Those that have not played seriously with technology think in simple terms. They think that if a speaker has lower mass (like a planar) then the sound will be purer and faster. If there was only one thing at play....then yes, that would be true. But there are infinite things that effect the sound. You are not hearing what a "planar sounds like" when you are listening to a stock Magnepan. You are listening to custom planar panels executed by one company. There are lots of people who have modded their maggies to get way better sound. The frame is flimsy...killing speed, dynamics and clarity.....the xover uses ordinary parts, the wiring is ordinary, they have fuses in series with both the mids and highs that ruin the sound, the input terminals are bad, the padding thang is bad....on and on. Just not done very well at all from a purist point of view. This is why the GT Audio speaker would kill any stock Maggie. His midrange has nothing but great wire and a binding post in front of it.. If you want to hear what is possible with a maggie then you have to mod the crap out of it. Even the 30.7 is done the same way. That would need just as much modding as the 20.7. If you are a plug and play guy then you will never know what any technology can do. You are simply hearing one manufacturers (usually very compromised from my point of view) execution. You can take the same drivers in any speaker and every manufacturer would come up with a different sounding speaker. Every single thing you do makes a sonic difference. Look at Wilson speakers....they have jumpers between the bottom box and the top box....with another sonically compromising set of connectors.....they use Caddock power resistors to pad the tweeter, etc. Caddock resistors are grey/veiled sounding. If you bypass a power Caddock with a nude Vishay foil resistor in parallel it sounds way, way better. It is no wonder that the speaker does not have the clarity of the Focal. If you hardwired the bottom box to the top box and did the Vishay resistor parallel thang, you would drop your jaw. Every manufacturer that I have ever seen that uses cone midranges and woofers.....hooks the speaker wires to the termnals on the drivers. These termminals are either super high mass binding posts or low mass brass or copper tabs. Even the low mass tabs veil the sound. You want to hardwire your wire from the xover directly to the voice coil wire. This is not unsafe or unreliable. It does take a few seconds longer however, and you cannot use fast connects. However, it sounds way, way better. The midrange of the Focal would befaster and purer if the midrange drivers were wired this way. This is why us DIYers can take excellent off the shelf drivers and execute a speaker with super tweak precision and get sound that is out of this world great and costs very little.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Noted. My problem is I’m not a tweaker and am I about to embark on modding any speaker besides the typical jumper or spike upgrade. I don’t buy an Alexia 2 or Stella or mephisto to also embark on modding it. I’m not sure I’ll ever do panels again. I have my own personal reasons which might not be the same for everyone else. The only thing I can say is that my Stella evo convinced me that I don’t need huge panels for purity and clarity. It wiped that stupidity out of my head. I’m a big believer in beryllium tweeter. I’ll leave it at that. I also decided to connect my simaudio 650d cd player straight into the boulder 2110 and play some cds and that was the biggest BIGGEST revelation ever. The 650d sounded broken when connected direct into the 2110 but when I connected it to my dcs ROSSINI using AES , it sounded as if someone remastered the recordings. I have to try to take a video of this for you all to hear it. |
Hear that? No more panels for WC. So let’s try to stick to discussing the stuff WC has and has had previously, or at least the stuff he has not preemptively dismissed, like panels which would include GTA, and would also include sub-100k Wilsons that he hasn’t previously had (I guess that’s Sabrina, Yvette, Tune Tot). That is WC’s polite way of saying please don’t pollute this thread with talk of the GTA which he has no interest in. If F and V want to discuss, that’s what PM for or start new thread. Take a hint. If he changes his mind down road that’s different but for now he’s made his intentions clear. I’m going to go out on a limb now and predict the Focal Stellas are gone and Magico on the way. Just a hunch. Probably low probability of being correct but let’s see...... |
@stargazer3: i echo your sentiments. If i am paying 70, 80, 100, 200k etc, etc and I STILL NEED to do MORE work on my end other than the typical set up, spikes, etc, then i am not interested. It could be my personality though. I don't have patience to be using aluminum foil on heatsinks, dimes under the spikes, quarters under equipment feet, or aluminum cans to get the cables off the floor. I am not that "intense" but i don't judge those that love to discover what else can be gained by doing those extra tweaks. |
Reason I listed Yvette, Sabrina and Tune Tot obviously not because they are panels (duh, they're not), but because WC also recently said he's done with sub-100k Wilson because he's happy with what he'd done there already (Sasha DAW, Alexia, Alexia 2) - been there, done that. So even though I really like Wilson, I'm not gonna pester WC to get Yvette, for example, or to try the new SabrinaX. (because he's said he's not interested, just like he said he's not interested in panels going forward) |
@kren0006, I thought Jay’s issues with the 20.7s were mainly impact, weight, and inability to pressurize the room, ie not muscular? The GTA panels combined with SI OB subs with 6 12" woofers per channel absolutely can pressurize any room and reach deep with explosive impact while mating seamlessly with the panels as both are radiating the same way, maybe Jay will be able to hear them at an audio fest sometime in 2021? |
You’d have to ask WC for his reasons, although he’s also said he has no interest in subwoofers because he wants to hear the power amplifier’s sound for bass, not some subwoofer amplifier for bass. All I know is just a couple posts up he said basically he doubts he’ll get panels again and that he has his reasons for that statement. So out of deference to his wishes, I suggest we avoid polluting the thread with stuff he’s told us he is not interested in, like panels and sub-100k Wilson that he hasn’t previously owned - Sasha DAW, Alexia 1 and 2 obviously good for discussion since he’s had them (longer than any other speakers). Other things he’s told us he’s not interested in are classical music and turntables and modding and subwoofers off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. |
Jay, i totally agree, perfecting setup and room treatment is one thing, but major modifications to very well made audio equipment is to much for me. You might be able to dial down/up the treble or bass output of a speaker that does not have adjustability, but you can also mess up the whole tonal balance. Some very talented designers did the best they could already, and unless your name is Gayle Sanders or Nelson Pass, chances are you will just make it different, not better ! |
I just feel that panels require more work to tune them properly plus the huge amount of space. You got subs to place somewhere, then the huge panels, then trying to dial them in correctly and probably getting crossovers. It becomes too much "investment" outside of the price itself. This doesn't mean they don't sound incredible, but it's kinda like owning a Mazda rotary engine which is also incredible and can rev to 9,000 RPM but it needs to be taken apart and rebuilt completely after a certain mileage. I'm not sure I want to deal with the mandatory engine overhaul that these engines need. |
Yes the size of the panels make the aesthetic of a panel speaker somewhat a non starter for many Audiophiles. That was one of the many design changes that have gone into our R&D of the new Reference 3. An even better Planar driver with only approximately an 18 inch footprint. Stay Tuned- ETA to Sound Insight expected delivery very soon. |
Ricevs made important points about how one single factor doesn't determine the overall sound. I like the theoretical advantages of beryllium, but I heard audiotroy's Jern cast iron speaker beat the all-Be Paradigm Personal B for clarity. The Jern uses a non-Be tweeter. Maybe the totally rigid cast iron enclosure is a bigger factor for its sound quality. Maggies have mediocre construction, but the open baffle nature of panels is in their favor. Everything is on the table. An open mind is most important. |
This is an EXCELLENT video. Wilson versus martin logan. Or Wilson versus panels maybe ?? https://youtu.be/zxj0La1mw08 |
WC: "I’m not sure I’ll ever do panels again." kren0006: "Hear that? No more panels for WC. So let’s try to stick to discussing the stuff WC has and has had previously, or at least the stuff he has not preemptively dismissed, like panels which would include GTA..." kren0006, Again, you are putting in efforts to tell folks what to do and try to control the thread. The problem is that WC did not say "I'm sure" - he said "I'm not sure". And, as we know with WC, anything is possible. So, the statement you made - "No more panels for WC" - might not be accurate. Just a thought here - I think if we just let folks have their couple of posts, it gets done and we move on. Sure, it can get brought up again, but one quick post by WC and things move on. For example, it was just brought up again about doing all sorts of mods to panels, and WC quickly addressed it with a post that basically lets those folks know that he does not want to mess with mods, and he also does not look down on those who do them. Cool, we can now move on. Dave |
So far, i have to say that I also prefer Wilson’s and Focal over panels. The ease of just doing almost a "plug and play" is what is attractive to me. Panels certainly have a place in my heart because they do things that conventional speakers can’t do but once you go through very respectable speaker models you soon realize how good they can be without having to do a ton of tweaks or assembling lots of things around the speaker to make them sound incredible (subs, crossovers, space, room behind the speaker, etc, etc) I could go back to panels in the future but right now that thought is very far away from me. I want to explore more top end speakers before I do that. |
Wow, I called it again on Magico! (should have taken the bet, haha) Focal lasts only 2 weeks after Wilson lasted a year across 3 speakers. Wow. From yesterday: "I’m going to go out on a limb now and predict the Focal Stellas are gone and Magico on the way. Just a hunch." Pay attention to how long things last in the room, the true barometer. |
Ya when I set over/under at New Year I could not conceive that the post-Wilson honeymoon would not last at least 1.5 months with a $140k speaker. dang, that was quick. Even 4 days ago when the Maggies showed up on new video for no apparent reason I think I said something like "the Focal experiment is ongoing, or is it?" Then a pre-recorded Focal video came after but it all seemed strange. Just had a feeling they were already gone, and finally got to the point yesterday where I was willing to go out on a limb and predict it, including calling the replacement. |
Could be - that actually wouldn’t surprise me one bit. You cannot stay away from Wilson. And come to think of it: Focal + Maggie gets you close to new Magico plus Alexx cost wise, I’m guessing, with Alexx out there used in the 60’s ... Boy would that ever piss techno and viber off if you right away go straight up the Wilson ladder so soon after seeing Alexia 2 depart, haha. Their dream speaker Focal gone in 2 weeks, see ya. FWIW, I still think the DAWs and the Collosseum were best fit for the room. Just my opinion (but the barometer test of longevity agrees with me) |
Well the easy thing to do would be to quit while I’m ahead......but that’s no fun. So before the paint has even dried on the amazing $140k Focal out, Magico in call that nobody else saw coming, I’m already gonna make the next call. I predict that before long (probably before Thanksgiving) we will see Wilson Alexx in WC’s room. Why? 1. Most importantly, WC cannot live without the Wilson Audio sound. He’s had it for nearly a year straight, and each of last two times he ditched Wilson, purportedly for something better, the something was gone before we knew it and a bigger and better Wilson had taken its place. (yes DAW better than Alexia 1 because newer technology). 2. It would be highly out of character for WC to replace the $140k Focal with something he expects to be inferior. Nothing against the Magico, but he does not expect them to beat the Focal. But he does expect Alexx to. See, the Magico’s are a distraction. The big fish is coming. 3. His denial of Wilson "not interested in any sub-100k Wilson" was too specific and something nobody was wondering about. Nobody expected him to move down the Willson chain, only up, and that only left six figure options remaining. The denial felt like someone trying to throw investigators off the scent, but it backfired. 4. The "once you have a six figure speaker" comment today was also a tell. 5. WC says he wasn’t impressed with Alexx at a show. Yet we know he has pursued Alexx previously (he told us) but it fell through. So he obviously has gotten over any supposed underwhelm. And if he has pursued something previously you can be sure he will again. I think what happened is he got a call with something he couldn’t refuse for Alexx, and the Focals had to go. The Magico’s now replace the 20.7 as the "budget" speaker (must be nice!). You all think they’re the main course, but they’re the appetizer. Wilson Alexx arriving in 3....2.... (if that language looks familiar, recall that I used it to predict right after he got Maggie 3.7i that he’d be getting 20.7 before too long) |
kren0006 in full sherlock holmes mode and i love it. his theory looks valid. i remember hearing WC only very recently stating how the deal hadn't happened (it was in the midst of a 34 min spiel on youtube so easy to miss) re: alexx and there was a hint of energy in him saying that - like he was a bit pissed about it. |
Timing is key with what I do. Timing is what dictates my next move 9 times out of 10. I can't control timing but when it swings in my direction, i need to be ready for it. This is exactly what happened with my Stella. I wasn't prepared to sell them but i have to look at the bigger picture and keep focused. There is no such thing as being lucky. It is about being prepared when opportunity knocks on your door. The magico m3 could very well end up like the stellas did. I got bigger plans, bigger fish to fry but as I dive into deeper waters, i gotta be ready to swim. So while the m3s are here, I'll try to pump out videos and give my opinion because tomorrow might never come. |
It is too bad that the Stellas did not have a longer run. We got several videos but would have been nice to see such an expensive speaker a bit longer. I honestly have no recollection of WC’s previous time with Magico. So yeah WC if you expect time with Magico to be short make sure to record a bunch of videos. It's a brand that's much harder to find in dealers compared to Wilson or Focal (at least in the midwest) so the Magico videos will be extremely helpful for those without access to hear in person. |
I think siencecop is right. For as long as Jay has been shooting videos of his systems I don't think any speaker has been properly secured to the floor. They have all been on rollers or just sitting on their bases (without spikes). When I bought and applied Nordost SortFut and laser leveled them in, it brought a level of pinpoint focused detail and tight bass that I was stunned and pleasantly surprised.....I do understand that in Jay's situation he needs to move speakers in and out constantly, but to get everything out of a speaker you must either couple or decouple them to the floor. |
I really admire Jay's ability to resist getting too emotionally involved in a product and to let the timing of deals and availability of new gear drive his choices. It seems like he loved the Stellas, but an offer to buy them came quickly and M3s were offered at the "right" price so he pulled the trigger. I don't think this means Jay is done with Focal, he might climb the Focal ladder next time with Grande Evos? I bet he's on the lookout for a pair of Alexx and maybe has an eye on a Cygnus or Lyra from Rockport or an Agoria or Sunray from Tidal? Thanks Jay for letting us enjoy your ride through Summitt-Fi! |