GeoffKait you are right for the cd untreated.... I dont doubt that....This is the reason that I am interested in this thread.... I will install in the year to come a cd player for sure … I will try your NDM then....But for lowering the noise level I had my own stones and crystals connected grid on the computer and cables and gear and electrical house cables grid,hence "all is quiet on the western front"...
Machina Dynamica New Dark Matter CD and Blu Ray tray treatment?
This is a set of adhesive-backed thin plastic pieces that one attaches to one’s transport or player disc tray. The disk rests on them during non-spin mode, but presumably don’t touch the applied thin pieces during playback mode. The company says the new Dark Matter pieces reduces background scattered light from reaching the photodetector, thereby improving performance.
Anyone tried this product? Please specify transport or player if you have and your impressions.
Anyone tried this product? Please specify transport or player if you have and your impressions.
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I speculate one reason why a lot folks gave up on CD and moved to streaming or whatever is that they couldn’t get it right and gave up in frustration, that is if they even tried. Or they like the convenience or whatever of streaming or serving or whatever. I understand that. Untreated CDs played on untreated CD players generally sound thin, bland, compressed, metallic, wiry, irritating, remote, plastic, synthetic, two-dimensional, gloopy, generic, thumpy, hard, sour, rolled off, screechy and like paper mache. I’m not trying to set the world on fire. I just want to start a flame in a few hearts. |
Red-IR and violet-UV absorptive dyes are interesting, too. And these dyes have been around like forever. My last product was a dye. There are many ways to skin a cat. The whole point is to skin it. Otherwise, it’s just a lot of talk. There’s no substitute for signal to noise ratio. - old audiophile axiom |
mahgister All this thread is interesting... I cannot try the NDM,because I dont use now a cd player... I had transfer all my cd in flac files et listen only to flac files...I keep the noise of the computer to reasonable level and the results are at my satisfaction... But all that is because on the many tweaks I implemented... >>>>One can’t help wondering, wouldn’t you have gotten better results if you had used NDM in your player when you transferred all your CDs to flac files? You would now be listening to music with better signal to noise ratio, no? |
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All this thread is interesting... I cannot try the NDM,because I dont use now a cd player... I had transfer all my cd in flac files et listen only to flac files...I keep the noise of the computer to reasonable level and the results are at my satisfaction... But all that is because on the many tweaks I implemented... I know now that tweaks are more important if you had vintage gear or medium hi fi gear than buying some other piece of mid-fi gear...Installing the room is more important and tweaks to the final results...It is my experience... Then I am interested by non orthodox tweaks...Very interesting OP and thread... |
I have not. That is why, despite having doubts, I abstain from saying it does not work. I barely have any CD around (I keep two CDs and three SACDs, in case I ever want to check if my player still works) so it is all theoretical reading for me. Somehow, discussion about the properties of plants seems more reasonable and useful than coloring CDs so I have been following it with more interest. |
Can we have pop quiz about obvious reasons? "I also sold a set of various color pens for coloring the CD, including the data side; that product has also been discontinued for obvious reasons."I am torn between "CDs are becoming irrelevant so market is shrinking" and "Staples stopped carrying them". The latest posts on botanics have been amusing. In fact, following this thread is, sort of, pleasant. Gold stars for geoffkait and celander. |
For a quick summary, since I have been instructed by carp not to be windy or hijacky :) The fact alone that Geoff is looking at possible effects on the audio signal is one that should be recognized. My review was going to turn to how even though Geoff does not have an in-room system he has an awareness of the possibilities in audio. As well even if Geoff has his own style of presenting, don't we all. Aren't we all looking to the explaining of audio in a way that makes sense to us? I like sticking closely to the fundamental forces and labs that support them as well as finding things that possibly have reached beyond what has been texted booked up till now. This is how I view Geoff. In my mind I have to separate what I read him saying, what I have studied and focus on what I am experiencing. In the end is what I experience and how I see it fitting into our listening lives in a positive way. Can you use NDM in a positive way? In my book you can. Will it work for everyone in a positive way? I have no problem with everyone in the hobby buying some and trying it for themselves. If NDM does something you needed done, good investment, if not then you will add to the experienced collective list. have a great weekend Michael Green |
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@celander It won’t do much for a mediocre system or one with mistakes in it. I never said it would. It’s not a silver bullet. I never claimed it was a panacea. Please don’t put words in my mouth. NDM is the first audio product to address this issue with the scattered light comprehensively. Hey, here’s an idea for you - try rubbing some plants on your CDs and see how that works out for you. 😁 |
Mike-So I’m the bad guy? Like I have some kind of power over you or anyone to post here or not. Mike’s reputation precedes him. And that is to say little about the thread, but a lot about himself and what he does. And given the evidence of part two and three of his SEVERAL parts, that’s where it was heading.That is how I see it. I promise I shall not use my superpower of post prevention on Mike or anyone else. So, you’re all now safe from harm and free to post to your heart’s content. |
NDM part 4 Practical Application From what I have discovered so far NDM is not a one size fits all tweak nor is it an exclusive tweak. At first I tried one CDP type to experiment with, so I could find a pattern of placement that worked best for me. I went from full size down to 1/8" slices before I found the most entertaining setting. On the down side NDM for me took away from the fullest of soundstaging, on the up side you're able to play with some soundstage tightening. If you're after a lower noise floor and willing to loose some of the stage side this is doable. It has a slightly similar sound to mu-metal transformer shielding. It's a quieter sound, a little too dark for me personally but I know many who like this type of sound, especially if they have unruly CD problems. It's a musical taste that bigger soundstagers may not be crazy about, but for the mid size stage guy who is finding CDs bright this is a possible go to. I will be doing more on NDM if I get more but have run out of usable pieces. Running out of pieces I did go get some similar looking plastic and found the performance to be along the same line, so maybe Geoff will be offering several types for different types of performance wants. Michael Green thank you Geoff, it was fun |
NDM part 3 Rationale Up till now you're probably wondering if MG is about to bash NDM. If that were the case I would publish nothing at all. Bashing a product does no one any good. Geoff took the time to make and supply NDM for us to explore and that can't be faulted. Guys out there are making way overbuilt chassis and charging a fortune, why can't Geoff make less expensive tweaks? I'd much rather invest in NDM than boat anchor audio. Sorry if that offends, but making and selling ultimate buck amps that now can be easily out performed by amps costing pennies is close to being criminal. Tweaks offer a choice in sound preferences at a fraction of the cost and that's a good thing. MG |
NDM part two Technical Talk My first exposure to Geoff was on the Stereophile forum where he and May Belt were tag team partners, and not tag partners for all things positive or agreed upon sadly. Up to that point I had never been in such a combative, at times even hostile, setting in this hobby. These two are the masters of audio talk jousting. Why some of you here even enter into battles with Geoff is a mystery to me. That tech-talk battling for me ended when I asked both May and Geoff about their test labs and listening systems. May Belt all out refused to talk about any system and Geoff said he hasn't had an in-room system for many years. This for me is an automatic disqualifier. If I have a studio project I'm asked to work on and I show up at the engineers place and it's an empty room, no studio, no artist, it's going to be a short recording session. For me tech talk is accompanied by a lab. If I'm talking to Bob Hodas for example we have a testing computer lab, a system and reviewer taking notes, charts and pictures to document. If I'm in my studio, I have my live room, control room, playback reference room and mastering room. Practical application for me rules supreme. So I need you guys to understand that when Geoff uses LIGO as his main reference for isolation it doesn't go very far with me. LIGO studies vibratory structure and supports the opposite from isolation. So Geoff on my tech-tech grading scale is not exactly existent. MG |
And you have the attitude to go with it. 😁 You mean the absorption spectrum for phytochrome on this page? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytochrome |
Hi All part one NDM A while ago Geoff was kind enough to send me some NDM for review. I was excited to get the product as this was the first review item I ever received from Geoff directly. Other product of his have been in some of the systems of some of my clients and I got to preview them there. I didn’t know who Geoff was when I previewed some of his goods before, so this time around was more meaningful. First off I want to start by saying, I would have needed about 10 kits to do a full reviewing. I think the main question on everyone’s mind is "does this work"? And from this empirical tester the answer is yes. Does the product work the way Geoff describes it working? I really don’t care. I deal with so many audiophile-ish descriptions that come from directly quoting wiki or other internet sites that for me actually doing for yourself makes things more practically acceptable and less fluff. I am hands and ears on and the rest of this stuff is being studied by professionals in labs with qualified testing equipment and years of experience, so they to me are the go to folks for the technical explanation side of things. Audiophiles sitting at their test benches are cute, but that’s about it when it comes to the real deal in tech talk. I’m breaking this up in several posts. MG |
The violet / UV sensitive stuff is not phytochromes. ”Phytochromes are a class of photoreceptor in plants, bacteria and fungi use to detect light. They are sensitive to light in the red and far-red region of the visible spectrum and can be classed as either Type I, which are activated by far-red light, or Type II that are activated by red light.[2] Other plant photoreceptors include cryptochromes and phototropins, which respond to blueand ultraviolet-A light and UVR8, which is sensitive to ultraviolet-B light.“ |
Uh, oh, partial credit alert! 🚨 Yellow will only absorb violet light. Complementary colors only apply to visible colors. That’s kind of the whole problem. There are no complementary colors for invisible light. See if you can guess what will absorb both the visible violet scattered light and the invisible scattered light in that general vicinity. |
There is no doubt that changing the amount of light detected by the sensor can affect the sensor's output. I'll leave it up to the tweakers so inclined to determine what works best for them. If Geoff's approach floats their boat, they might want to also consider a teleportation tweak or two, if still available! |
My previous two products, Codename Turquoise and Dark Matter (Emerald Green Liquid that was also very hush hush) absorb visible red and invisible near infrared light, respectively. They have been replaced by New Dark Matter. I also sold a set of various color pens for coloring the CD, including the data side; that product has also been discontinued for obvious reasons. pop quiz: Turquoise (Cyan) absorbs the visible color red. What color should be used for a Blu Ray player. Free NDM to first correct answer. |
The facts that (1) there’s a threshold of detection for the photodector and that (2) the Red Book committee hired “coding experts” Reed and Solomon, a couple of older conservative types, to come up with some hairy far out error detection/correction codes leads me to believe the original designers knew of this design flaw - scattered background light - but chose to ignore it and cover it up. Another possibility is the reason for the detection threshold was because they knew the light wave cancellation when the laser beam was over a “pit” was not always absolute, that some light would be returned. Or, it’s possible they were just plain ignorant of the problem. |