My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
@mrdecibel only 4" left! lol @whitecamaross have to agree with a few of the comments on YouTube who said the Gryphons sound cleaner, more coherent while the constellations are a bit muffled. Is everything identical? Same interconnects? Same power cords? Same speaker cable?
WC, I know what you meant by saying the Constellation Centaur was moody... I had a chance to listen briefly to the Taurus/Gryphon A/B at around 18 min. I want to listen again to be sure of my perceptions, so I am looking forward to your edited version. With most of my own electronics, I find the same variability according to the power line quality, which is unpredictable. Instead of describing the differences in possibly offensive ways, I just give the facts. For example, certain times, the sound is "mushy like marshmallows, out of focus, etc."
I’ll edit the video and upload later. I was being "unfiltered" so my apologies to you all. I thought it was only men watching !!! I deserve to take a punch for the team ! My apologies to all ladies! Cheers
WC thanks for taking down that video. My wife and I were watching it and when she heard your comment given the "me too" movement she told me if I ever said something like that on a public forum I'd be 7 inches shorter!
So in order to avoid any issues with a comment I made about women on my video , I have decided to take the video down. I have to keep in mind that although there is "freedom of speech " , it is really still frowned upon to say certain things. I don't feel like editing anything out so if you got to see the video then great.
As far as luxman, I'm in talks and could potentially bring one 900u which could be the return of an amp I've owned before. Can't make promises but you never know. For those of you who love to assume , the constellation stuff is already packed up and ready to ship to its new owner before I even released this video. As far as Gryphon, we shall see what I end up deciding. For now, it's staying until ....
Techno dude makes a valid point. How can you change virtually all of your components and then compare the sound of a new addition (constellation) to your distant aural memory of another unit (Luxman) which was in a totally different system? This is the very reason good reviewers try to keep a stable system configuration and then change/review one piece at a time to ascertain it’s particular virtues and shortcomings. Not trying to rain on the WCSS parade but any comparisons need to be qualified. You never know, you may actually prefer an amp you previously tested -and moved on from, now that your system has changed so dramatically. Any chance you might revisit a previously owned amp to test its capability in the new rig?
If you want an interesting set of amps to compare with the mega $ stuff, buy a pair of Ampzilla 2000, 2nd edition. Bongiorno designed, massive transformer to control difficult loads.
Hello @Whitecamaross and All, you might remember that I mentioned a few times that I was long hoping to try out the Rowland Daemon. Finally, last Thursday, a Daemon Superintegrated amplifier showed up. I have started to scribble a progressive review/evaluation diary… The scribbling project will continue for at least a few months, until the integrated has stabilized, and I have exercised several of its many input and output options. I have been waiting for a long time for this 99Lbs single box critter. It is Jeff Rowland’s integrated flagship. The DAC + Preamp + 1500W/8 (2500W/4) power amp in a single chassis has been breaking-in since Friday. Incredibly powerful and already making exciting music after just 100 hours of break-in.
But this is our friend WCamaross’s show, so please join me to chat about Daemon around its own new Audiogon watering-hole:
i know it’s not of the scale of the neoliths but i’ve been told by a source i trust that the sanders electrostatic is among the very best of that genre. personally if i had the room the top of the line magnepan would certainly be fun to set up properly.
I was wondering if you'd come back to the Neoliths - especially to try in the new room.
This is purely curiosity, but I wonder how a speaker like a JTR NOESIS 215RT would sound with all of your electronics and cabling. It's certainly a big boy, and it would be a chance to try something with a compression driver in your room. Using your analogy, it looks like it would be a 4X4 truck. Dave
I'm about seconds away from bringing back neoliths .... I keep struggling with regular sized speakers. It's like riding on an Escalade and then you hop on a Toyota RAV4. Impossible to forget the massiveness of the big boys.
Related to the debate earlier, my new Alexia 2s arrive in just 2 weeks! Glad you are trying out the DAW. I heard them in the same room and much much preferred the Alexia 2, but it was a big room.
@thezaks sorry if I wasn't clear but I already had some of their Excellence series and a cable from their Ultra series (and a bunch of Cardas Clear) but got some of Audiomica's Consequence cables that WC had been using. I believe the Ultra series is like 50% of the retail of the Consequence series and yes even this series is worth it.
rsf507, So what series of Audiomica did you get? You mentioned you could not afford the Consequence series. So are the lower series (Ultra Reference and Excellence) worth it for their price?
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU WCSS! I received some demo Audiomica cables that you used and I’m WOWED! Yes I’ve been using some of Audiomica’s lower series cables from their Ultra Reference and Excellence series but just couldn't afford the Consequence series. So what did this bring to the table? The timber and top to bottom sound is so very natural and I now can play even louder because things are cleaner within the soundstage than ever before. (Blacker background) Also transparency has increased but most important to me is that these cables preserve the musics correct scale and size. Did I mention the bass impact? Tight, clean and just musical. My own cable journey is over all thanks to you WCSS so again with much THANKS!
Most people don’t know this but ALL focal speakers have now gone up in price effective today.
Scala Evo was 40k and it’s now 52k... Good luck trying to find one for less than 30k :)
Focal sopra 2 was 15k and it’s now 19k...sopra 3 was 20 and I think it’s 23k now... Maestro evo was 65k and it’s now 72k I think. Ahhhh focal jacked up the Scala Evo price the most out of any other speaker they manufacture because it is indeed their money making machine... I'm SO HAPPY I got mine before this nasty price increase. :).
A pair of piano black Scala Evos with 100 hours of play time just popped in the classified section. High end Palace, no price on the ad. I guess you have to talk your way through for knowing...
But what WC mostly remembers is his favorite PassLabs XS 300 monos driving the Alexia 1s. Now the DAWs should be driven by the same XS 300s to get a real idea of what they can do vs the best Alexia 1 memories...
So what we will mostly get is... ...the Alexia s goes deeper and stronger in the bass department. But that thought is based on the XS 300s pairing...
rsf507672 posts02-28-2020 5:44amNice move to the DAWs! They are very very detailed (something we have learned you look for in gear) and are very very very dynamic. Yes I’ve heard them several times. BUT mating them with Odin speaker cable may bring to much of a good thing and while initially you might find all the detail to be fine I would think that after 20-30 minutes you would become fatigued with the sound in my humble opinion. I would have thought the Audiomica speaker cable “might” have been the better match with the DAWs or any other cable but again just my own thoughts not the Odin match-up. Looking forward to your impressions after all it’s what you are looking for and not your followers, we are just riding along on your journey.
I've heard Alexandrias numerous times through an Odin 2 Loom and D'Agostino amp and the sound is is absolutely effortless and pure with a deep and detailed soundstage.
Nice move to the DAWs! They are very very detailed (something we have learned you look for in gear) and are very very very dynamic. Yes I’ve heard them several times. BUT mating them with Odin speaker cable may bring to much of a good thing and while initially you might find all the detail to be fine I would think that after 20-30 minutes you would become fatigued with the sound in my humble opinion. I would have thought the Audiomica speaker cable “might” have been the better match with the DAWs or any other cable but again just my own thoughts not the Odin match-up. Looking forward to your impressions after all it’s what you are looking for and not your followers, we are just riding along on your journey.
Issue is this thread is a small platform in comparison to YouTube. Also, the video allows for people to actually see the equipment and feel a little closer to the entire experience. I do appreciate your opinion though.
Jay, your videos might as well be podcasts as the camera is just in one static location all of the time showing a single view of the equipment. I get more insight from this thread than your YouTube stuff. Just saying I think your efforts are better spent here.
Aah' I listed what at least a dozen reference amps you have not listened to about a week ago and there is no way you could audition those in a week. Keeping it honest.
All- This Friday night will be the reveal of my second new component. You don’t want to miss it. It will FINALLY hush a bunch of noise that was made here weeks ago. I PURPOSELY selected this component in order to tackle the debate that took place here. Lots of people here love to sit on the toilet while reading a stereophile magazine only to later go to bed and then pretend that they now know what a component is all about. To me these are dreamers who drift away from reality, but who the hell am I to crush dreams.
Please note: I said the video will be to reveal the component and not to listen to it. I want to make that clear so that there aren’t any broken feelings. Stay tuned
@keithr You have been hiding under a rock... My YouTube channel will continue to do amps but I will also occasionally do other things such as cable shootouts , maybe dacs , preamps., Etc etc. If I only stick to amplifiers, then I will be done in about a week since I've owned just about every amp out there. I gotta switch things from time to time.
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