Hi Peter - excellent questions. I had ~1000 hours on the S5's. I would turn them on in the morning and let them play until I went to bed. This happened for over two months straight. After that, I had another three months of on/off listening. I tried different electronics with them (D'Agostino monos, VAC, McIntosh, etc.) and I really thought they sounded best with the VAC phi200's. That being said, I thought Vitus with Magico was incredible when I demoed it. I just couldn't bring myself to buy those big babies.
I always felt that yes, to be honest, the S5's could have used another few thousand hours. I've heard a number of 5000 hours to be full broken in. But I don't think they would have had a chameleon like change....but I could be wrong.
The Alexia's I tried in the same room briefly and they sounded great - but they have been in my main dedicated listening room most of the time. They are well broken in. I would estimate 1500+ hours.
The Alexia's were the hardest speaker to part with. They did so many things right. I spent over $15,000 on room treatments (ASC bass traps and Vicoustic panels) and still could not rid the 73hz bass hump in my room that they produced. I even tried a Spatial Black hole (cool little device). It helped, but not completely. You know that when you get that "boooooom, boooooom" that just completely overpowers the room at a certain frequency, it can drive you bonkers. I tried different amps, cables, etc. and it was always there.
I've always wondered why more speaker manufacturers don't have room tuning/adjustability on their speakers like Revel has. But I digress....
I never had this problem with the Alexia's in my Family room (where the S5's were and Tannoy's reside now). I regret not trying the S5's in my main listening room....I bet with the sealed enclosure, I wouldn't have had those bass issues....but we won't know. From an audiophile standpoint, the S5's did nothing wrong. They just didn't grab me emotionally. I'm not going to bash them....they are great speakers and to be honest, a crazy good value vs a lot of what else is out there. I think paired with some nice tube amps or Class A topology amps (Vitus, Pass) - the S1/S3/S5's can be the ticket for many.
It's easy to say "try this speaker in this room and that speaker in the other room", but hauling speakers up and down two flights of stairs is just not my idea of fun....so yes, I would love to try every speaker in every room....but sometimes, its just not an option.
I had no intention of buying Tannoy's. I had heard the Kingdom Royals several times at RMAF/CES and thought they were awful to be frank. But I went to visit friends in Toronto a while back and one has the West Ministers GR's and the other has the Canterbury GR's. I listened to them both extensively over a period of two weeks during my visit and couldn't believe how different they were from the Kingdom Royals. I found them very musically engaging and effortless. I would classify their sound as "sweet". I've also spoken to Jim Smith several times about his Canterbury's and he seems to really like them.
Now that I have the Canterbury GR's in my family room (my wife loves the looks), I have been playing with different amps (Mc 275 monos, Mc275 stereo, VAC phi200 stereo, Cary 300b SE monos). I really like a single Mc275.....but honestly, everything sounds good so far. Right now, I have a single VAC phi200 driving them and they are sounding great. I'm eyeing a Line Magnetic 219ia, but will need to hire a football team to lift it!
So yes, I love to experiment with gear. I've been an audiophile since the 70's when yes, I actually had a quadrophonic setup. I like to try different gear and gain different experiences. I could write a book on my experiences with Klipsch, B&W, Magnepan, Sonus Faber, Revel, WIlson, Magico and countless others.
I have a friend who trades cars every 3-6 months....I think he's nuts.....he thinks I'm nuts....I get it. For some, being an audiophile is about the journey and not the destination. Those that don't swap gear will NEVER EVER understand those who do. |
Lets say bad things about MAGICO the best speaker in many ways if you don't like MAGICO KEEP ON TRUCKIN!!!!!! |
Mbovaird, did you happen to listen to your Magico S5, Wilson Alexia and Tannoy Canterbury in the same room/system and do a proper direct comparison, or are your opinions based on a more general feeling having heard them in different settings?
Are you confident that the Magico and Wilsons were fully broken it before you decided to sell them? And finally, could you describe how the three speakers sounded different and what it was about the Tannoy that you ended up preferring over the other two? Thanks. |
Usermanual and Melbguy,
I do not know what Mike (Mbovaird) did/said to light up a fuse under your collective a...s. Mike has admitted several times that he likes to swap gear. He just opined that he preferred the sound of Tannoy to Magico. One can always fall in love with a piece of gear and then find something that suits them better. Why is that so hard for you to digest? He did not make any derogatory comments about you. I do not see him advertizing his audio blog on this forum. You are the ones bringing it into the conversation. |
07-28-14: Usermanual
Like I said, I give him 3 months, maybe less
+ 1 |
Gentlemen, gentlemen, please...no need to bicker. The speakers both suck, they just happen to suck in very different ways. I hope that this serves to calm these turbulent waters. |
Interesting Charles that you claim "I'm just as entitled to a viewpoint as you" then proceed to attempt to discredit me by rubbishing my comments. It sais a lot that other participants in this thread support your comments. |
Al,
Thanks and I much appreciate your very kind comments.
Mel, we're all just guys sharing opinions on a topic of common interest.I'm just as entitled to a viewpoint as you(no more, no less). Tannoy lovefest? Because some listeners here prefer them to the Magico? come on! Anyway I've said what I have to say, there's nothing useful to be gained by continuing to go on and on about this.Would it be a Magico "lovefest" if more comments here happened to agree with you? I don't understand the anger on a thread simply discussing speakers.
Take Care,
Charles, |
Al, In a nutshell I'm suggesting Mbovaird's recent comments about his ill-fated S5's are disingenuous based on his long history of flipping gear to promote his own interests, and that Charles blind defense of his comments is at best uninformed. Instead of considering that I might have a considered opinion, members here instead went on the attack suggesting I have an ulterior motive and am speaking out of ignorance. Anyway, this thread has become a Tannoy love-in and has long-since ceased being a balanced discussion. There are other forums which offer objective and constructive discussion on the S5's. This is not one of them. |
I'v skimmed through all these posts again, and still don't know what the OP finally decided on. Did I miss something?
Dan |
Dave - spoke to my dealer today and he doesn't think the super tweeter is beneficial with the new GR series and its advances. He said the super tweeter was beneficial with the SE series.
Not sure....would still like to try them though.
Mike |
07-30-14: Melbguy1
Charles, no sensitivity regarding Magico, but I for one get frustrated by members like you who act like self-appointed Defense Barristers without taking the time to know the facts. That would take a lot of time and objectivity, two commodities you clearly lack. I have no dog in this, um, debate. However, at the risk of seeming like a self-appointed defense barrister I will state that IMO, "knowing" Charles not personally but through his many posts over the years, the quoted allegation is simply absurd. And I have no doubt that most long-time A'gon regulars will agree with me. Also, I would offer the suggestion that when it comes to acting in defense of a given speaker model, ad hominem comments that are vitriolic in tone will tend to come across less than persuasively to those who may be seeking the truth of the matter. Certainly in comparison to the many opinions that were stated in a classy manner earlier in the thread. Regards, -- Al |
Charles, no sensitivity regarding Magico, but I for one get frustrated by members like you who act like self-appointed Defense Barristers without taking the time to know the facts. That would take a lot of time and objectivity, two commodities you clearly lack. |
Bill that is the same sense I detect as well, motives questioned because he didn't like the Magico. Seems a bit childish in reality.Why so sensitive regarding the Magico? |
Never underestimate the power of denial.. |
I don't see how Mbovaird did anything wrong here. It appears to me that the parties objecting to his input are the ones with a real agenda of their own. He never even brought up the other website which you claim he is trying to gain publicity for. The "objectors" were the ones who brought that up once his experience didn't agree with what they may prefer or own. Makes one wonder who really has other motives here, doesn't it? I welcome Mbovaird's input here or elsewhere, and find his comments to be of more value than many other posters here. |
Charles, no argument about this being a free and open forum, that's why members like Usermanual and I are free to express our opinion, right? I only object to members who promote products for the express purpose of attracting more readers to their website. This guy then talks up his latest acquisition until interest wains, then flips his rhetoric around 180 degrees before dumping said product. I take if you're reasonably intelligent? This member has considerable form in the audiophile world. I appreciate genuine, considered and unbiased comments. I don't appreciate disingenuous comments from a member with obvious bias motivated by self interest. |
I agree that an open forum allows comments from all who desire to share their opinions, that's a good thing. Why get upset with someone who owned the Magico and found it disappointing? Obviously he finds the Tannoy a better speaker. Some agree with his viewpoint and others won't.Usermanual you seem to take it personal when someone doesn't care for Magico speakers. If they please you it shouldn't matter what other listeners report regarding their experience.
Charles, |
07-29-14: mbovaird
Usermanual/Melbguy1 - I like to change gear and try different things in my room. Isn't that the best way to really know if something works or not? Since I don't have any dealers within 200 miles of me, I have to buy, try and move on. It sure isn't fun moving hundreds of pounds of gear, most times losing money, dealing with shipping hassles, etc. But this is the only way to get real - in home - experience. And remember, this is a hobby. Relax. That's very smooth. Were you once a door to door Insurance salesman? Don't waste your time on us...we've heard this traveling snake oil show of your turn up on on numerous audio forums. It's getting to be a yawn.. |
Mbovaird, ok cool. Yes, that's what I've heard as well. And from what I've heard it doesn't make the sound bright or shrill. So yeah, it could be a great investment. |
Isn't that the best way to really know if something works or not? No it is not the best way. One does not have to jump from the roof to know it will be a painful landing. Regardless, it is perfectly fine to do what you are doing, but once you report on it in public, and make judgements, we reserved the right to tell you what we think. I am SUPER relax, BTW. |
By the way, this thread is over a year old. Did the OP actually decide on something? |
Dave - no, I have not tried the super tweeters with the Tannoy's. I hope to one day soon. I've heard, depending on the room and associated gear/cables, it can be quite good.
Usermanual/Melbguy1 - I like to change gear and try different things in my room. Isn't that the best way to really know if something works or not? Since I don't have any dealers within 200 miles of me, I have to buy, try and move on. It sure isn't fun moving hundreds of pounds of gear, most times losing money, dealing with shipping hassles, etc. But this is the only way to get real - in home - experience. And remember, this is a hobby. Relax. |
07-28-14: Usermanual
Arent you the guy from audio shark who keeps changing speakers like I change socks? So you discover the high-efficacy, SET world? It has been around for some time you know, and yes, it has its charm and can work well as an office system. You are listening to a setup that has about 50% less resolution then the S5 and you call it more musical?
What is next Bose 901? I give you 3 months with these, keep us posted (-; Yes he is. This guy flips gear not in the pursuit of finding the right synergy for his taste and room, but in the pursuit of more publicity for his website. That's all it is. That's why be buys new gear every few months, tells the audiophile world it is the greatest thing since sliced bread then suddenly has a change of heart & flips his gear. Remember the endless sermons over his beloved Alexia's? Now they're so great they're on the 'Gon for sale. So take his comments on the S5's with a *big* grain of salt... |
Mbovaird, are you using the supertweeters with your Tannoys? I ask this because I've heard they make a noticeable difference. As for amps, you might also consider Class A solid state. Anyway, congrats. They are one Hell of a speaker. Happy listening! |
Like I said, I give him 3 months, maybe less
|
Usermanual,if anything he's getting more true music resolution and realism with his SET and Tannoys than his prior Magico S5, he had both in his home and would know.If you're satisfied with your Magico speakers why worry concerning his conclusions anyway? You're both currently happy. |
Arent you the guy from audio shark who keeps changing speakers like I change socks? So you discover the high-efficacy, SET world? It has been around for some time you know, and yes, it has its charm and can work well as an office system. You are listening to a setup that has about 50% less resolution then the S5 and you call it more musical?
What is next Bose 901? I give you 3 months with these, keep us posted (-; |
The components that keep you engaged and compel you to listen for longer periods are the ones to own. Emotional involvement is crucial for prolonged enjoyment. I suspect that the LM 219i SET 845 amplifier would be wonderful with your Tannoys. I'm with you regarding the Magico, no need to bash it. As you said, it does audiophile/hifi well but just lacks emotion, natrualness and musical realism for me . Certainly other listeners find them ideal for their taste and that's fine. I'm glad you've found what works best for you.
Charles, |
Charles - I agree with you. The Magico S5's are not bad speakers and they do a lot of things well - you know, all the audiophile sound things. But in my room, they just didn't do it for me. The Canterbury GR's do. I'm running (for the moment) a little pair of Cary 300b monos with some sweet tubes. Sounds glorious. I'm eyeing a Line Magnetic 219ia integrated for the Canterbury's.
To be honest, I didn't even consider Tannoy's until I heard a friends big Westminister GR's and another friends Canterbury GR's. I just kept saying, "one more record and then I'll leave." :) |
Mbovaird,
Well you put your money where your mouth is and had both speakers in your system. There's no better test than that. Congratulations! The opportunity to use low power amplifiers is a major bonus, you'll have much enjoyment. It reveals a whole new world of musical beauty and exploration.
Charles, |
I've owned the Magico S5's and now have a pair of Tannoy Canterbury GR's in the same spot. It's no contest. Tannoy's are much more musical, and their excellent efficiency and easy load allow for near endless amplifier choices - including some wonderful 300b or 845/211 SET options. |
I would go the magic/hegel route - RMAF show that just passed - hegel was touted to have the best in show sound with Magico S1 driven by their new humble 75wpc Hegel H80 (the sound was seductively silky smooth). |
Listen to them and then, if you are still not sure, go read JA review of the Churchill... |
'
"Well, it does not look like they have managed to achieve this goal..."
Usermanual, may I ask what is the basis for your statement?
Thanks!
Best,
Jim Smith
' |
I'm still waiting for Kiddmann to explain his comment (on 10/22) about why he thinks Magico has "higher distortion". Peterayer, Don't hold your breath. |
'
Thanks, peterayre!
Nice of you to apologize, but none is needed.
The Canterburys have tone to spare, so thinking it could be from the cabinet had me wondering. :)
Best,
Jim
' |
>> Tannoy literature clearly states that the design goal is for a rigid, inert cabinet construction..
Well,it does not look like they have managed to achieve this goal... |
Peterayer we forgive you. |
Hello Jim,
I had always been under the impression that Tannoy, like Audio Note, Spendor and Harbeth, designs its cabinets to resonate, somewhat like instruments. Now that you ask for a reference, however, I can not find any material that supports that assumption.
I did a search and the Tannoy literature clearly states that the design goal is for a rigid, inert cabinet construction, so I am mistaken. It seemed to me that this was a major difference in the designs of Magico and Tannoy. I am wrong.
I did find this review in Stereophile of the Tannoy Churchill speaker which describes a resonating cabinet as contributing to a beautifully natural sound on vocals and some other instruments, particularly in the midrange: http://www.stereophile.com/content/tannoy-churchill-loudspeaker-page-3
But I don't think this is a design goal on Tannoy's part. Clearly, I am mistaken and apologize for posting a faulty presumption on my part. |
'
Hi Peterayer,
Where have you found info from Tannoy suggesting the cabinet is meant to resonate?
Not a trick question since as you know, I have modified Tannoy Canterburys and I prefer them to most anything else (no recommendation at all - just what I like).
This would be interesting reading - at least for me.
Best,
Jim
' |
I'm still waiting for Kiddmann to explain his comment (on 10/22) about why he thinks Magico has "higher distortion". It's just interesting to me because that is a view/opinion that I don't hear very often. Magicos, whether you like them or not, are usually described as being "analytical", sterile, unemotional etc in part because of the rigid cabinet that does not vibrate like so many other speaker cabinets, especially like the Tannoys which are designed to resonate and contribute to the sound of the speaker. |
I do not view Kiddman as troll in any sense, he simply does not care for Magico, I understand his perspective. Some listeners love them and some do not care for them,it is really just that simple. You like them and that is your choice(which is perfectly fine) why can`t Kiddman state his? I find his posts to be informative and refreshing. |
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The S5 are the lowest distortion loudspeakers ever measured by the NRC. In terms of any realistic measures, there is no question that the S5 is a superior speaker then any Tannoy.
I bet you that Kiddman never really heard a Magico. And if he did, there were plenty distortion in that setup for sure, they were just not in the speakers (-; Kiddman has been trolling the Magico threads for some time, spreading the hate, I wouldnt take him too seriously. |
Kiddman, what can you tel me about the new Westminster GR ? What are the new materials and how does it sound ? |
Magico S5 high resolution great detail wonderful imaging. |
Ok, so finally going to audition S5, but the dealer gave me these option for Electronics.
ARC ref-75 / Dan DÀgostino / krell 402e as amplifiers and ARC Ref.5, CD ARC CD9 / Nagra as Power amps
Devialete / Krell S550i integrated |
Kiddman, this is the first time I've heard Magico speakers described as having "higher distortion". How did you measure this high distortion and what do you think causes it? |
You missed the point Melba. And that point is that there are some significantly more revealing and detailed speakers that are much less sensitive to having the exact right electronics. The reason: those are lower distortion. The point is NOT whether or not the Magicos have deeper bass or play louder. The point is that they are higher distortion and that is the main reason for sensitivity to upstream components, NOT some "great transparency" that makes them so tricky to match. |
