and listens for different attributes in the sound - just like he does. If we got to hear his system live, I'm sure some people would disagree with some of his conclusions, which is perfectly fine. He also said, it was a high level assessment. Somehow, chazzzy007 turned it into a competition like there was a clear winner and I don't think that was Jay's intention in the shootout. He clearly crossed the line when he started challenging members with the system they were using, and saying it has nothing to do with YT.
Like I said earlier, for whatever reason the dac shootout got more participation on this thread with people actually engaging than any other shootout I can remember. Which was neat
chazzzy007 made a conclusion out of an assumption - and it was incorrect on both parts (me and kren0006). Rather than doing the decent/humble thing, like admit he was wrong and move on, he's asking for our equipment list? Even if I had the absolute worst headphone setup in the world, he's still incorrect regarding the assumption/conclusion that he had - nothing is going to change that.
Sorry, but this thread isn't about this at all. Let's get back to enjoying WC's journey - it's a privilege to be able to hear these setups, get WC's opinion, and be able to share opinions on what we hear and prefer.
Will be curious how WC likes the Ultra 5s under the XLFs. I have enjoyed the results under my speakers (wood floor). I just wish the threads were a little longer so I could adjust back to front tilt a bit more. I know that could result in them not staying fully flat on the ground surface... perhaps that is why. I believe Critical Mass was trying to find a way to adapt their speaker footers for speakers (e.g. YG Sonja 2.2) that would benefit from a tilt forward as well. Tricky.
I guess that may not be needed with the XLFs given their module adjustment features, which would be a plus....
Golfnuts, Zaks, and rbach. Kren not so much but a little. 😄
Not comparing anything. This is really the first huge DAX shootout and it generates lots of anticipation and interest. Lots of technical points made by many. There were massive descrepancies in what we all heard here. As I recall there were multiple posts about more detail on #2. To my ears that wasn’t anywhere near the case. Jay confirmed.
There’s been months of criticism and ridicule of Viber. Some of it rightfully so. Viber please don’t comment so much on gear you’ve never heard my friend. Lolz 😄😄😄
So I ask this because tbh I was quite surprised at Viber’s being so right on with what he heard, because I though he was hard of hearing. Rofl. Seriously. Haha What he actually heard was quite subtle. That was impressive. In the same breath I casually ask what you listen thru and you all get bent out of shape. That’s quite odd especially on a gear thread, and especially when Kren just wrote several novels on his 2 channel system.
Many of you were and are very quick to criticize Viber and together pile on and atrempt to bully him, but then won’t answer a simple question about what you listened thru. That’s weak.
Viber what headphones do you use? I have 3 sets currently. Focal Utopias, Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 32’s and Denon ah-d5000’s. The Denons are fun with lots of bass and and a pleasant sound signature. But for almost all of my listening I use the Utopias. Incredible headphones.
Kren you would love the Bartok. It is a mini Rossini imo. Exact same sound signature with good detail. It’s a very pleasant DAC to listen to. I also have an S5 SHO. Love it! I also think a tube DAC would do well with a possible Wilson purchase. The Wilson’s towards a matter of fact presentation. Upstream richness in tonality helps them. I’ve hear Sabrina’s and Yvettes with AR tubes and a Luxman 900 amp/preamp, and even with them they sound a tad neutral dry.
This was really a great thread for me. Just prior to this I’d been considering a DAC upgrade. MSB, the Tambaqui and Sound Designs MPD8 and Lampizator are on my radar. I’d actually eliminated dCS earlier for reasons other than performance.
I am actually quite concerned with a how a new DAC’s tonal signature would affect my headphone listenin which I now do quite a bit of. I've learned headphones can get sibilant quickly with just subtle changes in the wrong direcrion.
My Modwright Oppo with upgraded internal linear power supply performs quite well. I was never a big fan of the ESS 9308 Sabre Pro sound character. Thru the OG Oppo it was a little thin and dry. But utilizing the the synchronous Aurender connect that 12.9 mhz clock in the N20 changes the presentation of the ESS DAC quite a bit. With the power supply upgrade another jump.
I am currently thinking about doing an MSB in house demo. Dat $$$ doe! Lolz
chazzzy007, My post pointed out the lack of a decent/humble response from you, and you are continuing on that path - first with requesting equipment lists, and now with the sensitivity thing. What' you are not understanding is that this not about sensitivity - it's about your character. Your posts of avoidance and lack of decency/humility speak for themselves - nothing to add. Dave
had to look up soy and rofl I will say that I have found the right tubes in the Pacific DAC can be equally transparent with more dynamics, better imaging and soundstaging compared to my previous ss DAC. BUT, I can believe that a ss DAC at the Rossini level could result in a lower noise floor than a tube DAC at a similar price point/build quality. And potentially that additional detail Jay mentioned. I have heard this in comparisons of the TotalDAC D1-12 mk2 vs the Pacific w the tubes I use for instance.
Thanks for that. I came so close to purchasing the Bartok before I went a different direction. I love the richness tubes add to my Modwright Oppo DAC. Such a rich beautiful presentation. I've read and heard the Tambaqui (not live) and although a strong performer, I think it might be too lean for my headphone system though not for 2 channel.
Jay said something very important in his final video about DAC upgrades and about whether yoy are happy with what you have. That gives me pause...
This is a public forum and everyone is welcome. This thread was doing fine before you decided to grace us with your obnoxious, gloating and insultive behavior. Maybe 'What's Best Forum' would suit your style (or lack thereof) better.
zaks, My response was to find out why we saw the differences in listening notes that we did. Viber heard very subtle nuances I didn't think he was capable of. I was shocked. Why couldn't you and Kren? That's why I asked about what you and Kren listen thru. Simple enough.
Turns out Viber listens thru his Mac. I asked him what headphones. Simple questions. Viber didn't get upset when I asked. Take the chip off your shoulder. 2 pages before several of you were bullying Viber and the next page I ask what did you guys listen on and you get all insulted.
On another forum I post on we regularly post our upstream components in order to help understand what's affecting what we might hear.
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