Friday is when the video will release.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
this is pretty much how i feel about the harsh critics and the comments on youtube seem to agree with me. https://youtu.be/_c3J66o9Iqc |
I thought that big Wilson speakers were quite good to perform a role of monitor speakers to compare different amps and preamps and cables etc. Michael Fremer keeps them when evaluating everything. This does not necessarily mean that Wilson are his favourite speakers, this means that he thinks that they suit the purpose of his work best. But he apparently likes them enough for pleasure listening as well. So why bring Magico in to evaluate amps when the differences were clearly audible with Wilson ? Are Magico M6 better monitors than Wilson ? I doubt it, no reason to believe it so far. They are more transparent but Wilson are quite good too in this respect. |
Regarding the video, I agree that the over-the-top bashing of things is probably better avoided. But on the other hand, by your logic (that only those who have owned gear at that level can sharply criticize elite gear), then that would logically also apply to praising gear so that all of the gushing, incredible laudatory comments for the Wilson Audio, Gryphon and Boulder would be just as invalid or suspect. Why? Because by that logic we wouldn’t know the difference between Boulder/Gryphon and Bryston/Parasound, or between Wilson Audio Alexx/Magico M6 versus Tekton/GTA/Martin Logan 11a/Maggie 20.7. Why is that any different? I don’t necessarily agree with the logic. in other words, I think if you solicit feedback you gotta take the bad with the good. But let me repeat, those just looking to stir up trouble are annoying and I wish they’d stop. At the end of the day, the qualifications one needs are ability to listen and hear differences in presentations. That’s it. Don’t need to be an electrical engineer or understand the amplifier schematics. Just need to listen. Of course, like anything in life, some will be better at it than others. And maybe those who have owned elite gear are better. I doubt it though. Maybe they just have more money. I bet if you ask dealers they will admit that. Regardless, my only point in all of this is that if harsh criticism is invalid unless meeting some high ownership bar then praise from those who similarly don’t meet bar is also invalid |
When you use a highly flawed sound transmission system like Youtube and want people to comment on what they hear trough their own systems or iPads, you have to accept that not all will be positive about the sound. Imaging, bass response and articulation are never well represented in these videos, i hope no one makes buying decisions based solely on them. Personally i find little value in this format but understand that it is the only way to make some monetary gains on your endeavors. |
I think, our reference standard is high - it is how it sounds in reality. And I think, paradoxically, the better the system the more critical people might become. That is because the expectations are very high compared to much lower set-ups. I remember myself criticizing Mephisto. Mephisto sounds great but I expect more at this level. Another point. Most of us and most of your youtube viewers will never be able to afford such an expensive gear, even used. It is very upsetting and frustrating. I feel more or less okay about it but I am not that involved in audio. Still, this aspect is unpleasant to me. But I follow your thread with interest simply because I like to see and hear what is possible to achieve in sound reproduction. By the way, I would probably take Koenigsegg over Italian supercars. They are somewhat ordinary and this one is quite unique. Or McLaren. |
Remember, Price isn’t what tells you how much better something must be. If you spend 50k in an item for your rig it doesn’t mean you’ll get 50k worth of additional satisfaction by buying the new item. People don’t always understand that there is a reason WHY some items are called "big bang" for the buck. There is a reason why this terminology exists. That said, if you spent 30k in your rig and your buddy spent 60k and yet you feel yours is 90% as good as his, it doesn’t make you the winner lol. You’re still losing to his rig. It’s just that he feels spending another 30k to improve 10% is worth it to him. You really believe that your toyota supra is better than a dodge viper acr only because you can keep up with it if you were to race? No it’s not... " I almost beat you and your viper in my mitsubishi lancer and i only spent 20k.." " You are still in my rear view mirror no matter what" |
I agree with the logic that kren0006 presented - makes sense. I think it’s important for WC to differentiate between : a. his doing videos on equipment, including comparisons, and asking for comments and thoughts from folks who have never owned the equipment and/or never heard the equipment in person - only heard via youtube on whatever equipment they use to listen to it. vs. b. the point(s)he is making in this video I agree that over-the-top bashing is wrong, but when asking for opinions based upon youtube videos, seems like it should be fair game for comments. That’s why I mentioned that it’s ultimately great to get WC’s opinion - the opinion of the person in the room with the equipment. A quick perspective....while this is WC’s journey with the equipment - in the room, it’s also our journey with this combination of equipment via videos - it might well be the closest any of us get to that kind of experience. Dave |
Jay, I generally like your car analogies for audio equipment/performance and budget. I love a nice fast ride and I'd guess that I follow auto racing more than the average person. In F1 auto racing there is a driver, of course, who makes a significant difference in the race outcome. And every F1 driver has a race engineer. While the audio hobby doesn't have "drivers", I think your thread demonstrates that over the past 5 years you have begun to operate like an F1 Race Engineer--trying different combinations of materials to understand their end result--using either what you have on hand or acquiring other materials to use within a particular budget. The F1 analogy works here, I think, because the amounts spent on F1 racing are very, very high--but if you don't spend a minimum (significant) amount of money--then you mostly lose. There are rare exceptions, but Mercedes paid Lewis Hamilton $55 million to be their #1 driver because they like to win. And behind six of Lewis Hamilton's seven driving titles has been his race engineer--Peter "Bono" Bonnington. I readily admit sound isn't speed. But how you are currently approaching your project seems to fit the analogy above. |
Great post, Jay! I follow this thread almost religiously, like a lot of people so I can learn. I really value when Jay and his posters talk about what they like and WHY. Everyone has a preference (bash away) BUT please tell us WHAT YOU ARE HEARING that you like or don't like. IOW, what are your tells in comparison? Is his voice unnatural in his pronunciation of a particular word or phrase? Are the guitar strings not as semblant in one vs the other? Is the impact of the drum not sharp enough verses the other? Are the hi hats too bright or not detailed enough? Not enough energy in the high end? Muddy bass? It's all about values and preferences and tradeoffs, and we can choose the poison of our own liking. |
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techno, in my view you are right in some of your comments, and I stated it before, but not all of them. And you are not always exactly polite. It is in fact alright with me if that's how you wish to position yourself but evidently others are sensitive enough to reject your approach. In any case, we are going to hear the Magico with new Gryphon soon. I wonder if I was right when making an assumption that Gryphon/Magico would not be a great match, at least to my ear and taste. Intuitively, I would choose Boulder not Gryphon if moving in this direction. But it could be wrong, we'll see. It's fun anyway. |
Cant really be vocal on that with regards to any brand unfortunately. That said, I’m sure others can private message you and tell you more than I can. @inna Lately you have presenting your opinions better than when you first started posting here. Thank you for that. Some individuals are more abrasive as i mentioned on yesterday’s video. I welcome all positive and negative criticism but please exclude destructive criticism. i also want feedback from those who want to simply see how far I can push the envelope with the Magico M6. I have no air in my lungs to articulate things over and over and over again. I haven’t even placed the mágico with the supporting cast that will elevate it yet we are already "prosecuting" the speaker without it ever having a fair trial. It’s really stupid and it displays the ignorance, stupidity, blatant behavior that some are willing to enforce in order to end a good opportunity to hear one of the best speakers out there ONLY because they don’t see themselves EVER capable of affording it. Some people haven't even seen the speaker in person so clearly they wouldn't know how it sounds. With all that said, even if I were to surprise some people with this speaker and what i have planned for it, you REALLY think someone would come out and say: " wow Jay i was critical of the m6 at first and now it has blown me away. I was wrong for assuming so much" Hell no that wouldn't happen... Let’s see how the Antileon does tomorrow with pandora and synergistic cables. |
I understand. No, I am not that interested, not preparing for price negotiations. Like when you buy a car, you know. Jay, I can "present the opinions" in different styles. In any case, you really like Gryphon amps, and Boulder too. Gryphon has been very sought after brand for decades, just not in the US, where they will be going after the departure of Flemming Rasmussen is unknown yet. |
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techno_dud Dealer profit will vary from brand to brand. If you want to know what it is on a specific brand, contact a dealer and ask. Jay is in no way obligated to share this private business information. I'm sure that you negotiated for all your gear, we all do that. It seems you have no filter, you just say whatever you want. Please use a little decorum. It will go a long way. And, you are not saving anyone, you are just being aggressive/abrasive for no particular reason. As Jay noted, all POVs are appreciated, but acting out does not look good on you. Finally, if you just think this is the worst thread, you can always change the channel. |
All So I want to make sure I am as transparent as possible here. If i ever had to take "shots" at the general public here, it was never meant to be for any of you but techno. I can’t recall anyone else being so straight up harsh and just salty and bitter. I can’t recall the last time anyone was so "techno". If i ever hurt feelings, just know it was never meant to be for any of you except the perpetrator here. WHAT does he contribute? NOTHING. |
Since it is going to be Gryphon pre/power for a while it might make sense to have Gryphon dac or cd player in the system too. They probably can't compete with whatever that $83k piece is but synergy should be perfect. It would also introduce sort of a simplicity to system building, just a few brands, including cables. In the end, if the Magico is still there by that time, I suppose top of the line Boulder preamp/amp will win. Or maybe D'Agostino Relentless ? Or maybe they both, just different sound. If Gryphon Evo does alright Mephisto will as well, probably better overall, but I bet they won't be the best match with these speakers. Are we going to hear top Soulution electronics in the future ? I did think that Soulution/Magico combination was in tune, just needed improvement. |
Probably no soulution for me. I plan to bring a few brands never seen on my channel though. Tubes will enter in the room as well. I'm still about 4-5 weeks away from trying tubes. I plan to try new line conditioners, new powercords, etc. Maybe a new linestage here as well. Lots and lots stuff up my sleeve that i didn't have access to when i had the Alexx. More to come for sure. PS: i didn't like the soulution Integrated. I do understand the 7 series is on another level though but i don't feel it is for me given the price points. I can't have it all :) |
Jay, You said a few months ago that people told you that the Mephisto is the most revealing Gryphon and the Antileon Evo is more euphonic warm. Now you heard it for yourself. Moving up the clarity/neutrality scale, your Boulder was higher than Mephisto. Then Mike of Suncoast on your part 2 video implied that Boulder is still more tubelike than Soulution. So Soulution 700 amps appear to have the most clarity/neutrality. You can hear the videos I presented on p 302 which show that compared to Alexx and especially GTA speakers, the M6 is darker/warmer in tonality. The GTA is highest ranking for clarity/neutrality and that is with euphonic Pass and Lampi dac. The M6 could use a top Soulution amp if you like some aspects of the M6. The Alexx with more neutral Boulder is more neutral in midrange/HF than the M6 with Pass, and I won't be surprised if the M6 with Soulution will show that the M6 moves ahead of the Alexx for clarity/neutrality. I wouldn't waste money and time pursuing Dag Relentless or expensive VAC tube amps because they will likely be more of the same euphonics, but a top Soulution would be fascinating. Soulution is still cheaper than Dag Relentless. Of course, my iMac audio settings are not as revealing as your live room experience. But whatever factor X differences there are between my iMac and your live room, they are constant, so my relative rankings would likely be similar if I were in your room. |
Soulution is huge money. Plus my gut tells me it is going to be replaced this year. Close sources to me have already told me the new 7 series is coming. You see the 701s listed? 55k and they are like 160 msrp and they aren’t moving. Close your eyes and think why that is... Jay has something coming in a few months so don’t worry. If someone wants to bring their 7 series soulution here then I’m game. Anyhow, today you will hear the m6 with pandora and synergistic research cables. Then you all will hear it on a separate video with Nordost Odin Speaker cables and the NEW shunyata omega powercords which makes its first appearance in my room. These 2 cables is what I've been using over the last 48 hours so I'll shoot videos this weekend to let you all hear how it compares to full synergistic Research Galileo. I think most will be surprised with the change in tonality and the added warmth shunyata omega adds to the overall sound. Stay tuned for more. |
The beginning of a new chapter with the M6. Have a great weekend everyone! https://youtu.be/xtTT89RMhx0 |
Still nobody on this thread watching or caring about those vids on p 302.......those are crickets chirping, Mr. V, yet every page or so you beg people to listen, oh well, keep wishing for it I guess. My kids keep asking for a puppy. Hope springs eternal!!! With the latest reveal yesterday, I think I just need to stop predicting because I haven’t gotten one right in a long time <sigh>. Well unless the tubes in 4 weeks thing turns out to be VAC, then that wouldn’t be bad. Not that anyone else had Antillion (or whatever its called) either, but still, .... |
I saw a video of Chris Stapleton and Justin Timberlake doing Stapleton’s "Tennessee Whiskey" as a duet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IE59kDK1bA To me the Wilson Alexx is Stapleton and the Magico M6 is Timberlake. Different sounds - both talented. One more authoritarian, one more dainty (not meant in a pejorative sense, but in a less muscular but perhaps nimbler sense). It’s actually maybe similar to that restaurant analogy I made in comparing the Focal/Magico/Wilson, where here at least the Magico isn’t schitzo like the last one was but is polite like the Focal - to me anyway. I like Alexx/Stapleton of the two choices. Personal preference. Just listened to the latest vid. Sounds good. I think the tubes will sound better though with M6. Still working towards that balance I think. Even with the so-called "warmer" Gryphon (as it pertains to its spot in Gryphon lineup, warmest of the three Meph, Const, Antill), I’m not sure it could get me to the happy place with M6. Don’t mistake this as ripping on the presentation - I just think room for more improvement with tubes or slightly warmer amp as better match with M6. Looking forward to the tubes. ymmv |
Remember, You are hearing the sound that i had in here one week ago... It is now different and you will hear that in a week or so... I'm not sure synergistic research works well with mágico just yet. I'm still playing with other cables. I've always said it, when you change components, you have to be ready to change something else since often times that is what needs to happen. |
You know, Jay, I don't understand your dislike of Soulution 530. Yes, it is not enough for the M6 but it is a very right direction. Despite certain shortcomings, to my ear, Soulution 530/ M6 is a better sound than Gryphon/M6. I compared directly a few times - same impression. Gryphon does not have the sophistication of Soulution, and again, Gryphon tries to play itself instead of leading the speakers. Cables have nothing to do with it, it is its nature. Others may disagree but that's how I hear it. Soulution separates or Boulder separates, that's what should take the sound of M6 to the highest level, I think. |
