My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
More coming your way. Thanks for the support. I am hours away from receiving the next chapter in my journey. I am icing my back in preparation for this. Teasers will be released throughout the weekend so be on the lookout for that.
Same findings. Also, Essence has more startle than Connie as with the raunchy loud guitar at about 1:03. The Connie has more boom and weight, but the scare/startle is greater with the Essence. Analogy--Essence is like a lighter tap with a metal hammer; Connie is like a heavier blow with a rubber hammer. The Essence hammer drives the nail into the wall more efficiently than the Connie hammer. So much for the 250 (or 500?) W capability of the Connie vs only 50 W of Essence.
Always go for quality rather than quantity. The Essence is a great reference with plenty of power for nearly all recordings.
On tonight's first hearing back and forth, I hear more focus/clarity/detail from Gryphon compared to Constellation. The Connie is tubelike/rounded/bloated compared to Gryphon. I assume Jay matched the SPL's. If so, the Connie seems a little louder, but this is due to its added fuzz and fur coat effect which magnifies everything. The Essence is still smooth/coherent, and ultimately more lifelike in every way, and yes, more musical because of that.
Be careful not to confuse euphonic roundness with true musicality, which is the revealing of total musical info in a balanced, coherent way whereby all the frequencies exhibit equal high clarity. The Essence is an example of true musicality. I like the name, "Essence" which is apt.
Inna- yes I think the dynamics could be improved upon with a more dynamic, efficient speaker. However with the M6 musicality is a challenge and I feel the constellation serves them well. Personal preference I guess.
Different tonal qualities. I would have a hard time choosing between both because they do things so differently. I love the inviting and romantic sound of the constellation even though it does not slam hard. Gryphon and Constellation need to have a child... Man, that would be spectacular...
No. Costellation is okay but Gryphon Essence is much better. It has a realistic dynamics and more convincing overall balance. Gryphon Essence monoblocks - bargain of the century.
Hi Jay, worth pointing out that GTT Audio is unique, in that it is both a distributor as well as a dealer/retailer for the brands that the company represents.
Understood, but keep in mind that unfortunately this means i probably can't get it. Most of my equipment never comes from a distributor. Distributors are a different mind-set than dealers. Their business model is really a different animal (which i understand). For now, i will keep rolling with the usual suspects that you have seen on my channel.
i have received a lot of recommendations for that brand, but here in the U.S. it is not easy to have access to it just like Dartzeel. These are obscure lines that are not widely accessible to people. I’d love to try them, but it probably will not happen. Unless someone (a dealer, manufacturer or end user) sends it to me, the chances of me bringing it are as big as me hitting the lottery tonight.
If you don’t want the compromise of explosiveness and grip, with all the detail and base, I encourage you to try the Audionet Stern and Audionet Heisenberg monoblocks. They are viewed by many to top Soulution 701s and Constellation. Maybe you have heard them... have not heard you mention them in your trails
By now you all have watched the video of constellation audio with room treatment behind my listening chair. To me, this is the best the M6 have sounded since they arrived. It is a about compromises and trade-offs and although Constellation does not have the monstrous explosiveness and grip of Gryphon, it does add an immense amount of clarity, detail and imaging. Right now, i am preferring Constellation audio over Gryphon and you all know that i am a HUGE Gryphon fan boy.
Just wrapped up tonight's video. Constellation has arrived... Rescue in place and what you will hear could be the best presentation out of the M6 that I've had in here. Words can't describe what I'm hearing. Stay tuned for the video tomorrow
Yeah, but it is always like that with good speakers. You need equal or better everything else to make them sing. Including cables. With speakers like M6 it is just more so and a train load of cash. Or credit. Gryphon Essence monos are about $50k, comparison with Soulution $170k monos would be helpful. What if the Gryphon wins or loses by very little, especially if the room is not too big and decibel level is not too high? Still, even if the Essence are enough you would have to spend a lot overall. $350k total for a system, I would guess, or more. 50% spending on speakers rule might work in this case and it might not, dac could be very expensive. With only analogue source..probably about the same, and with both analogue and digital sources - and that's how it should be if you are serious- it will surely go over the cost of M6. I agree with Jay that you can possible get away with Wilsons by spending less, but still, if you want it done right it will be about the same. Boulders are not exactly inexpensive. Essence monos with Wilsons ? I have no idea.
If this video was done 25 years ago you would have been talking about the Wilson Watt Puppy, everything you said about the Magico applied to the Watt Puppy, pamper it and your rewarded, listen it's telling you what IT NEEDS.
Cheer up Jay, you didn't fail. I am in communication with Rouge Audio from Italy, (mentioned by ricevs) which makes basic amps with SOTA class D modules. They sell IceEdge, Hypex, Pascal-based amps. Francesco said that the IceEdge 1200 AS1 is tops for neutrality and accuracy, compared to Hypex. I like his characterization of the IceEdge as "studio monitor" type of sound. I agree with him--the Hypex amps I have tried are somewhat euphonic. My Mytek Brooklyn Amp uses modified Pascal modules, which I found are more neutral/accurate than those other amps and the more expensive GaN. I just wrote to see how he compares IceEdge to Pascal. As of now, I probably will order the Rouge Studio N10-DM, which is about $1550 delivered. I'll let you know how it works out, before I send it to Ric for his mods.
I may even send it to you for evaluation if I am happy. I believe you lean toward accuracy/neutrality, although you are not at the extreme like me. So you can have an expensive speaker and source, and do nicely with these cheap amps, if your priorities are similar to mine.
Great engineering, amazing clarity, but with greater precision you also need to step up to the plate. This is no different than you buying a super car where you are supposed to buy a specific tire size that is not widely available. You need brakes every 3,000 miles, you need oil changes with a specific type of oil that only the dealer has, etc, etc. You are dealing with great engineering that pushes the limits including your own. It is outstanding, but as i mentioned you can’t skimp on anything here. I failed, but i did this to understand WHAT it takes to own a "super speaker" such as this. Lastly, i know there might be some out there who might say "oh i am using pass labs or parasound with my magico and they sound insane, you dont need all this stuff that you are mentioning to make it sound good".... My answer to that statement is: Do you OWN THE M6? if the answer is "no", then you dont understand what i am talking about here and if your answer is "yes i also own the m6" then my answer is " you aint heard nothing yet and have no clue of what this speaker is capable of if you are using subpar anything in your rig".
Of course, we have all heard that most of the money should be spent on the speaker first and then the electronics. That said, that approach is totally false in this situation. You CAN NOT buy a 172k Magico M6 and pretend that you will spend less on electronics to make it sound its best. You actually need MORE money on the electronics than the Magico M6 itself. I mean, the Soulution 701s MSRP for $170-180k so the amps alone are a boat load of cash and we are not even thinking about the source, cables, and preamp YET!. I am completely happy about everything the M6 has taught me and now i can only imagine how much more the M9 requires from you. Magico M6 = Super Car Super car = lots of $ associated with cost of ownership
I hope this gives you an overall idea of my time with the M6.
Jay, have you tried the Audionet Stern pre and Heisenberg monoblocks. Should have a shot at toppling your current top pick and can run the M9 when you later replace the M6 speakers :)
Everyone watching that video figures out that Jay doesn't give a damn about Pass. And rightly so. Battle of dacs should be interesting. I would add Gryphon dac, considering Gryphon amps will drive the speakers.
All good. Even plain tone controls are better than none. D’ag has a sophisticated version in his preamps whereby a different circuit is used when the tone control function is engaged. But no conventional tone control is as versatile as the Rane with its thirty 1/3 octave sliders, plus/minus 0-12 dB. With hot recordings like Nils Lofgren’s Keith don’t go, I boost/use the upper 3 sliders (12.5 kHz, 16 kHz, 20 kHz), but with laid back classical recordings I use the upper 5 (8, 10, 12.5, 16, 20 kHz). A young listener with better HF hearing than I would use less boost, which would vary with the recording and speaker. This Rane makes 1000 times more variations than any subtle differences between cables or 100 times more than different preamps. Even flat without any EQ, it is as transparent as many good preamps. You can do all this fully or very subtlely, your choice. With XLR, there is 6 dB of gain, so the Rane can serve as your line stage. Connect your source to the Rane, then Rane to power amp.
When and if a speaker comes out that perfectly reproduces the snap and naturalness of live sounds, I will abandon much of my use of EQ. Right now, all speakers are markedly veiled and colored, so judicious EQ has more benefits than detriments. If you don’t like the EQ choices of the recording engineers, you can change the recording to your taste with your own EQ. Since most recordings here are highly processed and EQ’ed, this is even more beneficial for listeners whose main diet is these recordings.
Never laughed at you for actually using an EQ. Im sure the Rane is better than anything I ever used (Pioneer) back in the day. Now limited to the LOKI or tone controls on gear like Luxman.
Viber, You had better go Underground then, because EMF, HFER and many other types of radiation is Everywhere and practically unavoidable , unless ....of course......... you go..... UNDERGROUND !.😁
riaa, HAHA--after raining on my Rane parade all these years, you reveal that you have always used EQ in your systems. Which one? I don't claim that the Rane ME 60 is the best, but I just went for it after going to Sam Ash pro audio in 1996. It is easy to use and fiddle with, and even as a line stage in the flat position, its transparency is in a class with many audiophile line stages, confirmed by mrdecibel. I don't have internet based wifi systems, since HF electromagnetic radiation is medically dangerous. Are there wired digital EQ's that I could use that are better than Rane?
Jay, I have been watching this thread for a couple of years now, but I haven’t said much. I just want to let you know I appreciate and enjoy your discussions and YouTube reviews. The diversity of components you give a try is remarkable, and while I will never own most of them, I will own some of those brands, and your efforts give me great insight into the numerous brand capabilities. Thank you!
RIAA, I think we all want goosebumps, which may come from euphonic beauty of sound OR raw raunchy excitement from pizazz/sparkle. Clarity enables the latter. EQ can be tailored to your preferences. It can enliven distant/veiled recordings, or tone down hot recordings to your preferences.
Thank you to all of you for the love and support, the good, the bad, positive and negative criticism. It isn’t easy to do what i do especially without any prior experience. When i started this journey, i did it based on the recommendation from some of you (Riaa was one person who pushed me to do it even though he broke my b@lls a few times lol). Doing this, sitting in front of a camera, editing, talking, avoiding repetitiveness (i am working more on this) and trying to deliver a clear message is much harder than you guys might think, but this "struggle" has helped me grow. I hope you all have enjoyed Part 1 of the M6 review and now that we are at 5k subscribers i will deliver my promise of the DCS Rossini versus MSB Reference.
Purity of sound is not what I look for in a speaker. Your sounding like somebody else in this thread. I could care less what parts do what to the sound. Im not an Audio Nerd. Not everybody wants the ultimate clarity. Not everybody listens to the music that you do. Most of what I listen to is unfortunately badly recorded to begin with. Too much Clarity just makes things sound worse. I certainly dont want Alice Cooper, Aero or Led Zep to sound "Beautiful" and give me goosebumps.
Show me a Speaker with your LII Audio 10, 15 drivers that is PLEASING to the EYE and has a well made FULL body Cabinet. Ive yet to see anything that is acceptable. Best looking ones I have seen are the Crystal Audio 10's coming out of China. I even ordered a pair....until I saw what happens to the speakers after a year or so. The Cabinets start peeling/flaking and look like Hell....so I cancelled my order. If your so brilliant maybe you should develop a speaker that uses those drivers and looks as good as it sounds.
I love what I hear from the stock Nenuphar. But I know (you do not) what binding posts, banana plugs and jacks, extra wires, cabinets and not wiring to the voice coil wire do to the sound. The fact that you do not like the looks of an open baffle speaker.....well, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about purity of sound. I am talking about goosebumps beyond the stock Nenuphar. You could take your Nenuphar driver out and hardwire a super speaker wire to its voice coil wire and run that wire outside the back directly to your amp.....it would blow you mind how much more beauty and information you would get....and you still have your box. However, an open baffle version would probably sound better......however, you would lose a little deep bass. Most people just buy stock equipment and never realize how they could do something for less money and get better sound. To each, his own. btw, Jay's wife does not care what he does. He has had giant Maggies in there.....it is his man cave.
If the Nenuphar’s are Veiled then the other 14 pairs of speakers I own are REALLY Veiled. They are awesome sounding with low powered tube amps or First Watt/Bakoon type amps. Open Baffle?? Sorry...have never seen any that I want to look at. Many look like Toilet Seats. Even the Spatials look awful to me. I doubt very highly you have ever had or heard a pair of Nenuphar’s in person. Im sure they sound "veiled" in a Youtube video which is probably all the real life experience you have with them. BTW If Jay brought home or built some Open Baffle Speakers he would come home from work one day to find all his Amps n Speakers out at the Curb with suitcases full of his clothes....courtesy of his Wife.
ricevs, Just name one amp you have A/B'ed against your modified IceEdge that is better, and say in what ways. I just read Doug Schroeder's dagogo review of the Legacy Audio IV7 who says it is better (more resolution and smoothness at the same time) than any amp he has tried, although his standard of reference is merely a Pass. You say the Legacy IV2 is nearly identical to the Rouge Audio Studio N-10DM, both using IceEdge 1200 AS1 modules.
zip cord? All brands of zip cord will sound different. All gauges will sound different. The directionality of the wire makes a difference....and of course, you want the cables off the floor. If you listen to zip cord with bare ends the you have a serious advantage. All speaker connectors suck. Use bare wires and binding post bypass system (my invention). Zip cord is not serious wire for audio.....ordinary wire, ordinary insulation....makes for ordinary sound. PVC sucks as a dialetric.
IceEdge: The stock IceEdge is OK. If you put a tube in front of it....like PS Audio does....and upgrade the tube to NOS then you get good sound. If you modifiy the IceEdge module then you get really good sound without a tube needed. However, no matter what you do to it.....it will never be state of the art......just fantastic for the money.
The writing on the wall is clear. The class D amps of the future will be what we will all be using. The AGD amps are getting raves ($7500 5 lb. mono blocks....20 day home trial).....Mytek is releasing 500 watt mono GaN based amps in two months for $20K and right after that a dual mono stereo 200 watt GaN based amp for $7K. These may compete with the big boys.....and even the 500 watters weigh only 30lbs each. More tweaky class D is in progress including $5K Gan based amp from Atmasphere.
Would love to see Jay make an open baffle speaker using the top of the line 10 inch Cube full range driver. Have you guys read the reviews of the $16K Nenuphar?.....that uses these drivers. The stock Nenuphar is limited by its construction. The speaker box is veiling the sound, the binding posts on the back are veiling the sound and the tip jacks on the speaker and the bananas that they must be using there are really veiling the sound. So, if you mounted the drivers ($8500 a pair delivered to your door) on a four foot high by 2 foot wide baffle and used one foot by 4 foot wings directly pointing back on the sides.....you would get a flat response to around 40 hz. You buy some great $15 a foot speaker wire without connectors and you connect to your mono blocks right behind the speaker and hard wire the speaker wire directly to the voice coil wire. This would be way more transparent than the Nenuphar......probably would blow you mind. I would make the baffles out of 3 pieces of three quarter inch material (2.25 inches thick total).....all different types to kill the resonances. I would use bamboo plywood, highly refined particle board and 13 ply baltic birch. You could use a solid piece of Oak or Maple as the front as well..... no binding posts, no crossover, no veiling box.....just pure open sound. If I had the money, this is what I would do......for $10K it would probably beat most $100K speakers except for power, bass and dynamics. However, you would be amazed at the purity of sound......the phase perfect imaging, time aligned by God. I am drooling at the possibilities. Lots of cool stuff out there for way less money.........Of course, you could run open baffle woofs next to them and limit the low end response of the Cube speakers by inserting a small super transparent cap in line with the main amp to limit the response to say 100 hz and then bring in a pair of big bad 15 incher’s driven by their own class D modded IceEdge for bass that would knock your walls down.....maybe another $5k.
I know Jay won’t do this.....but someone reading this might. You would be in for a serious treat. Most of us reading this thread cannot afford a single item Jay is using. This is just entertainment.....like following Supercar Blonde. However a $10K speaker is doable for many.......My friend in Pocoima, CA is using the $1200 a pair Lii Audio 10 inch silver full range driver on a baffle exactly as I described. He is adding 2 15 inch woofs right now on another open baffle for each side. He loves the Lii drivers.....once burned in and wired directly to the voice coil. He is getting flat to 40hz and the speaker is 95db sensitive......for less than $2K you can build this speaker. Best speaker he has ever had. He has added an ESS medium size AMT on top with copper foil cap for a slight improvement on top.
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