My journey to find a speaker + amp + setup for classical music (piano)
Hello, my small room project is almost done, only left with a few acoustic touches. (Couple pieces from GIK, Vicoustics, maybe)
After leaving this hobby for years, I needed to spend quite a time catching up and got lots of help from the forum. I’d like to briefly share my little experience.
First of all, I don’t think I’m an audiophile who likes equipment... indeed I don’t try to listen to the equipment, I just like music. So sound quality comes first, but I only care about the quality of music I listen to (Classical, primarily Piano based and some Jazz) with my sources. This means that some of speakers I consider as “not really” work wonderfully for pop/rocks etc but somehow lack certain aspect in classical music.
I try to come up with the least amount of BS but a slight touch of personal voodoo too. Still, I only care “how it sounds” to me. - Best sound quality with least amount of money
Initially, I was considering something for a bigger space, but I decide to put something in a small room first. Anyway, here’s the result.
Note:
Contenders mean something almost equivalent. Boulder 866 has very slight edge over these for me. When I think “not really,” it just means that either not my personal taste, the quality isn’t in the same league, or the cost-performance ratio is not satisfactory.
Set up
Note. I thought I might need a sub like JL f110 v2, but it turns out I do not need it.
(Not really)
Honestly, I can’t find any other contenders with a similar price range of $11k - bottom line is I coudln’t find one for reasonable lengthy audition.
(Not really)
Fast, high sensitivity - in my case, ceramic/diamond is the starting point. I couldn’t find something horn for my case. - Matching Boulder is secret for ceramic and any other typically considered metallic sound.
“Depth” with the right amount of detail is the key - all about detailed tonality with the right amount of pressure when music coming out.
Very difficult to find one to compete.
Boulder’s integrated DAC is surprisingly good. Boulder knows something for sure. Streaming is flawless too.
Personally, I like MSB DAC but don’t like how this company does business. So If I had to go for separate boxes, I would pick Molamola or Dac from Boulder. (new, more affordable model coming.) Aurender topline product is interesting but a bit too much $.
Boulder 866
+ Parker Quintet (no diamond)
+ Alumine 3 (it’s tricky one though)
+ Sabrina X
If I won a lottery, I would consider the boulder 1100 series with a bigger house.
Along with the 20% discounted Formation Duo that I picked up years ago for wireless, this setup is very cost effective considering its performance level, mainly boulder 866.
If there’s any question about the specific combo mentioned above, I will try to share my memory.
Have a nice day.
Looks like you’ve already ruled them out but Genelec 8351b +W371 +GLM about $26K, connect your source and dump the rest of your stuff. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3... |
This means that some of speakers I consider as “not really” work wonderfully for pop/rocks etc but somehow lack certain aspect in classicalBy the way, this will always be the case with speakers in the entry-to-middle market sector. You’ll have to hit the $8,000-$10,000 range auditioning different designs and efficiency levels if you want that macro solution. |
Some Audiogon members won't appreciate my system, due to owning what I consider to be quality 'Chi-Fi' components, but I'll describe what has worked regardless of those "views." Like you I'm an avid Classical listener with an extensive piano repertoire collection. For me I find planar speakers with tube monoblock or stereo pre/power amps sound best to reproduce the complex sonority of piano recordings. The recording of course must be of high quality to begin with. Also I don't endlessly compare vinyl to digital to streaming because they are, after all, different formats produced by different studio recording technologies. Active testing in pairing speakers to amplifiers will always be needed, but I ended up with electrostatic / planar paired to tubes as performing best. |
How about investing in a good dac using toslink very limited and for under $5 k the Holo springs May edition dac, great sounding period ,and beats many much more expensive dacs out there John Atkinson Stereophile one of the lowest distortion dacs ever , And much lower in cost then the higher $$ competition . I am currently saving for one . |
Yes, +1 Spendor for your programme, at the relatively budget end. I note you don't list any electrostatics. Piano is very suited to full range electrostatics giving a very lifelike rendering. Full range is a real advantage because piano is full-range with homogeneous tonality that can be spoiled by cross-overs. Piano sounds just great over my Martin Logan CLX Anniversaries. Yes, by all means add a sub if you want full weight below about 55Hz - bottom B on a Steinway Model D is 31Hz. |
Good morning gents, reading this thread with great interest; Finding a nice system to listen to classical music. Most mentioned gear is very costly. What about a slightly simpler set-up; Falcon Acoustics ls 3/5a goldbadge, Lavardin Lavardin ISx reference , Duelund speaker cables/ interconnects and a lumin streamer. Very reasonable priced and a very musical sound . Cheers Leon |
Agree with Rauliruegas. Sub/mains separation is the most significant upgrade I have done in over 20 years on this hobby. Contrary to popular belief, the sub’s main goal is not to add magic to the low frequencies the mains might not reach to (when you think about it the lowest note on the piano A0 is 27.5hz) but instead to free up the mains and their amp in reproducing the difficult 20-40Hz range and focus on everything above. The result is a sense of liberation (low distorsion), detail and balance. To do this correctly a high quality pre-amp with a well designed output crossover is a must, I use pal nagy’s Icon 4pro se. I have the chance to have several setups at home... best ones with piano reproduction are - Ypsilon Phaeton + Lawrence Audio Double Bass + Sub - First Watt SIT3 + Cube Audio Nenuphars + their 12” Sub ... with Grimm MU1 streamer and MM Tambaqui DAC Hope this helps |
Be sure to audition planar speakers. You just can't expect to reproduce the sound of a concert grand and its 20 square feet of soundboard, let alone an orchestra, with 3 or four square feet of speakers. IMO. I have similar tastes, and use two pairs of electrostatic loudspeakers with Class A solid state mono blocks (vinyl front end). Also consider Magnepan. Their 20 and 30 series can fill a big room, but try them in yours. These speakers and Bryston are made for each other; I speak from experience for that combination, which I used before I changed to ESL's. Good luck! |
I think for piano specifically and classical in general, Vivid is insanely good. I just spent time listening to a pair of Oval B1 Decades at a customers home driven by MSB Reference DAC and they have an MSB power amp. First track he played after I set them up was a piano concerto and it was stunning, stop in your tracks kind of sound. One of those, best system ever type moments. You would look at the Giya G4s or Giya G3s in that price range. They are truly amazing speakers. Boulder would be a good match for them in terms of amplification. Avantgarde is incredible for your preferred type of music. You are going to probably want to look at different amplification that what you have on your list. Boulder will be okay with it. They are typically best with 300B or PX25 SETs. I am not sure there is an LA based dealer anymore. I just had a customer tell me he was struggling to hear them in CA. Spendor's Classic 200 is another contender you could look at if you are into the BBC style speakers. Lovely design but a very different animal like Harbeth. I am reasonably certain you are going to want to change amps as it would probably be a bit laid back with Boulder. You might find Ayre to be a better choice. Finally, check out the Wilson Benesch A.C.T. One Evolution. The distributor Aaudio is down in Dana Point and I know he has a few models on display. Again, brilliant for classical. The only issue I see is that you have a smallish room and the A.C.T. One Evolutions are rear ported and like a little space from the wall. Full disclosure, I am a dealer for all of these but I am in NJ so it is not like I can help you audition, etc... The reality is, I just know and like these brands. Once you pick a speaker, then amp and and DAC should follow. I would not worry about other equipment till you pick speakers you like the look and sound of. The combo of amp and DAC will alter the sound quite a bit. For example, Mola Mola and MSB sound very different and would work better with different amplification and speakers. Key is thinking about the system holistically. |
Dear @sangbro : Normally ( everything the same. ) what makes a true differences for the better or bad are the transducers. You own very good system and I could think that is well mated to your room with some kind of treatment. Yes, everything is about MUSIC but but we want to enjoy that MUSIC at its best is posible and for this we need the " rigth " hardware. All two way passive transducers as your Marten has a " problem " and this problem is that the mid-bass woofer handeld at the same time frequencies as low as 30hz-35hz and frequencies up to 2.5khz and this fact means that ( no matters what. ) that woofer develops high IMD and adds high THD distortions. The woofer excursion with frequencies at 36hz-40hz impedes a " clean "/accurated reproduction of the up frequencies and is from this fact that comes that InterModulationDistortion that collaborates to increment the TotalHarmonicDistortions. " thought I might need a sub...." Rigth, you need it the MUSIC is crying for. A sub will liberates the Marten from 80hz and below it and will handled the main frequencies above 80-90hz. When that bass range is reproduced by a dedicated transducer designed for that specific frequencies and that woofer comes with a dedicated amplifer designed to fulfill that woofer needs the overall MUSIC reproduction will be nearer to the recording. That piano really will " sing " as better than ever. Now, the Marten are not the only monitors that could fulfill your MUSIC needs, here 4 options that can work really great for you: https://www.tidal-audio.com/piano/ https://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/micro-series/microone/ https://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/mini-series/minione/ https://www.kerracoustic.com/k300 ( it does not matters " creamic " does not appears. ) the adequated self powered first rate subwoofers could be for all the alternative including the Marten: https://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/mini-series/minisub/ For me that could be my first step to improve MUSIC reproduction before to think in new amps or anything else. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@sangbro Well I do not want to comment on that. Costa Mesa, California. Maybe my search ability is not good enough.You can listen to the Yamaha NS5000 speakers in 1 of the 4 locations in the USA which is less than a hour from you. Contact — Shelley’s Stereo I demoed the NS5000 here and it was the worst room imaginable. If you decide to go for a demo tell them to setup the speakers in the better room, without the surrounding glass walls, conference table, storage cabinet in-between, other speakers, less than a foot from the front wall. It was unbelievable how dumb that room and setup was. Funny thing is if I get the NS5000 my setup is going to be a little messed up like that demo room. I will have to place them 6+ inches from the front wall with a small storage cabinet in-between. The demo room was exponential worse yet the speakers showed great potential. So that is why I am very interested in finally getting it. EVENT CANCELED: Shelley's Yamaha 5000 Series Listening Party - March 19, 2020 — Shelley's Stereo |
Your post is quite confusing. Are the below your current gear? If yes, do you feel they are not good enough for classical music? Personally I feel the Marten Parker Duo is a very good speaker which outclasses most of the options you have listed further below your post. |
I am interested in NS5000, but couldn’t find one locally and in Asia(when I stayed there) somehow. I am too lazy to go through home demo unless I’m 90% certain that I would buy. When I get a chance, I’d like to try that one out. My experience with Brodmann (former Bosendorfer) is it’s good for piano and concert hall-like staging but overall there’s some factors I don’t like. This is a problem when I listen to concertos/symphonies. |
Go and listen or order from Music Direct for a home demo the Yamaha NS5000 speaker. Yamaha has some background with pianos. This speaker can fill a good sized living room. I created a thread on this speaker a few years ago. I finally can buy this one and will do so in 2021. TAS did a review of this 5000 line on September 2020. I have demoed the 5000 line with exactly the components described in the TAS review. I will be pairing the NS5000 with a $7K KRELL K-300i integrated amp with internal DAC. This gear is not as good as what in my office but pretty close and very convenient. |
