MHDT Orchid or Lampizator Amber 3?

@facten if you find yourself in Nashville you’re welcome to stop by my shop; I have a LampizatOr Golden Atlantic TRP on the floor along with other fine lines that may pique your curiosity.

- Colin
https://gestalt.audio

Thanks Colin; I put your link in my bookmarks; will let you know

Did anybody compare  MHDT Orchid or Lampizator Amber 3 to
Chord DACs? Like: Qutest, Hugo TT, Hugo TT2, Dave, Mojo, Hugo2?

@alexberger


Not directly. I couldn’t fall in love with my Dave, but it was probably just me.

@alexberger

I have owned Chord Mojo, Qutest w/ high-end linear power supply, old Qute HD w/ battery power supply etc. and now own Border Patrol SE. BP SE Dac sounds better to my ears even if BP supports only up to 24/96. (And Amber 3 and modded Orchid seem to sound better than BP SE according to many other Audiogon members)

The Border patrol accepts a 24/96 feed (and outputs spdif 24/96 on the usb only model) but it only processes 16/44.1 and it STILL sounds better than most dacs on the market. You have a great dac @yoyodyne !

I don't use streaming. I only listen CDs and vinyl.
So, for me only 16bit/44.1KHz is important.

Well it seems this little MHDT Orchid has more tricks up it’s tiny  sleeve! This is not a dac you just plug and play and expect to get the most out of it.  One of my customers and a good audio buddy  purchased the Orchid with my upgrades and just loves it. He is also a big tweaker and decided to try the tube rolling idea which goes beyond the WE tube LTA sells with the Orchid.  

Well he purchased a tube socket adaptor from this vendor....

http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm

He purchased the one at the bottom of the page so he could use his 
Siemen & Halske E88CC Gold pin tube. His unit has my upgrades,  the SR Orange fuse and now the tube socket to roll E88CC tubes.  He was so excited with the outcome that he could hardly contain himself.  The soundstage grew well beyond the sides of the speakers and also became taller. He commented it was like opening the flood gates.  The new tube can play at louder volumes with a greater ease and smoothness. He felt the overall improvement was on the order of 20%. Now this is in his system and your mileage may vary.  

He also purchased a 6sn7 socket adaptor and will roll some very nice 6sn7 tubes this weekend.  This will be most interesting! 

What a fun little dac that can with some diligence and attention to the details be made to sound far better than stock.....and the stock unit is no slouch! 

The Orchid is the little dac that could! 

Have used Siemens in my Modwright Elyse DAC, it is very nice sounding

I purchased the same adapter for my grannyring modified Orchid dac and there is a nos Mullard ECC189/CV5331 low noise 6DJ8 military stock tube on the way. Will report back. 😊

That is great! Let us know the result.  The new tube will need 40-60 hours of play time. I am really interested in the big bottle cv181 6sn7 equivalent and how it will sound. The top plate tube hole will need to be expanded a bit using a simple step up drill bit. I bet this one tube ends up being very special. My audio buddy should be trying one today or tomorrow. 

Which 6sn7 do you have?
Modern production of vintage?
Try Ken-Rad vt231 black glass from 40x. They are great and not crazy expansive.

50'-60's Marconi's

rx8man

You may be much more technically savvy than me, but I just looked up the specs on a 6SN7 tube and compared them to the 396A tube. Whereas the specs for a 6DJ8 appear to be pretty equivalent, unless I am reading things incorrectly (which could very well be the case!), the specs for the 6SN7 appear to be quite different. Maybe no damage to the dac would happen, but  I wonder how those differences in specs will impact the sound.

Do they support 6SN7 tubes with the proper adapter (Garage1217)?

In all our dacs, tube is acting as a buffer.
So, the tube is a passive compnents in circuit and so a fixed set up (bias). No needs to adjust resistors’ value for most tube.

However, the tube is working on -17.5 to + 17.5 volts, quite a very low voltage in tube’s world.
5670 can works on this low voltage because 5670 was design and developed for minitary communication equipment during WWII. So, it can be work on hardest enviorment such as low battery source and hard vibration. All pencil tubes were designed to be used in air plane, they also have same characteristics like 5670. 6SN7 is a commercial tube, it may also works on our dac but sound must be another issue.

Best Regards,
Jiun
Mhdt Lab

Subjective/anecdotal impressions would suggest that 6SN7 tubes do indeed work.

I didn't realize you got the A OK from Jiun!
Thanks.
I did notice in the specs that the gain from the 6SN7 tube is lower than the 396A; maybe not quite enough to be noticeable, and, maybe as a buffer, gain is not an issue anyway.
Will be interesting to hear what your findings are.
This is indeed one helluva great sounding dac with grannyrings mods and the SR Orange fuse. Yes, I admit it, I am a grannyring 'fan boy'. 

My experience with 6sn7 tubes in preamps has proven the Psvane T-series black bottle tubes (cv181) sounds as good, and in most cases,  better than the myriad of well touted NOS 6sn7 tubes.

Only problem is these cv181 tubes don’t seem to last as long.

Can someone send me a link to the adapter I would need to roll a cV 181 (6 SN7) for the ORCHID. Also with this adapter/riser in place do you still need to enlarge the thru hole of the top plate?

2nd from bottom:
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm

Same place on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GARAGE1217-6SN7-TO-5670-396A-TUBE-SOCKET-ADAPTER-OUTSTANDING-BUILD-QUALITY/...

I have both CV-181Z and 6SN7, but I will run *6SN7* FIRST, to be sure things are smooth and steady.

Hole needs to be enlarged like I mentioned (7 posts above) for 6SN7 or run topless till you decide.
The hole would need to be larger yet for CV-181 obviously, if I do that, I’m machining it properly.

The E88CC, 6922, 6DJ8 family will poke through the stock size hole about a half inch or so above plate.

Grannyring......
Agree with your thoughts on the CV- 181(6SN7) but I am using the Shuguang version and have not had any issues with premature failures.....yet....🙂. Not sure how they differ/sound versus Psvane

By the way do you mind posting again the brand of resistors and caps and values, that you use to mod the ORCHID.
Thanks...

Rx8man
I see another adapter on their page. It’s the 4th from bottom. So are you sure the second from the bottom is the one I need. 
Thanks 

Musicman, 2nd one from bottom, specific to convert to 5670 / 396A socket.

CV-181Z vs. 6SN7: https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html

Thanks Rx8........

The Shuguang version is also said to be very good.  Great thread guys. 

Bill
Email sent in regards to your Orchid mod.
😁😁

Another Grannyring fan here.
I love how this thread is developing.  Gonna wait awhile longer and may give tube rolling a go.  I'm using the WE tube now.
- Bob
PS - Bill, bbq'd a pastrami yesterday.  Off the charts!

I agree this is a great thread with lots of fantastic and pertinent information.

The only trouble I am having right now is this......

Trying to decided between a Orchid and Bills mods, an Amber 3 or an Audio Mirror Tubadour.

Very, very tough choice!

Get all three! LOL. Seriously, these are all terrific dacs. Peace to all.

Uberwaltz, I agree it is difficult to know how to proceed, but in a sense, it is a nice problem to have.   One really could buy all three, either sequentially or concurrently, because all have their advocates, and therefore the resale market should be good.

I have a customer’s Orchid here with some 30 hours on it post surgery. It also has the SR Orange fuse. I have been comparing it to my Amber 3 with SR Orange fuse and Mullard 12au7. I can easily live with both. Don’t miss the other when one is playing.

The Orchid is warmer. The Amber slightly more open and resolving. The Orchid sounds right on more recordings while the Amber is more fussy with its slightly better resolution sometimes hurting enjoyment of lesser quality recordings.

The Amber = impressive sonic feats of strength with good to great recordings.

The upgraded Orchid = smile and enjoyment of most recordings without Aphile anxiety.

The tube rolling upgrade options would take the Orchid up another level making it an undeniable top contender. The resolution and soundstage gap may be closed with tube socket and tube varieties mentioned above.

The Orchid is still some $1000 less than the Amber with all upgrades.

I am happy with my decision to keep the Amber 3.  I have many DSD recordings and really enjoy the Amber’s sound and nuance. DSD recordings do sound better than non-DSD in my system.   

@uberwaltz Don't forget that you can get reasonable home demo periods with both the AM and Lampizator (through Colin @ Gestault Audio).  Obviously can't do the same with the modded Orchid, but at least you can have two duke it out in your own system...

@cal3713 I appreciate the recommendation. @uberwaltz happy to help you audition an Amber in your home, in your system.

- Colin
https://gestalt.audio

Rx8....

Which 6SN7.... the CV - 181Z?

Nice!The same sort of thing happens when I put ECC88s in my Tubadour.Really expands the sound.I'd love to find out if 6SN7s would work but it's too tight and they wouldn't fit dammit!

I posted on this thread a while ago about installing a 6DJ8 in my Orchid via the 5670/6DJ8 adapter. I think in my post I mentioned. Something along the lines of the sound changing from that of a Baldwin Piano to that of a big Steinway. Well, I now have a Western Electric tube and the Tesla tube that are both on the MHDT Labs recommended Tier 1 tube rolling list. They all sounded good, and they all sound slightly different. 

Would love to try all three DAC Ghasley but realistically.... Not likely. Lol.

After talking with Bill I am just about decided on buying a Orchid and having him mod it right away.

Then it will be tube rolling time.

It's still a lot less dollars even with mods than the Amber 3 or a fully tricked out Tubadour.

@grannyring Are you planning on modifying the Amber 3? I wonder how much it can improve with the ODAM. 

Hey Gentlemen,

Wanted to share that either on a standard Orchid or modified one, with grannyring's specs, that placing it on Krolo Design Enhansers (foot cone units that cost $250 for a set of three) make significant and easy to hear improvements of the Orchid's performance. More transparency, therefore  easier to hear micro-details, more air around the players and more precise location and layering in the sound-stage, and tighter/accurate bass.  On these devices the Orchid loses none of its musicality and charm, but improves in the above stated areas.

The auditioning of using the Krolo Design devices was done in three different systems, both solid state and tubed based, with the same wonderful results.  Therefore, the positive changes do not seem to be system dependent.  Highly recommend you Orchid owners consider this rather inexpensive upgrade for your DAC.  

I did a Six Moons website review on these cone units, if you want more information on them.

I don’t want to derail this thread, but for those who are considering an Orchid you might want to do some internet searching for the TDA 1541A based DAC from Abbas Audio. Hand made in Ukraine and very competitively priced. Very nerdy parts selection.

I love my Orchid but have been really curious about the Abbas Audio pieces...

I came up dry too, one thing I found was this image search: 
https://www.google.com/search?q=abbas+audio+dac&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKE...

Abbasaudio.com.

All one word.

http://www.abbasaudio.com/dac-3.0-abbasaudio.html?language=en

Ha, beaten to it.
They do have some of their products on eBay too.