VPI Prime as the backup? Not bad.
I always struggled to hear an audible difference with the peripheral clamp. Maybe if one is using terribly warped records in the first place? The simple screw down clamp/rubber washer seems to do a pretty good job of making sure a record is flat as possible on my VPI. I wasn’t sold on the peripheral clamp thing, glad I didn’t open my wallet for that one.YMMV
I have the Mapleshade footers/maple slab under mine. Does it actually do the things in the website write up? Well, maybe not as much as reported. It's quite subtle, but it sure makes the table look sharp. I think the lateral give in my $150 Sanus, along with the low tech Mapleshade approach actually does some isolation. I can jump up and down in front of the table without audible/visible harm. YMMV |
The Stillpoints LP isolator was a nice tweak for me and helped eliminate vibrations of the vinyl. The result is a slightly smoother more well defined sound with significantly less "tizziness" in the high end that I did not realize was there until it was eliminated.
Not a vacuum hold down---but a nice move in that direction. |
Why the Waynes periphery clamp? Cost? As you say, it looks a pain to use. I’d bought the VPI as it’s made to work well with their tts.
Avoid screw down spindle clamps! Why does one want to reconnect with the tts’ bearing? Bad idea! I made the right move and invested in an ORB Record Flattener instead of a periphery ring.
I concur with the Stillpoints LP-1
I recommend MyMat. PM me. |
Couldn't find any links to MyMat
Why the choice for Waynes Audio? It seems to have enough mass to couple the outer portion of a record to a platter. The centering disc looks to work well. The price is reasonable.
The point of this exercise is to get as much of an improvement as possible within reasonable cost parameters.
Cheers
Mister Pig
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Get a couple Synergistic Research PHT. Green Dream is very deep and liquid, Black Widow a little more dynamic and present, both just enough each way from neutral to make tuning fun. I've got one of each on my Koetsu, and a third Green Dream on the arm tube. Yes they allow incredible fine-tuning. Then also get a set of SR ECT, put them on the motor and arm, and experiment with different locations.
Being a secondary system then room acoustics maybe are out but if not SR HFT are very unobtrusive and crazy effective. |
I use a TTWeights periphery ring (together with an old center weight) much like the Wayne’s because my older VPI has a slightly smaller platter and the VPI ring doesn’t fit. Nevertheless I find it much easier and quicker to use than the screw clamp. It improves the sound in many ways including by adding flywheel to the platter. And it solves many warp issues.
You can also improve the performance by adding the VPI motor flywheel combo. The factory might even sell you the parts without the motor since you already have the motor. You can also add the VPI or other motor controller.
Better still, you can buy the motor, controller and RoadRunner from Sota. See the discussions on this at the VPI Forum. |
Mister pig, you'll use the periphery clamp two or three times then give up.
It is just too much of a PITA. It is much more important to have a solid platform under the table than any crazy feet. Your SOTA and SME tables are so stable because they hang from their suspensions, an inherently self stabilizing situation. Putting the suspension under is inherently unstable. Other than an upgraded cartridge and arm I really do not think you can do much other than waste money. The SOTA Eclipse package would be fun. Would it really improve the sound? I do not think $1000.00 worth. You might notice it if you had perfect pitch. I think you would be better off buying music.
If you swallow the acid Millercarbon is on you can get a bunch of those PHT things and really hallucinate. |
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mijostyn"If you swallow the acid Millercarbon is on you can get a bunch of those PHT things and really hallucinate."It is so sad that so many hear pollute they're minds, brains, and bodies with drugs that destroy they're ability to reason and think clearly! |
IME, in no particular order:
1. The VPI Periphery Ring (which is a lot heavier than the others out there) and HRX center weight. Noticed darker backgrounds when listening to quiet passages at high overall gain. Also provides more platter mass for rotational stability and flattens both concave and convex LPs so that the cart doesn't need to use its suspension as much.
2. Phoenix Roadrunner and Eagle. Self correcting stability is a wonderful thing.
3. HW40 feet. Better definition throughout, especially the bass (not that the VPI is lacking in any way).
4. Any type of isolation for your situation - wall mount, maple blocks, leadshot filled reservoir, etc.
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Chose to return the periphary ring. Unable to position it without off set, which of course puts unwanted force on the sides of the bearing. Back to step one.
Cheers
Mister Pig |
@neonknight If you use the centering disk it should go on perfectly. There should be no "offset." I do it every day with my TTW ring. Did you watch Wayne’s video?
@edwyun Phoenix Roadrunner and Eagle is unobtanium. No longer made. Those who have them are not selling. Only way to get similar performance is the buy the motor combo from Sota.
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Here is a list of the mods I have made to my Prime: - Eagle & Roadrunner - Very worthwhile if you can find them
- 2nd arm - it’s a mono/stereo thing
- Dual pivot mod for both arms
- 3 belts - audible difference
- CounterIntuitive - facilitates setup
- Stillpoints LP1 - best of several tried
- VPI Periphery Ring - worth the aggravation on warped records, but for someone with a vacuum table, forget about it
- Deer skin platter mat - fuzzy side up, sounds better
- Litz silver wire - brighter, shimmery sound
I have owned the prime for 3 years and with all those changes am still not totally happy with it. I prefer my SL1200GAE that sits right beside it. HW40 currently on order to replace it. |
I have a Superscoutmaster/rim drive/3D arm/2nd pivot,Classic Platter,BearPaws (large brass cones replacements for stock feet). Every one of those upgrades was a significant performance upgrade...each having their own way of improvement. If I had to pick which made the most significant improvement, I’d say BearPaws. I do use the VPI peripheral ring, VPI s/s weight (for years..never a problem)... Use the record directly on the platter...mats always had warts of their own.
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Bill, you should really try one of the SOTA tables with vacuum. It works great and dampens the record beautifully. I do not hear a difference with various mats but I do with vacuum. You get tape like rock solid consistency. We are rhythmic creatures. Tiny alterations in rhythm are noticeable like you get from records that are not perfectly flat. I do not think this is psychological as prof would say "expectation bias" I am pretty sure if I were to mount a mildly warped record and have someone turn the vacuum on and off I would be able to tell the difference reliably. I should run this experiment. It is like the difference between a so so drummer and Gavin Harrison or Dave Weckle. |
You have one amazing set-it-and-forget-it table in the Cosmos, and you’re trying to chase that performance with a much lower level, tweak-of-the-day VPI? I’m not sure why you decided to abuse yourself in this manner :(
Those 2 companies have polar opposite philosophies. Look at the SOTA Sapphire/Star/Nova, still produced from the 80s to today in the same basic design with material upgrades and refinements. Whereas VPI runs through countless lines, designs, Mk versions, tweaks, updates, etc. Imagine buying a Classic Direct for $30 K a few years ago, and then seeing the HW40 being touted as superior for only 15 K.
Perhaps consider get a refurbished Star/Nova if you really need that 2nd deck?
Also I have a ring clamp on my Clearaudio deck, and the only way these items make sense is if they are machined for your specific platter, so that they can go on quick & centered (the Clearaudio ring works like this, with a lexan adapter lip for the platter). If you have to fiddle with some centering device, or eyeball it, then you’ll probably hate it. The SOTA vacuum hold down is a joy to use. |
Well the ring clamp did not work out for a couple reasons. It will be going back. Will give the Symposium isolation base and foot inserts a try. |
@mulveling
I use the second table for casual listening. Hate to burn hours on the Proteus when I am doing dishes, playing chess on the computer, surfing the web, or doing other things in the house. Yes the Cosmos is awesome, I would just like to squeeze a bit more performance out of this table, especially with this arm and cartridge package. |
@neonknight
"Couldn't find any links to MyMat"...
It's my product. PM me for information. I believe you'll be pleased with the results.
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Placed my order for the Symposium Audio Segue Iso platform and for the Prime feet inserts. We will see how this works out, and how long the back log is. Last week I removed the Ortofon A90 from it and installed the ZYX 4D and got the overall presentation closer to what the Cosmos and Transfiguration Audio sounds like. Not as resolving, not as focused, but closer to overall sound, which is nice to have from my casual table. If I can improve the overall clarity and focus, that would be great for me, as it would then be a viable second option for those casual listening times. |
When I had my Prime the only way I could get feedback from getting through was with the Symposium shelf. The Prime was the only table I had issues with isolation with in the same spot I had other tables. Should of sold you my shelf since I dont need it with my Feickert LOL |
I know I'm late to the party, but I recently did a secondary tonearm installation on my Prime. Although a decent tonearm I have always felt I could get better sound from another tonearm. I chose to go with a Jelco 850M and a Hana ML cart just to test the waters. It actually blew the 3D printed tonearm out the water. My table also looks pretty cool with both tonearms.
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Yes the 3d arm is one of the worst arms to dial in not to mention you need the counterintuitive and the second pivot its like it wasn't thought out entirely.
The 850M is awesome I have in the rear spot on my Dr Feickert Blackbird.
Great choice now to replace the 3d one! |
"It actually blew the 3D printed tonearm out the water."
Good to read a thread resurrect with substance.
Interesting. Sonic improvement being subjective, I've noticed more threads for anything but the 3D arm lately.
Wasn't too long ago the 3D was being praised as a huge improvement over the standard arm.
I won't let that stop me looking at the attractive deals on used Primes to replace my Classic, which is getting long in the tooth. |
if your Sota is your better table, why would the prime get more use? I would think it would be the other way around....
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I have a Prime table with standard 3D 10" printed tonearm. Have the following upgrades: symposium Suege Ultra Platform and Symposium footer inserts, VPI Clamp, VPI Signature clamp, VPI ADS, Dynavector XV-1S Cartridge, Pass Labs xp-17 Phono Preamp and Nordost Frey2 phono cable. The rest of my system is comparable in quality.
I think the Prime TT is quite upgradeable and depending on cartridge you can really get a lot out of it. Even if you did not add some of the upgrades right away you still have increases in sound quality to do in the future. Definitely a reference quality TT in my opinion. Look for a great condition used or demo Prime.
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