Mistracking

Jimborjrjb, thanks for coming back to the fray and sorry if I sullied your thread in any way.

Here's a simple test to detect damaged or flawed vinyl:

Power up your system and cue the stylus down just prior to the offending passage, but with the TT platter NOT spinning.

Now spin the platter by hand (always clockwise!) very slowly, say 3-5rpm. Play through the passage this way several times.

The music will sound like a LF moan or growl. The damage/pressing flaw, if there is one, will sound very different. Much sharper transients than any music. You'll hear the difference easily.

Then you'll know for sure whether to attempt any adjustments.

As many of you have pointed out, and I would like to repeat is that out of my 900 plus LP's this is the ONLY one with this issue, and I have to identical copies, that have been played on 2 vastly different systems with different tables, cartridges, phono preamps, etc and I hear the issue no matter what or where I play this track on. AND its the only track on the LP that I hear any issue. So I'm inclined to chaulk it up as an issue with the pressing and or so called "re mastering" and call it a day.

Many of you have however enlightened me on several key issues and I thank you for that.

Appeals to authority are irrelevant unless the authority addressed the issue of concern, which is not the case here.

Jimbojrjb has a *specific* problem with a *specific* passage on a *specific* LP. None of the authorities cited ever played that LP. No test record has a groove matching that passage. These authorities, even if useful in theory, are irrelevant.

The OP can play other records (and 99% of this record) with no issues. Ergo, his A/S and VTF are already in the ballpark. That's all any test record could do and he's already done it.

To clean up this one offending passage he should reduce A/S, perhaps to zero (which on a Rega arm will leave some residual A/S force in effect). Just as with a test track, A/S will be correct (for this passage) when mistracking is either absent or balanced in both channels. If reducing A/S results in balanced mistracking, he'll then need to increase VTF just enough to make tracking clean. Voila!

Define the problem and the solution defines itself.

HEAR, HEAR!

No test records here.

Just a pair of experienced ears.

I find it interesting that both Shure(a company that MAY know just a LITTLE BIT about cartridges, and their function on a record surface) and Nautilus(which pressed some of the highest quality discs in the 70's and 80's), both included blank 'Anti-Skate' tracks, on their analog test records. I can't say much for Stereo Review's magazine(and never missed it), but their Model SRT 14 test record includes an excellent anti-skate test, consisting of two simultaneous tones of 300 and 303Hz. The phase of the tones varies between 0 and 360 degrees about 3 times each second. At 0 degrees; the groove cut is completely lateral, at 180; completely vertical. The overall level of the signal starts out low and increases. To make a long story short: Positioning oneself equidistant from both speakers; you listen for mistracking(a buzz which will start at some recording level) from one or the other speaker, and adjust your anti-skate in the other direction, until the sound occurs simultaneously, in both channels. Utilizing one of the blank tracks, from the first two test records mentioned, then verifying the result(which was never far off) with the 'SRT 14' test, saved me a lot of time, when I was in the business. And- I never had a customer complaint, regarding the results.

Mr. R, I concur that most tonearm manufacturer's calibrated A/S or VTF scales are of little use. I pay no more attention to those than I do to test records. The world's best tonearms don't even have such scales, for good reason.

The goal is simple: optimize the behavior of the stylus in the groove when playing music. This is all we care about (or at least all the OP cares about).

The solution is simple: adjust for the conditions we care about, ignore everything else (including blank, ungrooved surfaces, which - as Stringeen noted - do not resemble the conditions we care about).

everything needs to be verified aurally

Hear! Hear! This is the essential step. All else can be dispensed with, saving time, money and distraction.

Rodman9999... a blank disc tells you nothing about anti-skate which is a function of friction...another words, when the music is loud, more anti-skate is needed than when the music is soft. When the stylus is at the beginning of the disc which in effect is turning faster than at the end, the skating problem is effected again. Forget about test records...they do nothing beneficial.

Mr S- Please, tell me: How can a cartridge, with it's anti-skate out of adjustment, ruin a track with no grooves? Mr D- I've found the anti-skate track, on the Shure disc, to be very beneficial. It's saved me a lot of time, when setting up cartridge/tonearm/table combinations(my own and others', over the years). Of course; everything needs to be verified aurally(and further adjusted, perhaps), but- I've found the blank test track, a much more accurate tool than most manufacturers' calibrated anti-skate adjusters or VTF/weight estimates(ie: Those given for Magnepan's shot-in-the-bucket system).

The steady-state conditions of a test record don't teach us how to fine tune for the varying conditions presented by real LPs. The OP's problem is with one particular passage on one particular LP. He may be able to play a test record perfectly yet still have a problem if his passage varies markedly from the test track.

A test record is not useful for adjusting antiskating (or most other parameters) for the dynamic conditions presented by real music. Better to train one's ears to describe a problem clearly (as the OP has done), then learn how each adjustment alters certain sonic effects. This develops our understanding of what we're actually doing when we fuss with our vinyl rigs.

A/S and VTF are adjustments where the optimal setting depends on what the groove is doing to the stylus at any given moment. Adjusting them based on a test track is valid for that test track only. The ideal settings actually vary constantly, as the OP has discovered.

Rodman9999,,,an improperly working cartridge can ruin a test record with one pass making the test worthless on susequent runs.

Another good reason for the purchase of the Shure Audio Obstacle Course test record: the anti-skate test track.

Again, only on the parts of the song where Lisa really belts out a lyric.

If the distortion were happening during quiet passages then it would be random and I'd agree with Chayro. However, the coincidence with moments of big dynamics makes it far more likely that there's a system fault. The question is, which fault?

I still hear the same ever so slight distortion in the left channel only.

Eureka! This makes anti-skating (aka, anti-bias) the most probable culprit. Unbalanced lateral pressure can allow loss of stylus/groovewall contact during moments of great dynamics (big groove modulations). Excessive anti-skating pulls the stylus away from the inner groove wall, which is where the L channel information lives. Try decreasing the amount of A/S. Most inexperienced vinylphiles apply far too much and I'll wager you're one of them. :)

in all liklihood 1 of two things is occurring

a) cartridge linked mistracking is occurring. If you have had the stylus for a while it could be worn out. If the stylus is low on hours of play it could be a compliance mismatch between tonearm mass and catridge. I belive the rega arms are moderate in mass, so this is unlikely for other than a low compliance (stiff suspension) stylus. Angle of the stylus is unlikely to cause... extreme geometry styluses are more sensitive to VTA change but wrong VTA generally causes loss of detail, not distortion. But adjust it if its wrong to be sure

b) tonarm resonance at the recorded frequency. If the voice is intense in the passage, like the proverbial soprano shattering glass it can excite resonance in your tonearm causing distortion.

I reiterate; the range for your Black, is 1.4 to 1.7G, so- you can try .2 more VTF, without exceeding the recommendations. Further- the Shibata stylus is very sensitive to VTA and Rake Angle adjustments. Does your table's arm allow for those? I'd still suggest obtaining a test record, and judging the cart's performance or making adjustments, via the tracking test cuts(controlled and accurate).

If it's only happening for a split second on one part of one record, it doesn't sound like your system. Most records have a glitch somewhere. If your system had a problem, I would think you would be seeing this happening a lot more. Are you tracking at the maximum tracking force? Also, some people take issue with the Rega cartridge alignment, but it seems to work for a lot of people. You don't have to follow it if you don't want to.

Do you have a shim for the Ortofon? Most carts need a 2 mm shim, Rega carts are shorter and don't need a shim.

Sorry, it's Dead Can Dance "Into the Labrynth" track 2 side one.

Maybe I am not seeing it in your thread, but what album are you referring to ?