@kren
A couple of days ago you said. "That makes 3 favoring Wilson over Magico."
Maybe it's time for a recount. I prefer Magico also....sorry bro.
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Not to mention $70k difference. But it's nothing for potential buyers, right ? |
I didn't mention any specific models. I just prefer Magico over Wilson.
"But it's nothing for potential buyers, right ?"
I have no idea what that means. |
Well... I will speak about my ownership of both speakers later on... I plan to do a video of living with m6 and Alexx and go over pros and cons of both. Then MAYBE i might disclose which speaker brand i prefer but that is quite controversial to do so i am not sure just yet.
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Haha, no worries. At the cost difference it would be surprising if most didn’t pick Magico.
Think of it this way. If Magico can’t make a $172k current speaker sound better than a discontinued $109k Wilson what would that say about Magico? |
We need to find a way to get big Boulders back in there, along with the Boulder preamp. Unless there is something SS even better those are top level, and I refuse to settle for anything less.
It means that usually those who can easily afford $100k speakers can also easily afford $170k speakers. We are talking about half a million dollars systems. |
OK inna understood, but I was speaking of the brand Wilson vs Magico in general. I like sealed speakers over ported because of less room interaction. Like Mike said on the latest video, he personally owned the Alexia and tried for a year to make it work in his room but couldn't get the sound to the level he wanted due to his problem room. Some of the best systems I have heard have used Wilson speakers....in good rooms. I went through rear ported, front ported and floor ported speakers and never got the bass to sound right in my room. I now have YG's (sealed cabinet) which are way easier to place in a problem room.
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Joecassey - point of clarification: I didn’t loose the line in 2018, I had a disagreement with the distributor and I dropped the line. It happens. Nothing personal, just business. We have since made amends. As you will see, I am carrying Franco Serblin speakers which are distributed by the same distributor. When I can muster together some pennies, we will bring in a 711 and 725 for demo. We continue to support our numerous Soulution customers to this day.
IMO, the 7 series is a completely different animal from the 5 series.
Not to spoil part 2, but the best I have ever heard the M6’s was with Soulution 701’s and a 725.
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Your ownership track record pretty much says it all. Not a big mystery. Even if you actually prefer the M6 to Alexx (which I have a guess as to the answer), the only way you’d be able to say you like Magico better is if M6 beat a higher priced Wilson for you, which you haven’t had, or if an equal or lower priced than Alexx Magico was better than Alexx for you.
Well I guess you could say anything you want but if we want to be logical about it would need one of those scenarios |
I have no problem with the opposing beryllium opinion. Everyone can have their own opinion. The only person my own opinion is definitely correct for is me. Wouldn’t ever try to tell others they’re wrong in what they like so long as they aren’t likewise trying to impose.
No absolutes in this game. Would be boring if there were |
Thanks for the correction Mike. Yep, shot happens and glad differences were ironed out. Current 5 and 7 series are fantastic and NO comparison to predecessor.
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Tight bass..that's what Mike said. Well, as Ralph of Atma-Sphere said once or twice - there is no such thing in reality as tight bass. Quite right. So if sealed speakers give you that then they are always wrong.
Soulution is an excellent match for the Magico, no doubt, they just need bigger Soulution amps.
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Actually talking about the M6's Mike said "the bass outstanding, world class in here it's phenomenal...it's full it's tight it's fast...I'll give it a 10/10. I don't know how we could improve the bass in here."
"Quite right. So if sealed speakers give you that then they are always wrong."
Wow inna....sounds like we have completely different views on how bass should sound.
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He doesn't know but I think I do. Bring Boulder/Gryphon in there. |
I wont forget @suncoast_audio face when the bass hit during the "poem of Chinese drum" song. It was as if a sledge hammer was hitting the wall behind the speakers.
Mike stands behind magico (as he should) but he isn’t all about mágico all the time. He also loves the sonus faber aida 2 just like i do.
The one thing i can say about Mike is that him and i have very similar taste buds when it comes to tonality.
We both have always said Gryphon and Boulder are killer components and this was way before him and i met a few years back. He’s always respected my journey.
I’ll actually share something with you which is that i have been the one telling him for quite sometime about Nordost cables and he finally listened to me and is now a Nordost dealer after he had a chance to hear their valhalla 2 series.
Yes, at the end of the day he’s a business and has to make money but i can say one thing about him which is that i have not seen him take on lines he doesn’t like sonically speaking. We’ve had many conversations about all sorts of brands that he doesn’t even carry but he really likes so he doesn’t only love what he sells.( He likes Martin logan, sonus faber, revel salon 2, etc and he isn’t a dealer for those brands). |
A port is basically a bass EQ. Can be fun on some cuts, but typically a major annoyance. It has other flaws, like messing up the time domain. Ported speakers sound a bit confused. The further thing from reality, for sure.
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@inna
haha...I will agree with you on that. |
I’ll buy that. He did make a less than glowing comment about Harbeth which appears to be a line he carries. Cool to find dealers that share your preferences and are willing to give honest advice |
Kren0006, don’t read too much into what I said. I said Harbeth’s add some flavor to the music. I’m a big fan of Harbeth and especially the 30’s. But that BBC tuning of the cabinets is a flavor. Some like the flavor, some don’t. A totally different philosophy than Magico’s, YG and Wilson (X material). One is trying to eliminate resonances and any cabinet impact on the sound. The other is embracing it and tuning the cabinet accordingly to 1960’s BBC findings and subsequent refinements. |
Wait, but WC says Harbeth sucks??? What gives?
Just kidding it’s a joke. I joke around a lot. Some get it, some don’t |
Wcss said i don’t like the sound based on what i heard ..too warm 🥵... Almost like the old sonus faber sound.....
Ok I'm about to get hosed by harbeth owners... |
Alright I’ll quit screwing around.
Serious question for the dealer: At what $$ level do you feel the sonic performance baton passes from integrated amp to separates (let’s say a separate preamp and stereo power amp, not monos)?
Assume space not a concern. Just want best SQ for the money.
$5k $8k? $10k? $15k? $20k? $30k? |
Great question. What we see generally, is the $10k price point for sonics. At $10k and below, space not being an issue, folks opt for an integrated. Above $10k, they start talking separates. There are of course exceptions like the Diablo 300 at $16k. |
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Since Jay completely spoiled me with his electronics, I can no longer accept anything but the top level. Which in my reality means that if thinking new equipment I will have to stick to integrated amps. The least expensive is I think Gryphon Diablo 120 and maybe some Accuphase. But with Accuphase I would only go with class A. No idea about Boulder integrated. I will take used Accuphase over new Luxman integrated any day. |
Something here just happened that never happened before.
The priciest speakers to come in WC’s room and that he played on YouTube, were majoritary juged by his audience and readers as « wtf is it just me but this sound just sux the artificial » .
And then well something else happened that had never happened before. All suddenly a DEALER appeared and came on video and just made a speach about just all perfect they sound and how perfect the Pass Labs can make them sound...
Huge first here.
And then WC said that the DCS Rossini, be prepared, sounds digital. Those two where litteraly saying it’s everything around the speakers which is the culprit.
Ok now, thats another huge first..
Sometime « panic » makes us, our goal, and the ones behind us and that goal intervene big time. You know the comforting sellers voice tone and perfect words that ressuscitate the believing.. |
Lovely sh!t talk from you... I bought a few pieces from Suncoast and he was nice enough to deliver them to me. Do you need me to email you the invoice too ? This is why I just opened an account over at audioshark about one hour ago so that i can begin to transition out once i feel it’s non sense to keep posting here due to the stupid narratives created. Maybe instead of defending myself here from the bs you present, i should be reading what Flemming Rasmussen is saying about me over there. In case you don’t know who he is then just Google it and you’ll know. Makes no sense for me to prove anything here when I am actually being greeted elsewhere. Maybe you should continue the show here techno with your rig. Plenty of peeps would love for you to step in. "Well i think we can learn a lot from Jay , all of us who can’t afford swapping gear like he can, and prior to Youtube hw was on a forum ( Audiogon ) telling about his findings , so going youtube just makes things more easy to understand what he mean / thinks about different combinations of gear. One can always try to explain in written words but it will never be the same as to listen to youtube.....and yes youtube is not perfect as one has to be in the actual room with the actual gear at that moment , to hear and understand what’s really going on. I at least think its great to have someone like Jay doing this stuff.
Flemming"
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@Techno
Now you are being rude and delusional. Do you always refer to yourself as ’"majoritary"?
Watch out, so the whopper’s ketchup does not mess up the vinyl seats.
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I heard a few interviews with Flemming Rasmussen and liked him enough. He likes large scale music, and for that I think his amps and big speakers should be great. Boulder might still do better but I don't know that.
I think, it makes sense to keep posting here, Audiogon is widely read. Some people sometimes say unpleasant things in a not very polite manner, true, so what ?
I didn't exactly enjoy the appearance of a dealer either, though, but what he says won't influence my impressions. And one of them is that Pass sucks, including with M6. Another is that there is nothing "glassy" about the Soulution 530. There is something in that direction because the speakers and maybe the amp too are not fully burnt in yet. And yet another is, I'll repeat, there is not enough bass there. I would appreciate more weight to the music as well, but that's my preference, Wilson direction. |
I have watched the latest Youtube.
It makes sense that Jay has chosen to request a assessment and second opinion of his present 'in use' system.
It makes more sense that he has chosen a individual with a known history in being familiar with some of the Brands being auditioned, as well as being familiar with some of the Brands that have been superseded.
To get the type of experience that Jay has wanted to represent him in a third party assessment of his latest guise of system and presentations offered to the Public.
He has obviously chosen a person whose Professional Views are trusted by himself.
In this case a Guy called Mike who is affiliated with South Coast Audio.
During his career he has obviously developed a ear for various presentations on offer from Hi End Devices and experienced the Devices in a variety of environments.
Mike has made a claim on one of his perceptions of the replay,
that has stuck with me more than his other descriptions.
The reference made to the 'Transparency' that he has perceived in the Performance of the 'M6'.
My HiFi experience has been evolving, so very similar to most enthusiasts experiences.
During the times of exposure to new experiences and investigations undertaken, a individual finds a direction they wish to pursue.
The Road Divide's for most Enthusiasts, this is not because they have found their Holy Grail System.
It is most commonly down to, 'how much colour' they like to perceive in their System..
The range of colour a individual is willing to tolerate is a unique condition, and only the individual can select the perceivable intrusion of noticeable colour they are satisfied with.
Mike also made the statement that the Pre>Power Combo with the Pass Power Amp was exceptional.
I am making the assumption this Combo was responsible for the Transparency that he had perceived.
He also shared that a Valve device used as a alternative might add to a perception of added colour.
I myself have heard another Brand of Speakers known for their Transparency, used with SS Pre > Power Amp's and Valve Pre > Amp's as well as other configurations.
I myself prefer a perceived Transparency in a presentation from a system, and have worked with maintaining this for many years.
Varying the Configurations of the above Amplification have always maintained the perception of Transparency,
even though there are noticeable changes when devices are exchanged.
As Mike claimed there are ways to change the Flavour/Seasoning.
From a personal View, when a Transparent Presentation is Wed to,
the created system offers a presentation that is difficult to detract from.
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I’m dropping my mbl prediction - now kinda doubting that those would make sense (ya, I know this is confusing to follow).
I actually now think it could be possible that the mystery amps already in WC’s room could already be Gryphon Solo Mephisto (which was part of my initial guess but was targeted for June, not now), either that or my real initial guess of Audio Research.
Stay chill, WC. Easier said than done but you’re usually pretty good at it.
Techno, I’m no angel either but no need to be difficult just for the sake of it. As I said previously, you should be giddy (or did I say "jolly?") now given your disdain for Wilson Audio and it’s now-3-week absence from the room. Cheer up, dude! You don’t know how long it’ll be until a new Wilson returns, as it inevitably will given that WC likes Wilson so much better than anything else : ) (see, I try to tweak him too sometimes : ), can’t help it) Save your crabiness for when the Wilson returns dude! |
Inna, you said "I will take used Accuphase class A integrated over new Luxman every day" Can you please elaborate on this? Did you hear latest Luxman 590axII?. Currently I have accuphase e-800 and luxman 590axII. And I would say that it depends on the speakers. On my Sonus Faber I prefer Luxman. More involving with bigger sounstage, better dynamics and the same level of details. Accuphase has great synergy with B&W speakers. Overall (to me) it possess great tonality but more suitable for more near field, intimate listening. It generates very delicate, refined sound, but its less involving than Luxman. The Accuphase class A separates like A-75 and A-250 monos and their top models pre-amps are the different ball game so. |
WC had an Accuphase integrated and didn’t like it at all is my recollection. You can find the video on his YT channel. Don’t recall the Accuphase model.
By contrast, WC said the Luxman L590AXII is the best amplifier (integrated or otherwise) available that he has had under $12k msrp, and he said that right after reviewing the Pass Labs $12k msrp integrated, whichever one that is (Pass int-250 I think).
You can see his video where WC declares the 590AXII one of his top 3 amps for bang for buck (along with m900u and Gryphon Constellation), and his comment on L590AXII being better than anything at $12k or lower msrp came in direct response to me asking him that question on this thread, maybe 80 pages back, haha |
To me luxman 590axii class A is better than pass int-250. And I had pass int-250 twice in my system. Pass may be a little more dynamic, but luxman is more organic with great bass and details. It does not have that harshness/hardness that many class AB (with exception of megabuck amplifiers) have. A while ago I made a comment that out of many integrated I had in my house (accuphase e-800, e-470, plinius hiato, gamut 150 le, pass int-60 and plass int-250, luxman 509x, gryphon diablo 300 and some others) I rated accuphase e-800 as number one followed by luxman 590axii and Gryphon. After many hours of listening in my system to me now the luxman 590axii takes number one spot (again for me) on that list followed by Gryphon 300 and pass int-250. Of course speaker matching/synergy is a must. |
Wow. That is impressive. First I’ve heard a first-person ownership account that rates the Luxman L590axii as better than Gryphon Diablo 300 based on actual ownereship and living with both.
Impressive for Luxman indeed.
this is why we need that 8-way integrated survivor shootout |
@techno
Not sure what you are accusing Jay and Mike of doing here. In the video Mike clearly said he stopped by to drop off some 'toys'....a world class amp that he delivered and was going to help set up. It sounded to me like Jay caught him off guard and decided to conduct an impromptu video and get his impression of what he heard. Sounded like Mike was being honest about what he heard with the Pass and Soulution gear....Also whether you are in the Wilson or Magico camp, the M6's have created quite a buzz....a positive buzz.
Seems like you wait just to find something to blow way out of context. If you're not happy with the way Jay conducts this thread and his YouTube channel why waste your time with it? I think you need to find more things to occupy your time.
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WC,
Do you still use the SR ground products and platform products, or are those completely gone now?
Dave
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Thanks for the added context Ron17.
Dave:
I am still running synergistic research (i typically list the components playing as seen on the latest comparisons)
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denon1:
Which speakers have you seen be really good with Luxman L590axii and which if any were not? |
I’ll say it here first:
I just paid for wilson Audio Chronosonic and relentless monoblocks. Stay tuned for more |
kren0006, with luxman 590axii - magico A3 and even A5, latest sonus faber nova series (btw SF did a very good job on them -easy to drive, fast, detailed, well balanced), proac, harbeth, focal kanta 2/3, and even sopra 2. |
Hmmmmmmmm (in response to WC's early April announcement) |
And I just bought a pair of M6's...thx Jay for your help! |
denon1:
That’s a pretty wide swath (Focal/Magico to Harbeth)! Was there anything the Luxman didn’t mate particularly well with? |
@whitecamaross
Is that the XVX or the Wamm Master? |
kren0006,
You were right again!!
Dave
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I think Jays statement about the Chronosonic is his April fools joke lol!! Don’t get your hopes up. |
@carey1110
Ha, that makes sense. |
