Magico Pods vs Townshend Seismic Platforms

No, but the huge difference here is going to be in low-frequency isolation, and whether your application even benefits from that. Being a "hard" interface, the Magicos won’t touch low frequencies. The killer application of Townshend is for turntables, where this matters a lot - and I’ve used them here; they’re great. I don’t really see a convincing arguments for or against with Townshend applied to speakers, though I know they push hard for this in their marketing. Frankly, I’m not putting tall & heavy speakers on springs no matter what they say. 

Meanwhile, Magico is pushing constrained layer damping’s ability to convert vibration energy into heat. But has there EVER been any study into how effective this actually is? What % gets converted to heat before it passes through the interface ONE TIME (not "many" times, as that’s too late)? I’m skeptical that this is very much at all, and that effective isolation is about redirecting energy much more than it is about conversion into heat (I'm sure their feet achieve redirection too, at least for some frequencies).

I may be an outlier here but I have tried isolation platforms under my speakers, more than one pair, and can't say that I have ever heard a noticeable improvement in sound.  For me, it has always begged the question, if putting your speakers on platforms was the way to go, then why don't all the high end speakers come with isolation platforms from the factory?   You spend $50,000 on a set of speakers but they don't really sound their best until you spend another $5000 on a pair of Townsend Platforms?  How much of our hobby is science and how much is just Kool Aid?  Fair to say in this hobby, you'll never go thirsty. 🤣

@bigtwin 

Great question. I do not understand why a speaker costing many tens of thousands sounds so much better with Townshend Podiums, they just do for the vast majority of people. It is because of the vibration isolation and reduction. But that is as far as I can tell.

Why don't speaker manufacturers incorporate them... another good question. However, if you measure or watch the video on Townshend's site you can see the difference in vibration. 

I actually started my most recent investigation into vibration by installing and seismograph in my home (on the same slab of concrete as are my speakers) and the vibrations are very surprising and consistent with changes in sound quality at night and on weekends. Also, I can see the effects vibrations transmitted to the speakers and the dampening of the Townshend podiums. I can hear the very obvious improvement. So, at least for me not Kool Aid. 

I may be an outlier here but I have tried isolation platforms under my speakers, more than one pair, and can't say that I have ever heard a noticeable improvement in sound.  For me, it has always begged the question, if putting your speakers on platforms was the way to go, then why don't all the high end speakers come with isolation platforms from the factory? 

@bigtwin  I share your skepticism. Haven't tried the Townshends to be fair, but have tried ISOAcoustics Gaias - and it was simply a waste of time & money, here. Makes it hard to move speakers around, too. Others rave about them - especially  paired to my Tannoys. I now use Herbie's gliders on some of my sets - not for sound quality improvements (becasue there is none I discern) but for the great convenience of being able to slide speakers easily. 

But to each their own - I engage in many aspects of this hobby that read like pure Kool-aid / Snake Oil to many others.

Magico Pods retail for $1950 per their website. https://store.magicoaudio.com/pod/magico-a-pod

You would think a company like Magico would be testing different footers and the like isolation devices. I'd be sticking with the M pods myself

 Put your $$$ maybe into a new power cord. I'm saving up for the Furutech Project V1, once heard I can't get the sound out of my memory and at my age that's no small feat.

You spend $50,000 on a set of speakers but they don't really sound their best until you spend another $5000 on a pair of Townsend Platforms?  How much of our hobby is science and how much is just Kool Aid?  Fair to say in this hobby, you'll never go thirsty. 🤣

The JBL Project K2-S9500 Introduced in 1989 cost $30000, a pair new and came with concrete platforms. I guess it depends on what speakers you buy and the manufacturer! See here.

Mike

Weird. Posts saying isolation on speakers don't make a difference. It does on mine. Actually isolation under most of my components make a significant difference.  I guess this discussion is no different than the ones about cables and fuses... Everything makes a difference in my house of stereo.

@ghdprentice George, I likewise have my speakers resting on a concrete slab (wood flooring on top). I am being inspired by you to consider installing a seismometer on my floor for vibration monitoring! I should try vibration control here, though the Townsends are pricey for me. I do use Stillpoints underneath my electronics. 

This 2022 study by a professional audio engineer specifically regards the efficacy of spikes as a loudspeaker isolation device, however, the study includes tests, measurements, and graphs illustrating a number of findings that are broadly relevant to this discussion:

Ten Misconceptions about Loudspeaker Spikes

@jallan 

Join the network!

https://raspberryshake.org

Not only do you get to monitor your own environment. But you join thousands of other siesmographs and can track events from seismograph to seismograph. Great tools are included. 

 

A Manufacturer usually had a Sales Spiel and Makes Claims for a Product being quite suitable for a Particular Role.

I have a Analogue Source > Range of Phonostages Options and furthest Downstream I have ESL Speakers and a Selection of Cabinet Speakers to use in a variety of configurations.

For the Analogue Source currently used, I moved on from AT 616 Pneumatic Separators to SolidTech 'Feet of Silence' as the Top Tier of Separators in contact with the TT Plinth.

 AT 616 Pneumatic Separators are also used under Cabinet Speakers as the Top Tier on Sub Support Assembly.

I am a user of a Product that is being made known can be easily identified and sourced as a purchase if wanted, I had no complication buying both types and one type I have purchased on a few occasions to increase the qty owned.

I have no vested interest in any product mentioned, and no communication with any commercial entity that makes these products available. 

My attraction to a Product is made known as a result of an experience had and an impression made, I have nothing for sale or nothing to be offered to me as a gratuity for encouraging a sale.

My reports are not related in any way to Puffery and are certainly not Shilling.

When an individual is making inroads to finding ways to manage Migrating Amplitude and is buying into products where an outcome is that a discovery is  something that has a impact on the End Sound experienced that is perceived as a Betterment in their unique environment and formed space for Kinetic Energy to move in. When taking the time to be helpful and make a report to others with inquiries, where does the misinforming come into it.  

When others do similar, and are with sound experiences in assessing sound, in a report made, where does the misinforming come into it.        

My experiences, as a result of loaning Separation Devices into a range of systems has led me to the place, where I am convinced there is not a ubiquitous methodology to Tame Amplitude in a Particular Environment and Space.

I am friends with quite a few who use Townsend - Gaia - Stack Audio 50 > 70.

Through association I know even more who use Townsend - Gaia.

I would not suggest to any, they may have an ancillary used as a Separator that is not a benefit to the End Sound produced in their Environment and Space for listening to replayed recorded music.   

As usual don't know what the F pindic is saying! Oh well.

@ghdprentice Thanks for the link! I checked it out, I have a few seismologist friends in the area I will ping on (fellow Geological Society of Washington members). 

Furutech Project V1 this as a suggestion as a Purchase is is the purest of 'Puffery'.

For myself it takes months of being able to regularly experience a device before a assessment of an item for its real Value, and gives confidence it is worthwhile mentioning as a consideration. I doubt very much this has occurred in relation to the V1, with the limited info made available, it is very easy to assume the item has been in earshot for a short period of time in a unfamiliar system, hence the Puffery associated with the suggestion being very relevant. 

I myself have been making it known I am an advocate of using D.U.C.C Wire - PC Triple C - PC Triple C / EX for certain roles in the home audio system for many years. 

The Wire used within the Cable is a substantial Influence. How the Cable is structured is a way for a Manufacturer to add substantial cost to a Wire that can be costed as a base material very cheaply. The Wire being used to produce a very affordable Cable and then compared to a very expensive Cable using the same Wire, does not create a comparison that results in a outcome where differences are easily discerned. The most discernible differences begin to manifest when the Cables being compared Terminations / Connector Types are undergoing exchanges to introduce various types, this is where the separation in impression made really reveals itself.

To evaluate Cables, requires a system to be used that is very familiar to the individual doing an assessment, it requires comparison and revisits to a comparison, and revisits to different preferred product over a course of months to finalise the assessment. 

The outcome of a Cable assessment means one thing, the findings are only discovered on a particular system, will the results of such investigation be an outcome that is ubiquitous - No!!!       

@rsf507 

Most confounding is the seemingly random use of Capitalization.

(I think it may be a secret code of some sort.)

 

The Moderators are yet to inform me after quite a few posts, that a Writing Style that includes blend of RCA and EA are not to be tolerated.

Maybe because Moderators are with a little Savvy and understand their are alternate and accepted writing methods to what is deemed Correct Grammar.

I keep no secret on the Gon, that I write with the non contributor and non member in mind. Regular Participating Forum Members are seemingly set in their ways, ego is a wonderful thing. The common drum beat being that uber outlays of monies fixes audio annoyances.

With humour in mind as I write , if WTF is a reaction to a read, I am on the ball with the intention. The non-Contributor and non-Member will be well informed through a broadening of presented options, that there is a way to experience audio without taking on a second Mortgage or Cancelling a Family Holiday.

Today the Gon's Participant Members - non-Participant Members - Visitors Looking In are to be given a briefing about Power Cables, with the Info to be shared being a sample of what is available and is as an info leaning towards the Latter two of the three users of the Gon referred to.

Power Cables 

Some Power Cables commonly abbreviated as (PC) are to be found supplied with a New Purchase Audio Device.

There are also PC's that are able to be bought as a unterminated Cable in a length that suit the Buyer.

Unterminated Cable can be Terminated with Connectors usually at one End a IEC Connector and at the Other a Connector that Interfaces with the Main Power Supply. This could be a Commonly seen Pinned Plug compatible with a Countries Requirement or it could be Terminated in the lesser common seen method whare it is connected into a Panel.

Depending on choice of connections will determine the Base Line cost for the PC, with out going too over board, a $5-$15 per metre Cable can quite easily become a $50-$150 per metre PC depending on the connectors selected.

Today PC's are found with different structures, i.e. Wire Type, Dielectric, Shielding, Sheathing. 

PC can be found as a Cable Only, with a selection of state of the art inclusions in relation to the above structures, that are to cost somewhere between $50 - $200 per metre.

Note: Some are offering PC in 0.5 metre increments as the Basic Sale Length.

If a experienced producer of Cables, who had discovered a Termination Type that worked very well in their own system was to produce a Cable with a D.U.C.C Wire or a PC Triple C Wire and Terminations using Good Quality Solid Copper Connections . A PC produced at the $300 - $700 cost depending on Cable Length produced, would be a very strongly supported suggestion that a Very High Quality Cable has been produced in relation to a PC on offer as a complete Cable from a Brand known for producing Cables.

A Brand has a Overhead, A Brand to meet the Overhead and to be a sustainable Business, typically functions on High Turnover sale items having a deflated profit margin and a Low Turnover sales items having a Inflated Profit Margin (How Inflated Is ????)

A Brand can quite easily produce a PC that can be acquired as an entry level item r $100 (Possible Cost to the Brand $20ish)      

A Brand can quite easily produce a PC that can be acquired as an upper level design where items range from $300 - $1000 (Possible Cost to the Brand $70ish - $200ish)     

A Brand can quite easily produce a PC that can be acquired as the upper most  level for a design where items range from $5K - $10K (Possible Cost to the Brand $500ish - $1Kish - Additional Labour Costs might push these a Little Higher)

In relation to learning about the effectiveness of a PC when added to device used in a audio system there is much more chance a Cheaper PC as a Cable Only or a Lower Model in a Brands range of PC's are going to get the most reports and info supplied. As they fall into the able to be purchased price of the most common users of audio systems.

Being able to receive a broad range of reports or info being supplied on a PC that is a Brands upper most level for a design, is very highly unlikely. If info is discovered the likelihood is is that it will be from very limited individuals, possibly only one, or from a group having encountered the PC in a system.

Recommending a methodology to produce a PC or to recommend a Brand and a Model from within a Brands range for an individual to acquire a PC, is thwart with offering info that will not be correct for the individual, as knowing where synergy is to be found in their system is an unknown.

The best that can be offered in all things Audio, is a supply of options for an individual making an inquiry to consider and broaden their knowledge on what can be investigated. Suggestions are King, recommendation are steering towards wasting monies, and Shilling could be the hidden agenda for the direction being given to a must make this purchase advice offered? 

Caveat Emptor is ones friend - it is a means to avoid ' Repenting At Leisure'  

Does Inflation of a Profit Margin occur. Read On.

A individual thought of as a good friend and has made it known of their ambitions to produce Audio Products for sale.

During Covid my friend ended up in communication with the Proprietor of a well known UK Audio Company that has International Sales to a Large Customer Base.

A business relationship began to develop and my friend who is not Born in GB and not too long involved in the British Audio Scene, was being informed by myself about the negatives associated with the Proprietor, there have been rumours of foul play over many years where Business has been the concern.

My friend continued with being involved, I received a Phone Call asking myself to pass on my Suppliers of PC Triple C and D.U.C.C Wire and other Wires discovered along with Fenmite. I was informed the first joint venture to produce a saleable product was to produce Interconnect Cables.

I was fully up to speed on a Interconnect Cable Costing incorporating very high quality connector in both RCA Phono and XLR and had depending on cable lengths and connector selection, finished Cables were able to be produced between £200 - £400 per Cable Pair.

My friend informed me the entry level Cables were to be costing £2K and the next level pricing was yet to be decided, the plan was to get them ready for Munich Hi End.

Does Shilling occur, in relation to the time around Covid I say yes.

The Proprietor of the above Company was given my Phone Contact, no Paper Trail for this one.

I was contacted about being sent a substantially discounted item that was most likely under discussion on most forums where a Analogue Source is the interest.

The condition was that I used it and made reports across forums about all the positives I could report on the item.

I have had only one Phone Call with this Proprietor and do not own any product they sell.

The Cables have never been produced using Wire Types through suppliers being made known by myself.

My communication with my friend had reduced in a very short time to no communications.                       

Caveat Emptor is ones friend - it is a means to avoid ' Repenting At Leisure' 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

My Monica is always at the Top '" pindac " scrolling on past is the best the Gon offers to blocking content from a member, but please Scroll on Past.

Maybe if I tweak the text and adopt the usage of the recognised writing form being StUdLyCaPs, this for of writing might convince one to not Scroll on Past 

I did a fair amount of testing with my 100 lb floor standing speakers to solve the specific bass issue I was having in my room on a suspended wood floor with carpet.  The room is treated with bass traps but the problem was the floor.  I tried the following: spikes, no spikes, "gliders", spikes on limestone platforms and no spikes on limestone platforms.  This also included various speaker let up locations.  The Townshend podiums solved my specific issue and provided additional benefits of an increased soundstage and depth as well as more pin point instrument placement.  They do wiggle a little bit if you bump them but it's minor and I never have a concern about that.  As always, your results may be different.  

@goose I fully understand your discovery made and fully get your attraction to the Townsend Product. I am familiar with them in use and have been able to discern between them being used and not being used. I am yet to be compelled to suggest the Townsends should be omitted from use.

A Product I am yet to be familiarised with and one that I know Townsend Product users have moved on to, is Stack Audio 50 or 70 Separator Models.

I can't recommend the product, I can only make an awareness that not all who O aware of having been using Townsend Products are sticking with them as a permanent used device.

Maybe Townsends for some are a trigger experience, with a outcome that is showing change and also encourages the broadening of experiences and furthering an individuals learning.

For some in their unique spaces for listening to replayed music, a better Product is discovered when broadening experiences?      

@rsf507  He is British. 

As usual don't know what the F pindic is saying! Oh well.