Here one other example of Gryphon Mephisto paired with CH Precision linestage : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x39NjGVZk0&t=14s
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Horns, pure class A amplification, digital, on a old Rod Stewart limited recording. What do you think? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVR_CbvhOEw |
I really liked the Merrill, Wilson, ARC sound. Not so much the Gryphon and Fyne. I’m sorry to hear that the Mephisto is not living up to expectations to this point WC. You probably had built it up too much at the outset (“the end,” “probably will never be able to improve on this,” “maybe last amp I’ll ever buy”), none of those statements really fit your deal of churning thru gear (no negative connotation intended by that statement) so in some ways maybe you were bound to be underwhelmed. Anyway, this isn’t the first time that initially things are underwhelming and you will get it figured out. Keep it in perspective and take a longer term view and let the presentation come to you. Eventually you will hit on the right combination . what is refreshing is that you continue to tell it like it is. No sugar, no fluff. Right now the mephisto isn’t carrying its weight and you are telling us that. But it isn’t broken in and maybe you still need to find the complementary parts. Keep up the great work. What a ride this is to follow along on |
People honestly either don’t listen or don’t watch the videos. I’m sick of repeating myself. I said it AND SHOWED IT ON THE DAMN VIDEO: DO YOU SEE A STAND UNDER THE MEPHISTO? did I not address that I ordered one already ? Did I say anywhere I swapped out fuses on anything ? I’ll say it differently and maybe with a simpler sentence: MEPHISTO IS NOT OKAY with something in my system and if you watched the video last night, you heard me say THIS. Yes it does sound good but MY INSTINCT tells me there is something NOT RIGHT or OFF. It feels as if it plays good and then it misses certain instruments or bells and whistles that the Merrill and ARC combo is hitting home runs on. It is as if you are driving a Porsche 911 at 150 mph and it does not ride better or more "composed" than a Camaro SS does at the same speed. No camaro Ss should ride better than a Porsche 911 at high speeds. Would you accept that fact if you had both cars in your garage ? No right ? You would be trying to figure out if you have low tire air pressure, the right fuel, are the motor mounts shot ? Is something loose ? Etc etc. That's where I am at. |
@thieliste Thanks for posting the link to the Gryphon Mephisto paired with CH Precision linestage. Very precise and detailed presentation. What I found most interesting though was the 4 (2 stacked in each corner of the front wall) traps. What I believe those to be are AVAA C20 Active Bass Traps. https://www.psiaudio.swiss/avaa-c20-active-bass-trap/ Very interesting technology for controlling and absorbing room modes (excessive bass) between 15 and 150hz. I am currently researching these units for my listening room.....Anybody know anything about these units? |
The more parts in it and complex an amplifier is , the more chances it will not give you the best sota resolving power and transparency of a well made more simple design (with a shorter signal path ). Add to that the fact that having lots of capacitors or resistors increases the chance one may get defective or out of balance with the other ones...We often see that with R2R ( ladder resistors) dacs these days... It could be the case here with the Mephisto. Sometimes, engineers just try to do too much and forget about the vertues of simplicity... |
Wilson tends to do this with audio Research, Momentum, and focal does it with boulder amps. All manufacturers always work with another brand to fine tune things. WE THE END USERS are the guinea pigs that are left trying different combos and burning cash. That is part of the hobby though. Ain't a damn thing we can do about it. |
I have heard from my local dealer that Nordost and Gryphon do not play well together. So much so that they brought on another cabling manufacturer into their lineup that they previously didn’t carry before adding Gryphon. This was not your experience with the Colliseum... perhaps this is the case with the Mephisto as you may have alluded to in the video. Your point of needing to find the right cabling and components to a new amp obviously well taken. |
It's the same cables you had. The vanta line isn't shipping yet. Mephisto Is a damn race car. I'm gonna put that son of a gun to fire at full class a bias for 3 days straight without shutting it off and see if it does the vodoo the pass labs xs300 did. I need to breathe, relax, not let it get to me and keep doing my thing with it. |
I suppose it does seem like it's getting to you WC - e.g. one of your most recent posts, where you go off about folks not watching the video. Wonder how that impacts any newcomers to the thread? And for folks who prefer forums over videos - it's probably not great for them either. Anyway, I'm glad I read your thread AND watch your videos :-) I do understand, it's a lot of money for that Mephisto, so it's probably a bit frustrating at the moment. Dave |
Frustrating indeed... That said, I think today I found the difference maker and why I’ve been struggling. On a side note: does anyone here know where I can get an adapter that makes a 20a powercord fit into a 15a power amp? Meaning the receptacle on the back of the amp is 15a and I need a 20a power cord to fit in there. I know Amazon has these but I am looking for something of decent quality. Thoughts ? |
Well, some people just like to read, others like videos. Most of my free time I spend multitasking, watching tv with the family and reading on my ipad. To watch videos I would have to use EarPods or something similar which I’m not too fond of. This thread is just entertainment for me and I do watch an occasional video as I have several hobbies but only then as a last resort. You want people to watch your videos because it eventually could be a source of revenue (Advertisers) to help offset all your hard work. I don’t blame you, I would want that too and I fully understand. |
WC Purist Audio sells that type of adapter: http://www.puristaudiodesign.com/Data/products/misc/adp.html# |
folks take it easy, who are cheering down gryphon after WC’s observation. iam sure WC/jay with his extensive experience with amps is going to find the root cause, tame the gryphon and bring back the synergy soon and WC’s observation on Merrill is spot on.their Gallium Nitride based amps do not sound anything like class D and i know 3 folks who own this amp and everyone who uses it supremely satisfied.the designer has created a magical amp. @zprr the task of designing one great universal cable for different amps and speakers is a very difficult one and almost impossible. a cable has to match and optimize according to the load (speaker) and source (amp) impedances. in a way i like the strategy adopted by transparent cables ,where they build the reference and higher series cables.they ask you what specific components you are using and design for specific amp and speaker models. same like what MIT cable does for spectral amps.i think it is the best approach. at the higher end audio segment if we are paying big bucks for cables ,customizing the cables is something all manufacturers should follow |
Another decent looking adaptor. https://voodoocable.net/product/premium-silver-20-amp-to-15-amp-iec-adapter/ |
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i just ordered the voodoo adapters. The trials and games are about to begin.
I am now on a mission and pissed off. Very pissed off. I refuse to let my instinct beat me. |
I listened and saw. What I hear is someone talking about something (Mephisto) when they should be burning in and tweaking. You will never know how good it is unless you tweak. Why would you ever talk about something just sitting on the floor, using bad fuses and not burned in? Yes, you are getting in an amp stand. But you could be using some $100 footers and some great wood right now and already have better sound. You have never played with fuses. You will never never ever hear the Mephisto or any product do it’s ULTIMATE thing unless you replace the stock crap sounding fuses with serious audiophile fuses.....which cost nothing compared to trying to "fix" the Mephisto with multithousand $ Gryphon cables. Sure, the Gryphons could be better than the Nordost.....but then there are a ton of other cables out there that could also be better than the Nordost......and all of them cost way more than a $20-$225 fuse.....well, you need two for the Mephisto. And after all my prodding you still have your cables on the rug......yikes....you want to hear SOUNDSTAGE?????????????? Just take some cardboard right now and prop up all your cables.....will take 30 minutes.....it will blow your mind. Just cut carboard say 3 inches by 8 inches and fold in the middle and use it as a pyramid to hold up the cables.....you can cut a little groove at the top where the cable can lie, if you like....or you can do this kind of thing: http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Recommended_Components_and_Twea.html Then you can try damping the heatsinks on the beasto. Might not make much difference as the heatsinks are mostly different vibrations....this tweak works wonders on something like the Parasound that has all its heatsinks the same length. If you run your fingernail across the heatsinks and you hear a Zinnnnnngggggg.....then that sound is being injected into the signal......Try the test on the Parasound and it will be like playing a tin harp......then damp the heatsinks with most anything.....the amp will sound noticeably better. I will check back in a month and if you have not improved.....I will write a note to your mother. Your report card will not look good. Do you want to get to audio graduate school? You better shape up! kiddo......he he.... I just cannot take any of this very seriously. But I try to help people get better sound. Some take my advise....most do not. That is the way it is. I love it.....I love the way it is....but your mother will not like the note....he he..... While I was typing you said you are getting cable lifters for your whole system......your report card is improving.....keep it up. |
WC, What exactly don't you like about the Mephisto/ARC vs Merrill/ARC? Your voice on the video was soft, and maybe I missed it. Just be objective and describe the differences, before you go on a wild goose chase with preamps, cables, etc. I assume the Merrill and Mephisto had the same cables, so the intrinsic differences between the amps can be described. Don't retreat into your mixing and matching thing, because then you introduce too many variables. The Mephisto probably needs more break in time, or maybe the power line quality was so bad at the time you heard the Mephisto. I have had experiences with power line variations swamping differences between amps. However, I suspected something was up when you continued to evade our requests for comparative reviews of Mephisto and Merrill. |
All- Mephisto, Merrill or any big amp of mine will never see a power conditioner. I know my variables with both set ups and i think i have found the reason behind the outcome from both systems. As far as Mephisto vs Merrill: Why throw an amp under the fire without being properly set up? HOW MANY times have i done that in the past and i got flamed for it and now i am being asked to do it? REALLY? "oh Jay it is on the floor, it has factory fuses, it has factory powercords, it is not under stillpoints, it needs a lamp cord, it needs weights on top, it needs aluminum foil on the heatsinks, etc" There was one variable that was not kept the same with both set ups and i never thought that it would totally do what it did with the Merrill. I also did not expect for the Alexia 2 to be the microscope that they are. RIGHT NOW, and for AS LONG AS I OWN Alexia 2, I CAN NO LONGER get away with the sh1T i was getting away with before. Cables that were good before are now just "decent" with the Mephisto and Alexia 2. They take a MRI of your system and can find the weaknesses internally and totally piss you off. For example, a cable that you probably rated 8/10 before is now a 5 or 6. You can hear the muddiness, muffling effect, lack of bass, collapsed soundstage, etc the minute you select an inferior cable. It is LITERALLY that ruthless with you. I can now talk to you AT LENGTH and in detail the differences between Audioquest Dragon and Hurricane. Before, i only knew there was a slight change in tonality and overall improvement in the soundstage between both. I knew the Dragon was better than the Hurricane, but in this system? man, the change is like taking out a complete dac and replacing it with a new one (not kidding). What is the best part of this? It is that i will be able to tell you all MORE about what each new and future component will do. I will be able to tell you EXACTLY what a cable brand will do, add, deduct, enhance, decrease, etc. I will be far more articulate with each component’s strengths and weaknesses. Before, i was only able to call out things at a high level, but now i can reach new depths that will let me communicate the effects of everything. That is the most beautiful part out of all of this and it is what is exciting me deep down. I am "graduating" my hearing to new heights and putting them in front of a clear window without any obstacles. Did you all get to hear how AWESOME the Merrill Audio Element 118s sounded on my last video or am i the only who thought so? THAT IS EXACTLY what i am talking about; The transparency here let’s you hear so much more than before. When was the last time in any of my videos that you heard the Merrill Audio sound as good as they did on my last video? NEVER. I have received messages through here from people who gave me props for showing what i have accomplished with the class d amp that many doubted. The positive comments on my YOUTUBE channel also keep pouring in regards to the Merrill Audio/ARC REF6 of my last video. That must be telling you all that i am chasing something for the better here. I demonstrated it with Merrill Audio and i will do it with the Mephisto. Mark my words - It ain’t over. |
WC, Do your experiments, I'm all for that. However, it is unlikely that a flagship amp like the Mephisto would be designed to sound great only with particular cables, stands, etc. No doubt many happy Mephisto owners each have different setups. Every amp has its unique character, regardless of the supporting cast. Although the supporting cast makes a difference, it doesn't make or break the star of the show, the Mephisto. You found that the Merrill has its own readily identifiable character. We agreed on what that character is, even though I had the 114 and you have the 118, and I have different interconnect cables, zip cord, the Rane EQ, and no stand. You will find that the Mephisto has its own basic character, although of course the supporting cast will change it, but only somewhat. So please describe what you like and don't like about the Mephisto at present, so we can help diagnose the problem. |
@whitecamaross You are so right, when you talk about how getting a new component is just the beginning, not the end!!! My Daw was brought to me 3 months ago, and I already have new amp, trying a new dac, speaker cables, IC, preamps, power cords and new tubes for my dac and phono stage. I even had to check setup of my TT and change some settings, and I am still not happy with the way my vinyl rig sounds with the DAW and Mephisto:) This is a nightmare (financially) and fun at the same time. BTW, my amp has probably less than 20 hours, but I hear some improvement every single day. My preamp is definitely not up to the task now, so I’m going to audition Pandora and CH L1 next week. I also want to get MSB Reference at the same time and try it direct, the preamp section in MSB Reference and Select is very good. I salute your efforts to make the Mephisto sing. Please, keep trying and do not give up. Your experience is unique and is very valuable for many of us, who do not have access to this broad range of components. |
Wow it’s cool to know there is one more of me with the mephisto lol. I will get it right. I am glad you are the 100th person that has agreed with my statement on YouTube about not being done when you bring a new component. It just starts and those of you who don’t want to start again, especially when you are changing into a brand new line you have not owned then don’t change. If what you are you doing is moving up the ladder but you are staying within the same brand then you are most likely "ok" unless the next step up the line is leaps and bounds ahead of your current product. For example, let’s say you own a simaudio 860v1 amp and it sounds amazing as is and with maximum synergy right now, changing to the 860v2 will most likely be a pain free experience and very little will change on the rest of your front end. However, if you went to the simaudio 888 -$120k Monos and you are coming from the 860a, you will need to spend more money on the rest of your system. It’s s whole different league and level. Also, if you have brand "A" amp and want to go to brand "B" then prepare to have to spend more money on something else. Very few components work laterally with other brands, VERY FEW. |
I agree as well WC about the new component experience. I also agree that the Merrill 118 + Ref6 + Alexia 2 is an example of great synergy and sounds really good. The Merrill 118 definitely sounds different than when you first fired it up - again, a testament to a new component experience and finding the right ancillary components. I wasn't as much of a fan originally, but now I do really like the sound of the 118 - thanks to your efforts for sure. Dave |
Awesome to hear this. Most manufacturers hand us diamonds in the rough and we either polish them or not. The Merrill is a perfect example of what can be done and how far you can push. Clarity in spades , smooth, clean sounding and awesome speed with bottom end control. I've had some people who listened to it in my room and some preferred it over the momentum set up I have here. The mephisto will also go through the motions and partnering and I have a feeling it will be spectacular when I do what I have planned for it. |
I must agree with Viber on this one. It all comes to common sense and logic, the Mephisto is so so...the Merrill is king of the hill... Another fine example of new technologies beats old technologies. No need to throw a ton of money anymore on amplifiers. You know what they say. Put some lipstick on a pig all you want, it’s still a pig in the end... |
WC, There you go again, "However, if you went to the simaudio 888 -$120k Monos and you are coming from the 860a, you will need to spend more money on the rest of your system. It’s s whole different league and level." You know nothing without listening. Forget about money--expensive things are not necessarily better, despite what your contacts say. I hope you learn this before you have a financial and emotional breakdown. Already you are scared/angry that the Mephisto is not what you assumed it would be. If the Mephisto is not so good right out of the box in areas other than bass, beware. You will no doubt improve it, or get used to it and rationalize that it is the greatest because of what you paid for it. But THE END--no way! Time will tell. |
@viber6 i think WC is on point with the complications of moving ultra high end for things like moon 888 , mephisto etc. i would not be surprised if mephisto has better synergy with some cables and components only we already know that as a fact for example spectral amp needs MIT cables. and again it's too early for WC to admit this way or that way that merrill is better or there is less benefits of throwing this much money in mephisto. in a 2-3 weeks we will know based on WC's further experiments withe the cables and the new pre-amps he is going to try. |
Ok so first: @zprr. Thank you for confirming what I said. You clearly understand my logic and reasoning. I appreciate you coming out and speaking out loud about what I said and suggested. I firmly believe i know what I am talking about since I'm not giving advise based on what I read on magazines or forums. I know NOTHING about components I haven't personally owned. I don't believe ANYONE can speak with certainty about any component they personally haven't lived with. Viber, i believe you are a doctor ? Should I then google any symptoms I might have and diagnose myself based on what md.com is saying and refuse to accept the diagnosis you gave me if I came in for a doctor visit? I |
There seems to be a disconnect between what jay says and what people believe he said. I never saw any indication that he was “scared” worried, or even concerned that the mephisto wouldn’t pan out to be anyth8 g other than what he originally said it was. He’s doing some experimenting to see what does work best, and gives the best synergy. As anyone who works with very high performance cars, you can’t just plug in any “upgrade” and achieve expected results. They are fickle beats and thoroughly reward the right setup, while also harshly penalizing the wrong one. By comparison. Doesn’t mean that the “ wrong” combo can’t steal whoop the fastest production cars. Just means it won’t perform its best, to what it’s capable of. Seemed like a good analogy at least. Just sit back and let him work through it so we can see where it ends up. Its late August and Christmas is still a bit away, enjoy the thrill of anticipation. Once you’ve unwrapped the present, then you’ll be wanting to move on to the next one |
Sell something quickly @whitecamaross ,the Boulder amps are quite exceptional. While each level up the food chain is an incremental jump, I just shake my head in amazement at what Boulder has been able to accomplish with the 866. I was communicating with a well known dealer who handles both Boulder and Gryphon and I feel reasonably confident that the Boulder would exceed your expectations by a wide margin. |
The only thing I can sell right now with my eyes closed is the momentum HD preamp because I have 2 people who want it as soon as I am done with it and I’m not sure I can let go of it just yet. Everything else I own is not exactly stuff that people are ready to buy with money in hand. Everything costs what a car costs in some cases. |
WC, As a doctor, even though you never sought me as your doctor, I say you are right that although many patients come to see me after they have researched things, they come to see me for my experience and judgment because I have read the internet also. Just like audio journalism, medical research is often biased, so I always ask other doctors I know about their firsthand experiences. Your listening experiences are as valid as my medical experiences. However, I have sympathy and concern about your feverish audio pursuits that can create financial ruin and emotional distress. I just point out a few examples of a big audio industry myth that has misled you (not your fault). That is, the most expensive flagship of a product line MUST be better than the lower models. You loved the Colosseum, and assumed that the flagship and newer Mephisto must be better. As of now, you are unhappy with the Mephisto, and I hope you can correct this situation. Next, you considered the Sim 860 V2 to be an outstanding amp in both absolute performance and value. You have NO basis for thinking the flagship 888 MUST be better, just because it is more expensive and powerful. After you hear it, that is another story. And I already noted how the more powerful and expensive Bryston 4B SST2 was inferior to my Bryston 2.5B SST2 for clarity. I won't be surprised if the less expensive and powerful Gryphon Essence is better in clarity than the Mephisto. It just seems strange that it has never happened that when you got an amp, you had such high expectations which were then dashed when the reality of listening kicked in. It is not because the Mephisto is an intolerant race car that can only be driven by a trained professional driver. The Merrill is also a high performance machine, but it sounds good with any ancillary components. Certainly, sell the HD preamp and Momentum S250 amp. They are overpriced euphonic pieces, and you are done with them. Do you still have the Christine preamp? If not, the ARC ref 6SE is a great preamp. Make room for the Boulder 2160. I was even considering the Boulder 1060 for MSRP $22K which still has enough power for a medium efficiency speaker. Someone on this thread is happy with the 1160. Since the speaker is the major determinant of sound and therefore where more of your money should be spent instead of on ancillary components, you ought to consider what I think may be the best dynamic speaker at any price--Tekton Design Moab with all Be tweeters for a whopping $14K. Unbelievable--follow the thread by millercarbon on the TD Moab, and see my posts there. Klh007 has provided a lot of great insight there. Nobody other than the designer has heard the Be version. You could be the first! At $14K, there is little risk. This speaker would give you everything you want. I will see how good the latest GTA planar magnetic ribbon speaker is for $25K. With either the Moab or the GTA, you won't need much power. |