"What Consumer dreams of imposing a Single Audio Format Monopoly on all other Consumers."
Answer - none that I have come across.
"It is not like the Manufacturer's will be sharing their sharply increased Profits with you, they will be keeping those. You are a Consumer. They are Sharks in a Feeding Frenzy, and you are the Bait."
Again, if there is profit to be made, product will be made. Nothing is new here. Industry, including the recording industry, has been made up of sharks for centuries. Human nature, free enterprise, market forces etc. Get a grip - this is nothing new. It has nothing to do with computer audio or any other format. Sounds to me like your latest beef is with capitalist society in general.
So, let me get this straight - I shouldn't buy a toaster because the manufacturer is absolutely swimming in profits? They're not sharing these profits with me, I am the Consumer!!! |
Monopolies stress me out- Hfisher3380! What Consumer dreams
of imposing a Single Audio Format Monopoly on all other
Consumers. It is not like the Manufacturer's will be sharing their sharply increased Profits with you, they will be keeping those. You are a Consumer. They are Sharks in a Feeding Frenzy, and you are the Bait. You think that you are going to get "Chummy" with the Sharks? You think feeding the rest of us Consumers to this Feeding Frenzy,
somehow makes you our friends? Think that this will save you- these are "SHARKS"! They are not looking out for you! |
Petty, I seriously think you need to give up this audio hobby, sounds like it's stressing you out too much... |
Original Topic of this Thread- Mach2Music and Amarra: Huge
disappointment.
"Soon all New Music will only be available as Music
Downloads". This is a shot across the bow of any other
Audio Format. Audio Engineer talks about Computer Audio even replacing Vinyl. All of this talk about Impending
Doom, and replacing everything with Computer Audio. Why
this negative naked agression from Computer Audio supporters against all other Audio Formats? I would just
assume that nothing has to replace anything, let everyone
alone to just enjoy their own Format. First these impending
Doom, shot across the bow, take no prisoners, overt
aggressive statements against all other Audio Formats.
Then it's "There is nothing wrong with listening to CD's.
It's all OK". You guy's are all over the map with this.
First the extreme aggresiveness shot across the bow, then
the passive "We don't care what you listen to". When I hear
cannon shot across the bow of my Audio Format, I stand up and pay attention. You are firing the first shot here
against other Formats. How about taking a little respondsibility for that! No one likes being shot at, nor
having their Audio Format shot at either. Just about
anyone is going to return the favor with a broadside, just
so they don't look weak! You go looking for a fight, find one, then act like "Holier Than Thou". I don't think you really know what you want! I expect choices from any Market,or I don't buy it! What, I am only going to be able to buy a car from only one Car Manufacturer? I am only going to be able to buy from one Audio Format- Computer
Audio? Nobody would tolerate this same standard for any
Market- it would be Consumer Suicide without competition.
Cut off your face to spite your nose, why work so hard at
this? |
Can whoever posts next have the common respect to check whether his ramblings in any way, shape or form relate to the original topic of this thread? |
Pettyofficer,
The CD player was built for you. Toss everything else and use the CD player. There is nothing wrong with listening to CD's. It's all OK. |
Wow - North Korean concentration camps, Mobs, stray bullets. Them's fighting words!
Petty, it's very simple. Either you adopt computer audio or you don't - if you don't then that's fine. It doesn't matter what your reasoning is. Honestly, it almost sounds like you are trying to rationalize your choice. Believe it or not we don't care what your opinion is, it's just annoying to be accused of ruining music as we know it.
As I stated in the other thread, show me the proof. Where are these ultimatums? The people trying to wipe out all other formats? Where are they? Who are they? Let me take care of them for you so you can sleep at night! |
Pettyofficer,
I'd hate to be around you if there was a real problem.
Simple steps. Take the advice, implement it & never touch the computer again. Just select the album/track & play. No pain no gain like all hifi.
Just set it up my friend. In the time it has taken you to post your various complaints here, I would have had your computer up & running. You would be enjoying music, browsing the artwork & admiring your music collection while listening to pristine audio.
Buy a server if you cannot stomach a computer. Pay a small child to input all your CDs & meta data. Then you will be finished. For the rest of your days, no matter what changes in tech, you will have your library in a standard format ready to be added.
Back up & you will never lose anything... Unless the sun spots really kick off. If that happens playing music will probably be the last thing on your mind. |
Computers are clunky Period, with File Fragmentation, Hard
Drive Errors, Hard Drive Crashes, Back-up Hard Drive
Crashes...etc. Of course Mac's require less maintenance; But I have never had to defrag a CD, nor had a Hard Drive
error on one. CD's are more reliable without requiring
"ANY" Software. You damage a CD you lose an Album, you damage a Hard Drive and lose your entire collection of Music. This is a pain in the Ass! Some want to tinker with
Software for their Music, some of us just want to cut thru
this B.S. and go straight for the Music. No ripping, Software anything- just straight simple Plug-N-Play. I see
no necessity that anything replace anything, especially
when an Audio Market has a real need for both- many like it
that way! It gives Consumers choices- and we detest anyone
giving us Ultimatums to remove our choices. There will always be an Audio Market for Plug-N-Play. Compared to CD,
Computer Audio ain't it- it is that simple! We can have
both, it is you with the Ultimatums of Impending Doom (One
size fits all) from Computer Audio squeezing everything else out. It sounds like the MOB taking over the Audio Market, with the militant attitude of Computer Audio Supporters as enforcers. Well, there goes the Audio Market
Neighborhood! It used to be a nice place, now stray bullets everywhere. |
Pettyofficer,
I used a PC yesterday to playback some stuff, & I must admit it
was a pain in the ass. As I nearly always use my mac controlled via iPad
it was a very different experience. No where near the delightful experience of choosing which album to play.
So I am with you to a point. But as I keep labouring, get a mac. It just doesn't need all the knowledge & fine set up. PCs are clunky for life style use. Somehow macs are much less so.
I did the set up & now I just play music. It hardly ever dawns on my that I'm using a computer. I just see the art work on the iPad & select. |
Talk2me,
as you went to all the trouble of getting your wadia modified, obviously even Wadia were not good enough for you. I had a statement wadia with full GNSC mods too. It was eclipsed by my multibox DCS which was the same as my computer with Amarra/FireWire into Wiess DAC. If anything the computer had better dynamics.
So if you are saying they cannot compete, you need to go and look again.
Why on earth would you be using jittery toslink? That alone will be half the problem. I seem to remember there was a issue with MacBook and which USB port is used. Could be the old ones.
You go on about your GNC mods, but then made no effort to use decent software on the computer or a better quality connection to the DAC. If you want to compare apples with apples a little more effort is needed.
I keep saying set up is everything but no one is listening. You want to listen to green pens and CD mats, but when it comes to a computer you cannot even download some playback software to try.
Its easy. Keep away from PCs and use a mac. PCs take more effort. Macs are easier to deal with. Keep audio as Aiffs with no compression( it keeps meta data in its file). Use FW port. Use bolt on output for iTunes I.e Amarra/ Puremusic etc. use decent FW cable. Keep computer power separated from system. Buy great DAC. Then you have a hope of decent sound. |
Shortcut Computer Audio Style: Pick two points, start a line and head westward circumnavigating the Globe, come
around to the second point only 1 inch from the first
point. CD: jump the one inch! Bypass: Wasapi, Kernel Streaming, Hard Drive Errors, File Fragmentation, Meta
Data, Hard Drive Crash, Back-up Hard Drive Crash, Computer
Viruses, Three hour High Rez. Downloads, Ripping Software,
Media Player Software, Configuration of both, and endless
amount of time and tasking to handle "ALL" of these. It is like going to the Moon via Mars, are we lost here? Reasonable question before dumping a 1,000 times more tasking on us, as a replacement for simple plug-n-play CD?
Why do we need the 50th extra Wheels required for Computer
Audio? Because a CD is too heavy for you? Simple- I want
Music, not to have to decode the "Matrix" to get it! Your
Computer Audio is just getting in my way of my Music in a
big way! Add more steps, run more interference, "WHY"? |
Pettofficer,
You are probably right. I must be some kind of digital single processor goth as I thought that was funny. Computer music has finally crushed that last bit of hope out of me.
In fact now you mention it I just realised I am a machine. Not the HAL9000 Dave disliking type, more "The hitch hikers guide to the galaxy" Robot type...Marvin. And in a kind of Apple mac silver finish. Only my ASIO dithers all high sample rates to really low bandwidths. I always wished for an old anologue circuit to give me meaning.
Step away from the magnets! It's ok though. I was cheap, downloadable & very convenient.
I burned my CDs, and I love the smell of charred CDs in the morning. |
Huh?? This response does not compute... |
I use a MacbookPro with ugraded GB and Decibel with usb and glass toslink cables. It sounds pretty good with HD Tracks and iTunes. However, in now way shape or form can it compete with my GNSC modded Wadia S7i. Computer audio is way over hyped by mid-fi owners and those making a loving off of cumputer audio.And to those who think silver disks are going away anytime soon, get a life. |
I was hoping for some comedic uplift, all that I got from
your response was pathetic apathy. Is that why you listen to Music, to make you feel more apathetic? Is that some new
Goth thing that comes with Computer Audio? You're buying
HAL, or SKYNET for your Audio to get your Goth on? Are you
becoming a machine listening to another machine produce
Computer Audio Music? Shoot, who would want to pass an
opportunity like that up? Burn them CDs, "BURN EM"! I want
to become a machine too-"NOT"!!! |
Lol. Pettyofficer,
There is no new sample rate every week. They are fixed. As explained above the best you will find will be 24/192k. Not that new. Nearly all DAC chips made in the last few years are really for video. So all will be more than capable of these rates.
Wipe a magnet across your drive? You just happened to trip over while carrying powerful magnets?
Maybe if you are accident prone, put your HD in a lead box or even better back up to a cloud & keep other back ups at friends houses.(ones who don't play with magnets regularly). So you will have many eggs in many baskets with no magnets. Did you have that problem with cassette? What about vinyl? Did it ever scratch or break when you dropped those magnets? What about your CDs? Ever misplace one?
Keep your lovely CDs. No one is forcing you to destroy them. Although I am surprised you don't resent them for making all those millions of $ for the record companies. Go out on the street & shout "down with profit we want it free or real cheap! "
Heart and soul hahahaha. The music industry heart & soul? The minute every artist you have heard signed the deal it was business. They got around 30% after all costs were paid back to the record company while 15-20% went to managers/lawyers. Then the record companies waved royalties for the writers for MTV to make millions. Heart and soul indeed.
Also since you seem concerned about giving money away you should consider moving away from a capitolist society. All those millions of $ keep people employed. Well millions in Asia anyway! New sample rates? You are funny. It must be living with all those magnets. Don't even get me started on those sun spots... Run Pettyofficer run! There is cover in the caves. |
You listed all of those Sampling Rates, did you see the list? Not all of those Sampling Rates were created at the same time, neither is that the end of the "New Sampling Rate of the Week". As far as conversion is concerned, I
don't see the Software Conversion keeping up with a "New
Sampling Rate of the Week"! How can it? You have a train
wreck of a mess for an endless open ended Format that no
one can plan ahead for, more or less afford. Convenient for
profiteers, born on the backs of poor smuck Consumers.
Never needed Wasapi, Kernel Streaming, or ASIO for CD
Playback. Never had a problem with Computer Virus, Hard
Drive Errors, Fragmentation, Hard Drive Crash, Back-up Hard
Drive Crash for CD Playback. Never needed Meta Data, Music
File Type, Three hour Download, Ripping Software, Setting
Configuration of Media Player for CD Playback. I can drag
a powerful magnet across a CD with no ill effect. Even if it did it would still be only one damaged Disk. Do the same
to your Computer and wipe out 2,000 or more Music Files.
You are creating the ultimate every egg in the universe being placed in the largest basket. Basket fall down and go
BOOM! Pieces of Music File everywhere. Never a problem with
CD; but, now you want everyone to give up CD, and pay through the nose for all of the problems listed above. What
does the word "THRIFT" mean to you other than billionare
Computer Manufacturers making tens of billions? Hundreds of
billions? Again your math is a little off, because that huge amount of money isn't born in a vacuum. It is born off of our backs, and we will suffer because of it. Atleast
don't take our Music away by pulling plug on all other
Audio Formats! Have a Heart, a Soul would be nice too! |
And I've been using the same 24/192 audio interface since 2004...you don't need one "every few weeks" pettyofficer. |
So the original poster never even came back ONCE after all these responses? Gotta love it. |
Pettyofficer,
"Not so fast, Chadeffect. You still need an additional DAC
to convert 16/44, 24/44, 24/48, 24/88, 24/96, 24/176,
24/192, 24/196, and we all know 32 bit Music Files..."
No you dont need an additional DAC. All DACs will do pretty much all those rates today. If not convert the file to your DACs capability. Keep your money.
If its a choice between eating & highend audio, you had better eat and not worry about sample rates...
As I told you earlier in above posts. You do not need the latest DAC. All reasonably modern DACs can do what you need. And there are plenty of "cheap" DACs which are more than capable.
Will you really feel left out if you have to convert some crazily high sample rate to a more usable 44.1/88.2/96/192k? Will you start crying because you cannot playback 32 bit recordings when you can't afford bread to eat?
Please get a grip. You will always be able to convert files to what you need while keeping the original. Don't give any guys your money. Please eat.
But if you have enough money to eat & wish to spend on highend audio, a decent DAC giving you mind boggling quality can be 'cheap'. Espacially in a world full of people trying to sell you $100,000 speakers or $4,000 anti vibration platforms or $13,000 inter connects.
Take the fact that whatever happens now we are dealing with files. Not tapes or whatever that need specific hardware to play them. Unlike those out of date those tape machines (DATs/DCC/Minidisk/Tape decks,reel to reels etc) which are now door stops or quaint memories, you can turn your file into what you need for your DAC to process. Be it 16 bit,24 bit,32 bit or 64 bit. You choose.
Is this clear Petty? Your worst case sample rate is 16 bit. It's seems you are happy playing CDs at that.
I can tell you it will be a long while before you see real 32 bit music. The pro audio recording standard DACs are hardly there yet. They are nearly all 24 bit 192k capable with most set to record at 24 bit and 44.1 or 96k.
Unless you really want to record at 192k as an artist, which would limit a lot of the processing capabilities of the studio, it will be the above rates. I know of few studio effects processors that can do real 192k processing. The effects will dither it then bring it back up unless going analogue. So pointless. Obviously acoustic recordings like orchestras would not need the effects processing so are more likely to be true 192k. |
I want to hire Pettyofficer and Chadeffect to design the next best computer audio system. What kind of funding do you guys need? |
Not so fast, Chadeffect. You still need an additional DAC
to convert 16/44, 24/44, 24/48, 24/88, 24/96, 24/176,
24/192, 24/196, and we all know 32 bit Music Files are
just around the corner. How many more new DACs do we need for how many more new Sampling Rates every two weeks? Who
makes the big bucks off of this? Do they make the big bucks
in a vacuum? Who then loses the big bucks? You do,
Chadeffect, and anyone else who follows this insane path to
emptying their wallet. Not good when you have to pay for
gasoline, and food in this economy. Are you understanding
the point yet? You have to be able to add to understand the point. I think you can, I just believe that you want to
conveniently avoid the math. Your Computer Audio maybe fluid; But, peoples money, and their income are not! There
is a disconnection there, and people will feel that sting
with an expensive fluid Computer Audio Format. People react
differently after they get stung! They lose the love for the New Format real fast! Fix this, or don't- I don't care
anymore. |
Pettyofficer,
You have inadvertently made my point for me. I am trying to get you to understand that today, unlike before, the hardware is irrelevant to you being able to play the software. Can you see that a computer no matter how old will always play a wav/aiff/flac/mp3/mp4 etc?
You do not need the latest and greatest computer to process a simple 2 channel audio file. Are you understanding the point yet? You can keep your money. |
What is the longest you have ever kept an important piece
of Computer Gear- 6 Months? Surely after that amount of
time the latest this or that will have tranced what went
before. Nothing lasts forever.
I do believe that cassettes, Reel to Reels, DAT, DCC
...etc, were Formats that lasted a little longer than just
two weeks. Does it make any sense that they would only last
for that short period of time? No one could possibly afford that level of fluidity. Why are we being forced to
pay for that level of fluidity now? Excuse me, why allow
ourselves to be forced to pay for this "AFTER" all other
Audio Formats are replaced? Have you seen the price of
Gasoline/Food recently? Who can afford the high cost of a Fluid Format in this economy? I mean besides those standing to make huge profits off of our backs selling
high cost rapid Fluid Audio Formats! Tell me exactly who it is that I am supposed to be making rich here. Billionares haven't got enough? Are you trying to spread their "LOVE"? Think that they "LOVE" you? Surely then, they
will be sending some of their PROFITS your way- Yes, No?
Do they love Music or Profits more? Care to guess? Why not
just give them your money for free, I am sure they will
appreciate it! Still,you demand the rest of us do the same! |
Pettyofficer,
The recording is what's important. The sample rate is a bonus. You will always be able to play or convert to what you need. I doubt you will be crying too much if you had to down sample a 374k to a 192k file until you save up for whatever magical DAC comes along with silly sample rate abilities.
What is the longest you have kept an important piece of Hifi gear for? 10-15 years? Surely after that amount of time the latest this or that will have tranced what went before. Nothing lasts forever.
Would you prefer we stick with cassette, reel to reel,DAT, DCC etc? Like I said before you can keep the model T Ford. Fluid is good. At least now it's just a file on a computer. |
You seem to be missing the point, Chadeffect. You can't
have a completely fluid Audio Format still in development,
ready to replace all other Audio Formats yesterday!
Someone will lose their Music, because there is no common sense transition. There is also no way to plan ahead, and
predict for a High End Stereo System. Do we just keep on buying New DAC's every few weeks as additional Sampling
Rates are created? Some of our most favorite Music might only be available as the "Sampling Rate of the Week". We
end up being held hostage to this, or lose our favorite
Music. Extorted to buy New Equipment/DAC every week,
someone certainly stands to make alot of money off of our
misery- if not our empty wallets. This will certainly come to pass if all other Audio Formats are eliminated. Eliminating choices for the Consumer (Monopolizing) is never any good for the Consumer. More like feeding us to the Lions! CONVENIENT? HOW? If I am going to get consumed,
instead of being the Consumer, I would prefer that it not
happen by the Ocean of a Fluid Audio Format! Do I have no
choice in this matter either? |
Pettyofficer,
Surely you know why MP3s exist? Remember Flac/aiff/wav? Have you forgotten these files are capable of way above CD quality?
This is the point. Choice. You choose. If you want audiophile you can have it. If you want to fit as many songs as possible & are not bothered about the quality you have mp3. You just choose.
The beauty is all formats are supported. It seems you are still failing to take in the above posts.
Regarding computer support, I have said earlier try a mac. If you have a problem just pop into the store & get all the support you could wish for. They will even train you in how to use & get the best from your machine.
Please read the above posts before you type. |
That is just it. There is "No update on service from
Mach2music". Nor from any other Computer Audio Manufacturer. They have a tendency not to report back
to their Customers as well. That is the reason why most
of us end up here. You never wondered why we don't go to the Manufacturer's of our Computer Audio first, instead
of here? They are probably too busy playing Golf with the
Lawyers, and the Doctors. They all seem to think that they
have something in common. |
Does anyone else think that it is suspicious that the originial poster never posted again? He apparently did nothing to improve his situation and then report back? No update on service from Mach2music? |
And who, pray tell, invented lower than CD resolution
MP3? Was it you Chadeffect? Was it you Hfisher3380? Was
it you Antigrunge? Am I paranoid, or starting my own
Religion for calling out the Rocket Scientists at
Microsoft/Apple/Macintosh- for creating this abysmal
MP3? How in the hell did advanced technology back us up
to a "Model T" lower than CD resolution MP3? With this
kind of technology maybe you could eventually work your
way back to "Re-inventing the Wheel"? I call out negative
progress when I see it, not use it to replace everything
else. Certainly not worth the effort going backwards!
Computer Audio can, and will do better- unless you want it
to end up like SACD (A one night wonder- you decide this,
not me!). No more one night wonder lower than CD resolution
Formats to replace all other Formats! I demand my monies
worth in Sound Quality, because I earned my money. You say
I have to give it up to lower than CD resolution MP3, I
draw the line here! Where do you draw it, or do you just
continue to redraw it lower and lower? |
This thread sucks! If you want to discuss religion, go elsewhere. Otherwise try and stay factual |
Hey Pettyofficer, if even a Mac is too complicated for you and you'd prefer to spend more money on a "made for audio" computer, check this out:
http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/650382
Looks like your dreams have come true!!! I think that EVEN YOU could figure out how to use it!!! No need for you to go without music when those of us adopters of this New Format (sic), Computer Audio (sic), conspire to eliminate all other Formats (sic).
You're welcome! |
Ok so not quite my last word on the subject! Thank you Pettyofficer,
Nothing is making audio irrelivant especially not me. You have been given choice these days to have everything in 1 place. Easy to control & use.
There is nothing to suggest a computer, cannot cope with processing many things. Especially something as small as processing audio. You are just plain wrong with your premiss.
We are talking about getting fine technology tuned to do what we want it to do. Maybe one OS is more stable than another or easier to use, but that's it.
You seem to have a paranoid idea that Microsoft or apple want to destroy your entertainment & make things worse. I have seen little evidence for that. I would say I have evidence it's making it better. (replacing expensive boxes while sounding even better!)
Are you the kind of guy that would go back to a model T Ford once things like the Bugatti Veyron have been invented? Or does your hair shirt just fit so well that it doesn't itch anymore?
I have not noticed technology gradually getting worse as it evolves just yet.
As a test try listening to some recordings from the 1920s & then listen to a recording from this year. Try an example from ECM. Now compare the quality. After that come back and discuss. |
Sorry Chadeffect. The only thing you are doing is making
Audio irrelevant, replacing it with Computer bells and
whistles. It won't be long before Microsoft/Apple/Mac...
etc, start to wonder why they even bother to include such
an insignificant thing like Music Audio. It just wastes
processing from other more successful/popular Programs/
toys. It is not like you, or anyone else here would
complain. Trust me, they KNOW this already. You don't really need Music Audio, or Computer Audio, or High Rez.
Downloads- do you? You will be spending all of your time
watching Movies, Playing Games, Doing your Taxes...etc.
You won't even remember what Computer Audio was...other
than drivel that was very tedious! You will be proud! |
Petty,
my last words on the subject...
A fluid format is good. It is developing & while it is developing, it still is MORE capable than any other format so far.
You do not need to do anything once you have SET UP your computer system of choice. If anything meaningful changes in the future all you will need to do is update the software.
Please read the above posts & really think about what they are saying. Stop listening to your own argument long enough to take them in.
Music is a small aspect of a much larger picture. All the arts are coming together. Film, music, photography, gaming etc will all be stored on a single system at the highest quality enabling possiblities you can only dream about now, so you better get used to an open approach. The computer will look after all the formats.
For now get yourself a Mac & bypass your current complaints about ASIO etc.
Anyway good luck. If you really actually do need some help drop me a PM. But more drivel in these threads is tedious. Sort yourself out.
Happy listening. |
Hfisher3380- there is no Audio Format that has a more
fluid Standard than Computer Audio, and you KNOW IT!
You are using "WHAT" to replace all other Audio Formats-
a high pressure Firehouse? Well, I guess that will "BLOW"
alot of people away. This is supposed to help in Sound
Quality, and Musicality- open a Firehose directly into the
ear canal point blank range? Yeah, o-kay...an Audio experience to replace all other Audio Formats. Maybe if you
reduce the fluidity, and pressure a tad more people might be more receptive to your forcefullness in Computer Audio. |
There's also no standard for turntables or CD players. The former can use all kinds of different designs - direct drive, belt drive, idler wheel, suspended sub chassis, linear tonearms, pivoted tonearms, unipivots, MM/MC cartridges...CDP employ a wide, wide range of DACs, some are balanced and others single-ended...solid state, tube, SET...box speakers, planar speakers....the list goes on and on...but no standards!
We can decide for ourselves what we think sounds good and is designed properly.
And I don't exactly see anyone here "shaming" those who don't find satisfaction in "computer audio". But you've been trying to shame us for two pages now - as if those of us who adopt this "new format" are responsible for the varying results others may obtain.
"Computer audio" is no different from any other format. It has wrinkles. It ain't perfect. Consumers will ultimately decide if it affords them something as good as or better than what they already have. In my case it is in the process of replacing my CDP because it sounds better. Others like yourself may disagree. That's the beauty of a free society, we can all choose what works for us.
Again, I would suspect not many around here really care whether you adopt "computer audio" or not. I certainly don't. But your disorganized rants are becoming tiresome. |
Pettyofficer,
any Hifi system will have variable results. Computer based or not. My understanding of your complaint is shifting slightly now over a couple of different threads.
I think your complaint still is about set up. But it's about which version of which software you can run on what operating system. If this is the issue, then I understand.
So with that in mind you fall into a couple of camps.
1 latest version of everything. So update regularly. This is easy although a pain in the butt sometimes.
2 get it all to a point where you are happy & do not update. Just enjoy.
I must admit with a PC I recommend the later point. Although keep Security updated.
The SQ differences are pretty slight once you have set up the main software issues although functionality is probably better.
Hope this helps. |
Chadeffect- does it ever occur to you that this lack of
Standard in the Operating System for Computer Audio- can
only lead to mixed results when used for High End Audio?
You are not going to win listeners that way, neither are
you gonna win by shaming those who have problems with varying S.Q. issues with Computer Audio. Since it isn't
designed for any consistency at all, how can you possibly
measure what is good, or best? I fail to see any planning
(Design) here at all! |
Hi pettyofficer,
The main reason there aren't more computers designed for music is there is no need. There are some laptops that are said to be for music, but they are only an attempt to have a built in sound card & reasonable ins & outs on the go for recording etc.
Nearly every studio I have been in uses a standard powerful mac as a brain. The converters etc are external hardware devices. I.e protools, Apogee, UAD,RME,Weiss, Prism sound, metric halo. Mainly FireWire.
Some have specially set up PCs. I use both PC & Mac.
The question should be why are there no standards in Hifi? Not just computer audio. Choice is a good thing until there is too much. Then there is only confusion.
Hifi is full of confusion due to many many opinions about what is good or best. Mainly by people who don't know what the original sound of the record they are playing actually was! So then we get into taste. Not an exact reproduction of the master.
Computers are great levellers. My computer replaced elitist über transports. I have never looked back. Just the thought of browsing through all those disks now seems so alien. Before you leap in with " oh but the SQ..." at worst it's the same and at best it's better in SQ. By "better" i mean like the master. In my case SQ is better due to this & its more convenient & its cheaper!
A great leveller... How can you complain? If you want the finest SQ with a computer based system there are just some procedures to follow. Just workout what you want in SQ. |
I'm upgrading my DAC, and have temporarily gone back to a CDP from computer based audio. My DAC (PSA Perfect Wave) handily beats my CDP (Jolida JD 100) on sonics, but I'd have to have sound on a CDP that was WAY better to contemplate a permanent return. Piles of discs: constantly changing discs, misplaced discs, damaged discs, defective discs, and (my personal favorite) broken jewel cases. I'd forgotten what a mess it is. YUK! YUK! YUK!
And did I mention, the sonics are a lot better on my astronomically more user friendly and convenient computer set up?
Take that Petty! I'm glad you're here too.:)
John |
Pettyofficer - I never claimed that we can listen to studio quality recordings in our listening room - this is not unique to computer audio nor is it a function of the hardware. Are you listening to studio quality on your turntable or CDP? Do you even have access to test pressings on these other formats? This is no more the fault of computer audio than it is the turntable or any other source.
Why don't you make similar rants against the CD format? That's an even more compromised format and should be held even more accountable by your standards.
And I'm not trying to make a believer out of your or anyone. I couldn't care less if you like computer audio or not. I'm also not one to be overly sensitive about criticisms of computer audio and will be the first to admit that it is most definitely NOT plug and play. I respect your desire for computer audio, or any format for that matter, to improve in fidelity. I just think your opinions are misguided.
If it is studio quality you desire then computer audio can certainly get you closer to that goal than can redbook CD. We can only hope that high res downloads continue to grow so we can have access to something closer to the master tape than we are afforded by CD!
I'm currently listening to a 24/96 master of the latest Dream Theater album downloaded from HDTracks and let me tell you - it absolutely kills my CD! The sound is startlingly good! |
Hfisher3380- excuse me, I stand corrected. Perhaps you can
clarify for me what DXD is? I believe it is the Format that
has been used in Mastering Studio's. I believe that it even has a higher sampling rate than SACD. Hey, my tower
only cost me $700.00. Can I still use it to mix multiple
DXD Music Files? No, something like that would cost atleast
5 digits or more. I know that it gives everyone a warm fuzzy thinking that their own home little personal Computer
is on the same playing field as the big boy's in the Mastering Studio's. Warm Fuzzies, Old Wives Tales, and the
Old Lock Ness Monster! Any consulation Hfisher3380- hey you
made a believer out of me, Nessie too! |
Once again Pettyofficer your opinions show that you just don't completely grasp the basic concepts here. Let me clarify:
(1) The computers used in recording studios are not magical in any way - they are the very computers that can be purchased from Apple, Dell etc. Yes they have way more processing power than the typical computer used in a home stereo because they are running much more complicated software. They might employ a powerful Mac tower whereas I choose to run a Mac Mini. But there is nothing stopping me from buying a big tower for my home stereo. The difference in sound quality would likely be negligible, the massive tower would look odd in my room and I'd just be wasting all that processing power. A powermac is no more "designed for audio" than is a mac mini.
(2) Yes the sound files have to pass through the computer but in a properly implemented system it only passes raw digital files from an external hard drive to the DAC. You don't need more than an optimized Mac Mini or comparable to accomplish this small task. It's all in the implementation, and this would in large part describe the varied results amongst different users. Patience and research are required to do this right - as well as a DAC capable of taking the processing out of the computer's hands and rejecting jitter.
(3) Computer audio is not really a "new format" in the strictest sense of the word. In a properly implemented system the raw files being played are no different than those on your shiny silver discs. The exception of course being high res downloads which are theoretically capable of higher fidelity than redbook spec. However, with proper implementation jitter can be reduced vs. optical systems and error correction is a non-factor by isolating the reading of the discs from the recreation of the stored sound files. |
I appreciate the kind words, Chadeffect. I do use Computer
Audio! I have had success with it in S.Q. Computer Audio
may be what Music today is actually recorded & mainly
mixed on. These are still Studio designed, your Mac Mini
not quite in the same league. It is the Personnal Computer
that is the actual funnel that this Data has to pass through. A Tool not primarily designed for Music, unlike those being used in Mastering Studio's. Where are the
Personnal Computers designed for Music, and why aren't they here? Why are there no Audio Standards to maintain
some consistency in S.Q. for personnal Computers? It is no
accident that so many have such a varied result with
Computer Audio. Would like to keep it around for awhile,
but THIS does not bode well! I think that we deserve our
money's worth out of Computer Audio, that includes actually
designing the Personnal Computer FOR Audio in Computer Audio. If this is an oxymoron New Format, forgive me! I stand corrected. I don't really think it is though! |
Personally I'm glad Pettyofficer can post his opinions & share ideas here. Many died & suffered for us to have free speech. Let's not forget that.
The problems start when no one listens to each others points & ignores the experiences of others. Especially to those who have wide experience & knowledge in these fields. There are many here.
It would seem Pettyofficer has not heard a nicely set up server system. Remember it is what music today is actually recorded & mainly mixed on!
So unlike in any other period in history, the file/format you are playing on your system is that that was recorded in the studio(as long as it is not data compressed). So this format argument is kind of irrelevant.
Surely his issue is with some dodgy DAC/amp/speaker/cables combination? Or just a love for the short comings of an old format which he has gotten used to & likes the sound of. Not the reading of the data.
If you want tips please ask, don't just say its not as good as my TT or even as good as my old CDP! The joy in this hobby is to search & experience to find the right sound for you.
Digital playback is here to stay. It can do anything you want sonically. It gets better,cheaper,smaller and more flexible by the year. What's not to love about that? Let's look forwards not backwards. If you like the past so much we can digitise it for you so you can take into the future! Lol. |
If you ignore him he will move on to something else. It's his M.O., check the threads he's posted in. |
Hfisher nailed it. optimization is the key....just like anything else audio. computer's bring another element into the equation that requires additional research/effort/work to get right. if you don't care to go there...then don't. why you would try to talk others out of it is beyond me. i just don't get it
similar to the vinyl debate....what ever floats your boat. what works for some might not be your cup-o-tea. doesn't mean anyone is wrong or right. i'm not a vinyl guy but couldn't care less if anyone else is or is not. i have no dog in these types of fights.
reminds me of the debate i had with my sister a while back. she couldn't believe that i don't like chicken. she loves it and was amazed at how i didn't. she was trying to understand why and just kept pressing me. talk about a silly conversation/debate!.
Petty....do you like chicken?? =)
cheers all |
Hfisher3380,
thanks for your comments on Pettyofficer. A forum to improve people's experience with digital audio may be a good place for him to get his kicks but he certainly is getting them at the expense of everybody. Alas, that considerate thought probably hasn't occured to him. |
