The beginning of a new chapter with the M6.
Have a great weekend everyone!
https://youtu.be/xtTT89RMhx0
Have a great weekend everyone!
https://youtu.be/xtTT89RMhx0
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
The beginning of a new chapter with the M6. Have a great weekend everyone! https://youtu.be/xtTT89RMhx0 |
Soulution is huge money. Plus my gut tells me it is going to be replaced this year. Close sources to me have already told me the new 7 series is coming. You see the 701s listed? 55k and they are like 160 msrp and they aren’t moving. Close your eyes and think why that is... Jay has something coming in a few months so don’t worry. If someone wants to bring their 7 series soulution here then I’m game. Anyhow, today you will hear the m6 with pandora and synergistic research cables. Then you all will hear it on a separate video with Nordost Odin Speaker cables and the NEW shunyata omega powercords which makes its first appearance in my room. These 2 cables is what I've been using over the last 48 hours so I'll shoot videos this weekend to let you all hear how it compares to full synergistic Research Galileo. I think most will be surprised with the change in tonality and the added warmth shunyata omega adds to the overall sound. Stay tuned for more. |
Jay, You said a few months ago that people told you that the Mephisto is the most revealing Gryphon and the Antileon Evo is more euphonic warm. Now you heard it for yourself. Moving up the clarity/neutrality scale, your Boulder was higher than Mephisto. Then Mike of Suncoast on your part 2 video implied that Boulder is still more tubelike than Soulution. So Soulution 700 amps appear to have the most clarity/neutrality. You can hear the videos I presented on p 302 which show that compared to Alexx and especially GTA speakers, the M6 is darker/warmer in tonality. The GTA is highest ranking for clarity/neutrality and that is with euphonic Pass and Lampi dac. The M6 could use a top Soulution amp if you like some aspects of the M6. The Alexx with more neutral Boulder is more neutral in midrange/HF than the M6 with Pass, and I won't be surprised if the M6 with Soulution will show that the M6 moves ahead of the Alexx for clarity/neutrality. I wouldn't waste money and time pursuing Dag Relentless or expensive VAC tube amps because they will likely be more of the same euphonics, but a top Soulution would be fascinating. Soulution is still cheaper than Dag Relentless. Of course, my iMac audio settings are not as revealing as your live room experience. But whatever factor X differences there are between my iMac and your live room, they are constant, so my relative rankings would likely be similar if I were in your room. |
Probably no soulution for me. I plan to bring a few brands never seen on my channel though. Tubes will enter in the room as well. I'm still about 4-5 weeks away from trying tubes. I plan to try new line conditioners, new powercords, etc. Maybe a new linestage here as well. Lots and lots stuff up my sleeve that i didn't have access to when i had the Alexx. More to come for sure. PS: i didn't like the soulution Integrated. I do understand the 7 series is on another level though but i don't feel it is for me given the price points. I can't have it all :) |
Since it is going to be Gryphon pre/power for a while it might make sense to have Gryphon dac or cd player in the system too. They probably can't compete with whatever that $83k piece is but synergy should be perfect. It would also introduce sort of a simplicity to system building, just a few brands, including cables. In the end, if the Magico is still there by that time, I suppose top of the line Boulder preamp/amp will win. Or maybe D'Agostino Relentless ? Or maybe they both, just different sound. If Gryphon Evo does alright Mephisto will as well, probably better overall, but I bet they won't be the best match with these speakers. Are we going to hear top Soulution electronics in the future ? I did think that Soulution/Magico combination was in tune, just needed improvement. |
All So I want to make sure I am as transparent as possible here. If i ever had to take "shots" at the general public here, it was never meant to be for any of you but techno. I can’t recall anyone else being so straight up harsh and just salty and bitter. I can’t recall the last time anyone was so "techno". If i ever hurt feelings, just know it was never meant to be for any of you except the perpetrator here. WHAT does he contribute? NOTHING. |
techno_dud Dealer profit will vary from brand to brand. If you want to know what it is on a specific brand, contact a dealer and ask. Jay is in no way obligated to share this private business information. I'm sure that you negotiated for all your gear, we all do that. It seems you have no filter, you just say whatever you want. Please use a little decorum. It will go a long way. And, you are not saving anyone, you are just being aggressive/abrasive for no particular reason. As Jay noted, all POVs are appreciated, but acting out does not look good on you. Finally, if you just think this is the worst thread, you can always change the channel. |
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I understand. No, I am not that interested, not preparing for price negotiations. Like when you buy a car, you know. Jay, I can "present the opinions" in different styles. In any case, you really like Gryphon amps, and Boulder too. Gryphon has been very sought after brand for decades, just not in the US, where they will be going after the departure of Flemming Rasmussen is unknown yet. |
Cant really be vocal on that with regards to any brand unfortunately. That said, I’m sure others can private message you and tell you more than I can. @inna Lately you have presenting your opinions better than when you first started posting here. Thank you for that. Some individuals are more abrasive as i mentioned on yesterday’s video. I welcome all positive and negative criticism but please exclude destructive criticism. i also want feedback from those who want to simply see how far I can push the envelope with the Magico M6. I have no air in my lungs to articulate things over and over and over again. I haven’t even placed the mágico with the supporting cast that will elevate it yet we are already "prosecuting" the speaker without it ever having a fair trial. It’s really stupid and it displays the ignorance, stupidity, blatant behavior that some are willing to enforce in order to end a good opportunity to hear one of the best speakers out there ONLY because they don’t see themselves EVER capable of affording it. Some people haven't even seen the speaker in person so clearly they wouldn't know how it sounds. With all that said, even if I were to surprise some people with this speaker and what i have planned for it, you REALLY think someone would come out and say: " wow Jay i was critical of the m6 at first and now it has blown me away. I was wrong for assuming so much" Hell no that wouldn't happen... Let’s see how the Antileon does tomorrow with pandora and synergistic cables. |
techno, in my view you are right in some of your comments, and I stated it before, but not all of them. And you are not always exactly polite. It is in fact alright with me if that's how you wish to position yourself but evidently others are sensitive enough to reject your approach. In any case, we are going to hear the Magico with new Gryphon soon. I wonder if I was right when making an assumption that Gryphon/Magico would not be a great match, at least to my ear and taste. Intuitively, I would choose Boulder not Gryphon if moving in this direction. But it could be wrong, we'll see. It's fun anyway. |
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Great post, Jay! I follow this thread almost religiously, like a lot of people so I can learn. I really value when Jay and his posters talk about what they like and WHY. Everyone has a preference (bash away) BUT please tell us WHAT YOU ARE HEARING that you like or don't like. IOW, what are your tells in comparison? Is his voice unnatural in his pronunciation of a particular word or phrase? Are the guitar strings not as semblant in one vs the other? Is the impact of the drum not sharp enough verses the other? Are the hi hats too bright or not detailed enough? Not enough energy in the high end? Muddy bass? It's all about values and preferences and tradeoffs, and we can choose the poison of our own liking. |
Jay, I generally like your car analogies for audio equipment/performance and budget. I love a nice fast ride and I'd guess that I follow auto racing more than the average person. In F1 auto racing there is a driver, of course, who makes a significant difference in the race outcome. And every F1 driver has a race engineer. While the audio hobby doesn't have "drivers", I think your thread demonstrates that over the past 5 years you have begun to operate like an F1 Race Engineer--trying different combinations of materials to understand their end result--using either what you have on hand or acquiring other materials to use within a particular budget. The F1 analogy works here, I think, because the amounts spent on F1 racing are very, very high--but if you don't spend a minimum (significant) amount of money--then you mostly lose. There are rare exceptions, but Mercedes paid Lewis Hamilton $55 million to be their #1 driver because they like to win. And behind six of Lewis Hamilton's seven driving titles has been his race engineer--Peter "Bono" Bonnington. I readily admit sound isn't speed. But how you are currently approaching your project seems to fit the analogy above. |
I agree with the logic that kren0006 presented - makes sense. I think it’s important for WC to differentiate between : a. his doing videos on equipment, including comparisons, and asking for comments and thoughts from folks who have never owned the equipment and/or never heard the equipment in person - only heard via youtube on whatever equipment they use to listen to it. vs. b. the point(s)he is making in this video I agree that over-the-top bashing is wrong, but when asking for opinions based upon youtube videos, seems like it should be fair game for comments. That’s why I mentioned that it’s ultimately great to get WC’s opinion - the opinion of the person in the room with the equipment. A quick perspective....while this is WC’s journey with the equipment - in the room, it’s also our journey with this combination of equipment via videos - it might well be the closest any of us get to that kind of experience. Dave |
Remember, Price isn’t what tells you how much better something must be. If you spend 50k in an item for your rig it doesn’t mean you’ll get 50k worth of additional satisfaction by buying the new item. People don’t always understand that there is a reason WHY some items are called "big bang" for the buck. There is a reason why this terminology exists. That said, if you spent 30k in your rig and your buddy spent 60k and yet you feel yours is 90% as good as his, it doesn’t make you the winner lol. You’re still losing to his rig. It’s just that he feels spending another 30k to improve 10% is worth it to him. You really believe that your toyota supra is better than a dodge viper acr only because you can keep up with it if you were to race? No it’s not... " I almost beat you and your viper in my mitsubishi lancer and i only spent 20k.." " You are still in my rear view mirror no matter what" |
I think, our reference standard is high - it is how it sounds in reality. And I think, paradoxically, the better the system the more critical people might become. That is because the expectations are very high compared to much lower set-ups. I remember myself criticizing Mephisto. Mephisto sounds great but I expect more at this level. Another point. Most of us and most of your youtube viewers will never be able to afford such an expensive gear, even used. It is very upsetting and frustrating. I feel more or less okay about it but I am not that involved in audio. Still, this aspect is unpleasant to me. But I follow your thread with interest simply because I like to see and hear what is possible to achieve in sound reproduction. By the way, I would probably take Koenigsegg over Italian supercars. They are somewhat ordinary and this one is quite unique. Or McLaren. |
When you use a highly flawed sound transmission system like Youtube and want people to comment on what they hear trough their own systems or iPads, you have to accept that not all will be positive about the sound. Imaging, bass response and articulation are never well represented in these videos, i hope no one makes buying decisions based solely on them. Personally i find little value in this format but understand that it is the only way to make some monetary gains on your endeavors. |
Regarding the video, I agree that the over-the-top bashing of things is probably better avoided. But on the other hand, by your logic (that only those who have owned gear at that level can sharply criticize elite gear), then that would logically also apply to praising gear so that all of the gushing, incredible laudatory comments for the Wilson Audio, Gryphon and Boulder would be just as invalid or suspect. Why? Because by that logic we wouldn’t know the difference between Boulder/Gryphon and Bryston/Parasound, or between Wilson Audio Alexx/Magico M6 versus Tekton/GTA/Martin Logan 11a/Maggie 20.7. Why is that any different? I don’t necessarily agree with the logic. in other words, I think if you solicit feedback you gotta take the bad with the good. But let me repeat, those just looking to stir up trouble are annoying and I wish they’d stop. At the end of the day, the qualifications one needs are ability to listen and hear differences in presentations. That’s it. Don’t need to be an electrical engineer or understand the amplifier schematics. Just need to listen. Of course, like anything in life, some will be better at it than others. And maybe those who have owned elite gear are better. I doubt it though. Maybe they just have more money. I bet if you ask dealers they will admit that. Regardless, my only point in all of this is that if harsh criticism is invalid unless meeting some high ownership bar then praise from those who similarly don’t meet bar is also invalid |
I thought that big Wilson speakers were quite good to perform a role of monitor speakers to compare different amps and preamps and cables etc. Michael Fremer keeps them when evaluating everything. This does not necessarily mean that Wilson are his favourite speakers, this means that he thinks that they suit the purpose of his work best. But he apparently likes them enough for pleasure listening as well. So why bring Magico in to evaluate amps when the differences were clearly audible with Wilson ? Are Magico M6 better monitors than Wilson ? I doubt it, no reason to believe it so far. They are more transparent but Wilson are quite good too in this respect. |
this is pretty much how i feel about the harsh critics and the comments on youtube seem to agree with me. https://youtu.be/_c3J66o9Iqc |
I have the Wilson Sophia 2 and the soundstage is absolutely great. I can only imagine what M6 or Alexx would create. Assuming a perfect speaker placement setup.....how much does the electronics influence the soundstage such as going from Pass to the Solution's? This question comes from a guy who hardly upgrades due to "money" of course but I do enjoy hearing other peoples journey in "climbing up the ladder" so to speak. thanks, David |
Very different approach to soundstage. The alexx has a huge soundstage that fills the room top to bottom. However, it is a taller speaker as well and the tweeter is also placed higher. No matter what kind of recordings i played, the alexx always spoiled me with a huge sound. The m6 is a different animal. It won’t play huge unless the supporting gear and recordings are telling it to do so. You could stream Pandora with an iPhone into the Alexx and the sound will fill your room. Not so with the Magico M6. Just last night, i was playing with my new toys and i got a much larger presentation with the m6 than what i have been getting since I got the speaker. This leads me to believe that my electronics need to certainly come up (we know I’m playing with cheaper components for now). The m6 is just completely different than the Alexx. They couldn’t be more different. Actually this reminds me of cars. For instance, i just recently found out that to make 2,000 hp from a dodge viper costs over $50,000 dollars. Very few shops work on the viper and the turbos plus engine work is quite expensive. In contrast, you can make a nissan GTR push 1800-2000hp with far less money... See what I mean? We have 2 different platforms here and both take different money to make it faster. That’s the best analogy i can give for now. |
@whitecamaross I just went in again and tried the video and I got amazing bass quality. It seems either I get thin sound or I get really good sound. I'm using a laptop and AKG K553 Pro headphones. Very easy to hear differences. So, to others who felt that the sound wasn't that good, go back and try it again, at least one more time. Once you hear the track with solid bass, you know you are getting the full SQ from YT. Sounds very nice to me. Would like to be in the room though. |
When you play at this level, there is no more 4 digit components that make a huge contribution unless you're talking powercords, stands or xlr. Each component becomes 5 or 6 digits in order to make a significant impact on the presentation. Yes I'm not excited to say it but it does sting to watch your money fly out of your hands. |