More Power Part II

i've read many moons ago that you should get the most watts that you can afford! 

The power question comes from me reading someplace that to reproduce the sound level of a real piano takes 200 Watts.

That's nonsense.  And no, you should not get the most power you can afford, but the best power.  I believe Bob Carver was one of the people hyping the idea that anything less than a few hundred watts would clip, or some nonsense like that, something no reputable study has reproduced.

Good 90 Watts beats mediocre 300W any day of the week in home reproduction.  If you are trying to fill an auditorium you might feel very different.

I've had 600 wpc to 35 wpc amps over a 50 he period. The 3 best were a 45 wpc  Harmon Kardon ss and a 35 & 60 wpc tube amp. I replaced a 250 wpc with the 35 wpc and never looked back. High watt amp are not needed unless for a PA system.

All are different, owned multiple receivers, onkyo, Yamaha, pioneer, technics, Sansui, and several others since 1984.
plus amplifiers, - Onkyo, carver, proton, carvin, crown, crest,
Most were 45x45, 85x85, 100, 125, etc etc.
the amps with over 200@8 Ohm, were always better. Sounded better, effortless, and reproduced the power chords, drums solos, guitar solos, and everything else much better.
The notion of why do you need 248 more of the same watts when it’s the quality of the 2 watts. This is a selling point, advertisement of a companies product. This is my opinion, and thoughts after 35+ years owning a pick-up truck full of electronics. There is no substitute for having the headroom to power through every part of your music.
I rarely do any low level listening from my stereo system.
Many, many get rapture from a small flea watt amp into a nice pair of speakers. Personally, I’ve not had less than 250-300+ W amps since the very late 90’s til present.
  Hav clipped %90 of every receiver & amp I’ve bought until I hit the 300+ wpc mark

My opinion and experience.

Nothing more important than the watts you never use. 

Why do I feel reading this thread is like watching Tim the Tool Man?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBNPAJLhKZ4

Quality vs. Quantity

I sold my 405 WPC Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature and replaced it with a Lexicon LX-7 200 WPC amp.

I moved my 460 WPC Wyred4Sound amp into my bedroom and replaced it with Rogue Audio M-180 180 WPC amps, and more recently those have been replaced by Herron 150 WPC monoblocks.  

I replaced my Peachtree Grand X1 440 WPC integrated with an Audio Research 55 WPC tube integrated. 

My Peachtree Nova 300 WPC integrated was replaced by a Simaudio 125 WPC integrated.

Notice a pattern, besides the fact that I have found I prefer tubes and solid state amplification to Class D?  

Would I turn my nose up at a pair of D’Agostino 500 WPC Progression monoblocks?  Absolutely not!

Beside the sound quality, having a lower powered amp has the benefit of giving you finer control over volume.  With the 460 WPC W4S amp and my Klipsch Quartets, every incremental volume change is pretty noticeable.  I'm using an ARC LS26 preamp which has something like 110 stops on the volume dial.

With my Kef Reference 1 speakers in my main system (85db efficiency) and the Herron 150 WPC amps, I often have the volume around 3 o'clock, but have much finer control over the volume than I would with a more powerful amp.  And it sounds glorious.  Which matters more to me than how many watts.

Well you know it's like the saying goes, If the first watt isn't any good, why bother?

You can reproduce the sound of a piano with a little over a watt of power with certain speakers. 200 watts of power is only needed in the largest rooms with the least sensitive speakers. The problem with blanket statements like this is they do not take into account many factors that are critical to the amount of power actually needed.

I would love to have arcticdeth's hearing and be able to listen to music at his sound levels. To be young again...

Arcticdeth won’t be able to listen at those volumes for long without going deaf soon. On his ears be it. Look after your hearing now because you will regret it later on. Sound quality over loudness wins every time.

@ erik, how do you define 'best power'??

I am not getting into a definition game.

What I meant was : " Don’t buy the most power you can afford but the best power you can afford."

and that is up to your ears. My point was that power alone is a poor indicator of sound quality. Same goes for retail price.

My suggestion is to evaluate Ayre, Pass and Luxman because they sound distinctly different, around 100 Watts.  I think you will find your ears will have a strong preference for one brand which cannot be made up with more power in another.  For instance, if you like Ayre at 120 Watts/Channel, but don't like Luxman, getting a bigger Luxman won't make up the difference at all.

i've read many moons ago that you should get the most watts that you can afford!

I've read that you shouldn't believe everything you read.  Definitely not this.

@baylinor.
@dyson2004
Wish I were young. Thank you for the kind words.
I like my music with a little OOOMMPPHHH in it when playing.
Not all music is played loud all the time. Do like some volume for Motörhead, venom, kreator, Iron Maiden, cryptic slaughter, etc etc.

my hearing is............wait,.......what?




 Not me, nothing less than 250-300wpc @ 8 ohm. Everything else I’ve owned less than 150wpc  has clipped, muddied, stressed, strained the sound which I can hear.  Low background stuff is ok, but when I need to push some volume, there is absolutely no substitute for having the reserve headroom to make everything flow and give me that effortless wow factor I have only had from having the proper watts to make that possible.
  

@erik, how do you define the power from the phase linear 400 amp?? is it good power?? only reason i ask is because i had one back in the days! i now have a mcintosh mc602 amp! what's your opinion about mcintosh power???

A 1958 Philips AG9014 2 x 10 Watt valve driving an efficient speaker like Wilson, Klipsch, Tannoy or Lowther would equal a Steinway Grand from 10 metres distance.  The same with a Quad, Martin Logan or AudioStatic electrostatic panel will take 300 Watts.