My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Anytime you are looking at gear of this price point & caliber you are pretty much only talking to about 5% (or maybe less) of the audiophile community.
Maybe I will be the first person to ever show boulder 2150 with Mephisto driving Alexx? Full Boulder vs full Gryphon? Or are the Alexx on their way out to make room for my new replacement? Chronosonic?
WC, since you just purchased the Alexx, I bet that your next move is to get either the Boulder 2150 monoblocks or to purchase Gryphon monoblocks. You are playing in the big leagues with the Alexx and these bad boy speakers need to be punished with a ‘lot’ of watts! You already have the respective preamps to create a match made in heaven!
Ladies & Gentlemen: i feel like announcing it here and not making anyone wait: Boulder 2150 monoblocks are coming and they will be battling the Mephisto.
WHERE, WHO has ever done this? FULL BOULDER SET UP VERSUS FULL GRYPHON?????? On video, for the entire world to see?????. Only at Jay’s Audio Lab... 2020 will go down and out with a BANG! and i expect this shoot out to beat any other shoot out i have ever done HANDS DOWN! Will the Danish manufacturer beat one of America’s best ultra high-end manufacturers? yes it is happening, and it will go down. I wish we were not in the pandemic so i can have EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU come in to my room to hear both giants battle it out for bragging rights !
I see some deleted posts, bet I don’t have to think long or hard about whose. The nice thing about this thread is Christmas is 12 months a year. The only thing I can think of to get Jay for Christmas is more hours in a day, he already has or has had everything else, lol.
I agree, the Mephisto is going to be fighting on 6 cylinders instead of 12. That said, what if we discover that the mephisto is a V6 twin turbo? that is what is beautiful about this entire thing... A couple of friends already said that the result will be simple: the winner will be based on my preference and not one beating the other.
Preference.. I concur. Whilst the remaining of equal importance is imo, Synergy—interaction/s with the front end and cabling used. This will easily tipped outcome one way or to the other. Goodluck, have fun!
Incredible! The pace of this journey and level of equipment seem to continue to accelerate and sure are enjoyable to witness. We are all the armchair beneficiaries of the time intensive/behind the scenes hard work and literal heavy lifting. Take care of that back!! Thanks again WC
Jay, I got to listen to the Chronosonics with Boulder 3060/2110 setup. It’s a sound you never forget. I think both amps will do well with the Alexx (no losers at this level).
Well guys, as i sit there, listening to "simply man by Lynyrd Skynyrd" i wonder HOW CAN THINGS GET ANY BETTER?? HOW??? The Mephisto is INSANE. I really don’t know how Boulder 2150s can come in here and do anything better? it is one of those questions that you can’t answer until you are doing the experiment. I don’t know WHAT will be different or how the Alexx will respond to 1,000 wats of class A, but that is why i keep doing what i am doing; To find out for myself. The battle of the 2 biggest amp manufacturers with their respective linestages and with an incredible speaker that will do justice to both presentations.
I am very THANKFUL to be able to share this with you all and i am happy that I can bring this into your own home. i really don’t know which setup i will end up staying with because i need to really live with each and decide. What i can say, is that by the end of December i will have selected my reference system to begin 2021. Will i choose the Boulder and send the Mephisto/Pandora to a new home? or will i send the Boulder 2150/2110 away? One thing is for sure, whichever system i choose will be mostly based on my personal preference and the one that checks more boxes for me rather than one being better than the other.
Apparently Wilson is aware of my channel (was told today) and they are wanting to put someone here in my room to set up my speakers. I have requested for Peter Mcgrath to come in here to do the set up. Will it become a reality? We will find out :-)
Who would have known that what started for me as simple boredom a few years ago is now where it is today? One day i will share a few more anecdotes about my early beginnings in this hobby. Maybe some of you are walking the same path i walked years ago and not know? wouldn’t that be something else? Regardless of where we go next, as long as i am healthy and life permits, i promise you all i will keep bringing what is not being done by anyone else.
Mephisto stereo 175wpc vs. Boulder monoblocks 1,000wpc... Shouldn't the power difference make it more than just about preference? The Boulders are almost 6X as powerful. Time will tell :)
Jay, maybe Peter McGrath is still down in South Florida, he sold me a home theater working for Cello in Ft, Lauderdale 20 years ago. I think he also came to my home in Miami to adjust the Statements, consulting for Martin Logan at the time
@whitecamaross jay many congratulations on getting both boulder and gryphon. you are doing something which very few can dream of even as reviewers. thanks a lot for your persistence and hardwork and bringing such experimentative perspective for high end. i always felt this thread got a bit sidetracked with some magnepans, benchmart,bryston talk etc and some mindless criticism sucking the energy of this thread. nothing wrong but its just you are doing some very unique things it makes total sense to continue doing that in the zone of ultra high end stuff. keep up your great work and thanks a lot for your imagination and hardwork
i do not think sasha daw and alexia 2 have boomy bass by any stretch of imagination.its all about tuning them correctly and mating them with right set of components.
@whitecamaross - jay , may be once you are done with gryphon and boulder, think about nagra HD or VTL.these both have fantastic synergy with alexx and sometimes you do not need the amount of power of gryphon or boulder.may be with lesser powered amplifier you will have more control over tuning the speakers in terms of bass and you might have better precision, resolution and clarity in midrange and highs too.
Interesting article? No really IMO. He only looks at names from manufacturers that promote in N. America. Take a look at the ezine Mono$Stereo and you will dozens of manufacturers you've never heard of with prices that match or exceed what is mentioned in the article. Now I've not heard/listened to any so will not say anything about sound quality but I do like and believe Matej Isak the reviewer there than almost any other from US or Canadian mags. Again just my opinion. (You did ask :-) )
a bunch of big, boring SS behemoths with miles of transistors. I'd take Dart, Nagra, Luxman etc. over all of them on reasonably efficient speakers.
that's the problem though. speakers keep getting harder and harder to drive. even old Wilsons were easy (X2), but this Alexx gets below 2 ohms in the bass. Magicos, Rockports, YG, etc. are all requiring 400 watts into 4 to wake up. Focal is one of the few that doesn't.
so when WCSS raves and raves about the Mephisto, maybe that's just because its always on inefficient speakers. my guess is his tune changes on efficient ones where you really hear the first watt.
How badly do the Alexx beat the Focal Stella? Tell us how they compare
Not surprised that kren0006 would think that the Alexx beats the Focal Stella. Interesting though that this question is not getting answered by WC....perhaps in due time.
WC, if Stella beats Alexx, tell us that too. Maybe it does. Given that it’s msrp is $31k higher (almost the price of new Sasha DAW’s), Stella should win.
kren0006, What's negative? "Not surprised" based upon your posted preferences. As you deduce based upon WC's posts/videos, I also deduce based upon your posts. I thought it was just interesting that your question was not - which one is better - but rather, how bad does the Alexx beat the Focal Stella.
I myself would not know, so I would be interested in hearing WC's answer. Dave
Congratulations on Boulder 2150 amp. It is a beast of the amplifier and and a worthy competitor to Mephisto. The specs are quite impressive, but the stated 1000W power rating is the peak power rating, which is not the same as Gryphon’s 175W RMS power rating. This article explains the difference: https://www.mwrf.com/technologies/systems/article/21120862/whats-the-difference-between-rms-and-peak... Also, the topology is not clear: it consumes only 250W vs Mephisto’s 700W, so it cannot be the same true class A amplifier as Mephisto is.
@whitecamaross jay i just heard peter mcgrath saying that the cabling inside wilson alexx is transparent opus series. just in case if you want to try or play/experiment by using transparent opus Speaker Cables /IC for maximum synergy. i have to come to believe that in high end most of the amplifiers and speakers are very transparent and neutral and cable is the least transparent among all and greatly affects the sonic output and listening impressions.
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