@abedirov The Audionet Stern is the other big competition for CH L1, i have to check that one out before making a decision.Regarding DACs i've heard most top of the line DACs including MSB Select and DCS Vivaldi and strangely the one i still much prefer is far from beeing the most expensive, it's the Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2, very analogue sounding.I've also played around with EmmLabs DV2.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
$60k for the stereo and $120k for the Monos (or close to it ) It is one of the most tightly controlled brands. I’ve seen letters from the distributor where they are warning dealers that if they discount, they are terminated. Most of the diablo 300s you see on the used market are typically from dealers who took it on trade and 9/10 these aren’t dealers for the brand. When it comes to the power amps, current amps such as antileon evo stereo and mephisto stereo have never been listed here. (U.S. models) If you buy any Gryphon from Europe and import it, the U.S. Distributor (on a higher note) will give zero support nor approve any sort of work with their domestic service centers even if you are willing to pay for the service. This means that if let’s say you grab a pair of gryphon amps from Europe (220v) and they break , you must ship them back them to Denmark because you won’t get able to get original parts here since any ORIGINAL part that you need for it has to be approved by the distributor. I know ALOT of folks who wait for a used current Gryphon to show up hoping for a deal (hell I was one) and you have higher chances of the coronavirus vaccine to be available than a U.S. gryphon power amp (current model) show up on the used market. However, this is no different than what some retails brands do such as Louis Vuitton. Do you ever see a sale at their store during Christmas or holidays or black Friday ? Lol. Never. You either got the dough to buy that $2,000-$3000 dollar purse or you don’t. My buddy’s girlfriend manages one of the largest Louis Vuitton stores in Chicago and she said that she (THE MANAGER OF THE STORE) only gets $3,000 dollars worth of total discount a year to use in the store and her sales associate can only do one item per year at a discount. Then I asked her , what the hell happens to the inventory that doesn’t sell and goes out of style ? She said they ship it back to France where it gets recycled and destroyed... Yep...next time you see a lady with those Louis Vuitton shoes with red platforms remember those shoes are over $1,000 dollars and either her or her sugga daddy paid that. Getting back to Gryphon, the line itself doesn’t exactly move or fly off the shelves for dealers (mainly the big boy amps) because yes it is expensive. This is what makes it HARDER for any used Gryphon amplifier product to show up used. (there isn’t an over abundance domestically). Once that Colosseum listed online is gone, the market will be dry for a year or two before you see anything else (obviously there is always that one special case that one unexpectedly shows up, but it is not something repetitive like an audio Research preamp or McIntosh mc611 or 1.2kw, bryston amp, etc that are ALWAYS available online. ) I sold my Coliseum and didn't list it. If you want to try Gryphon, that Coliseum listed is as good as it gets right now. Else, $39,000 for an antileon evo stereo or $60k for a mephisto stereo. |
Well this will probably be a first, but I’m actually going to agree with Viber on something! WC, you probably don’t realize you’re doing it, but by pre-judging a negative affect that a tube preamp *might* have with the Mephisto, you are kinda falling for into a similar trap that all the class D haters fall into wrt class D (pre-judging based on expected results). You already have the component, so just give it a fair shot. If it loses vs Dag or Christine or whatever else, then so be it. Only one way to find out. |
kren, Right. But the essence of my post is that ARC, no matter what it is used with, does not have a typical soft, tubey type of sound. Of course, there are variations, like with the ref 6 vs ref 10, brand of individual tubes, etc. ARC's founder, William Zane Johnson, had a philosophy that tubes can be accurate if you know what you're doing. In my experience, this is more true about preamps rather than power amps. |
interesting. Right now, i have a failed experiment: the artesania stand i had the momentum on DOES NOT on the Mephisto because the amp is too massive and there is no way to make it work. I am also playing with the powercords i have on hand and trying to determine if the odin 1 powercords sound better on the dac/clock or the amp. |
I’ll cut WC some slack because he’s either owned this preamp before or at least the Ref 6, so he isn’t basing any statements on pure speculation. Anyway, back to the new speakers and amp. Let me ask a delicate question: on the first tune of latest video, it almost sounds like too much bass?? Maybe placement of the Alexias? Is it possible the DAWs fit your room better? From what we can see of your room on the videos I wouldn’t think Alexia would be too much for the room, and you had the 1’s so you’d know. Maybe Mephisto and Alexia 2 can be an overpowering combo bass-wise -- wouldn’t be surprising. I didn’t detect the same (too heavy bass) for the second tune, or for the earlier video of Alexia 2 with Parasound. Or am I imagining the too much bass? I know nothing is broken in and obviously I’m not in the room, and I don’t want to criticize the sound, just sounded a little bass heavy to me maybe ... Edit: on second thought I think it is probably the woofers are still loosening up and will improve with break-in |
there are a couple of things i need to say ( which i already addressed above): 1. the volume was LOUDER than usual 2. the alexia 2 speakers provide HZ that the Daw can’t come close to matching or dare to try. This is why you hear some people add subs to their sasha. You have never heard of anyone using subs with the alexia right? 3. The gryphon mephisto, when it comes to bass, pounds the woofers. It is as if a full-grown horse is kicking your back from behind as opposed to a pony. 4. i am only in the beginning phases of my new speakers and amp. I have moved the speakers around since my last video and spread them out a little more. Top 5 Things i need to do over the next few weeks: 1. Try different powercord combinations from what i have here. i need to see where i need to use my powercords for maximum performance (which component should have which powercord) 2. Buy a stand for my Mephisto 3. Buy more cable lifters so i can get the odin 1 speaker cables and powercords off the floor 4. Keep breaking in the alexia 2 more and more before i continue to do significant changes on the positioning of the speakers since their bass, mids, and highs will change over the next couple of hundred hours. Might be better to let them sit where they are and just keep bombarding them with juice for a few more weeks. 5. After sufficient burn-in, i will begin to play with the adjustment of the modules (mids and highs) in order to fine tune things and do the final positioning. That is the order in which i will be doing things. A couple of side notes: -Mephisto is far more transparent than the Colosseum. -Colosseum is easier to live with and dial in. It sounds good with just about every type of song you play through it, but BEFORE SOMEONE BEGINS to twist my words, THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT SOUNDS BETTER -Mephisto has a feeling of "intensity" to its tonality that seems more on "steroids" throughout the entire frequency range. -Mephisto does not seem to run nearly as hot as any pass labs amplifier i have ever owned (16.8, 350.8) - Two Jc1+ monos put out more heat than the mephisto does |
Sorry , you cannot say the Mephisto is more transparent that the Colosseum. The Alexia 2 is messing with your perception. Experienced smart audiophiles know it’s the speakers here that are just more transparent than anything else you had in your room. It’s just so obvious as you did not tried the Alexia 2 with the Colosseum. AND listening at those levels for years makes your judgment on transparency and resolution to take with an enormous grain of salt. We would be far much better served with someone that has owned a moderate listening level system for years with ear drums in a more probable better shape... |
ok doctor techno_dude. You are right, i am wrong. Should i ship you my stuff and you send me yours? i am sure since your ears are not "beat up" like mine then you should be able to educate my untrained ear with all the thousands of hours they have in front of some serious components. Let me know what carrier i should use to ship you the Mephisto. It won’t go via fed ex ground. |
Don’t take this too seriously WC. Your thread , reviews, style, and gear are still very much in a class of their own... It’s just that , in this case, to be able to say the Mephisto is more transparent and resolving than the Colosseum needs them to be compared with the same speakers, that’s all I’m saying, |
@whitecamaross Please, check this thread on WBF forum: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/mephisto-bottom-end.30049/ Here the guy put his Mephisto on an Artesania rack, but he had to remove the amps’ feet. Maybe he has a different model? Although it looks the same. |
Don’t take this too seriously WC. Your thread , reviews, style, and gear are still very much in a class of their own... It’s just that , in this case, to be able to say the Mephisto is more transparent and resolving than the Colosseum needs them to be compared with the same speakers, that’s all I’m saying, But that isn't all you said, is it. You went on to say that his ears are damaged and can't be relied upon: " ... AND listening at those levels for years makes your judgment on transparency and resolution to take with an enormous grain of salt. We would be far much better served with someone that has owned a moderate listening level system for years with ear drums in a more probable better shape... " I was going to suggest honing your people skills (and memory). Since it appears that you have almost no people skills, you should devvelop some. Post haste. |
Never said his ears are damaged. Just saying they are less likely to be in the same shape as an experienced moderate level listener. Add to that the fact that the two Gryphon amps were never played on the same speakers, we are dealing with far than good conditions to conclude one amp is more resolving than the other ! |
Techno, for some reason it’s obvious you’re just here to bust his balls. Are you really so bored that this is all you have to spend your spare time on. To me it’s obvious that some people are jealous of what others have or can do, and feel the need to demean them. I have not heard jay trying to put anyone down for what they can or cannot afford, if they’re having a civil convo. I’m sure if someone asked he’d tell you what he thought between dennon and rotel, or schitt products, if he’s heard them to give an opinion. Not everyone on this thread can afford to play at the level of equipment that jay considers to be more budget oriented. Dosnt take away from the enjoyment they get from it. Not everyone can afford a Lambo, dosnt mean you can’t appreciate Ling out someone who can afford it, just because he can. If you don’t like what jay is doing, that’s fine. Then there’s no need for you to post here. Find something that does I trest you. |
@techno__dude Seems you revel more in making a scene than in playing cordially with WC and the folks on this thread. The idea broached above concerning working on your internet civility demands your attention. @whitecamaross FYI - I have not heard Alexia 2s with subs, but like @Kren0006, have heard the Alexx, and also the XVX, with the Wilson subs. It is amazing what they bring to the game. Though I don't own any of the three speakers, I've heard all three many times as they are located about five miles from my home. Not with Gryphon (would like to), but with D'Agostino and Pass and maybe the Luxman separates. I've also heard at least the Alexia 2s with T+A, which is also pretty special. |
Video being uploaded as i type this. I will be talking about the Fyne Audio, Vivid Audio and Gryphon Essence that i had the pleasure to hear over at Suncoast Audio. Stay tuned PS: i have videos of the Gryphon Essence driving the $140k Estelon Forza speakers, Fyne Audio F1-12 and they will be coming out throughout the week. |
WC, I cringe when I repeatedly visualize the laceration on your left hand from lifting amps with sharp heatsinks. Use thick work gloves, please. I really don't want to take sides and stir up controversy, but techno_dude merely made a factual comment about how the power you now hear could be due to the new speaker or new amp, or possibly both. Your journey is very picturesque and appreciated, but it would be even more meaningful if you settled down a little, stopping to smell the flowers, getting to know your components in more depth. You still haven't rated the Merrill. I hope you do that, and present a video music A/B of the Mephisto vs Merrill, a battle of the M's. Nominally, the power rating of the Merrill 118 is greater than the Mephisto, and even my small electrostatic speakers let me appreciate the power of the 114, which is still only half the power of your 118. But sound quality is more important, so let's hear this shootout. This shootout would be more informative than the first 3 top things to do. Items 4 and 5 are still the most important priorities, since they are about getting the most from the new speaker. |
@pokey77 Interesting about the Alexia 2 with subs. I gotta tell ya, in my room it feels as if i have subwoofers playing. The bass is incredible and deep DEEP. I guess it all depends on the room to be honest, but for most people i can’t see why they would want more bass. I wanted to add a few more impressions from listening today for about 4 hours at about 80db 1. Either the Mephisto or the Alexia 2 have easily shown me that stilpoints under the Momentum HD preamp were adding some brightness to the presentation. 2. I can hear more bass come out of some songs on High Res QoBuZ than if i play the same exact song on MQA on Tidal. That said, MQA seems to have more decay, a tad more information than the High Res version of QoBuz 3. Using Nordost Odin 1 PCs on the DCS dac/clock makes the presentation 2-3 times clearer, more resolved than if i use Audioquest Hurricane, but sometimes there is "bite" depending on the song and/or volume level. 4. I have an easier time detecting system changes with this Alexia 2/Mephisto combo than any other system i have owned. It feels as if i am now capable to tell you "hey, this cable has less bass than this other cable" or "this cable has less resolution, nuance, etc" than this other one. It feels easier to tell without having to try HARD AS HELL which is what i had to do sometimes with my most recent speakers. 5. Those damn stupid filters on the DCS dac don’t do a damn thing 6. The "dither" buttons on the DCS clock are now "alive" for the first time. i did not think they did a damn thing, but now i can hear that they feel like they "recondition" the music or "reconstruct it". 7. FOR SURE, the Colosseum is more forgiving than the Mephisto. NO QUESTION, NO IFS OR BUTS. 8. On the Mephisto, bad recordings sound like bad recordings on steroids (worse than on the Colosseum) 9. You can buy a Colosseum, bring it home, and it will play nice with the rest of your components. It will try to make the best music possible within its limitations of course 10. If you bring a Mephisto home, it will tell you "your floor is dirty, it stinks in here, this room & cable sucks ass" and it will NOTICE EVERYTHING you own. It does not give a damn. For instance, it just easily allowed me to hear how inferior an Audioquest Hurricane PC is on the dac when compared to Odin 1 PC. The mephisto/alexia 2 combo in my opinion seems to be more balanced/resolved than if i had the sasha daw/mephisto. Here is why: if i had the DAW, i am sure i would still have bass and possibly more bass if matched with Mephisto than it did with Colosseum, BUT i could never reach the depths or the true potential of the bass control of the mephisto because the DAW did not dig as deep as the Alexia 2. I feel like the Mephisto is too much amp for the Sasha DAW. It would be like having a car that can go 220 mph, but you don’t have enough open space to reach 220mph. You run out of road before you get to 220mph. I STRONGLY BELIEVE, the Colosseum is the perfect partner for the Sasha and the Mephisto mates with the Alexia and above. That said, this does not mean the Colosseum won't work with the Alexia (it does). |
@whitecamaross You got me scared a little bit by what you said about the DAW and Mephisto. But it is too late: the mighty Mephisto will be brought to my place tomorrow:) I refuse to believe that a better amp can make my system sound worse, but you may be right about the possible flaws, and the fact that with Mephisto they will be more apparent. |
congratulations on the achievement of a lifetime Jay. via youtube the power, control and delicacy are crystal clear. can't wait to hear more about your listening experience with the Essence. can't wait for further mephisto videos. the way a great amplifier utterly transforms a system is a wonderful feeling. i hope you don't regret sharing it. but thankyou for sharing it. :-) |
@abedirov There is nothing to be afraid of. It will still make your speakers sing but just be ready to round out the rest of your system. You can’t buy a $500 steak and wash it down with a $5 glass of wine. It is all relative. I will say that after I heard the mephisto yesterday for about 6 hours straight, I went back to the Merrill 118s with Momentum preamp and I am STILL in disbelief by what I hear with those class d amps. Honest truth, without bs, or lies, if I had to do it all again and was looking for a great sound with my Wilson Alexia 2, I’d keep the element 118s and REF6SE and sell off the rest. This doesn’t mean the mephisto or the coliseum or Momentum dont things better because they do, but element 118s with REF6SE give you SO MUCH JOY that you won’t really cry that you don’t own the big leagues of amplification. The law of diminishing returns is A REAL thing. Granted, to be fair , I am using nordost Odin 1 speaker cables , Valhalla 2 xlr and audioquest dragon HC and a Momentum HD preamp on the Merrill. I’m not using average stuff with them but what they bring me to the table is something that makes me scratch my head and make me wonder why spend far more money ? This sounds ridiculously good. Why do you think I haven’t listed the Merrill audio yet....but I listed the parasound jc1+.... Only thing I’ll say is to please PLEASE remember the Merrill will need a great supporting cast to make them morph tremendously. You gotta spend the money around then to hear what they are capable of. I went to bed last night thinking that I might have to begin to find the perfect preamp for the mephisto because right now I like what I hear with the momentum HD (awesome sound) but I feel that amp has more tricks up its sleeve and I can’t hear them yet. Remember, I said it many times, anytime you bring a new component home, sometimes it means you now have to redo some other areas of your system. For example, new cables or powercords etc to help elevate that component. That is what really sucks about changing gear. Very few times are you ever only able to swap out a component and leave the rest the same. |
Abedirov, if you want to reach the same depths, or further, than the alexias, add some good subs. I’ll be using the REL 25s with my sashas using line connections, which they come ready and are recommended for. I don’t believe you would find anything lacking compared to the Alexias with a similar setup. In fact I think that setup, bass wise, could compete with some Wilson’s further up the chain also. Jay, you said that about the bass with the Sashas, lol. I’m not sure when too much ( quality) bass becomes too much of a good thing, but I haven’t found it yet. |
WC, You just proved the points made by techno and me. Most of your joy now is coming from the Alexia 2. So you should now elaborate on what the Mephisto gives you that the Merrill doesn't, and also what the Merrill may give that the Mephisto doesn't, using the same supporting components, of course, maybe with the exception of different power cords. You can also turn both amps off for 10-20 min and then turn on and listen with the same power cord, such as the AQ Dragon. If the Mephisto is the best amp for what you value, then there is no incompatibility with another speaker. Even a tiny minimonitor speaker will show the Mephisto's high resolution/detail/etc. at low/moderate levels. Of course, the minimonitor won't be blasted, but the Mephisto should still improve the playback of Keith Don't Go at 85 dB. |
Viber, I do think that different amps will do better, or not do well with certain speakers. I do think the mephisto would do well with most speaker's, but let’s say a horn speaker that generally hooks up with low powered tube amps. The mephisto might be a bit of a sledge hammer where a more delicate touch is needed. No way to know of course unless it was tried, just based on some past experiences I have seen some great amps that did not match up well with some speakers like that. Not the kind of speakers anyone on this thread likely has, but still. Some amps are better at low levels than others too, have no idea if the mephisto would fall into that category or not, though I doubt that it would. I wouldn’t see anyone buying a mephisto that would be considering matching them to any of those kinds of speakers. |
speedbump6, Certainly the high power of the Mephisto is not needed for a typical horn speaker, which only needs a few watts. But a well designed amp has low distortion and the same tone quality at all power levels within its limits. At high volumes, the sledgehammer effect might be delivered, but at low levels, you get detail/accuracy, etc. For that horn speaker playing modest volumes, the preamp might be set at 9:00, but for the Maggie, the preamp would be around 1:00 for the same volume. Then you might say that the limiting factor would be the preamp which might have more distortion at 9:00 than 1:00. In that case, the best option is to use a good passive preamp with no gain above unity, to yield the least intrusive electronics. |
A couple of things: @thieliste i agree with your statement above. It becomes a mission to find system synergy, but once you find it, it becomes spectacular and intoxicating in many aspects. @speedbump yes i agree that NOT ALL AMPS are designed to sound good with every speaker. For instance, i can totally vouch for the Element 118s and Wilson Audio Synergy. It is incredible how well they pair together, but yes the Mephisto might possibly be an amp that can force more speakers to sound better than most other amps out there. @keithr I am thinking of other preamp options, but as @thieliste said, at this level my friend there are not like a ton of options to chase. Here are preamps i have thought about: Constellation Altair 2 CH Precision Gryphon Pandora EMM LABS (DAC AS A PREAM) Block Audio Preamp Ayre KXR TWENTY (YET AGAIN) Pass labs xs maybe ? That is one HELL OF AN EXPENSIVE preamp selection and the reality is i would go through hell to locate most on that list. For now, i will keep driving with Momentum HD because it is incredible and until i am 100% convinced it can be dethroned, then why sell it? Anyhow, i have just ordered a Critical Mass Stand for the Mephisto. 3-4 weeks until i see it. |
I would get the Gryphon Pandora because it’s made for the Gryphon amps: When connected via Gryphon’s proprietary Green Bias Link to a Gryphon power amplifier with Green Bias function, Gryphon Pandora can control available Class A output, reducing power consumption and running the amp slightly cooler for less critical use. This feature adjusts the amplifier bias in relation to the preamplifier volume control for exactly the right amount of Class A power on demand as needed with massive instantaneous power reserves ready and waiting. Sorta like why the Luxman amp sounds better with the Luxman preamp |