MHDT or Border Patrol

Update, 4-years later. Recent dacs tested and a few updates to share, fwiw.

MHDT Orchid, 2019:

Sold my lovely MHDT Labs Orchid DAC w/cap upgrades to a happy new owner. Went with all the tubes, GE, *5-Star, WE, Telsa, and more. Nice for a r2r chip dac.

• Solid value, can sound nice with the right tube, warmup a must.
• Upgrading the caps helps it some more. Great service from Juin.
• Responsive to higher quality interconnects. Try a few.

Schiit Bifrost 2/64, 2023:

Have since tried the new Schiit Bifrost 2/64 dac with dual TI processors, NOS mode, and no tubes in the signal path, as desired. Extra Great Value for the $!

• Smooth clean tone, texture, detail, layering.
• Sound stage is there, w/NOS mode is a nice option.
• Responsive to higher quality interconnects. Try a few.

BorderPatrol SE-I, 2023:

June 2023, custom ordered the new BP SE-I version dac in Black with the new Jupiter Beez Wax caps and new Choke design. Tube is NOT in the direct signal path. Using tube rectification for the Power Supply. Worth a serious look-see.

• Weighty, its a heavy little well built hand made tank w/real iron inside!
• IF hypersonic in-your-face-detail sizzle is your thing, look elsewhere.
• IF massive sound stage, over-sampling is your thing, look elsewhere.
• Yes, its a tad more laid back, and with the right speakers, very nice!
• MIDRANGE, oh my gosh, think AudioNote type sound, presentation.
• Smooth, tone, organic, texture, no etch, zero midrange glare, none.
• Music listening sessions jumped from 2hrs max, to 6-8hrs, no sleep!

 

 

I have a Pagoda, single ended. Very happy for the sound. Neutral yet organic super detailed in both frequency ends. Got hold of a new production JJ 6386 tube listed in class 1 by the designer Jiun. http://mhdtlab.com/tube.htm. This change lifted the dac up,to a much higher level. More 3d, more air even more music. This dac is the best ever in my system. Now looking for upgrades. If any.....

Just got the Border Patrol Se-i and it's a wonderful. Exhibiting all the characteristics described here in this thread for the MHDT and you shut the tube on or off to your liking. Built in the US (not Taiwan) and the support from Gary is fantastic. i don't think you could go wrong with either of these DACs but my pick would be the BP given it's proven reliability and made in the US and flexibility. 

I just purchased the balanced pagoda and it's replaced a schiit multibit, I think I need several weeks of burn in but my setup has never sounded so good. Can't wait to upgrade this thing. 

Gelle, I'm fascinated by all this. For an owner using a Lampi GG to want for nothing in using an MHDT is a fantastic testimonial.
And your's amongst dozens more that are 100% effusive.
Is this dac the single biggest bargain in digital audio.
I'm trying to find a corresponding bargain in servers/streamers.
My attention is drawn to the c$1k Limetree Network Bridge.
I'm thinking that plus BBQ Audio-modded Orchid or Pagoda is the way to go for this computer audio novice.

Well. I ended up with a Orchid. It replaced my Oppo 105. I have ~50-60 hours on the stock GE tube an it’s really opened up. The whole sound stage seems In front of you if that makes any sense. So much so I hooked my Oppo 105 into the Orchid and my Redbook seems more alive as well. I also have a Western Electric JW396A D getter W-E military tube en route which I hear is supposed to be amazing. 

Guys, what a fascinating thread. Normally I only hang around the analog forums (more shade there, I can stay hidden Lol), but I'm finally (Covid-permitting) gonna try and get off the fence and make that streaming purchase, obv needing to settle on a dac.
My dilemmas are trying to converge on a SQ level-price point based on streaming likely to run alongside my tt and also my cdp...yes, I still buy cds to add to the 1.5k that I already own played thru a $15k cdp.
Even w streaming, I'm likely to carry on buying lps and cds.
I have no idea where streaming will take me...if I end up with an unengaging server/dac, or I struggle w the interface, or I don't find much I like on the æther (I'll be looking for unusual prog, fusion and ambient electronica deep genre searches), the whole thing could be a waste of cash

...hence my joy at finding this line of dacs. MHDT almost looks too good to be true. Warm AND revealing, toneful AND dynamic...and open to tube rolling
...and critically for this potential customer at least who is really unsure of the lay of the land, hugely affordable.

Am I reading you fanboys correctly...you CAN have it (almost) all, for a fraction of the cost of spendy bigger names like Chord, Aqua, Lampi etc?

gelle
The Orchid uses Phillips TDA1541A-R1, which is the top of the line DAC from that Phillips 15xx series, compared to the lower cost TDA1545A chips used in the Canary. The Orchid uses an OPA861 transistor for output gain whereas the Canary uses additional TDA1545A chips for output gain. This link below summarizes all differences;

http://www.mhdtlab.com/mhdt%20dac%20families.htm

Can someone explain the difference between the Orchid and Canary? I see there's a difference in the "I/V stage" but not exactly sure what that means. 

Great to hear. Thank you! 

@hilde45 I bought my MHDT Labs Orchid second hand. USB was not working when I received it. I reached out to Jian at MHDT. He sent me a replacement board at no cost, knowing I wasn't the original owner. Maybe the best customer service I've ever experienced. I think they're made in Taiwan, but don't quote me on that. 

Reading and looking based on this thread. QUESTION: How is MHDT as a company for communication and service? Where are they made? I'm not against any company, location wise, but if shipping, repairs, service or company longevity are an issue, it helps me choose. Thanks.

Regarding the Mhdt Pagoda or their other dacs 
putting in a better fuse is a noticable gain , as well as good power cord 
inside get rid of all the 6 white capacitors and replace them with the exceptional 
Millflex Copperfoil poly paper in oil .very reasonably priced  and a Big step up 
in resolution and everything in between but take $3-500 hours to fully run in .
these are proven mods I heard them both side by side  no comparison with upgrades .sonic craft sell the caps ,and parts connecxion when they have in stock which is seldom lately.

The Western Electric many say is the top best tube for the Pagoda.
anything Western Electric made was excellent and only $50 a tube , but do check out others  for your taste.

For the record ,the Mhdt Pagota doesnot use the 16 bit 1541 Phillips chipset,
It  uses the classic true 20  bit Burr Brown 1704 dac which. Has better resolution .

Tubes matter when it comes to (my) MHDT Labs Pagoda dac.

It pays off to do something investigating into the tube(s) that matches what you're looking for. I've tried numerous tubes in my Pagoda, but the best by a large margin are the Reflektor '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields. 

They're much clearer and natural sounding to my ears and in my system, than any other tube I've tried. They sound distinctly different and better. 

I really recommend trying different tubes if you go the MHDT Labs route.

A bit late and maybe of no interest. I faced same challenges finding digital sound flat and lacing life, almost sat on in comparison to records. My cd front end was a canary ct-600 transport via chord qutest, vinyl front end a vpi prime signature, Ortofon quinex black, ear834p, all played through ear 834 amp and ml esl9 speakers. I am currently trying out a Copland DAC 215 and it sounds superb. May be worth comparing...

Thanks. That does bode well if they are that responsive and helpful to issues.  Perhaps some of the other owners were not as willing to reach out to the manufacturer.  Hard to know.

I've been reading more about the MHDT DACs in forums all over and one theme keeps popping up. Time and time again, I see owners saying the reliability has not been great from boards going bad, to tubes dying quickly, to inputs not functioning anymore. The reviews of the sound are encouraging, but it seems like they don't last too long past their warranty end of 1 year before some failure or another. Can any long-term MHDT owners confirm that?

I haven't had mine for a long time, but here's a story about my MHDT Orchid.  I bought mine second hand here a little over 2 months ago.  Initially I was using it between my Blue Sound Node 2 and my preamp, connecting via coax. 

I decided to give it a try in my computer system and when I tried to use the USB input, I couldn't get it to work.  At first I thought it was a driver problem, so I contacted Jian at MHDT.  He was very helpful, but the driver didn't fix the problem.  He said " mail me your shipping address, I'll send a new board to you."  Mind you, I told him that I had purchased it from someone else.  Within a few days, the new board arrived and it did take care of the problem. 

Other than some frustration and a few minutes to swap out the board, it didn't cost me anything.  I'm guessing that there may have been some problems and they are aware of them, but it also seems that they stand solidly behind their products.  Whether there's been a fix moving forward or not, I don't know. 

My suggestion would be to contact MHDT and ask.  Jiun was very responsive and I was frankly very surprised that he would provide a replacement board for free to someone who wasn't the original owner.

I've been reading more about the MHDT DACs in forums all over and one theme keeps popping up.  Time and time again, I see owners saying the reliability has not been great from boards going bad, to tubes dying quickly, to inputs not functioning anymore.  The reviews of the sound are encouraging, but it seems like they don't last too long past their warranty end of 1 year before some failure or another.  Can any long-term MHDT owners confirm that?

The Pogota has what many feel the best dac chipset ever made the Lsser trimmed Burr Brown 1704/dacs  ,the use 1 per channel and is a true 20 bit 
not 16 like the Havana which is still very good ,the Pogota takes it to another level.   The only competition maybe the New Audio mirror Trubadour-3 dac
which is $1500 .

I have own balance Pagoda DAC for less than a month but so far I love the sound of it , very natural and musical , even the music or music video from you tube was sound allot separate and better , can’t go wrong with either mhdt 

Lavorgna's latest review (Twittering Machines) on the Border Patrol DAC SE:

https://twitteringmachines.com/review-border-patrol-dac-se/

Pretty high praise I'd say.

@jeenam 

If you're not wanting "tube sound", I would recommend the Pagoda. Mine doesn't sound like a tube DAC at all. It is the most neutral and revealing is the MHDT DACs.

I didn't and don't want a tube sounding DAC either. The Pagoda fits the bill. And it's modifiable for even better performance 

01-14-2019 7:23pm
...I really wish the MHDT units were offered without the tube buffer stage as I run a tube preamp and don't really need/want more 'tube' sound in the signal chain.

fwiw, my MHDT Orchid DAC plugs into a Cary SLP-98 tube preamp with four NOS Sylvania 6SN7 front end tubes and I find the sound to be clean, musical, and fast as-long-as I don't run overly syrupy tubes in the preamp or the DAC or my tube amp.  All tube.  Sounds nice and natural - no edge.  The MHDT factory suppled stock GE 5670 5-star Triple Mica tube works out nicely in this particular Orchid DAC. The ability to tune sound with different tubes in the DAC is a nice feature I prefer, actually.

I agree the original Arcam irDAC is a good value at the current used prices. However, after stepping up to a NAD M51 I would not go back if you can afford to spend $700 on a used M51. I previously owned a MHDT Paradisea and after reading through this thread I may consider purchasing another NOS DAC (MHDT or Metrum) at some point. However, I really wish the MHDT units were offered without the tube buffer stage as I run a tube preamp and don't really need/want more 'tube' sound in the signal chain.

jeenam77
posts01-12-2019 7:14pmThe Parasound ZDAC for $200 is crap. I had one and it was not very good. Arcam irDAC was a far better value, though slightly more expensive. I would never recommend anyone purchase the ZDAC v1 or v2.

Now having owned the MHDT Orchid for a bit, looking back my prior Arcam irDAC and irDAC-II units were pretty solid values IMHO. Each with their own signature sound. While the later irDAC-II version was more open and airy (tad brighter, more forward) with it’s ESS chipset implementation, I probably should have kept the prior irDAC Burr Brown version - it was smooth, no glare (tad softer, more laid back presentation). Both were kinda tunable with simple quality Copper or Silver over copper IC changes for Analog out to my preamp. The new owners were pleased to buy either and I got the feeling afterwards they knew "better" than I did at the time of sale :)

The Parasound ZDAC for $200 is crap. I had one and it was not very good. Arcam irDAC was a far better value, though slightly more expensive. I would never recommend anyone purchase the ZDAC v1 or v2.

@teajay for instance would you say Orchid is a better value than Lab12 DAC1 SE?

I know these questions may be boring for you (which is totally understandable). However, not many of us get to test/buy these units.  

I personally would pick the one which has better 3D imaging but not regardless of price. If Orchid does come close to Lab12 DAC1 SE in this area, it is a better choice for me. Obviously, 3D imaging is not the only reason to pick a DAC but you know what I am saying I think:)

Nice find @kalali . Curious to know if you’re any closer to a decision.

Found this. Good comparison chart for MHDT DACs. Note the output specs.

http://www.mhdtlab.com/mhdt%20dac%20families.htm

"Orchid DAC is capable of up to 24bits/192kHz digital signal inputs yet remains driving legendary TDA1541A R-2R digital to analog output"

Technically, TDA1541A is a 16-bit chip so while the DAC "accepts" 24/192 input the output is probably limited to 16/44.1. Nonetheless, per decoony above, it obviously still sounds great taking in higher resolution Tidal HiFi sourced content.

Hi celo,

Besides the Orchid doing everything across the sonic spectrum beautifully, it also produces "meat on the bone" 3D imaging and terrific air around players in a realistic layered soundstage if on the recording.  It's a great DAC and I know you love the LTA MZ2, you would also love what this DAC does too. 

@teajay when is the Orchid review coming?

I am very interested in this DAC because of the TDA1541 chip. However, not sure if it does the 3D holographic thing well. This is my first priority. That’s why I bought the LTA MZ2. Would you say Orchid, at least for the money does 3D soundstage well enough?

When comparing DACs from MHDT, there was quite a bit of discussion over at AC the past few years from one owner comparing the various units, including the Orchid, Pagoda. He found the Orchid to be a tad more "laid back and smoother" (TDA1541 R1) compared to his Pagoda. Interesting thing is he sold then sold Orchid, then he sold the Pagoda. I noted some confusion information about the tubes tested, and don’t feel this member gave it long enough rolling and evaluating different tubes - jumping around too much too fast, IMHO.  And, recently saw a post where the same person now "wishes he had not sold the Orchid". Grass is greener, and it was less brown than he thought...Gotta give it time to break in and different tubes can change the sound. Really enjoying this part of the MHDT Labs DACs both GE 5670 5 Star Tiple Mica and the legendary Western Electric WE396A along with a few other tubes, fwiw.

Orchid: I stream content both Spotify Premium and Tidal Hi-Fi, and ALAC and FLAC from my Mac Mini. Both work well, Tidal HiFi definitely comes through it with more detail through the Orchid and surprisingly, does really well with Spotify Premium, a tad softer, missing some detail, but still very engaging.

Choose your flavor.

And, right on the MHDT Labs page, yes, Orchard supports 24/192, noted here: "Orchid DAC is capable of up to 24bits/192kHz digital signal inputs yet remains driving legendary TDA1541A R-2R digital to analog output", link: http://www.mhdtlab.com/Orchid.htm

Thanks.  Reached out last night and it sounds like they have tested it with Android devices with success but no iOS devices.  Though I assume that bodes well for iOS and other such lower power USB devices, they said they would test an iPhone soon to confirm.

I'm not using the USB input, but as I'm writing this, I'm listening to a solo cello recording from SoundCloud, through a Chromecast, into the optic input.

I would contact MHDT Labs about their USB input to see if anything is needed. 

I've been mulling over the Border Patrol for a few weeks and considering its merits against an iFi DSD Pro which seems to get great reviews for its sound, has tons of filters and sound adjustments to fine tune to your taste, and incorporates a tube with a few ways to add it into the sound.  I only recently read about the MHDT DAC and had never heard of it before at all.

Is anyone using it via USB from an iPhone or iPad streaming Tidal or Spotify?  That's my main source most of the time, so if the MHDT can handle that, I'll have to add them into the mix.

Great input, thanks. I’m also following the other thread about the Border Patrol DAC with great interest and try to weigh the options. The Orchid seems to be slightly more reasonably priced than the BP SE model and looks a little nicer too.

It’s nice to listen to music again and if I’ve learned anything, I’ll never let perfect specs dictate a decision again. Gotta listen to it at home on your system with your speakers and room setting.

Quote of the day/week/month. Always good to keep in mind audio gear is a blend of both science and art. As much as I like the gear side of this hobby it's just a means to an end .. enjoying music. Instead of the endless arguments, it would be nice if both objectivists and subjectivists would embrace the idea that good engineering is the foundation allowing art to soar. One without the other is handicapped. To quote Aristotle, "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts".

kalali
...I would like to "upgrade" to a non-OS tube DAC just to see if it adds more body and texture to the music without losing detail.

>>MHDT Orchid<<. Done for a while, Thankfully.

Came close to acquiring the BP DAC. Finally settled on the MHDT. Liked the initial design and approach with the MHDT too, and it comes in Black, not a fan of Silver. Gary at BP would not entertain Black faceplates without a run of 50 units up front. Fast forward a month of use now and I’m truly enjoying a recently new MHDT Orchid with stock coupling caps and have now come full circle back to the stock original GE 5670 Five Star Triple Mica tube that came installed in the DAC brand new. No need for the S1 or S2 crown chips IMHO, the R1 chip sounds great and other reviewers have commented the same; "just be patient and let it run in for a good while". After trying a few different DACs prior, including a very highly regarded oversampling DAC with absolute best-in-industry specs on paper, I knew I had to try the complete opposite end of the spectrum of "latest & greatest" tech in oversampling DACs, go in reverse, and try a proven NOS DAC with a great design including the good ole’ Philips TDA1541A chip similar to what was used in my prior beloved Marantz SE CD player. Since I run tube preamp and tube amp, and prior non-tube DACS were not cutting it for me, a tube DAC became a must this go-around with my next DAC!. It was also helpful to find others already well down this discovery path with plenty of posts, updates, photos all over the web about MHDT DACS.

After rolling a few tubes, including the famous Western Electric WE396A / 2C51, other GE tube, TungSol in the Orchid, it was nice to realize it sounds pretty darn nice straight outta the box BUT it needs 3+ weeks of solid burn-in time before things truly start to open up and settle in.

Also a fellow member/colleague owns the Abbas 2.1SE, MHDT Havana, and recently new MHDT Orchid too doing some home baked DAC-offs with a good selection of tubes. His findings are very similar to my own. The Orchid sounds "natural", musical, very enjoyable. In a revealing system, the Orchid’s sound can change with simple tube changes if you wanna tube it to a particular open, detailed or softer and laid back sound with simple tube changes. It’s nice to listen to music again and if I’ve learned anything, I’ll never let perfect specs dictate a decision again. Gotta listen to it at home on your system with your speakers and room setting. Good Luck, hope this helps.

@schubert 

Love it

I won't buy anything called Border Patrol  .

The other MHDT Labs dacs are not as information rich as the Pagoda, and don't use chips that are held in as high estemm as the PCM1704, so I did not consider them. However, the other dacs are warmer, and that might be what you're looking for. 

I have a balanced Pagoda and I think it sounds amazing. 

I looked at the Border Patrol before I got the Pagoda. When researching dacs, I could not find a negative word written about the sound of the Pagoda. It was always characterized as being detailed yet natural, and I that's exactly what I hear in my system. I didn't want a dac that warmed over information or would make my ears bleed. The Pagoda just sounds right. 

I also wanted a true balanced dac. The Pagoda won. I only wished I'd bought it later so that I could get the J grade chips that he offers now. 

I would heartily recommend the dac to anyone. 

@kalali- be careful- that 'support' doesn't mean the BP will output hi-rez, only that it will process it and output it at standard Redbook  resolution.