Michell Gyrodec, main bearing lube

 

It has been my understanding that the small ball bearing is only a 'catch bearing '.  The hydro dynamic concept used by Michael slightly lifts the platter onto a thin film of oil, and off of the balls contact surface. It ( the ball) comes into play when the platter is at rest.

 

 

Not really; the inverted pin marketed in 1991/1992 allows for uniform lubrication across the entire pin/sleeve/ball area and then back down through a small hole near the ball's support point; the oil is lifted through a spiral milling in the metal and when the platter rotates and it carries the oil uphill.
There is nothing that can lift the platter by thousandths of a millimeter as it is very heavy (in this case, magnets would be needed to lift it) but it is simply an optimal and more efficient system for lubricating all the moving metal parts.

I use Mobil 1 for my Gyrodec. And I replaced the original steel bearing with a ceramic one.  7/32 IN-C SI3N4 BALL GRADE 3 from bocabearings.com, they sell a 3 pack for around $5. 

 

Well Jazz, it's been awhile!  Did you tackle the oil change yet!

@quincy The Roksan TT's from the same era, also made a substantial effort to ensure their TT's were with Bearings that were above the typical goals being set for such parts in use on TT's.

It is good to hear that Michell in their own Wisdom addressed the Platter Bearing design in a similar way and the ling term rewards are still being discovered at the time of invasive inspections.

I am a little bit of a 'bearing eccentric' when it comes to my thoughts and intentions for a TT I am to use.

String...thanks for the tip!  Good idea!  I've been using rubbing alcohol and q-tips, but the Hoppes #9 will surely remove any type of residue! 

I cleaned my VPI Superscoutmaster similar to how HDM describes.  ,,,the turntable was dragging and not staying on speed.   I used  Hoppes #9 gun cleaner that I use to clean my firearms.....boy did it do a wonderful job with the VPI.....steady as a rock!!

The idea is to keep spindle afloat when it spins so it needs very thin layer of oil every once in a while not only around ball bearing, but around the spindle as well. Firearm oil is ideal for that.

Pin, all good points!  Thanks for the reply!

It has been my understanding that the small ball bearing is only a 'catch bearing '.  The hydro dynamic concept used by Michael slightly lifts the platter onto a thin film of oil, and off of the balls contact surface. It ( the ball) comes into play when the platter is at rest.  Hence the name, catch bearing!   

I have and do examine the flat area on the spindle ' post' for any marks ruled unusual, with a good magnifying glass, and so far so good...

@quincy Across multiple forums, there are individuals with various Skill Sets investigating and creating methods to improve on the Mechanical Interfaces on TT's of all Drive Types.

Belt Drives are well known for modifications and this area extends to the Gyro Deck and Orbe.

In numerous cases the changes made are reversible, but after being experienced usually not wanted to be reversed.

The most simplistic modifications is to change a Ball / Thrust Pad Assembly using Original but New Materials or alternate types of New Materials.    

As for the Gyro since 02, Oil changes are not going to prevent the Spindle Ball from coming into contact other Metals at a Interface. The Ball is a Sacrificial Part and if not exchanged, in the case of your Gyro, has 22 years of usage.

Has the Ball been checked for scribing or Pitting on the surface?

Has the other parts the Ball Interfaces with been checked for excess indentation caused from metal on metal grinding away the surface?   

Lot's of great comments here.  I've had my Gyro since 02.  I change the oil every year with 5w30 full synthetic Mobile One.  New belt every 4-5 years.  It's an amazingly well designed table.  It's really easy as others have described.  I'm not sure about the little ball bearing replacement.  I've never had issues with my original.  Good luck!  You can do this!

Lot's of great comments here.  I've had my Gyro since 02.  I change the oil every year with 5w30 full synthetic Mobile One.  New belt every 4-5 years.  It's an amazingly well designed table.  It's really easy as others have described.  I'm not sure about the little ball bearing replacement.  I've never had issues with my original.  Good luck!  You can do this!

In relation to Swapping out Bearing Parts in exchange for parts that are creating a condition where non-Metal on Metal is to occur, as a result of Lubrication methods that are proving not able to isolate the materials from coming into contact at the interfaces.

A Silicone Nitride, Thermoplastic or Jewel are all with inherent properties that are proven as being sufficient as an alternative material. Especially when Lubrication Methods used are able to produce a film layer that separates the materials where non-contact is maintained.

When non-contact between parts is a condition that is in place, the noise that is generated will be almost inseparable between between any of the 'go to' materials selected to be used at interface.

There are materials that do have a Lower Coefficient of Friction in relation to another material, hence, as an example, Sapphire has an attractive Property for this reason, but does have the Compromising Property of being quite Fragile.

Reducing Friction / Drag is a mechanical property that is a desirable property to achieve when creating a tweak to a design for Platter Bearings function. Hence, the robustness of a Silicon Nitride Ball, and the Coefficient of Friction has properties that make it attractive as a Part.    

In a common Platter Spindle Baring design the likelihood of creating a non-Contact interface between parts is very difficult, not many experience it.

Parts come into contact, hence, Parts chosen are Sacrificial and non-Sacrificial, hence Bushes and Balls are typically not as hard as a Platter Spindle. The Spindle being the most expensive part to replace, if machining is required.

Sacrificial Parts being softer and having been in contact with other Materials will cause wear. Balls can become a part with a Scribed Surface, Bushes can loose inner circumference and become a part that enables a eccentric rotation to take place. Either of these present to a certain condition are able to create noise and inconsistencies in the Speed of the TT.

When considering an exchange of Parts in a Platter Spindle Bearing Housing, especially one with a decent period of usage, there is more than one parts condition only to consider and more than one thing to consider for how the Bearing Housing can be designed to function as a overhauled design.

Changing from an alternative material Ball to a Silicon Nitride Ball will not in nearly all cases be a detriment.

The process required to change a Ball is seemingly the concern that has to be worked out to create the methodology that works for a successful operation.

The Link may increase confidence 

  https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?52213-Cheap-upgrade-for-michell-gyro          

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 I am considering using the silicone nitride ball in place of the steel one as recommended by hdm above , but some discussion on vinyl engine says this is a bad idea and could cause damage. Anyone else have experience of using the silicon ball and could comment on this before I take the plunge.

I don’t want to do damage.

Just two of their own proprietary oil. I believe essentially a thicker and thinner version of the same oil. The thinner (standard version I believe) is appropriate for the inverted bearing on the Gyro/Orbe.

It appears they also sell the original Linn "black oil" as well.

@hdm 

how many types of oil does Origami have?

Not significantly different in doing an oil change on the older bearing and the newer inverted bearing (I've owned my Gyrodec since 1985 so have done multiple changes on both types of bearings) but the old style bearing would not be usable immediately following a change and would need at least a few hours to settle and seat properly.

With respect to oil, I've used Mobil 1 0W-40, Amsoil 0W-40 and the Audio Origami oil over the years, switching to the Audio Origami oil in the past few years. Anecdotally/subjectively, the Audio Origami oil is superior IMO in terms of sound quality; improvements are slight but they are there. The ceramic ball bearing makes a much bigger improvement in sound quality.

The Audio Origami oil is unquestionably a better lubricant though and much better at reducing friction in the bearing; the platter spins more freely and easily than with any other oil I've used. Worth the extra money IMO.

@hdm   it's all right, the original oil costs too much for a few drops it offers, Michell herself recommends the Mobil synt 0W40.
Whether the turntable has the old type of pin or the one upside down, the procedure for cleaning and replacing oil does not change.

It’s really not that difficult. Undo the knurled nut securing the platter to the top of the bearing housing and lift the platter straight up and off, using a thumb to press down on the spindle as you’re doing so.

Then lift the top half of the bearing housing straight off; it is free floating-simply lift straight up BUT be careful not to lose the steel ball bearing. It might be sitting on top of the shaft attached to the lower part of the housing but will more than likely be adhered (in a film of oil) in the upper recess of the top half of the bearing housing. Usually a couple of firm raps on a solid table will dislodge it if that is the case but don’t lose it. In the worse case, scenario you may have to use a magnetic screw driver to get it out but be very careful not to scratch the internals of the upper part of the bearing housing.

Once you’ve done that, clean out/clean off all the old oil from both bottom of housing (well and shaft) and upper recess in top half of housing using a lint free cloth.

Then add 2 1/2-3 mm of fresh oil (Mobil 0W-40 or if you want something more exotic-it is better IMO-Audio Origami oil) into the lower well, put a couple of drops of new oil on top of the shaft and place the ball bearing in the middle of the top portion of that shaft in those drops of oil and then replace the upper half of the bearing and put your platter back on and secure it.

If you want a cheap, huge bang for the buck upgrade, order a 7/32" Grade 3 Silicon Nitride ceramic ball from Boca Bearings, wait for it to arrive and use that instead of the steel ball when you do your oil change. Significant improvement in any resolving system for less than $5.

Personally, I prefer to change the oil and ball in my Gyro every 2-3 years. Would never go 5-6 years on an oil change.