+1 Mr. Kait’s post on "what's the difference?"
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"I don’t hear imaging and soundstaging in the concert hall..." "But in smaller venues there may be like a jazz club, a choir in a church or a symphony orchestra will have wonderful imaging and loads of ambiance."I would agree with viridian. Concerts, classical music, are not hi-fi. It is much more bland. My experience is mostly in larger concert halls, but mostly front row(s). Two Bluetooth speakers ran by an iPod are more "exciting". When it comes to smaller venues (think juke joints), ambiance is definitely there but imaging is not. Once it is about "rock music", talking about accuracy is a joke. It is all distorted to begin with. Sound in the concert hall is greatly influenced by the number of bodies present. I am not sure that original designers/architects take that into account. If you prefer rock CD that has ambiance, I would recommend Hindu Love Gods. It was recommended to me by Michael Green and, despite me not being perfectly aligned with some of his assessments of it, it does have ambiance. If you crank it up, you are right there in the garage where it was recorded. Except that it was not recorded in the garage. Who cares? |
@tazdevl30 Thanks for your thoughtful commentary and sage advice. Given that you are a new member here, know that despite the impression that may have been created by some of the subsequent posts many of us here value and appreciate sincere, intelligent, and experienced-based contributions such as yours. Regards, -- Al |
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Anyone who knows about music fundamentals, are aware of the 4 important characteristics necessary for the accurate reproduction of music reproduction, and it’s sounds. These 4 specific qualities are, in no particular order : ( 1 ) Dynamics; ( 2 ) Pitch; ( 3 ) Tone color; and ( 4 ) Duration. Whether in a home environment, an audio system, or actual, playing musicians, or a live venue ( non amplified ), it is wonderful to experience all 4, in order for me, at least, to appreciate the performance. Of course, over time, words such as imaging, sound staging (depth, height, width ), localization, prat, you get the idea, have all been terms created by audiophiles, such as Harry Pearson, and others. I am not questioning the importance of Eric’s initial post, but, with our ear / brain ability to pick up on the direction and orientation of sounds ( and yes, noises, all pressurized vibrations we pick up with our ears ), gives us the ability to hear all of what has been discussed here in this conversation, and so many other conversations. As we are all different and individual from one another, as we all listen and hear differently, as we all have our own " perceptions " as to what is important, and / or real, as we all have different experiences and backgrounds, I have to agree with goeffkait, as to " what is the difference ". We are all correct, as long as we continue on our journey, and can find happiness and enjoyment, with whatever music listening endeavors we experience. Enjoy ! MrD. |
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hm1 Transported is the ideal option in YOUR MUSIC ROOM! Your room is not a CONCERT HALL- but the PROGRAM MATERIAL- Speakers and components can bring you a sensory/ audible impression of the hall . Plain, simple and precise! You’re kidding, right? 😳 |
@glupson Concerts, classical music, are not hi-fi. It is much more bland. Two Bluetooth speakers ran by an iPod are more "exciting". Over the years, I've gone to and enjoyed, in various ways, many live performances, in about every genre and every venue - large and small. While many, probably wouldn't check all the boxes of being an audiophiles idea of acoustic bliss, I don't believe I've found any to be bland and all to be considerably more engaging than anything from an I phone through a small set of blue tooth speakers. Even Live Rock Concerts, even though loud and a bit hectic, can be quite engaging. Of all, I most enjoyed over the years, small venue performances featuring live acoustic instruments. Now, in my senior years, I prefer to be at home where I can (with my feet up and a cold beer or glass of chilled wine) enjoy, to a large extent, the ambiance, fulness, timber and stage of such performances, without the crowds and head numbing volume that is a basic part of most live events. As far as enjoying a great performance in the recording studio - it would be a great educational opportunity, but (except for the rare and few actual - in studio, live band recordings or live at event - bring the studio to the performance recordings) most recordings at the studio are mixed, dubbed, mastered and edited, with most performers not even there at the same time. It would sound nothing like what you would hear on the final recorded cut. Jim |
Jim, Like you, I disagree with glupson on this issue. Probably more strenuously. For me live music is anything but bland in character. Just the opposite, I’m usually overwhelmed by how much richer live music is than any home stereo system produces. An orchestra through any pair of speakers I’ve heard, no matter how expensive, is homogenized relative to the scope of timbral beauty in the real thing. In fact, I have found even live amplified sound can often sound richer and better than anything I’ve heard from an audiophile sound system, so long as the equipment used is good. When I played in a band we used to use a really nice sound system and even my keyboards had such attach and sonic richness through the sound system. Same went for the drums, or guitar etc. None of our recordings played back on even the best speakers I had truly re-created this. It was always a disappointment to here the recordings, vs the live sound. That’s the same for a great many live shows I’ve attended - not necessarily the massive stadium shows, but in a reasonably sized venue - a decent concert hall for instance - the sound was amazing. I’m thinking of a Pat Metheny concert where I was just glorying in the kaleidoscope of sound coming at me live - nothing on record ever touched it. |
There it is prof, the game is making a system recreate that “richness” of what you hear live, from the visceral impact of a rock concert to the timbral expression of a string quartet. Very few systems can do this for a multitude of reasons from bad acoustics, very few of us can afford to build a custom room, to not being on the top rung of a person’s financial obligations. But, it can be done and done for less than luxury hi fi money. Still not cheap though. So the goal is to do the best you can with the money available which has always been the fun part for me. Learning along the way. I know what you are talking about and whole heartedly agree. I’ve been chasing that solution for decades. Given a decent room it can be done. |
jhills, prof, I, like you, find live music engaging more often than not. In my post, I was, obviously in a very clumsy way, pointing towards my observations of mostly classical music concerts. At times, out of curiosity, I close my eyes and listen trying to compare it with what I have at home (admittedly, mid-fi for many, if not most, of you) and what I have heard on systems way better than mine. Each and every time, I notice that electronic reproduction has more of everything. On a good day, meaning in the right mood, those Bluetooth speakers can present as much "energy" (not in Joules, but in some virtual feel) as some of the actual concerts can, if not more. Out of curiosity, has any of you heard Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here SACD and that acoustic guitar on the title song? I am yet to have a non-audiophile person hear it and not be impressed by impact. Except that a real guitar, in the same room, does not sound anything like that. Of course, much more goes into that SACD recording and reproduction and it is, in some way, apples and oranges but nobody ever got impressed by the guitar. Everyone got impressed by the recording of a guitar. Real one is much more bland. Crappy of a guitar as it may be, it is a real deal. I tried Jose Marin's Tonos Humanos, too. Same thing. Once it comes to electrified music, trying to achieve the distortion of a live venue at home to me borders on comical. Don't get me wrong, nothing so far has beaten Chuck Berry at the Duck Room, Queen in 1979, Percy Sledge in Damrosch Park, or a few more, but in audiophile terms, they are way better at home. |
geoffkait, "Glubson, sadly perhaps, is difficult to take seriously."Do not present your lack of capability to understand as my flaw. "Rock music is all distortion to begin with? Cut me some slack, Jack! Earth to Glubson!"Instead of some slack, how about some wah-wah pedal? You can also find some informational book that will explain what knobs on an electric guitar are for. I have not read this particular one, but I suspect it may have it mentioned. https://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Dummies-Online-Video-Instruction/dp/1118872029/ref=asc_df_1118872029/?... Or you can get an idea for free... https://reverb.com/news/volume-and-tone-knobs-your-most-underrated-effects |
