Magnepan 3.5r Owners needed.... No bass

My first recommendation is to contact Magnepan.

My second is to contact John Rutan (Audioconnection). He is a dealer, and he knows what makes things work-Yes, a dealer, but a really good guy who provides free info without making you buy something. PM me if you want contact info.

Beyond that, can you list your equipment?

Maggies don't have the booming bass, but if they sound 'thin', it might be something in your system that is lacking.

I could not think of anything. Then I thought maybe the phase is reversed in one channel? Check it out before going deeper.

Hello, Russ.  I thought the same.  Checked everything.  It's all fine.  

gdnrbob-   Nothing in the system is lacking.  

I used to get very clean and full bass.  Not interested in talking to any more dealers.  Called a few and none were interested in helping find the problem.  As soon as they heard I was not buying something, they tuned out.  I've owned Magnepan speakers for decades.  I know what they need.  Never had an issue before recently.  

I thought perhaps someone one here might have experienced the same thing.  If anyone has, please let me know.  

Gracias

op

did you move the speakers?  placement relative to wall behind makes a huge difference in bass response due to potential for doubling or cancellation, given the dipole dispersion of the panels

Well, it is your loss.

B

No offense, but if you haven't experienced the issue, no need to chime in.  

I already know all about the way Magnepans behave.  I didn't come on here to discuss the basics.  

@gdnrbob- Nothing in the system is lacking.

...well, except the bass

love it when a new guy comes here, asks for help, expresses frustration on a problem

then pisses on others’ attempts to help, says he knows all about the basics (but still has the problem that he just can’t solve)

what a recipe for success...

No idea why you're trying to pick a fight.  Yes, there are actually problems beyond the "basics."  I've read the thread and perhaps  many people need basic instruction on Magnepans.  I do not.  you must not have read or understood my original post.

I didn't come on here to argue.  
And I'm not a guy.  I am a woman.  

I have no interest in debating about nonsense.  If you're that sensitive about someone wanting to keep it to the point that you respond this way, you shouldn't be on the internet.  I stated what I was looking for.  If that offends you, don't reply.  No need to start an inane argument.  

@jsbelieve

to be honest i really don’t care enough about your plight to be upset in the least

i am just amused that someone would show indigation, negativity, and a foul attitude to people trying to help, after having asked for it -- thus my last comment

please don’t let the door hit you on the way out

I was searching through posts here doing some research on Magnepans and happened onto this one.  I have got to say somebody here needs serious help, and it ain’t jjss49. It is just some pretty pathetic stuff on display here.

Troll someone else.  I have no interest in you or your weird projections.  

I actually live my life.  I don't spend it in front of a screen attacking people for being direct.  Take your victim routine elsewhere.  

If you have nothing constructive to contribute, say nothing.  

No idea how your trolling hasn't been flagged.  No wonder women don't come on here.  

@jsbelieve  You got my head scratching. Let me just go down the list. Are you in the same room? Did you move anything? Did it happen over time or suddenly? Did you try a different bass amp? And I always suggest checking to make sure your bananas are not pushed in too far. That's everything I can think of. 

Thanks so much for getting back, Russ.  

I appreciate all these "basics," lol, but I assure you I've checked them. 

Same room.  Nothing moved.  Happened suddenly.  Same amp.  I've tried others.  Same.  Also not happening with my other Magnepan models.  

I have not checked to see if the bananas were pushed too far in.  I have them pushed in all the way, as always, but actually, that could be.  Are you suggesting a poor contact from being pushed in too far?  Not a bad thing to check.  I mean I certainly pulled all of my connections in and out multiple times, tried different cables, etc.   

The amp I'm using has bi-wiring capability.  Two sets of outputs on rear.  I am not using subs now, so I wire them both to the external crossovers on the 3.5.  

When I plug in my mg12's WOW, the bass is excellent.  Of course they can't match the 3.5's in overall tonal quality, soundstage and realism, but they're lovely speakers nonetheless.  

I'm wondering If there's a connection unglued or something, but it would be odd to occur on both speakers.  

It could just be the terrible room that I'm in, because it is a terrible room, but it never did this before, so it's not.  But you know when you've tried everything, and then start to question things you're sure of?  Like looking for your keys in the refrigerator?? LOL. 

Anyway, I appreciate your response.  Do you also have 3.5r speakers? 

Have you heard of this happening?  

Your earlier post about phase being inverted is exactly what I thought in the beginning.  Everything is connected properly in terms of polarity.  
Also, a few weeks back, my turntable and phono preamp combo began picking up a radio station.  FM, of all things.  That's been driving me nuts, and my lovely noise 

So, double whammy.  

My first OBs (Open Baffles) some 20 years ago were Accoustat 2+2s, which I MIGHT still own but for the tube servo amps back then were unstable. Fortunately someone finally figured out how to make them stable. Anyway Im an OB lover, my next OB being 3.5Rs purchased used.

I had a several year love- hate relationship them. First I sent them to Magnepan as one of the bass panels was de-laminated 🙄. Once back I biamped, tried several different amps, had custom made silver jumpers between the XOs which were placed well away from the panels (are yours affixed to the panels?) moving on from there, I tried active XOs. I finally threw in the towel. Had a bunch of monkey coffins, which never threw the intoxicating sound stage I love. For the last few years I have been enjoying Emerald Physics 3.4s, which are only 41" tall, throw as huge of a sound stage, but are very efficient. EP also makes other versions that include 15" woofers. These come up for sale occasionally. (see my Virtual System for pics)

BTW nice to have a female ’phile in the mix 😍

hth

5,872 posts

03-23-2023 at 11:10am 

@jsbelieve

to be honest i really don’t care enough about your plight to be upset in the least

i am just amused that someone would show indigation, negativity, and a foul attitude to people trying to help, after having asked for it -- thus my last comment

please don’t let the door hit you on the way out

back at ya.

@jsbelieve It's just 1 speaker, right?

Tweak1

Thanks for sharing part of your journey.  I'm always interested to hear that. I find that more people quit Maggies than stick with them.  Which is unfortunate, but people choose what works for them.  I think if we all had perfect rooms and the open space, more folks would stick with them.  

 I have no delamination, but haven't been getting the bass these should put out.  I am just about ready to go active with them.  I could definitely use some knowledge and expertise here.  I understand the basic concepts, but my trepidation has always been in spending too much money on an active crossover and not liking the sound or having It color the sound too much and create yet another variable in my system. 

I am just not sure what I'll do at this point because the mids and highs easily beat box speakers costing many times more than these.  When they're sounding right, I can't imagine looking for another speaker or doing the gear lust thing that I see so many people doing.  I like fighting until I get it sounding right.  SHouldn't be a fight, but if you saw this silly trapezoidal room I'm in that I also must use as a living room, you'd understand.   Last year I had these things Singing.  I had them off to the side and covered for a while during my busy work season and swapped between my smaller Maggies.  

I tried looking at the pic of your system, but when I click on it, it takes me to a page that says- OH NO, NOT 500. 

No idea what that's about.  I'd definitely like to see what you're talking about.

Thank you for sharing. 

Oh, wait.  Just thinking of the crossover thing.  

So when I set my amp to only use the speaker "b" outputs, which are the ones going to the bass on the external crossovers, I can listen to exactly what I am getting.  When I turn up the volume like that, It feels like the bass should be three of four notches above how it normally is.   Of course, I can't keep it that way because then the highs would be so overly loud and I'd be listening at concert levels everyday.  But I have hope that perhaps an active crossover could solve this.  
Anyway, just thought I'd mention that.  Thank you for your input.  

Perhaps you should see what happens if you use different electronics. 

It may not be the Maggies at all.  

By the way, I have had three pairs of Maggies over the past 25 years and love them all,  

Jrosemd- 

Tried many things.  I've used different electronics.  Again, it did not have this issue before, even with the electronics I'm using currently.  

But I've used several vintage pieces and some newer ones.  Vincent audio, Parasound, etc.  

I currently use a very nice, very powerful class a amplifier.  500 watts per channel in 4ohms, 100 watts pure class a.  

It's not that.  But I understand why you'd say that.  

I've always found the room to be the most important thing with Maggies.  Even more than electronics.  Then electronics 2nd.  

What model are you currently using?  

IME, although it is weird, it’s normal when only connecting the bass drivers of any speaker to barely make sound. I forget. does the back of the panel have 2 fuses? That's worth a check

Cheap actives are junk but you can buy a cheap one from several sources with money back, which would let you see if that would solve your issue, but for excellent active XO search Phil Marchand

Sometime the VS pages glitch. Try it again. ITMT: Copied from my Virtual page . I also have write up there in the comments

hth

Thanks for this.  

And you're right about the speakers not making much sound when only the bass is connected.  The only reason I checked while listening separately is that I wasn't getting much bass at all.

The rear of these speakers has two fuses.  Midrange and tweeter.  There is no fuse for the bass.

The Marchand was something on my list, but again, was very expensive when I really don't know how it will perform in my system or how big a difference it will make.  I also looked into Puritan Audio.  

Those are costly options.  I was going to go with a behringer and see if it makes a difference.  

Thanks for sharing the pic.  Those are interesting looking speakers, indeed. 

OK. even if you inspect the fuses visually, you might not see a problem. They're cheap, I would replace them. Better still though I never tried it but many swear by bypassing the fuses all together (do a search).

I went through 3 Behringers and 2 DBXs- total crap, BUT, with money back you could at least determine what (if anything) they could bring to the table

hth

Again, thanks for the advice.  

I already changed fuses.  I meant when I said I'd tried the basics.  I have tried bypassing in the past, unrelated to this issue, and I always thought it sounded terrible.  The fuses are brand new and I've changed those out, anyway. 

Good to know about the Behringers and DBX's.  I won't waste the time.  

I found one called Sublime acoustics.  $500.  Not inexpensive.  Looks to be decent quality, although the plasticky rca connections in rear don't look to be the best.  

But, since I've been wanting to migrate to active crossovers for my bi-amping for around 15 years, now might be the time to just try it.  

Regarding your speakers, what are those dividers?  Do those come with the speakers?  I've always found that when I do that with Magnepans, they sounded better.  I used to put another pair of Maggies on the outside of both the ones I was listening to.  Unless I was in a great room already, which I used to have.  Now I'm listening in my apartment and it's not ideal.  17x19 for the 3.5's would be fine in a square, but this trapezoid, along with the opening in the room where it splits into another room just makes a mess of the sound.  I have taken a lot of steps to control it and get it to a respectable level. And now this bass issue.  

Thanks for trying.  

A couple years ago a friend came to my house he had an app in his phone which showed where the dead spot in my room is. If you don't have the app or a friend who does, get a pair of Dollys from Harbour Freight and keep experimenting with best placement

Not that this tip will solve your bass issue, but, there is a method for cryoing cables/fuses, etc in your frig and freezer. Do a search for the article

hth

I have not checked to see if the bananas were pushed too far in. 

Do you also have 3.5r speakers

The connectors can contact the circuit sometimes and do exactly what you are describing. I have not owned 3.5s but I helped my brother set up his 3.6s. (We solved the bass issue with Infinity RS1B towers). 

I actually have the sublimes.  I like the fact that changing the crossover points is just swapping an inexpensive board, so experimenting isn’t going to break the bank (like tube rolling.. 40 tubes…..)

the outs go to 2 tekton 2-10 subs,  mids and highs to a carver silver seven 900 (atm) and the lows go through a carver a760x.  The amps are feeding tekton Double Impact SE speakers..with single beryllium tweeter and bi-amp wiring.

Why I say (atm) is i am waiting on a new Carver RAM285 to swap for Silver Sevens.

I am looking at magnepans.. have a room that is fairly rectangle at 26x18 with vaulted ceilings.  I do have some room treatments on the walls and the room has a nice thick rug with padding..

What magnepans would you all suggest for the Silver Seven 900s and the room?

yes, I do like my music LOUD but also without distorting; feeling the vibrations in my chest, not just listening with ears  .. well and I work outside around the house alot too.. 

@nevada_matt 

Physically I did not like the fact that maggies being about the size of most doors, cut my room off. My personal preference is for a much shorter speaker. enter Emerald Physics OB 3.4s which throw as big of a sound stage as my Maggie 3.5Rs, but visually opened up the room (see my Virtual System). Now, if you want more bass they made a version of the 3.4s with both 1 and 2 @ 15" bass drivers.

No longer made but they do come up for sale from time to time at super cheap prices

hth

Underwood HIFI has an Emerald Physics page that says “new models in late March 2023”

Emailed for an update.

Still, any magnepan owners out there who could chime in on minimum level model to handle 900watts/channel, without blowing up or distorting?

@nevada_matt 

My old listening room for years was 24' wide by 34' long.  Vaulted ceilings. 

Best listening room I've ever been in due to wall materials and some other factors.  I HIGHLY recommend Magnepans for a room like the one you're describing.  

They have serious potential when given the space and not crowded with other things.  Other than a few plants, I had nothing else behind the speakers.  My components were off to the side, which is preferable to between speakers.  When I had that setup, I auditioned many expensive setups and in my head would always think(these don't come close to my system at home.)  I didn't always say it because you don't want to insult someone else's setup that they're enjoying.  And they were some really great rigs.  

But it literally took an $85,000 rig to get into the range of realism and Natural detail that I was getting.  

My point - the room is everything with Maggies and I think most people overlook this.  The room I am currently in is not 30% of what I used to get in my old house.  

But that is what happens when you move to the city.  Unless you have a huge loft or something.  Which many people do have.  

Sound stage in my old room was unlike anything I'd ever heard at any price.  It was not only wide, but so DEEP and holographic that it would stop you in your tracks.  

Amazing.  Sounded gorgeous.  A friend at the time who lived around the corner still had the first pair of Magnepans ever sold.  He bought them new.  They sounded AMAZING.  But again, large rooms, high ceilings.  12 feet, at least. 

I favor this environment for Magnepans and I always suggest this to those interested in Maggies.  

Regarding the sublimes, any other thoughts?  Do you feel they color the sound at all?  Are you satisfied with how they dial things in and tune your system?  Do you feel you're at an advantage sonically?  Cleaner?  Less distortion?  Or just different from passive, as opposed to "better." 

Oh, and another note -  the best setup I'd ever had that I described in my last post --- LAMP CORD.  Yep.  Plain old cheap copper wire.  I always get a kick out of that. I have decent cables now.  Wireworld oasis 8 and some audio quest, etc.  

So I definitely think wires and cables can make sonic differences.  But I always like to temper my desire for higher cables by reminding myself that the best sounding system I ever had was with cheap lamp cord type speaker wire.  HA.  I laugh just thinking about that now.  I used that wire from around 1995 to around 2015.  It really is interesting how that works.  Pretty cool, though.   Hope someone finds the stories helpful.  And thanks to Russ69.  I've been busy working, but absolutely need to pull my banana connectors out further and listen for just this.  I never used to push them all the way in, but at some point began doing so.  Thank you.  Very cool logo, by the way.  I've wanted to get a boat for a long time.  

@nevada_matt 

regarding amplification - I'm a pretty low-volume listener, these days.  But I wasn't always.  I also used to have my system on as I worked about the house.  I always loved the way Maggies sounded so LIVE from other rooms.  I used several amps over the years.  Definitely 800 watts per channel.  And more when I had a bridged setup.  My current setup is giving around 1000 watts per channel into the 3.5's.  

They are fine.  Very difficult to push them too hard.  But despite popular opinion, I'd always leave the fuses in.  They're there for a reason and I've blown many over the years.  Usually an error of my own like turning preamp off first like a dummy after too many glasses of wine or something.  But certainly if you're blasting your music for extended periods, this can blow fuses.  But that's what they're there for.  If you're using that kind of power, I'd suggest the 3.7i.  But those are not setup for bi-wire.  So I'd go for a used pair of 3.6's in excellent condition.  I see them pop up from time to time.   Great value for your dollar.  And the used prices are quite stable so you should get your money back fairly easily if you don't love them.  At those volumes, you could EASILY aggravate soon-to-be delaminated speakers.  So even speakers that sound great during audition with no buzzing, rattling or distortion, could develop issues after weeks of playing loud levels like you're describing.  I'd just be prepared for a possible refurbishing by Magnepan.  Which will still be well worth it, in my opinion.  I'm obviously biased to the Magnepan sound.  For the smaller Maggies, I'd say your amps' power is overkill for anything below the 1.7's 

The 1'7's would still benefit from the extra headroom, in my opinion.  I'm pretty sure there are reviewers out there who suggest that even the LRS benefit from loads of power like you're talking about.  

I haven't heard your amps in person, so I am just giving my general opinion based on power rating.  Whatever Maggies you choose, if you go that route, my suggestion is AT LEAST four feet from rear wall.  I had them six feet at least in my optimal setup.  They love the extra space. Once you go closer to the wall than that, I think other speakers sound better in a lot of ways.  

Good luck.  

How far would you from the side walls?  I have absorbers at 90deg off axis from the tektons and some high directly forward and on axis directly behind.  I find this to have cut down on much of the “bouncing around” that I had.   Do the magnepans benefit from room treatments?   Just thinking about it, does the distance from the rear wall perform the “same function” ie, lowering the impact of rear signal bouncing of that hard surface to soon, too strongly and causing what ends up sounding like distortion?

i don’t think the sublime “colors” the music at all.  It simply separates the frequency to separate outs, with a level adjustment available, so say a recording sounds to you like the vocals were overdone on the recording, simply lower the mid output, the overall “balance” of the music is adjustable..  I like adjust the music to how I like to listen to it.. not how some sound engineer decided it should sound…

The one thing I am .. less than enthusiastic about though is the fact that you have to open it and replace the crossover cards to move the crossover frequencies.. I’d like to find one that is variable, but doesn’t inject noise..  but, for $500, this is the best I can do for now, and it isn’t bad at all.  It does exactly what I bought it to do, pull out the sub, separate the low from mid/high and feed separate amps for each frequency range.  I’ll probably pick up a couple more pairs of x-over cards, just to “experiment, but the ones I got originally work well for the vast majority of the music I listen to.

Mark at Sublime Acoustic was very helpful with initial match for the tektons on xover frequencies.

zip cord.. yep.. large gauge good quality copper with many strands, lots of surface area for the signal propagation.  Used them myself in college.  

How far would you from the side walls?  I have absorbers at 90deg off axis from the tektons and some high directly forward and on axis directly behind.  I find this to have cut down on much of the “bouncing around” that I had.   Do the magnepans benefit from room treatments?   Just thinking about it, does the distance from the rear wall perform the “same function” ie, lowering the impact of rear signal bouncing of that hard surface to soon, too strongly and causing what ends up sounding like distortion?

So this is really subjective.  Trial and error is your best bet.  For me, I had great experience quite close or a few feet away from side walls.  

Distance from rear walls certainly does what you say in terms of reducing what sounds like distortion from the timing being thrown off due to being too close for reflections and causing a confused type of sound.  But that is not the primary reason for pulling them out, in my opinion. At least it is not why I do it.  Especially having heard many Maggies much closer that did not suffer from the effect you describe.  The reason to pull them out is to allow them to breathe more.  Vague, I know.  But if you think of the room as your box, it just allows them to be more balanced and complete. More precise. Better soundstage. Deeper soundstage.  Better off-axis sound.  and more realistic and live sounding.  That's been my experience with nearly 30 years of Magnepan listening.  So I'd experiment with moving them further out simply because most speakers benefit from this, but without a doubt, this is crucial to the Magnepan sound.  Again, many have great sound without doing this.  But not on the same level.  Nearly all speakers in nearly all rooms and speakers benefit from acoustic treatment.  Magnepan speakers probably more than most.  I happened to have a naturally beautiful sounding room, so I didn't need much at all.  Same with my friend who had the older pair.  He was in an old house Built in the 1800s.  He had a live jazz band play in his house once and it sounded fantastic.  Everything just sounded good.  He was very lucky.  the fact that you have vaulted ceilings puts you at an advantage, in my opinion, as I always find lower ceilings to crowd the sound.  Again, I'm sure there are many who may have had the opposite experience, and that's fine.   Just sharing mine. 

In general with Maggies, you want to treat the room without making it dead.  you want them to still have life.  I would go to your dealer and demo some of them and get a feel for what you like.  

Again, you're in a good position due to the power reserves you've got.  They like a lot of power.  A lot of current.  They become a much more refined sounding speaker as you go up the chain with front end quality.   

They're the only reason I still like solid state, high power amplifiers.  If not for Magnepans, I'd have gone high sensitivity speakers with tubes, long time ago.  

Magnepans just have something I miss when I am without them.  What part of the country are you in? 

Any Magnepan dealers near you?  

regarding the sublimes - yes, they divide the frequency ranges.  I just wondered if you'd listened with and without and heard a difference in the type of sound. 

I'm interested due to the price-point.  I don't like to use equalizers, so I doubt I'll turn one up more than the other, but I always noticed an improvement when separating frequencies.  

I'd be interested to see a pic of your setup if you end up going with the Magnepans.  Nice to chat about them.  I am tempted to turn them on and test russ69's suggestion about the bananas.  But as mentioned in a previous message, my big issue is a radio station right now.  

It has really turned me off to playing vinyl, which is my main listening source these days.  Real downer.