McIntosh Guy Going Tubes? (Maybe?)

The thing with the mc275 is you can listen to it at normal listening levels without any desire to crank it.  All the music is right there even at lower levels. great bass and lower mids, just a music lovers amp

I did exactly what you did and love it. The current 275 amps are smooth at all sound levels. I am using xr5 speakers and looking for another set to stack them for the size of my room.  System looks sharp, equipment is a good value play right now. Even if you don’t like it, it can be flipped quickly.  

@kalali - Actually, it was very surprising.  My room is fairly large (14' by 20' in the immediate area, and open to about 40' in the off axis in an open floor plan.  Listening position is about 12 feet from the speakers.  The room is fairly lively with hard wood floors, though tempered with an area rug in front of the speakers, plus cloth covered furniture and a couple of drapes next to the windows.  My listening ranged from both small and large jazz bands, as well as rock and symphonic works.  I was very concerned in my evaluation that all my very wide listening tastes were represented.

I truly was surprised at how well the SET amp handled everything.  As I said, bass was not quite as tight as with the solid state amp, but I only felt it was lacking in direct comparison.  I also played pretty loud (for me, anyway), registering an average of about 85 db at the listening position using an SPL meter.

I don't have a great deal of knowledge about electrical engineering, but after doing some searching with google it MAY be that judging speaker and amp match by looking at wattage might not be the whole story and that current delivery plays a significant role in matching.

Again, though, this is my experience, with my room and equipment, my taste in volume levels, and of course, my ears.  I'm just suggesting that the OP shouldn't write off a lower power tube amp, particularly with the Sabrinas, without direct evaluation.

I don't have any experience with the Sabrinas nor with the specific components mentioned in the previous post but my takeaway from hearing difficult speakers driven with low powered SET amps/integrateds is the outcome depends on the musical content, loudness of the music and the size/shape of the listening room. Vocals, solo instrumentals, and small ensembles sound magnificent at moderate listening levels particularly in a near field arrangement. Complex content with a lot of musical transients, including lower octaves, sounded strained and wooly at higher listening levels. In the ideal world, one would've separate systems for different types/genres of content but that is not always possible. On paper, I would have expected putting a Ref6 in front of a Master Classic2 would be the best of both worlds.

I've never had McIntosh gear, but I also have the Wilson Sabrinas and thought I'd put in my experience.

Currently, I'm driving them with an ARC Ref6 preamp and D'Agostino Master Classic stereo amp.  This combination sounds fantastic and very musical.

HOWEVER: I recently got a Cary CAD300SEI integrated amp for my office setup (SET 300B tube based and 15 Watts per channel).

Had some of my friends over to hear it, so I brought the Cary and the Omega single driver speakers from my office to my main setup.  On a lark, plugged in the Sabrinas and was amazed how well this amp handled the Sabrinas' difficult load (87 db sensitivity, 4 Ohm nominal load with a dip to 2.53 Ohms).  Besides being able to drive them to a satisfying volume level, the midrange just came alive.  Bass was not quite as controlled as with the D'Agostino, but still quite satisfying.  The Cary is in for some upgrades to the capacitors and recitifiers, as well as adding a left and right pre-out for my JL Fathom subwoofer, and my plan is to use the Cary and sell on the ARC and D'Agostino.

My point is that you shouldn't get too wrapped up in the watts a tube amp is rated for - I suspect my satisfaction with the Cary is more due to current delivery than the watts it produces - but that you should get in some different types of amps in for a home audition if you can and see what floats your boat with your Sabrinas.

I have to be a heretic here. I've had an ocean of Mc30, 60, 75, 225, 240, 275, and while I loved the look, I was never all that impressed by the sound. On the other hand, I found the rather humble and neglected MA230 to sound better than all of them. Honestly, prices for all those, including the 230 have gone up but generally you can get back about what you spend should you decide to sell. As the risk is low that way, play about!

You can always trade up to the C1100 (McIntosh have good resale value). I believe the C2600 is warmer and the C1100 is more resolving or SS leaning. For pure performance the C1100 will be better but the C2600 is already a great choice.

I’m sure the C1100 is a step up from the C2600. 
C1100/MC601 combination would be awesome. I’m jealous.

I ran a C45 with a single MC275 and with Mono 601's. In my opinion the 601's were very close to the sound signature of the MC275, with more depth in the lower frequencies. The 275 placed the vocal/singer a step in front of the "band" and the 601's makes the singer/vocals take a step back. I love the power and ease the 601's drive my speakers. I love how the MC275 looks. I ended up selling the MC275. I'd love to try a C2500/C2600 in my system, but I tried the C2200 before and found I preferred an SS preamp. I say - keep the 601's and try the 2600 or 1100. Let us know how it goes!

bradlye, if you do a Google search on the C1100, you'll find a larger discussion on another forum.  Feel free to PM me if you would like more of my personal impressions.

Thanks to everyone for their great input!  I think step 1 is going to be the tube preamp only addition.  Then maybe try tube amps (monos) later. Everything made sense, was cool and my mind was made up, until the recommendation to audition the C1100 was thrown in the mix. That screed-the-pooch. Now I’m trying to sort out C2600 vs. C1100.  Any new or additional thoughts from all of you on this caveat?

 I guess that’s what drives us and our great hobby.  “THE QUEST!”

You will miss your 601s if you part with them. You have been warned!

McIntosh SS gear sounds warm, you sure you want to go warmer? If you go to tube amps, you are giving up a lot now and in the future. The tube amps you are looking at are not as powerful as your current amps. The 275’s might be fine with your current speakers but what happens down the line you get a set of inefficient speakers, you will miss your powerful SS amps. Another plus for SS amps is that you get better bass, more solid tighter bass. A good idea could be to team up a tube preamp with your SS amp. Just IMO!

Not sure if the MC30s have enough horsepower , but obviously nobody posting here has heard them . I could be wrong, But anyone who has heard them should understand . They sound much better than any of the other candidates mentioned especially the MC275 Go check out he Steve Hoffman forums
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/
or Jeff days forums at Jeff's Place 
http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/

I had an MC275 VI with a C1100 and found the match really wonderful.  The C1100 is dead quiet and cast a wonderful soundstage.  If you have the budget, don't need the built-in DAC and have space for a two box setup, I highly recommend an audition. 

tlong1958,
One of my audio buddies swapped out his MC452 for one MC275 and found (for him) it didn't have enough "horsepower".  He purchased a second MC275, running them each as a "monoblock" and that put a smile on his face.  Being retired and using his system several hours per day, he's now complaining about the cost of replacing tubes on the MC275s.  One thing to think about, when going to a tube power amp.

If I were going to go to tubes I would trade in my MC452 and get the MC275. I doubt I will any time soon, because I like my 452. I’ve had tubes before (ARC) and they are great, but solid state tends to be more reliable and I like that. If you can, borrow a 275 from a Mac dealer and try it. It will sound different, and only you can decide if it floats your boat. Generally speaking, the tube amp will probably have a smoother top end and warmer, more refined midrange. Probably not as much bass, and won’t play as loud. Kinda depends on your speakers, I’m not familiar with yours. I would rather have your 601s, but that’s just me.

I could not accommodate a pair of MC601's so I'm running an MC452.  I believe both amps have "the best of both worlds", the "warm" sound that usually goes with tube amps, but the "speed" of solid state.

The only problem I can see with going to a C2600 with Gold Lions might be the stress on your facial muscles...controlling the "jaw dropping" response when that preamp breaks in!

So, There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that the first step should be a tube preamp (I’m proposing the C2600,  I still drink the Kool-Aid every day. Sorry… ), role tubes and keep my present MC601s. What difference do you think I would experience going to the tube amplifiers later? 

If you want something a bit more musical or lush - Try 1 NOS RCA Long Black Plate 12AX7 from 1950’s in the input of the line stage on a C2500 or C2600. I agree on the Gold Lions for the phono (nice detail and probably as good as NOS telefunken ECC83) but I found the McIntosh stock 12AT7 on the output of the line stage to be the most musical - so I kept that (it is a Czech tube from JJ). I tried NOS Mullard but they are too dark for my taste.

The point is that with a bit of effort and not a huge expense you can tailor the sound to what works for you and your system. McIntosh may not be the last word in resolution but they know a thing or two about making an amp sound sublime.

I am in agreement with the others. I have a C2500 with the Gold Lion tubes in the line stage and a MC152 solid state amp=Heaven. 

I put those same tubes in my C2500. Nice improvement 

I agree with tlong1958,
I have a C2500 with Genalex Gold Lion tubes and an MC452 and would not change.  I used to enjoy a C50 and when I received the C2500, there was a small, but noticeable change in the "musicality", especially voices and acoustic instruments; when I swapped out the stock tubes for the Genalex, those qualities improved even more.
The MC601's are such great amplifiers!  I personally would not change those out.

I agree with ^
Keep the 601s and get the C2600.
I have the C2500 with an MC 452 and the MEN 220. Very happy with this combination 

C2600 preamp with a good quality SS power amp is the way to go, IMHO. You can roll tubes taste...

MC30s .... Particulary ones restored by Yves Beauvais at Vintage Vacuum Audio have a much better sound than any of the other McIntosh Tube Amps IMO. You would need to have fairly efficient speakers .. like 92db-98db.
i am currently using a pair of MC30s with MX151 pre/pro (has men220 or Lyngdorf Room Correction built in ).
I am using Purist Audio Cables Dominus (Fluid ) Interconnect and Domius (Fluid) Power Cables. Purist Audio HDMI into the MX151 from my sources (OPPO-203,JRiver Media Center PC, Roku Ultra into the OPPO) Speaker cables are the Starsound Sonoran Desert Plateau.
Speakers are Tekton Double Impact (96db).
I have never in my lifetime had better sound !
I am finished wanting to change any component in the System.
We all know that most of us audio types are NEVER completely satisfied.
I AM COMPLETELY SATISFIED
My past amps have been :
Rogue Audio ST-100
McIntosh Mc2205
McIntosh MC2255
McIntosh Mc240
McIntosh MC225
McIntosh Mc275
Aric Audio Transcend Push/Pull
Emotiva XPA-1
Nad 218THX
This is just my opinion of course .

MC275 old or new, either, old school if you can get them, I believe the output transformers could have been better.
To me the best and only good Mac, especially on Quad 57 ESL’s. The s/s stuff, for glitz queens.

Cheers George