Meitner i upgrades

Meitner Audio are located in Calgary, Alberta. A long way from Ontario, 2 long days drive. There is also a mail strike going on in Canada right now. This is not helpful.

Too bad I am selling mine. It’s black and like new. 

Why have you decided to sell yours?

What about it do you feel is lacking?

What are you moving on to?

Best wishes,

Don

Sonically, I wonder how the MA3i compares to the EMM Labs DV2i?

I'm in queue for the upgrade or a swap through my dealer.  I am waiting for someone here to relate the difference in SQ between the two which will hopefully be an improvement.

Yeah, my dealer reached to me but doesn’t have much details beyond what has been published. While I’m sure it’s going to be an improvement, I’m hesitant to just spend $3,500 without anyone having heard an upgraded unit. 

@spenav 

I'm curious...

Why have you decided to sell yours?

What about it do you feel is lacking?

What are you moving on to?

Best wishes,

Don

I’m no 1 in the queue for the ma3i upgrade. I’ll take the plunge. If folks are interested I’ll report my findings but it won’t be a side by side comparison. Folks on WBT have who have upgraded their EMM DA2 dacs to i status are impressed. They have reported better sense of space, more dynamic, and lower nose floor.

@no_regrets 

If I were to be honest, I would say upgraditis. I went to an MSB Premier. I could live with either one. I haven’t listed my MA3 yet. I probably will this week. Thanks. 

@paullb  Thank you for the reply.

It can be nice to switch things up a bit...

I was just curious as to what you thought the MA3 was lacking in or what you were hoping to gain by switching to the MSB Premier.

Best wishes,

Don

I got the DA2i upgrade and it is extremely impressive. Seems to remedy the DA2's weak spots and creates a transparent sound without artifacts, or really lacking anything in terms of space, imaging, resolution, texture, presence, punch, dynamics etc.

I would hope the MA3i is comparable, though I know the power supply is different and that is one of the biggest elements of the upgrade. 

@no_regrets 

I think the Premier is a little more resolving than the MA3 and also more dynamic. That’s probably what is being addressed in the update. If I knew about the update at the time, I probably would not have purchased the Premier. However, the Premier can easily be someone last DAC purchase. It’s a solid presentation that leaves nothing to be desired. That has nothing to do with price since I felt the same way about the LUMIN X1. I couldn’t keep it however because I needed a USB DAC. Happy listening. 

@spenav Thank you for your reply. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!

Best wishes to you,

Don

This is what I have learned about the MA3i upgrade after speaking to Meitner. The improvements are based upon learnings as they developed their other product lines. I have not heard an upgraded unit so realize this is coming from the manufacturer.

Whats changed:

- Completely new analog stage

- New input stage, improved USB

- New network streaming protocol

- A few small tweaks to the FPGA

Impact of these changes:

- Increased bandwidth and lower distortion

- Better low end slam

- More visceral impact

Overall the changes do not fundamentally alter what we like about the MA3. However customers who have upgraded have provided overwhelming positive feedback. 

Personally I have a lot of trust in EMM/Meitner engineering so I am going to take the plunge with the upgrade. 

I got my upgraded MA3i last Friday and let it burn in for 96 hours, which is what the dealer recommended.  By the way, Rick Brown of Hi-Fi One handled the upgrade and he was great.  He took care of everything, kept me up to date, and coordinated with the factory to keep the turnaround time short.  Great service.

I’m very pleased I upgraded.  The noise floor is lower.  I can hear quiet passages, such as during a Mahler symphony, more clearly.  Micro dynamics are better.  It’s easier to hear subtle slight changes in volume.  Tone and timbre is better.  Instruments sound more like the real thing.  Horns have more brass, nylon strings more nylon, etc.

I can’t hear any downside to these improvements.  The new i doesn’t sound brighter, hi-fi, or analytical.  It’s still smooth.  There’s less fatigue because the music is more intelligible.  I noticed and categorized the improvements over the first few days, now I don’t focus on them much.  If you like the character of the original MA3 and want it to sound a bit closer to the real thing, I highly recommend it.

I replaced my MA3 with the new MA3i. The difference is huge. Gone is the softness associated with the old unit. New 7nit is a lot quieter, more dynamic and more nuanced. You can really hear into the music. Same wide and deep soundstage. I  believe this to be a really worthwhile upgrade. 

I also had my unit upgraded to the MA3i version.  I concur with all of the positive comments above, a very worthwhile upgrade.  Improvements in my ability to locate instruments in space, hear the reverb decay, improvements in ability to detect the depth of an instrument.   Better slam and attack.     A great upgrade!

One more strong recommendation for the upgrade.  Low level detail has increased noticeably, the periphery of the sound stage has become more 'filled in', overall more presence for instruments and voices.  Also, the entire presentation has become more open and spacious.  A major improvement across the board.

I am very intrigued by the upgraded M3Ai. I am currently using the 1 bit NDSD conversion path in a Bricasti M3 and overall really like the soundstage, dynamics, ease and leading edges. The Bricasti also has a very low background. Still, I know there likely better sounding DACs available and would be interested in further improving on resolution and the spatial presentation of music. 

I know the M3Ai hasn't been it very long, but can anyone provide comparisons to the sound of Bricasti DACs? I passed on the MA3i initially when I read that it was maybe a little polite and soft. Sounds like that has been remedied. Would also be nice to support our Canadian friends at this time.

Lot's of options around $11.5k though, so I would also be interested in M3Ai comparisons to the Tambaqui, Playback Designs MPD-6, dCS Bartok or Lina DACs.

@paullb @gnobber @oneprof @genesis168  - how are you guys using the MA3i? As DAC/Streamer/PRE or just DAC or DAC/Streamer.

I use it as a pre also.  I had a PS audio BHK pre, but found it sounded better by eliminating the outboard pre.

I use it as a dac/streamer.

@gnobber ah that's great to hear. is it also your streamer using Roon or something?

@genesis168 what pre are you using?

My streamer is an Innuous Zenith Mk3. I have it in Roon mode.

I use it with a Ypsilon Phaethon integrated amp

I use it as a streamer/pre/dac into a pair of AGD Duets. By the way, some folks at What’s Best report that the streamer is very good and was also upgraded as part of the i package. 

The upgrade means exchange to a new unit or just parts upgrade?

It requires a return authorization from Meitner and shipment back to the factory. As previously noted, it’s a comprehensive parts upgrade:

"Next generation 16xDSD MDAC2™ DAC paired with the updated MDAT2™ DSP
Latest generation VControl™ volume system from the EMM Labs DV2i
Supports DSD128/2xDSD, DXD, and MQA®
New advanced network streamer for seamless music streaming integration."

The new streamer now supports DSD 128. I am about to ship mine to Meitner for the upgrade. Do those who have had the upgrade performed have any new impressions to share?

No new impressions. Still very pleased with the upgrade

Paullb, thanks for your reply.  Mine is heading to Canada tomorrow.  I will share my thoughts once I have it back in my system.

Safe travels for your dac. Please let me know what you think. Don’t be put off by my lack of additional info. I think the new unit is noticeably better and a bargain. I’ve never been one to think the sound of components changes significantly over a long time. Been doing this a while and I know what I like sonically and can tell within a few days at most if I like a new component or set up. 

I'm currently using an Auralic Aries S1 streamer to Laiv Harmony R2r dac to Holo Serene KTE pre onward. Really love the preamp, but have been thinking of going to an integrated dac/streamer. Was looking at Lumin X1 and now looking into the Meitner MA3i. Any insights or thoughts on what I could expect from a performance perspective? I've enjoyed R2R dacs the past few years but like the idea of fewer boxes and from what I've read the MA3i seems very similar to the EMM Labs DA2i, which would make it a killer bargain. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

MA3i back in my possession now for a week. Right out of the box, I was hit over the head with  everything everyone has commented about in this post. However, I will say that after over 100 hours on the upgrade, to these ears, I notice little change from the first day. YMMV. I had to call Meitner about a $425 bill I received from FedEx yesterday ( for another discussion another day), and spoke to a tech about my listening observations. He confirmed my observation as he said most of the upgrade is done on the analog boards and that they spend about 3 days on the test bench so that each upgrade has quite a few hours on them prior to being shipped out. Currently, I’m using it as a DAC only. BTW, the volume by pass mode has been eliminated so “100” is considered “bypass”. I’ll soon try the MA3i as a pre on a Decware amp and a SS Sim amp. Now, do I need to upgrade the usb cable from the DH Silversonic? 

Well, I am in audio bliss.  Yesterday I received my updated MA3i. I streamed music through it overnight to help break it in and I am now doing some listening. It sounds fantastic!  This is consistent with other responses but I will be more specific about what my trusty ears tell me   Before I form any long-term conclusions I’ll need to spend some more time with it, but my immediate impressions are: 

• Music is presented in a tonally neutral / uncolored manner, but the sound is buttery smooth, smoother than the MA3. Voices and instruments are presented in a more 3D and lifelike manner. I feel more of a reach out and touch the musicians experience.
• The soundstage is deeper and wider, with instruments and voices more clearly layered and resolved within the soundstage and with greater focus.
• The top end is more extended, but without brightness. There is more "air" around notes in the upper treble.
• There is more detail in recordings being uncovered. I am hearing background instruments and other information with greater clarity. On recordings I have listened to hundreds of times I found myself saying I don’t recall hearing that before, or with such clarity. 
• The bass is more extended and more articulate, and notes are reproduced with better clarity. Resonance attributable to strings being plucked and the related harmonics, are much more apparent.
• The mid-bass and lower mid-range regions are more present, and add greatly to the more 3D sense of the musicians being in front of me.
• The mid-bass has more punch, but still sounds natural. Percussion instruments are more dynamic.

Ed has really worked some magic with this new iteration of his DAC.  And the revised streamer sounds great.  It now processes up to DSD128, and I seriously question whether spending more $ on a separate streamer will enhance my experience.

I just received my upgraded MA3 to MA3i. Goosebumps! If you were on the fence all I can say is do it. The improvement is immediate. Won’t repeat what everyone else has said other than it’s all true. 

After extended listening I can confirm that my initial findings (stated above) are accurate.  The MA3i is an outstanding streamer/DAC!

For the MA3i owners there is a firmware update that you can apply via the MControlHD app. Not sure what it addresses but it’s version 4.4.58. In the past these addressed compatibility issues with various streaming providers.

Following up on ayang90's post, Meitner informed me that this firmware update mainly addresses "how the MConnect app interacts with latest updates to Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify."  

More from Meitner:

"You can use either the MConnect Control app or the MConnect ControlHD app (meant for tablets) to update your MA3i streamer firmware.  It should be automatic and is applied OTA (via the network) when using MConnect Control app. 

1. Select “Play To” and choose the MA3i

2. Once MA3i is selected select the “Player” button to go back to the main screen

3. Select the “cog wheel” (settings) on the top left corner of the MConnect app and select “Device Setup” from the drop down list

4. Select MA3i

5. Once this is done the app will automatically go out to our servers and look for any firmware updates.

6. Latest firmware (look down the list to “F/W”) after you update should be “….v4.4.58”

I compared the latest versions of MConnect and JPLAY. No comparison. JPLAY is better.