Magnepans

If you have a tube amplifier and you need power to drive Magnepans, and you know how to do it, replace the output transformer of your tube amplifier with a headphone amp stepped down to about 800 Ohms, for SET the LL1930 is perfect for this. Connect the 800 Ohm secondary between the grid of an 833A triode and ground. The 833A works this way with zero grid bias. Connect one side of the tungsten cathode to ground too and heat the cathode with 10 Volts at 10 Amps well filtered DC. Run this at a modest 1000 Volts on the plate through a Hammond 1642SE transformer and use the 4 Ohm taps on the secondary for the Magnepans. That will be more than enough power and it will not strain. I tried it and it and it is the best
i ever heard.

If it’s accuracy you are looking for in a speaker and you have the room and open space for planars’, the Peter Gunn modified Magnepan MMGi’s are the most accurate speaker I’ve ever heard and they are also the only speaker I’ve ever listen to with zero audible distortion. The only speaker that has come close IMO is the Vandersteen model 7. This opinion is coming from 40 years of dealing with hi end audio equipment and owning over 25 pairs of high end speakers including six name brand horn speakers. These speakers are less than $3,000 and trump other speakers costing $50,000 and up.  One of his customers sold his pair of Wilson's after buying the modified Magnepan's.  

Check out his website and see what he does to the speakers. I just bought a pair and they are like fine pieces of furniture. However, your amp won’t drive them, you need at least 250 watts a side to make them sing. They take forever to get and the waiting list is a mile long but it’s worth it. Also, looks can be deceiving the bass coming from these speakers are unreal.

I do - only issue is the huge size and all-black ominous look to them

(at least they don't look like an alien predator about to eat me - like Wilsons)

Nice congrats on the 3.7i's. I'm sure you'll love them! 

The AHB2 is definitely on my own amp list.  For MMGs you should not need an amp that powerful; you do need a fairly large ability to deliver current into a straight 4 ohm load

BTW, re cables - maggies are not a complex impedance load, no need for any fancy cable to change the sound

as an update to some posts above, I found and bought a used pair of 3.7i's and saved $2,000 - currently using a Sunfire to drive them

Nobel 100 thanks - the AHB2 has some very interesting topography (class H rails) but next to zero distortion based on their innovative feed forward error correction. Worth a serious look for high performing relatively low cost amps.

Gmosley - I did many years of research before buying Maggies and read about delamination issues which were caused primarily by age, improper storage, overdriving a small speaker or combination of the above. In most cases the owner was able to fix the problems with a kit from Magnepan to re-glue the wire to the Mylar and that it was a relatively easy fix. Also for as many Magnepans that have been sold the issue rarely comes up in any forum which means there must be an extremely low failure rate. I wouldn’t worry about it at all. . .

- Steve

it happens sometimes; dunno how often (i.e. what % of units)

pricing should reflect a risk factor for that and consequent repairs

you could call the factory and ask Wendell how often it happens and if it is related to being near the ocean, in the sun, etc. AND if they can estimate a repair cost

Hi Guys, I need some advice, i am talking to a guy who has some mmg's for sale. they look very good and i have heard them. but my only concern is that someone told me that they have a issue with the adhesive and in due time they will rattle, does anyone know of this issue with them,i don't want to soak money into a pair of soon to be rattling speakers, also is there any way you can tell the year they where made? other then calling magnepan. Thank's

hifidream,

     Congrats on choosing to drive your 20.1 Magnepans utilizing 2 class D Benchmark AHB2 amps (one for highs and one for lows with an active crossover). What a great combination!

     Excellent speakers driven by excellent amps, no wonder you and your father are so pleased with the results. It seems like you  have become, as I have, a very pleased user of class D amps driving Magnepans.  

     Class D amps driving Magnepans, and likely many other speakers that require substantial power for best results, are such a good match that I'd suggest that anyone looking for new amplification should audition a good class D amp before purchasing anything else.

Enjoy,
 Tim     

Randy, as I suggested its a matter of how far one wants to take things.  As you point out, the caps in the 3.7 (Solen) are of higher quality than in previous versions, but there are several other brands that are better sounding than Solens.  By way of example: I used Solen with Wondercap bypasses and Cardas hookup wire when I upgraded my Maggies years ago.  A friend used MIT caps and Siltech silver wire in his Maggies (same model).  The improvement in the sound of mine was terrific; but his sounded considerably better than mine.  That was years ago and those caps, while still good sounding caps, are generally not even in the running for best sounding caps around; especially for the crucial tweeter and mid sections. .  I am not aware of changes in the quality of the xover components that could not be improved on.  This speaker is a tweaker's delight.  Removal of the sock is a worthwhile improvement if one can deal with the aesthetics.  Hardwiring the jumper cables and getting rid of all those steel connectors is another very worthwhile improvement.  Bypassing the mid fuse is another.  My daring friend bypassed both the mid and tweeter fuses (NOT RECOMMENDED!).  While it may seem like lunacy and overkill every step was an audible improvement.  Lots of info available on line on Maggie mods. 

frogman - do your upgrade comments apply to the newer speakers with upgraded stock crossovers?

e.g. 3.7's etc.

the_nature_boy,  I strongly disagree that you have to have high powered ss to drive Maggies well; personal opinion based on many years of owning MG3A's with a variety of ss and tube amps.  I would suggest that you first try your VAC before changing anything else; you may find that 60 quality tube watts is more than enough for your listening habits and room.  For some recent commentary on this topic:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-cheap-amps-for-magneplanar-speakers?page=2

re mods:

****Unless it's something that was gonna push this speaker to a significantly superior level. ****

Personally, I would not worry about mods before getting a handle on what the stock speaker is capable of.  Having said that, and depending on how far you want to take things, it is most definitely possible to push Maggies to a significantly superior level.  I (and many others) took my Maggies to a level that was well beyond what the stock speaker was capable of.  Good stands for greater rigidity are great; but, in my experience, upgrading the xover components and the internal wiring (and jumpers) can yield amazing results.  Many possibilities in that dept.  If we acknowledge that good interconnects and speaker cables make an important difference, imagine what replacing the 6'+ piece of decent but basic wire that connects the top of that very revealing ribbon tweeter to the internal section of the xover at the base of the speaker with something of really good quality can do; and that's just the beginning of what's possible.  Quality caps and coils are even more crucial.  If you are not familiar with this site, poke around a bit in the "Tweaks" page:

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/

Good luck; fantastic speakers that are great as is and benefit greatly from intelligent mods.

Hi natureboy,

     I understand your reservations about committing to a budget but I think you'll be glad you did since members can now offer more specific options knowing they'll be financially acceptable to you.

    I'm going to start with some general advice rather than specific options:

Speakers ($1,500-2000 budget):
      Before you decide on a specific Magnepan speaker model, I think you should do some homework by listening to them in person.  Hopefully, there's a Magnepan dealer within a reasonable driving distance from your home.  Magnepan's website offers a dealer locator tool to assist you at www,magnepan.com

     You should at least be able to audition and compare the 1.7, 1.7i, 3.7 and 3.7i.  Listening to the 2.5R may not be possible unless there's a seller of a used pair near you.  
    In 2004, I was in a similar situation.  My aging Magnepan IIBs were starting to de-laminate and I was looking to update.  I auditioned the 1.6QR($1,700/pr. then) at a local dealer and was trying to decide between these and a used pair of 2.7QR ($2,200 new in 1994 but seller asking for $1,200 used in 2004) from a seller about 250 miles away.  I liked the 1.6 but thought they were a bit bright in the treble (possibly not completely broken in yet) and weak in the bass.  I bought the 2.7qr for $1,000 without even hearing them based on owners' reports that the treble was smoother and sweeter than the 1.6 and the fact the 2.7 were 3-ways and had a large panel section.devoted exclusively to bass frequencies. I really wanted the 3.6R but they were way outside my budget at that time.  In retrospect, I made the right choice but know I took a big risk and was a bit fortunate, too.

     I think you 're likely to prefer the 3.7 or 3.7i to the 1.7 and 1.7i and will need to decide if the difference is worth the difference in price. From what I've read from owners and professional reviewers. however, the 1.7i is extremely good and may offer the most value for the price and be the biggest bargain.  You need to decide for yourself and you could always plan an upgrade to the 3.7or 3.7i at a future time.

Amps ($1,00-2,000 budget):
     The most important thing you need to determine is whether your VAC Avatar tubed integrated can properly drive Magnepans.  I believe the only meaningful method for doing this is trying it and for you to judge for yourself.  

     I don't have any experience with tube amps driving Magnepans so I cannot give you much assistance but others who do have basically stated "maybe" and that more wattage may be required.  
     However, I do have substantial experience driving Magnepans with solid state amps of various types and various wattages.  My advice is that high current amps (those that double their wattage going from 8 ohm to 4 ohm speaker loads) perform very well on Magnepans whether they're class A, A/B or D and that performance improves progressively as wattage increases.
      The most impressive improvement I experienced on my Magnepans (2.7qr that are 87db efficient) was moving from a 400 watt/ch class A/B amp to 1,200 watt/ch class D mono-blocks. It resulted in attaining the best performance from my speakers I've heard thus far, especially in the bass, an effortless presentation overall  and an obvious increase in dynamic range.

     Another  option would be to use your VAC Avatar as a tube pre-amp and pair it with a high current, or at least higher wattage, tube, class A, A/B or D amp of your choice.   Or sell the Avatar and do the same with a tube pre-amp of your choice. I am very confident that this option will work no matter which Magnepan you decide to purchase.  Based on my experience, I would strongly recommend a powerful class D amp would work best. 

Speaker Mods ($500 budget):

       If you wind up buying the 2.5R, 1.7i or 3.7i, the only mod I can even think of be Sound Anchor or Myestands for them to help make them more rigid.  However, I view these as refinements that are not initially required and can be added later if at all.


Tim    

     
 

PS
To be more specific:

Current speaker budget ($1500-2000) 
Speaker Mod Budget: ($500ish) 
AMP budget (about the same as speakers)
Apologies if i seemed a bit dodgy on the budget question, but my budget is somewhat fluid and i did not want to pin myself down to a specific parameter. If I find a setup that's $10,000 (amps and speakers) that's above the budget I just listed, but if it's something that completely is gonna blow me away I could consider going for it. Plus there could be people looking at this thread that are willing to go into the $20k and $40k range that could find the info useful as well. 
So . .. any recommended mods? Fuse bypass seems to be very highly touted in the Maggie circles :) 

I think he meant $500 on top of the cost of the speakers, if that's the case then I'd recommend either Mye stands or sound anchor stands and good jumper cables.

Hey Guys!
Sorry i haven't posted in a bit . . . holiday shopping and all, you know how it is. A lot of great info!
Budget-wise, I'd say about $500 tops in speaker mods. Unless it's something that was gonna push this speaker to a significantly superior level. 
As for speaker wire, from what I've read here I might just go with what I already have and then try other stuff if I feel the setup needs it

Just for reference amp and set up recommendation: I've just gotten my Mini DSP active crossover set up balanced into two Benchmark AHB2 amps (3k new) fed directly (bare wire) into my 20.1 Maggies. One amp for the highs and one for the lows. It's the best sound I've heard period driving Maggies. I haven't had time to do room correction or set up the subs yet but my friends and family are already blown away. The Benchmark Amps are dead quiet  THD+noise is an extremely low 0.0005%. and have oodles of power conservatively rated 100wpc at 8ohms doubling down all the way to 2ohms. Part of the reason I haven't gotten everything set up is that it sounds so good that I've been enjoying it. The bass makes the walls creak like a good roll of thunder does and the sound is so true to life with the maggies my dad and I were baffled. He's played concert piano for 30 years and I played in an orchestra as a youth. Best part is these are tiny amps, run warm to the touch even at concert levels, they are truley remarkable. 

Love this hobby! 

stewart10722,

     Good point about this thread being useful for future browsers deciding on tube vs. ss for magnepans.  

     I think this thread faded out due to the OP not staying involved and drifting away.
     A bit frustrating but no big deal.
Later,
  Tim

Yes, no budgets ever shared......but based on him originally looking at a pair of 2.5s and nothing else, I would suppose his original budget was no more than a 2 or 3 hundred.......now.....who knows....noone's talkin....


The thread primarily serves future browsers as a discussion of tube vs ss for magnepan.....

     jhills,
     Very good useful info on your Rogue Cronus Magnum II tube integrated working so well on your 1.7s. It would probably drive the 1.7is equally well.  
    The issue becomes whether natureboy's budget is sufficient to cover the cost for the 1.7i speakers($2,000/pr.)  and Rogue Cronus Magnum 2 integrated 100 watt tube amp ($2,500) for a total of $4,500.  I find it strange and perplexing that he has demonstrated such a reluctance to reveal any budgetary info and which Magnepans (2.5R, 1.7, 1.7i, 3.7 or 3.7i) he's currently  leaning towards.  This is all required info that needs to be considered prior to any of us offering much meaningful advise to him. 
    
     With a total lack of even a rough approximation of  budgetarynumbers  coming forth from the natureboy,  I doubt we can offer him much useful advise.

      I've decided to match my level of concern to his,
                                Tim

Maybe a bit late to chime in but for what it's worth - as I do currently have a pair of Maggie 1.7s and am driving with a Rouge Cronus Mag. II integrated tube amp rated at 100W pr. channel. My listening are is about 375 Sq. ft. The 100W Rouge does a very nice job driving the 1.7s at any volume I care to listen to. The stage is very deep, wide and detailed. Not sure if 100W would be quite enough on the 3.7is but does a very nice job on the 1.7s. I think your 60W VAC would do a very nice job on the 2.5 or the 1.7 Maggies but may need more if you ever decided to go with the 3.7is.

natureboy,

     Can you give us a rough estimate of what you're willing to budget for:

1. Magnepans( 2.5R, 1.7i, 3.7 or 3.7i)

2. Speaker cables

3. Possible mods to speakers

     Just a range you're willing to pay for each is sufficient.

Thanks,
  Tim

OK, last follow-up, I promise :)
Anyone here very knowledgeable about Magnepan mods? I've been reading through a LOT of material out there and seen some people invest in upgraded crossover boxes (though not sure those are meant for all Maggie models?) and others invest in fuse bypass. 
Is there any mod that I absolutely should invest in? Any that really make a big difference in these speakers? Thanks!!! 

cables and their distortion are totally up to you to pick - I suggest very short runs of lamp cord using monoblocks - then blind test some spendy cables (which will produce a reactive load and sound different, maybe not better) - tone controls and EQ, particularly in the digital realm, are the correct ways to alter the sound

both the 3.7s and the 1.7i would be upgrades to the 2.5's 

I just got back from the dealer's place and I can tell you the 3.7i's are a lot better sounding than the 1.7's (and thus the 1.7i's) - I thought vocals were a lot closer than sharp transients like brushes.  Also the larger and taller 3.7's do a better job at being a line source.

at 3x the price they should sound better, eh?

While I could not do blind testing there, the difference was significant and it would be a whale of a placebo effect if it was a visual difference not an aural one.  

I'll do some more listening next week probably.  And there may be a pair of 1.5QRs on the market in the PNW in a month or two...

A lot of awesome amp and preamp info!  . . . any suggestions on speaker cables that might be well suited to Maggies? Or is that almost completely up to personal preference? 

I own MG1.7's and run them off a Prima Luna tube integrated which with KT150's has about 60 watts. The room size is 600 sq. feet. About the only time I have a power issue is with low bass, you do need more wattage for "growly" bass but  given the speakers bass roll off point I suspect its a better approach to buy a fast powered subwoofer and use a electronic crossover between pre and amp to feed the sub.  I'd suggest using a tube pre section but go solid state for the speaker  amp because its hard to make tube amps "fast" and deliver higher wattage.

I had Atmasphere M60's with Maggie 3.6's. They work fine, but I wouldn't recommend it, or tubes in general with Maggies. They don't need it, just get a good SS amp of some kind which will be an easier setup IMO. 

Hi.. I have Maggie 1.7s that I am driving very nicely with tubes..a Primaluna Dialouge Premium @ around 40wpc utilizing kt88s in the amp. This is the best my Maggie's have sounded. Previously, I used a vintage rebuilt100wpc HK 19 amp (solid state) then went tubes to a Cronus Magnum (100wpc) still searching I upgraded to the class D Rogue Pharaoh which was a major improvement in sound over all previous amps and still sounded like tubes with some nice black plates in 12au7 preamp inside (the Pharaoh was  185wpc) But the Primaluna is by far the best sounding, best detail and has the most slam...and it's the lowest wpc of the amps I've mated to the Maggie's. I'm guessing the Primaluna Dialouge HP would be even better.  My two cents:) good luck!

I'm curious as to what the least expensive amp to drive 3.7i would be...

natureboy,

stewart0722 stated:

" Whoever said that the 2.5 sounds better than a 1.7i needs to go hear the 1.7i (and he said he had not)......I have heard both of them (in the case of the 2.5 though, it was a quarter of a century ago!)"

     Focusing on what is the best solution for you, I think stewart made 2 good points in his last post and I want to add a 3rd point:

1.  I actually have not listened to the newish 1.7i Magnepans  and stewart may be correct that they perform better than the much older 2.5/R. They have also received extremely good reviews from owners and professional audio reviewers. The best approach is for you to demo them and decide for yourself. 
 
2.  He's also correct about the 2.5/R becoming 30 yrs old next year.  There have been issues with older Magnepans delaminating (the glue ages and the bond holding the magnets to the mylar panels weakens or fails.  I bought a used pair of IIB in the mid-1980s that this eventually happened to and they made a flapping sound when played too loudly.  You'd need to either demo the used 2.5/R carefully before purchasing or, worse case, be willing to send them to Magnepan for repairs.  Magnepan switched glue vendors around the mid 80s  and believe this mainly
remedied the issue but there are still a lot of their speakers out there that did, or may, delaminate.

3.  Magnepan has a special promotion on the 1.7i until 1/1/2017. Ever bought yourself a 'potential' $2,000 Xmas gift?  If you don't have a nearby Magnepan dealer, Magnepan will ship a pair to your house and give you 30 days to try them out.  If you  don't want to keep them, you can send them back for a full refund (with free shipping both ways) and they'll give you $100 just for trying them.  The link below lists the details:

http://www.magnepan.com/model_17

     My current thinking is that the 1.7i is probably your better solution since they're likely to perform better, will be brand new with a full 3 yr. warranty, are relatively inexpensive,
you get to choose the trim and cloth color that you like best, they look beautiful and are just a touch smaller than the 2.5/R ( the 2.5 are 22"W x 71"H x 2"D and the 1.7 are 19"W x 65"H x 2"D).

     The original 1.7 are not upgradeible to the "i" version like the 3.7 are. Neither  the 1.7 or 1.7i  have the 'true ribbon' tweeter (and it's not an option) but they're 1/3rd the price of the 3.7i.  Yes, the 3.7i will perform better than the 1,7i. Will the 'true ribbon' tweeter and better bass performance of the 3.7i be worth the additional $4,000 to you?  You need to visit your local Magnepan dealer to find out for yourself.  A good dealer will allow you to take demo pairs to compare in your system.

     If you agree that newer Magnepans are a better choice, I think your only remaining decision is amplification. I'm having a little trouble here because I don't know your budget.   Here are a few thoughts/options until you tell us:

1. No matter which Magnepans you ultimately decide on, try them out with your VAC Avatar first and only explore other options if you're not completely happy with the combination.
2. Use your VAC as a pre-amp and pair it with a high- powered  amp; probably best to try different typologies to determine your preference (tube,class A, A/B and D)
3. In my opinion, to get the best results out of any Magnepans, the best method is to pair a good tube pre-amp you really like the sound of with a high-powered  stereo amp or mono-blocks of any type (tube or solid state). If sound quality is the top concern and budget is not, there are too many good choices to mention only a few.  If sound quality is important but cost is too, then we'd need your budget to offer useful suggestions. The options become more limited as your budget decreases but I think you'll still receive some good suggestions.

Thanks,
Tim

I would not get too caught up in the whole true versus quasi ribbon question.......a quasi ribbon is ANY variation on a true ribbon, which is simply a ribbon in air w/ voltage applied......In the case of the 1.7i's, the quasi ribbon consists of a TRUE RIBBON applied to a mylar film, whereas in the case of the 3.7 and 20.7 loudspeakers, no mylar film......that's it!

Whoever said that the 2.5 sounds better than a 1.7i needs to go hear the 1.7i (and he said he had not)......I have heard both of them (in the case of the 2.5 though, it was a quarter of a century ago!)

The 1.7i's have a wonderful musicality with less bass than the 3.7i's, but in a small to medium space, you'd likely not miss it......we're talking 3x the cost to go to 3.7i's, but there are bargains to be had on 3.7's, in the 3k to 3.5k range........

If I were the original poster, I would absolutely dismiss purchasing a loudspeaker going on 30 years old......The current stable of Maggies are night and day different now in terms of coherency and musicality......it would be much like having a quilt removed from the old speaker.......and quasi ribbon versus true are TRIVIAL matters.....

In my mind the choice would be based on size of listening room and what you could make work aesthetically.......1.7i if space is limited and 3.7 or 3.7i if it's not (you can always upgrade the 3.7 to i status later for 500.00 plus freight......

The 3.7s are wonderful but the 1.7i is cut from the same cloth......

Here is a video of 1.6's, which the 1.7i's obliterate in my opin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRsVxyNiAOY

Here is a video of my setup back when I had the 7 amps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KkhdoYLZU

Just after adding 28s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgmHbORQ5Ew


How good are the 3.7s?

Least costly component in my system by a very large margin
and they're not going ANYWHERE.........they are not for sale.....and probably won't be for a very long time........

A friend and I stopped by Shelly's Audio in the San Fernando Valley one day back in the 80's. They had a pair of 3.1's in the showroom and were driving them with a pair of VTL "Tiny Tots" ... tube amps putting out only 25 watts per channel. Gotta say, within the power range, the sound was simply glorious. You wouldn't want to use these amps with Maggies on a full time basis of course, but as a simple experiment, it was really good. 

Those little VTL Tiny Tots are as rare as hen's teeth now. 

I have the Avatar you have, and I once had Magnepan Mg2a's.  First, old Maggie's can have a problem with the glue deteriorating, and it's not always obvious to the listener.  Second, I wouldn't think this is a good match.  Maggie's seem to need a muscle amp with lots of current, and I think a lot of purchasers are disappointed when they try to make a smaller amp work--me included.  I had a well-respected 100 watt Sansui, but not enough grunt.  I've never seen them demoed with a low power tube amp, which should be a clue.

Tim,
Can you mod a 1.7 with a true ribbon in the tweeter? 

I did not read all the posts, so if this is a repeat, I'm sorry. 
The Avatar is a great amp, first of all. I love it, owned one. Second, Kevin Hayes, owner, designer of VAC, would be your best source of 'What if'.
He will be completely honest.
BTW, the Maggies, are an almost flat, IIRC 4 ohm load.
Also, someone mentioned the 60 Day Trial, I'd do that.
Good luck.
Larry

natureboy,

    As stewart0722 mentioned, the 2.5/R are older speakers circa 1987.  They have a freq. range of 37-40,000 hz +/- 3 db.  A big plus of these spkrs is that they have the very good true ribbon tweeter panel section, not the QR (Quasi-ribbon)  tweeter panel section used in some other Maggies. 

     Here's my opinion of the sound quality performance heirarchy of Magnepan spkrs I think you're considering (from best to least in sound quality performance):

1. 3.7i  - Circa 2014,  $5,995/pr. 

2. 3.7/R -Circa 2011,  $5,495/pr.

3. 3.6/R -Circa 2000, $ used/pr.?

4. 2.5/R- Circa 1987 $ used/pr.?

5. 1.7i-  Circa 2014 $1,995/pr.



     These rankings are just my opinion and others may disagree.  I'm not going to go into great detail to explain my rankings or the differences between the models.

       I also want to add that I've auditioned all of these, with the only exceptions being the "i" versions,  at audio stores only  and not in my system/room.

      I ranked  the 1.7 and 3.7 "i" versions superior to the base models of each based on their overwhelmingly opinions of the "i" versions superiority by professional audio reviewers and my own opinion that Magnepan would not have added these versions unless they were convinced that  both were significant  improvements.  

     I believe the 2.5/R is likely the best value of the bunch since it has the excellent true ribbon tweeter section and would be the least expensive.  The  3.6, 3.7 and 3.7i, in my opinion,  are going to be clearly superior to the 2.5  but I believe the most noticeable difference will be the improvement in bass performance which is significantly more effective on the 3.6 and above.  Used or demo versions of 3.6/R and 3.7/R may also represent bargains. 

     If you have a local Magnepan dealer, you should visit and audition some of these for yourself.  The dealer may even allow you to home demo some.  

Thanks,
  Tim

Randy,
I think my listening room is a bit on the large size, so guessing the 1.7's would be better suited? 
Setup is in my living room area which merges right into the dining room, so it's a good percentage of the whole house. The whole house is about 2100sqft, so I'm guessing living/dining area are about 700-850 sqft, roughly

Hasse,

When I say low level detail, I'm referring to minute details such as decay of a piano, or revealing of things you hear in older jazz recordings in a quiet passage such as a chair creaking, or the subtle brush of a cymbal....in those areas I thought the Bryston was better.  The X350 is certainly no slouch in the bass department......

The overall signature of sound for 7s versus 28s is so very similar, that if a person's wattage/headroom/room size needs were served by a pair of 7s, I would stick with it......I had a chance to get a pair of 28s for not a huge amount for upgrade, so I went for it......and while it's true it sounds like there is more headroom, the 7s still sounded similar for half the money.....but the 28s aren't leaving :)

while the the 3.7 is a physically larger speaker than a 1.7, Maggie themselves will tell you it is acoustically smaller

so will sound better in a smaller room

3x more spendy tho

Nature boy,

The 2.5r is a very old speaker.....the 1.7 would be quite a bit better, and the I a little better than that......of course the 3.7 or 3.7i would be an even more substantial bump in performance.......it's really a function of room size, the 3.7 is just a larger speaker than a 1.7......

Stewart,
1.7 is also > 2.5r or only the 1.7i that you mentioned? 

Randy,
you're saying the 3.7 is better than the 1.7 or vise versa? 

Nature boy, go read Harry Pearson's review of the 3.7's in Harry's Workshop, absolute sound and jonathan valins follow up article......it's a good explanation of why the .7 variants are such a huge upgrade over past Maggie iterations......quasi ribbons have a LOT to do with it, the .7i's are yet another step beyond......I think you would see a night and day difference, and with amps, probably not.......

ok, I use a Sunfire Cinema Grand amp to drive my 1.5QRs...

The $$ allocation should likely be better speakers, then better amp.  The 3.7's are acoustically smaller than the 1.7's so why not consider those? (That is fresh and straight from the horse's mouth - may even be on their web site).

I'd love to have Bryston's too but they are not cheap - maybe the Canad. dollar will fall to 1% of where it is now...

A Maggie dealer near me is using a Rogue for drive but it is still $4k.  I'd say go for the 3.7s first and may do the same myself.

PS
I am listening in a rather large sized room (IMO)  . . it's a living room area with wood floors and it's about 650 sqft more or less. Maybe closer to 700. I have a pretty varied musical taste (as many people here tend to have), I tend to listen to a mix of classic rock, prog, jazz and classical. 

Stewart0722,
So both the  3.7s and the 1.7i would be upgrades to the 2.5's I'm looking at? I'm not quite a Magie expert, so input like this is definitely very valuable. If I can get a better speaker for a reasonable increase in price I can definitely look into it. 

Tim,
I can start out by testing them with the avatar and if they are falling short, then I would switch out components. Class D was something I had not considered, but you are definitely making a strong case for them. Specially if I can get a tubey sound by preamp. I didn't know preamp dictated the sound as much as it seems to; I always thought amps would color your listening experience more than a preamp. 

stewart0722,

     The Magnepan 2.5R are 84db (the 3.7 are 86db and the 2.7 are 87db)..  I would consider all of these as inefficient speakers but not sufficiently so to rule out the use of the 60 watt Vac Avatar as long as the room isn't too large and the volume ismoderate. The speaker's 4 ohm impedance may be a bigger issue, however, the VAC does have 4 ohm  speaker taps.  I don't think we know enough about natureboy's room, budget or listening habits to rule out the use of his VAC.

    I think your suggestion of the Emerald Physics 100.2, (currently on sale for $599) may be a good match for the 2.5s.  I own a 100.2SE(150 watts/ch @ 4 ohms)  and use it in bridged mode(450 watts@ 4 ohms) for my CC3 center channel.  When I first received it I tried it out in stereo mode on my 2.7s (just out of curiosity) and it drove them very well; very good bass,  very dynamic,dead quiet and finely detailed  with a very sweet and smooth mid-range and treble.  It uses an analog power supply(not a switch mode power supply) and the amp is stable down to 2 ohms.  Of the 3 brands of class D amps I own, I think the Emerald Physics has the most tube-like mid-range and treble while still possessing the typical class D excellent bass response. 

    While I think this amp in stereo would perform very well driving Natureboy's 2.5s with its 100 watts/ch, I think buying 2 and bridging both to mono for 250 watts/ch is likely to give natureboy the best performance from his 2.5s, well worth the added expense.  


Tim