My Comments on the Infigo Audio IS-1 Signature Streamer

@ervikingo you can use your iPad. I have also used my iPhone to control it as well. Using the same Audirvāna Control app. 

@ervikingo, Yes.  I use the Audirvana Mobile Remote App For IOS on my iPAD.  

Question, from a non Roon or Audirvana user, how do you control it?

Is there an iPad app for it?

@everyone. I do this as a hobby on the side to assist Hans at infigo. I have the streamer and I think it’s a great product. I have owned my business in Texas a law firm for 23 years and I don’t do this to make a living. I’ve been in this hobby for 2 decades. I see a great mind in audio who makes exceptional gear. Some of the best I ever heard since I been in the hobby. I’ve heard everything from ch precision, Soulution. Esoteric , Msb etc. I’m just sharing my impressions. I won’t be commenting any further moving forward. The Is1 is a great streamer that I have enjoyed. A definite must listen. Happy listening.

@rbstehno Please share the source of this 'Paper" please post the link. I know you are a big PS Audio fan. 

Here are a couple of snippets from a 2024 paper so my standards have not changed;

Dr. Patrick Gleeson personally tutored me in analog synthesizer programming at Different Fur Trading Company in San Francisco, the studio Patrick co-owned with Chief Engineer John Vieira. John upgraded their Studer half-track half-inch 15 ips mastering deck to 30 ips.  By good margin that Studer deck was the best analog source I ever heard before or since.  Admittedly, I've heard only about a half-dozen  analog mastering decks so my sample source is not great. I wish had heard Dave Wilson's Ampex deck with Curl's electronics. I love the best vinyl as much as anyone else but frankly that Studer outperformed the best cost-no-object vinyl source I've heard.  

How much difference does the source make?  That Studer deck playing 1G master tape > (amps unknown, if anyone knows what amps DF used around the time Herbie recorded Headhunters, please disclose it) > JBL 4311 was surely one of my all-time audio highlights and I've heard many of the world's best cost-no-object systems.  (The 4311 was JBL's best compact studio monitor, a 10" or 11" cone/dome 3-way.  Speakers have obviously improved since the 70s but Lynn's Ivor Tiefenbrun's "audio hierarchy" was and is valid: the source is king.)

This is by aural memory; to readers it's worth less than what you paid for it.  Infigo's IS-1 streamer > Infigo Signature Cryo USB cable > Infigo Method 4 gets closer to my listening experience of that Studer deck than anything I experienced prior.  One gets the sense that the music program quality contributes about 99% of the listening experience while the streamer and DAC contribute the remaining infinitesimal balance.

Less than a year ago someone I know in Europe AB tested the Infigo Method 4 DAC vs. the $80k MSB DAC and purchased the former.  His source was the $30k Taiko Extreme streamer.    

@ricred1 That’s right. But I’m gonna get you the demo. 

Calvin,

I have a Antipodes Oladra.

@ricred1 you have an antipodes k50. I’m going to give you my ls1 to demo and take back to San Antonio the next time you are in the Dallas area.  We would love to hear your observations. 

@lalitk

@Roon users have a clear understanding on how to maximize ROON potential beyond the SOTA interface. I’m a minimalist, so I prefer a one box ROON system and IS-1 is clearly not a one box solution for ROON users. For most people, this may not be a deal breaker but in grand scheme of things, you’re introducing lot of variables in achieving optimal sound quality when you run ROON on two separate devices (roon end point + core).

IS-1 can function as Roon End Point but requires an outboard computer for Roon Core function. So IS-1 fails for anyone wanting a 1-box Roon solution. Your "halff-baked" descriptor is hyperbole but it’s fair to say IS-1 is less convenient than a 1-box Roon solution. But IMO your opinion that a 1-box Roon solution can equal the performance of a properly engineered 2-box Roon solution is wrong.

Several times I AB tested the following. The person who built and engineered the entire streamer system is a highly skilled full time professional 30 year experienced college degreed network and security systems professional and audiophile/music lover.

A) Roon Core and End Point in one big custom dedicated computer

vs.

B) Roon Core in the big computer w/Roon End Point in a NUC

B always and without exception outperformed A. You appear to deny this solely because it’s outside your experience.

Small Green Computer has sold thousands of "renderers" solely and exactly for 1 reason, to separate the streamer’s "Core" and "End Point" functions. Your position appears to be that every such purchase of an outboard renderer was in error.

And finally, the fact that you apparently never heard a non-Roon based streamer outperform the best Roon-based streamer proves nothing. Hundreds (possibly thousands) of others and I have heard such a demonstration.

I, like others can list many MS Copilot errors. But I have to agree 1000% with Copilot’s brief descriptions of Roon, HQ Player and Audirvana, 3 of the most commonly used apps in the Antipodes and Extreme streamers. Roon is convenient, HQ Player and Audirvana are refined in performance. As I stated earlier, with rare exception simultaneous maximum convenience and performance is oxymoronic, including for music playing apps.

Antipodes K50

The Antipodes K50 is known for its flexibility and supports several popular music playing applications, including¹:

• Roon: A comprehensive music management and playback software.
• Squeeze: Often used with Squeeze Server for streaming.
• HQPlayer: Known for its high-quality upsampling and playback capabilities.
• MPD (Music Player Daemon): Can be used with MinimServer or MiniDLNA for library management.
• Shairport: For AirPlay streaming.

Taiko Extreme

The Taiko Extreme also supports a range of music playing applications, such as¹:

• Roon: Widely used for its robust library management and playback features.
• HQPlayer: For high-quality audio processing and playback.
• Audirvana: Known for its high-resolution audio playback and library management.

I don’t mean anyone to be unsatisfied with their current streamer. If someone is satisfied with their streamer, avoid this forum! Duh! I would rather invite persons desiring the performance of the $20k Antipodes K50 and/or $30k Taiko Extreme to audition the IS-1. IMO the IS-1 performs as close as you’ll get to those 2 streamers at a small fraction of the price.

I agree with you if your position is that persons satisfied with Roon performance are not the ideal potential IS-1 client.

Everyone, listen for yourself. Rely on folks that have actually heard what they are talking about.  It’s not that hard. 

@calvinj 

I am just pointing out a simple indisputable fact: 

“IS-1 is not a one box solution for ROON users”

Right or wrong, I let you be the judge of that :-) 

@spkrplus 

Lot of assumptions being made in your post instead of understanding the gist of my original post to @calvinj. Given your limited understanding of ROON and your strong preference for Audirvana, any further dialogue with you would be a fool’s errand (no offense). 

@Roon users have a clear understanding on how to maximize ROON potential beyond the SOTA interface. I’m a minimalist, so I prefer a one box ROON system and IS-1 is clearly not a one box solution for ROON users. For most people, this may not be a deal breaker but in grand scheme of things, you’re introducing lot of variables in achieving optimal sound quality when you run ROON on two separate devices (roon end point + core). 

@lalitk 

“But there are some guys that will shoot it down without hearing it.”

There is a valid reason to do so, IS-1 is a half-baked product for ROON users. It appears to be designed targeted for audiences who prefers Audirvana. And that’s ok! Like most things in life, our audio choices are often driven by our preferences and price of admission.  

Your post tells readers more about yourself than the subject.  Labeling your opinion as valid is as "valid" as a mother's opinion about her baby's beauty, e.g. it's expected, it's common and it's virtually universal.  Everyone thinks all their opinions are more valid than all other contradictory opinions.  

A search for "Quit Roon, improved performance," especially at Audiophile Style will yield hundreds or more hits for person who quit Roon in their search for ideal performance.  AFAIK no streamer employing Roon provides ultimate audio and musical performance.  

As always, I have and shall happily continuously agree that Roon sets the standard for library function.  But as usual or always, ultimate ease or luxury and ultimate performance are mutually exclusive.  Being married to Roon as you apparently are and achieving ultimate audio/musical performance are incompatible AFIAK.  

If someone has what they think is a Roon streamer that provides state of the art audio and musical performance, I'm happy to learn otherwise and recant my statement.  

And I admit BTW that I do miss Roon's lyrics and commentary which Audirvana lacks.

IS-1 is a half-baked product for ROON users. It appears to be designed targeted for audiences who prefers Audirvana.

IS-1 is not half-baked in any way.  Roon users can enjoy Roon.  If they compare Roon to Audirvana (free trial,) they can use both and decide between Roon's convenience and Audirvana's audio/musical performance, they just can't get both simultaneously and that's caused by Roon, not and IS-1 "issue."  

If my hypothesis is correct that Roon degrades audio quality, then to blame that on the "messenger" (IS-1) is like criticizing a Porsche GT3 because of its performance with bias ply tires or 89 octane fuel.   

The streamer is roon capable and you can use upnp as well as HQ player. For those that use that. It’s compatible.  For the cost of the streamer which is 5k. I have mated with my 35k Dac and it shines in my system. 

@hgeifman great points you have made. Implementation of things are very important and there are situations where things will outperform other things because of the way it’s implemented 

“But there are some guys that will shoot it down without hearing it.”

There is a valid reason to do so, IS-1 is a half-baked product for ROON users. It appears to be designed targeted for audiences who prefers Audirvana. And that’s ok! Like most things in life, our audio choices are often driven by our preferences and price of admission. 

I am very confused. The claim that every review prefers I2S or Ethernet over USB for sound quality may not be universally true BECAUSE of the many variables involved.

It seems that some reviews highlight advantages of I2S, such as lower latency and less noise due to better shielding, others argue that USB can perform equally well or better depending on the specific DAC and system setup. Additionally, practical implementations vary widely, and many users report different experiences based on THEIR equipment AND environment.

Based on my experience, Ultimately, the preference for I2S or Ethernet over USB depends on individual setups and subjective listening tests.

There are instances where USB can outperform I2S or Ethernet, particularly in well-designed systems. For example, high-quality DACs that implement asynchronous USB can achieve superior noise isolation and lower jitter compared to I2S, especially when the USB implementation is optimized for low interference. Additionally, some DAC manufacturers argue that USB provides better performance in specific setups, particularly when the source device is low-noise and properly isolates the USB signal from power supplies. Thus, while I2S and Ethernet have their advantages, USB can be the best choice depending on the specific components and configurations used.

The bottom line is that there are many options including IS2, USB, Ethernet, ES-Link and others. Everyone has to decide for themselves what implementation sounds best in their environment. There is no right solution for everyone because of the many variables.

AND, of course, get ready for the next cable design. Yikes!

One of my last streamers was created by the digital genius behind Playback Designs, Andreas Koch. It used a Plink interface for the best performance. It also had SPDIF which sounded great on that unit. The Plink was implemented using a fibre optic cable something more and more designers are realizing is a magic bullet to kill noise. I also think the SPDIF was also connected to the fibre on the inside of the unit since it sounded so good. I had 2 other fibre streamers to compare side-by-side, Lumin X1 and a Sonore OpticalRendu. They all sounded different.

I sold this streamer since I found a much cheaper DAC that I was happy with for the long term and no longer was planning on spending a lot of money on the PBD Dream DAC. I only use fibre based streamers. The DAC connection is no longer the primary factor when I look for a streamer (USB, I2S, SPDIF, etc.).

@spkrplus i try to be careful in saying what I say. I’m glad you said what you said. I can buy anything I want. I choose the Method 4 Dac and Ls1 streaming combination because I get all the detail, soundstage and musicality without degrading sound quality. Most that I know that use roon say it’s a slight even though small loss in sound quality to gain functionality. So for me it is a non starter. I have had people and clients get rid of bigger name equipment and cables to purchase the Infigo stuff. I’m glad you are sharing your observations with us. Hans knows how the use the ess Sabre 9038 dac chip like no other because he used to work with the guy who invented the chipset . He believes that any loss of sound quality while building equipment is a non starter. So if it degrades sound quality it’s a no! He built this dac and streamer with that in mind. I been in this hobby 20 years and have never been happier. Anyone who tells you that they don’t need to hear something before they have an opinion on it is someone I wouldn’t listen to. There are some amazing guys in high end audio. Technology is being pushed to the limit in our hobby. There are guys that figure out how to get the best out of already existing platforms and methods. I think Hans has just pushed us to a new limit. I’m proud of the Method 4 and Ls1 and would put it up against anything. The method 4 dac faired well against all of the super dacs in a shootout on the Whatsbestforum Dac shootout last year. I offered to loan my streamer out simply because I’m that confident in its performance. But there are some guys that will shoot it down without hearing it. I don’t worry about that crowd because in this hobby there will be those but most audiophiles enjoy hearing something new. They understand that in each technology method new highs will be reached and there is a sense of curiosity and possible wow factor in each thing you put your ear on. If you already have you mind made up you have a right to. But some are more interested in showing us that they are right and how smart they are over actually listening and trying equipment with an open mind. Whatever you do try as much as you can. Audio is a journey. It’s YOUR OWN JOURNEY NOT THEIRS! @rbstehno i just had the 20k esoteric No1xd in my system 2 months ago while I loaned my dac out and I preferred the sound of the Infigo method 4 with the ls1. I was actually one of the first to get the ls1. Just my opinion. 

Let me add this info. Quite a few high end companies have created their own proprietary links between components to get the best possible sound. What did a lot of these companies use as this interface? I2s. Here is a description from Esoteric on their es-link:

ES-Link
ES-Link is an ultra-wideband digital interface developed exclusively by Esoteric. The ES-Link 5 supports up to 22.5MHz DSD or 768kHz/48-bit PCM using two HDMI cables. The HDMI multi-cable configuration is used for the transmission of fully balanced audio data, LR clock and bit clock signals. Unlike conventional digital transmission, no processing is required for signal modulation at the sending end or for demodulation at the receiving end, thus significantly reducing the digital processing load on the DAC to achieve pure digital transmission.

No I haven’t heard this streamer, I don’t need to. Even in 2024, usb is still flawed. Here are a couple of snippets from a 2024 paper so my standards have not changed;

“let's first discuss the role of a USB connection in your audio system. In modern high-end audio setups, digital audio signals are often transmitted from a source (like a computer or a digital streamer) to a Digital-to-Analogue Converter (DAC) via a USB cable. While USB is convenient and capable of transmitting high-resolution audio, it’s not without its flaws. One of the most significant issues is jitter.

In the quest for audio perfection, audiophiles leave no stone unturned, from speakers to amplifiers to DACs. However, a critical and often overlooked element can significantly diminish the potential of even the most high-end audio system: digital signal integrity. USB connections, a standard in music streaming and digital audio, are particularly prone to jitter and timing errors, which can severely impact sound quality by introducing noise and distortion.

Imagine investing in the finest audio components, expecting to uncover every layer and nuance in your favourite recordings, only to be met with a sound that lacks clarity, depth, and precision. This frustration is not just disappointing; it's an all-too-common issue that undermines the substantial investments made by serious audiophiles. Standard USB connections, while convenient, simply aren't built with the high-fidelity transfer of audio signals in mind, leading to these detrimental timing errors.”

Every review of a component that has usb, and 1 of the following:i2s, or Ethernet, have preferred the sound quality of i2s/ethernet over usb.

Every streamer is a computer and most use the same usb hardware, even usb audio 2.0, which still didn’t resolve any of the issues above, it was mostly a speed increase.

My question to you and most audiophiles, when was the last time you judged for yourself if usb was better than Ethernet or i2s? 99% of you will never be able to run these tests because your setups don’t furnish these interfaces. I’ve been able to do this for many years and that’s why I got rid of my auraluc Aries streamer with my attached usb dac 7 or 8 years ago along with my reclocker devices, usb cable that splits the data from power, femto clock devices, and whatever usb tweak I had. Before I recently sold my AQ Diamond usb cable, I did do a couple of sessions comparing usb to Ethernet and i2s. The AQ cable is gone now, no need to ever use usb again.

@lalitk im not trying to make a living in this hobby. I have ran a successful business that has nothing to do with audio for 22 years. I do this on the side to help Hans because I think he is an amazing designer who builds amazing sounding equipment. I never said that anything was absolute. I just don’t use roon. I don’t have a need for it. I just enjoy what I have. Glad you are happy what you have enjoy and happy listening my friend.

@calvinj 

Never say never in this hobby especially if you’re trying to make a living in this business. There are no absolutes in audio just choices based on our own unique circumstances. 

@hgeifman im just glad you are enjoying our streamer. After I tried several streamers I really pushed Hans to create our own. He worked on it for about 2-3 years. I’m glad you are enjoying it. It’s the best I have heard in my system at any price point. I have tried things 3 or 4 times the cost. I’m happy glad you are too. Enjoy. I’m just glad you found what you needed with us.

@lalitk our streamer is able to run roon but it is not roon based and does not require you run roon! I personally don’t like roon and my ls1 is not running it. So you understand. I use it with the Audirvāna app. Never have used roon in my life and with the sound I’m getting right now. Never will!

@lalitk 

I am in Texas and I appreciate the demo offer but any Roon based streamer with a requirement to maintain external CORE hardware is a non-starter for me. I don’t see any valid argument why core + renderer can’t be properly implemented in one box.

Roon from day one to today arguably set the industry standard for most intuitive/easiest to learn library user interface.  Many users would never give up Roon.  Conversely though is a growing # of ex-Roon fans who heard the difference giving up Roon and preferred to do just that.  Even using Roon for library function only audibly degrades performance compared to state-of-the-art alternatives that give up a little of Roon's ultimate useability function.  Different strokes for different folks, just like the OP mentioned.  There's no right or wrong, only choices.      

@tkrtrb125 i understand.  I’m done myself. My system is gato fm6 speakers. 2 rel 212se subs. Infigo method 6 amp. Method 4 dac. Ls1 streamer.  I’m in heaven sound wise. No need to search for anything anymore.  Just finding new music to startle me! 

@lalitk I agree. At this stage in my life i want fewer boxes.

@tkrtrb125 look. If you are close you don’t have to commit to buying anything if you wanna hear it try it. Report back to the thread if you like. I understand though. I’m so happy with my ls1 I’m done  looking for a streamer. I have found my answer. I tried 5 others 

@calvinj

I am in Texas and I appreciate the demo offer but any Roon based streamer with a requirement to maintain external CORE hardware is a non-starter for me. I don’t see any valid argument why core + renderer can’t be properly implemented in one box.

@calvinj  I am and appreciate the offer but I am content with my Zenith MK3. 

My Infigo IS-1 (Infigo Streamer 1) drives my Infigo Method 4 DAC. I am an 80 minute drive NE of Salt Lake City. I’d love someone to bring their $20k Antipodes K50 streamer or $30k Taiko Extreme streamer to AB vs. IS-1. Ditto, any cost no object DAC vs. Method 4.

Someone I know in Europe has a system justifying a state-of-the art streamer and DAC. He heard the K50 and Extreme and purchased the latter (no IS-1 at that time.) He compared the Extreme to a DIY streamer I too own so I have an idea how good sounds the Extreme, justifying my optimism to compare IS-1 to the K50 and Extreme.

This same person also compared Infigo’s Method 4 DAC vs. the $50k Lampizator tube DAC and the $80k MSB DAC and purchased the lesser-priced Method 4.

Ages ago I grew familiar with the sound of Different Fur Trading Company’s Scully 2-track half-inch mastering deck chief engineer John Viera modified from 15 to 30 ips. I don’t want to diss anyone’s vinyl, but even a half-million dollar vinyl rig can’t reach that Scully deck’s zip code.

I am shocked how close IS-1 > Method 4 gets to that Scully deck, of course the digital pair adding no audible noise. If we limit the discussion to the DAC output, I estimate 99% of perceived quality is the program source and 1% is the streamer and DAC.

BTW, I'd buy the IS-1 before spending equal amount on any DAC.  Lacking a state-of-the art streamer you'll never know how good sounds your DAC no matter how costly.  

Are any of you guys in the Dallas Fort Worth area or in Texas?   If you close I would allow free demo. 

Hans actually stripped down the non audio related things in our operating system so that anything that would affect audio quality was removed. 

People need to realize that the audio processing power needed to do streaming is not that high. When people moved away from cheap computers as the music servers and went with dedicated audio servers (also computers) they lost visibility to the CPU usage patterns when streaming.

All, Please see the link below for more info on ARM vs Intel processors as presented by @tkrtrb125 in his post above.

Arm vs Intel link for more info:

FYI: "Just ten years ago, even Intel's entry-level CISC-based processors were far more powerful than top-of-the-line ARM-based chips. However, this is no longer the case. Apple has proven with its M1 and M2 chips that ARM-based CPUs can be as capable, if not more capable, than Intel's competing offering.

Nevertheless, this doesn't mean that the CISC-based x86 chip is on its way out. Given the large number of computers that run these chips, it will take time before Arm's ARM chips will supplant Intel's x86 offerings. But as ARM processors become more powerful and affordable, its adoption will increase, and soon enough, you'll find that ARM CPUs are powering most computers on the market".

Funny stuff @rbstehno 

most ever sota DAC and streamer/server uses USB.

2 issues with this streamer:

* uses Intel which is the worst/out of date processor

* uses usb.

My dedicated streamer doesn’t even provide isb because the manufacturer knows that usb is terrible. How many demo to clocks/reclockers/cables that separate the usb data and power and the other 100 tweaks/gimmicks on how to make usb presentable, not even in the same ballpark as i2s or Ethernet.

The best cpus for the last few years are arm based, which Intel has old technology that can’t compete with the arm procs.

@ everyone. I think you have to sometimes try stuff in your system or trust when another audiophile that you trust tells you he likes a new item over a more expensive thing he owns then that’s a sign that you might wanna try it.  I tried the ls1 against the esoteric player as well as a Melco that retailed at 10k and the ls1 sounded wayyy better. I then ran it up against a MacBook using the soulutions 540 and it beat that too.  I use the Infigo method 4 dac with the ls1 streamer and I have yet to run into a combination that rivals it. At 5k it’s worth every penny.   But then again I’m careful because I speak as an audiophile.  If you are in the DC AREA this weekend come hear it for yourself at the Capitol Audiofest nov 8-10.  Room 823. Ask for me and I will give you a demo.  

I don’t want monkeys to monkey around with my 1s and 0s. Intel will do just fine…

Nothing wrong with USB if done right. Look at Schitt on their USB after many years of saying it was bad. They rolled their own so to speak.

ARM processor or INTEL processors have 0 effect on the sonics of a streamer. Get a monkey to process the 1's and 0's fast enough and they would be good enough too. The sonics are related to other factors not the monkey or ARM's ability to process.

Nice DAC! I use Bricasti M3 and really like it. Sounds great with my Aurender N200. I used to use the inbuilt network card as Roon endpoint but adding the N200 was a game changer. I don’t use Roon anymore. I’m planning to step up to either M1S2 or the M21 in the future. So far I’m happy with the way my system sounds though. 

@audphile1 , I have the Bricasti M21 DAC. My DAC has “Three independent and user-selectable digital to analog signal paths available: delta sigma and ladder dac for PCM conversion and for DSD playback, true direct DSD”. I prefer the ladder DAC.

@rbstehno there’s nothing wrong with USB interface in streamers when properly implemented. Paired with a DAC that’s optimized for this type of interface will give you better results than the SPDIF would unless your transport/streamer has the best possible OCXO clock a d that’s when the SPDIF beats USB. I’ve done enough comparisons with several streamers and unless the signal is reclocked at the source USB will always beat SPDIF. The only exception and this is when USB is garbage is when you’re using a computer as a streamer. The noise/jitter levels are too high. There’s no way around that. But again, a good implementation in a well designed streamer without ocxo clock using USB is the way to go.