Mach2Music and Amarra: Huge disappointment. Just remember,
" Eventually all new Music will only be available via
Downloads". In other words there won't be any CD to fall
back on no matter how "Disappointed" anyone is with
Computer Audio Downloads. Computer Audio is a Format that is stuck in the rut from improvement due to the fanatism of those who over zealously protect it. It is this attitude that prevents any honest criticism, and any real desire to improve it. They make it a dead end Format. Ten years to work out the bugs, and still you get nothing; but, excuses! It is a Format whose obsessive followers have elevated it to, "Perfect Sound Forever" status! How dare anyone touch, or honesly criticise the "Precious" Computer Audio Download Format! We are supposed to train ourselves to be oblivious to its warts. For added incentive towards that goal, pull alternative Formats like SACD/ DVD Audio/ and CD. Paint the Masses into a corner by simply cutting off their options. Read that first message again, clearly it is an Ultimatum. A declaration of War on any competing Format! It is certainly NOT a joke! You WILL listen to Computer Audio Downloads only, because we are going to make sure that your favorite Music isn't available on anything else- like it or not! Get use to it- NOT!!! |
And yet the excuses keep on coming. All of this to keep
Computer Audio in the same rut it has been for last ten years. Now we are going to shoot for another ten. Why
wont anyone take Computer Audio criticizm seriously, and
correct the problems? We criticized Cassette, 8-Track,
Record, CD, SACD, and even attempted some improvement on these. We dismissed the "Perfect Sound Forever" for any
Format. Why must Computer Audio be the exception, whose
warts and unreliability remain cryogenically frozen in time? Why is everyone so terrified of better sounding
Computer Audio? Why must everyone be forced to accept
mediocrate? What to you is an Audiophile? Someone who strives for mediocratic Sound Quality for the sake of
convenience- Really? How far down must we go? Is there
a basement here somewhere that we can hit rock bottom-
or not? Who is making all of the profit from ONLY having
to produce mediocratic Sound Quality at EVERYONE ELSE'S
expense? This is a slippery slope to MP3 taking over all
New Music, because THAT is were all of the Profits are at!
You have proven that already, there is no changing anyone's
mind now! Profit/Convenience talks, and Sound Quality walks! High Rez. is a goner, because it is not as CONVENIENT to produce as lower than CD quality MP3. You want convenience, allow Record Companies to have some convenient MP3 profit at your High Rez. expense. See how you conveniently like that!!! You are steering them in the right direction- don't stop now! Maybe you could offer them
a little more money to produce something less than MP3, Don't let anyone stop you!!! |
As everyone knows, I am a Critic of Computer Audio. I know
it may seem that I want Computer Audio to fail, actually I
want Computer Audio to succeed. CD is failing, it could never stand up to Analog despite being more Convenient-
still having mediocre sound. Those that complained about
it's Sound Quality were quickly dismissed. The Market decided on the convenience and mediocre Sound Quality of CD. Now CD is a failure, and on its way out. This marketing
strategy did not succeed in the long run. Why do we want to
repeat this History with Computer Audio, going down the same road sacrificing Sound Quality for Convenience?
People, we are just going to end up exactly where we
started from- just going in circles. You want to break the
cycle, demand better Sound Quality from Computer Audio.
You deserve it, and Computer Audio might be around just a little bit longer than CD. Accept the mediocre Sound Quality of Computer Audio, and you will end up just putting another nail in it's coffin- CD all over again!
Learn from History, instead of just endlessly repeating it!
Mediocracy is the death knell of any Format, no matter how
immediately exciting it's convenience may be at first appeal. The End is never the less the End, unless you take steps to avoid it! |
Levy03: Just want one of two things. Either Computer Audio
follow the non-CD path of Sound Quality over convenience
( And not end up with a really short life span like outgoing CD Format ), or just point me in the right direction for replacement Format for Computer Audio. Don't
waste my time, money, and effort on Computer Audio ( Tens
of thousands of $$$ on audio Equipment ) just to have it
go flat ( Like CD ) due to lack of Sound Quality. Tired of going in circles, aren't you? Convenience over Sound Quality, what is different between CD and Computer Audio? |
Just don't want Computer Audio traveling down the same path as CD ( More Convenience, MP3 Style Sound Quality ).
Not alot of selection in High Rez. alternative, and it
appears that this will NOT be changing anytime soon. I
certainly don't want to be investing in CD Format Part
Deux ( Computer Audio ). Certainly don't appreciate the
Market dead set on making it so! Certainly don't appreciate
the Market eliminating all other competing alternatives
to force everyone down this path. Don't want short term
CD Format all over again!!! Not another rerun- PLEASE! |
Edorr: That's just it! Is Computer Audio a new proposed
Format, or is it just a clone of CD Format. Both Formats
value convenience over Sound Quality. Are we trading up, or
are we trading down? Right now there are Pop Artists whose
Music is available as Downloads, but not available as CD.
So much for the extra decade! Cheap local storage? MP3 with
less than CD resolution? Minimum High Resolution Selection-
almost strictly Classical/Jazz. Like both, but I don't live
by bread alone! Without Selection- kind of hard to see a step up. What is the Format I propose? A Computer Audio
Format that puts Sound Quality above convenience, with
adequate Music Selection- and is a clear step up in S.Q.
above CD. Computer Audio today is a partial Format- one foot in lower than CD MP3, and one toe in severely limited
selection of High Rez. Downloads. A few short of a six
pack for a real replacement Format? Not firing on all four
cylinders? Computer Audio desperately needs to get its ducks in a row, or else it will be out the door sooner than
CD. Shoot me if I propose that Computer Audio failure is not an option! Being a CD Format clone is surest way in
following in CD Formats failure! If convenience isn't
saving CD, it sure as hell isn't going to save Computer Audio. Computer Audio can, and should do better- if you
want to keep it longer than CD. Man (And Formats) do not
live by convenience alone! Formats (CD) apparently do
eventually die by convenience alone! Ditto Computer Audio??? I dare Computer Audio to do better than CD to save
it, and not let it suffer the same fate! Minimum Selection
in High Rez., and S.Q. of lower than CD MP3- two anchors
that will sink Computer Audio faster than the Titannic.
Definitely a ship built for convenience, but what was the point??? |
If I saw one High Rez. Download available of any of the following groups, I would do exactly that- Edorr! Heart, ABBA, Pink Floyd, Carpenters, John Barry, Ennio Morricone, Jerry Goldsmith, Howard Hanson, Bernard Herrmann, Gerry Rafferty, Enya, Bangles, Juice Newton, Kate Bush, Norah Jones, Nancy Sinatra, Henri Mancini, Liza Minelli......
etc.etc! Have seen High Rez. Downloads of Fleetwood Mac-Rumors, Eagles-Hotel California, Megadeath, Dianna Krall, and Ringo Star. I check what is available everyday. With this limited Selection in Pop Music, it is obvious that High Rez. Download Computer Audio is nowhere near serious in becoming the next Format. What is it then? A Format that cherry picks what Music everyone will be allowed to listen to? That is not a New Format! People will not buy something that is not there, under the empty promise that it will soon be there. We did that with SACD, spending tens of thousands on the equipment only to never see our Music available on SACD! This time you will have to show everyone the Music Selection first before everyone will buy into it! That has been the cost of every New Format for the last 50 years. Prove it to me that you are serious! |
I got stuck with the "Dark Side of the Moon" SACD Hybrid.
SACD side sounded awful, CD side sounded worse! I had to
go back to CD only Remastered version of this release.
If 50 years of Audio history is any model, it has always
been the egg (Format/Music Selection) that comes before
buying the Chicken (Equipment that plays Format). A Format Player with nothing to play on it, except for type of Music that perhaps 20% listen to (Minimum High Rez. Download Selection), is the epithany of how "Not to market a New Format". You are not even tickling the Dragons Tale of the Audio Market with that limited selection. Fifty years of Audio History in changing Formats, shows that only those Formats with a large cross section of Music Selection ever had the Market penetration for the chance to become successful. You are robbing Computer Audio Format of that opportunity with a Format crippling minimum selection in High Rez. It is so intuitive based on 50 years of Audio History in changing Formats. Can you atleast try to repeat the successes learned in Audio History, instead of repeating the failures (SACD/DVD-Audio)? I would still like to have Computer Audio around for awhile, but you are SACD'ing it to death with this minimum selection! Not interested in buying vacuum today! |
Would be nice to get back to original issue raised at the
creation of this Thread. I say you need Music Selection
first to sell the idea of High Rez. Downloads to a larger
Customer base. Also need to technically resolve contradictory Sound Quality issues with Computer Audio-
make it more consistent reliable sound quality. Computer
Manufacturer's definitely not interested in this, High End
Manufacturer's have to fill in the Vacuum. It is time to
get serious (Not more convenient) with Computer Audio. You
are going to have work to make Computer Audio into the Format that "Someday all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads"! Hard work is not popular, neither is
buying into a Format that is not ready- make it so or lose
it! Failure is not an option- it is that simple! You have
already lost Alessandro1, the way you are going isn't working! CD wasn't ready, neither was SACD, nor DVD-Audio.
Plenty of examples there of how "NOT" to create a New Format! None of it having anything to do with convenience! |
It is unfortunate, but the Computer Audio Market has bought
into the idea of the Microsoft "Auto-Pilot" version of
Customer Service- with the Customer doing the driving alone. Microsofts first instinct is to refer you to another
Customer to resolve your issue, that way save money where
you are not bugging them. This mentality is the main reason
everyone comes here for their Computer Audio issues- mainly
because the Manufacturer is an absentee landlord in Customer Service, and everyone knows it! I have tilted
against THAT Windmill enough times! Paper Masche Customer
Service, with big research on how to make it a hundred times thinner. What can you do, live with it! |
So when are we going to actually start DESIGNING a New
Format known as Computer Audio? Taking all of your
complaints with Computers- it looks like Computer Audio is
an ad hock conglomerate held together with Bandaids, Rubber
Bands, and Chewing Gum. NOW you figure there is something
wrong with it, ONLY AFTER leading us down this path! A Tool
not designed for High End Sound Quality? New Formats (And
their equipment) ARE designed for Sound Quality- if not High End! Manufacturer's design it FIRST for Sound Quality,
only then do we listen- only then do we buy it = SUCCESS!
Your way = FAILURE! No more bandaids from Bryston, or anyone else! Design the Format right the first time- for
once! No more AD HOCK PIECEMEAL FORMAT FAILURE!!! You don't
have a New Format - DESIGN ONE, GET ONE!!! |
Computer Audio fails for some, and succeeds for others, is
because of an inconsistency in design. Computers were never designed to reproduce High End S.Q. Every single
Music Format was designed for Music from the ground up:
Analog Records, Analog Tape, Cassette, 8-Track, CD, SACD,
DVD-Audio, and Blue-Ray Audio. Ditto for the Equipment to
playback these Formats- Computer Audio not so much!
Computers designed for Mastering at Recording Studios- NOT
THE SAME! Same as a DELL or an ASUS, or even an APPLE- who
are you kidding? New Format, only one NOT designed for Music- to replace all other Music Formats? Using a Tool
for other than it was designed for- absurd! Using it to
replace the rest of your Tools- insane! Failure inevitable! |
I appreciate the kind words, Chadeffect. I do use Computer
Audio! I have had success with it in S.Q. Computer Audio
may be what Music today is actually recorded & mainly
mixed on. These are still Studio designed, your Mac Mini
not quite in the same league. It is the Personnal Computer
that is the actual funnel that this Data has to pass through. A Tool not primarily designed for Music, unlike those being used in Mastering Studio's. Where are the
Personnal Computers designed for Music, and why aren't they here? Why are there no Audio Standards to maintain
some consistency in S.Q. for personnal Computers? It is no
accident that so many have such a varied result with
Computer Audio. Would like to keep it around for awhile,
but THIS does not bode well! I think that we deserve our
money's worth out of Computer Audio, that includes actually
designing the Personnal Computer FOR Audio in Computer Audio. If this is an oxymoron New Format, forgive me! I stand corrected. I don't really think it is though! |
Hfisher3380- excuse me, I stand corrected. Perhaps you can
clarify for me what DXD is? I believe it is the Format that
has been used in Mastering Studio's. I believe that it even has a higher sampling rate than SACD. Hey, my tower
only cost me $700.00. Can I still use it to mix multiple
DXD Music Files? No, something like that would cost atleast
5 digits or more. I know that it gives everyone a warm fuzzy thinking that their own home little personal Computer
is on the same playing field as the big boy's in the Mastering Studio's. Warm Fuzzies, Old Wives Tales, and the
Old Lock Ness Monster! Any consulation Hfisher3380- hey you
made a believer out of me, Nessie too! |
Chadeffect- does it ever occur to you that this lack of
Standard in the Operating System for Computer Audio- can
only lead to mixed results when used for High End Audio?
You are not going to win listeners that way, neither are
you gonna win by shaming those who have problems with varying S.Q. issues with Computer Audio. Since it isn't
designed for any consistency at all, how can you possibly
measure what is good, or best? I fail to see any planning
(Design) here at all! |
Hfisher3380- there is no Audio Format that has a more
fluid Standard than Computer Audio, and you KNOW IT!
You are using "WHAT" to replace all other Audio Formats-
a high pressure Firehouse? Well, I guess that will "BLOW"
alot of people away. This is supposed to help in Sound
Quality, and Musicality- open a Firehose directly into the
ear canal point blank range? Yeah, o-kay...an Audio experience to replace all other Audio Formats. Maybe if you
reduce the fluidity, and pressure a tad more people might be more receptive to your forcefullness in Computer Audio. |
Sorry Chadeffect. The only thing you are doing is making
Audio irrelevant, replacing it with Computer bells and
whistles. It won't be long before Microsoft/Apple/Mac...
etc, start to wonder why they even bother to include such
an insignificant thing like Music Audio. It just wastes
processing from other more successful/popular Programs/
toys. It is not like you, or anyone else here would
complain. Trust me, they KNOW this already. You don't really need Music Audio, or Computer Audio, or High Rez.
Downloads- do you? You will be spending all of your time
watching Movies, Playing Games, Doing your Taxes...etc.
You won't even remember what Computer Audio was...other
than drivel that was very tedious! You will be proud! |
And who, pray tell, invented lower than CD resolution
MP3? Was it you Chadeffect? Was it you Hfisher3380? Was
it you Antigrunge? Am I paranoid, or starting my own
Religion for calling out the Rocket Scientists at
Microsoft/Apple/Macintosh- for creating this abysmal
MP3? How in the hell did advanced technology back us up
to a "Model T" lower than CD resolution MP3? With this
kind of technology maybe you could eventually work your
way back to "Re-inventing the Wheel"? I call out negative
progress when I see it, not use it to replace everything
else. Certainly not worth the effort going backwards!
Computer Audio can, and will do better- unless you want it
to end up like SACD (A one night wonder- you decide this,
not me!). No more one night wonder lower than CD resolution
Formats to replace all other Formats! I demand my monies
worth in Sound Quality, because I earned my money. You say
I have to give it up to lower than CD resolution MP3, I
draw the line here! Where do you draw it, or do you just
continue to redraw it lower and lower? |
That is just it. There is "No update on service from
Mach2music". Nor from any other Computer Audio Manufacturer. They have a tendency not to report back
to their Customers as well. That is the reason why most
of us end up here. You never wondered why we don't go to the Manufacturer's of our Computer Audio first, instead
of here? They are probably too busy playing Golf with the
Lawyers, and the Doctors. They all seem to think that they
have something in common. |
You seem to be missing the point, Chadeffect. You can't
have a completely fluid Audio Format still in development,
ready to replace all other Audio Formats yesterday!
Someone will lose their Music, because there is no common sense transition. There is also no way to plan ahead, and
predict for a High End Stereo System. Do we just keep on buying New DAC's every few weeks as additional Sampling
Rates are created? Some of our most favorite Music might only be available as the "Sampling Rate of the Week". We
end up being held hostage to this, or lose our favorite
Music. Extorted to buy New Equipment/DAC every week,
someone certainly stands to make alot of money off of our
misery- if not our empty wallets. This will certainly come to pass if all other Audio Formats are eliminated. Eliminating choices for the Consumer (Monopolizing) is never any good for the Consumer. More like feeding us to the Lions! CONVENIENT? HOW? If I am going to get consumed,
instead of being the Consumer, I would prefer that it not
happen by the Ocean of a Fluid Audio Format! Do I have no
choice in this matter either? |
What is the longest you have ever kept an important piece
of Computer Gear- 6 Months? Surely after that amount of
time the latest this or that will have tranced what went
before. Nothing lasts forever.
I do believe that cassettes, Reel to Reels, DAT, DCC
...etc, were Formats that lasted a little longer than just
two weeks. Does it make any sense that they would only last
for that short period of time? No one could possibly afford that level of fluidity. Why are we being forced to
pay for that level of fluidity now? Excuse me, why allow
ourselves to be forced to pay for this "AFTER" all other
Audio Formats are replaced? Have you seen the price of
Gasoline/Food recently? Who can afford the high cost of a Fluid Format in this economy? I mean besides those standing to make huge profits off of our backs selling
high cost rapid Fluid Audio Formats! Tell me exactly who it is that I am supposed to be making rich here. Billionares haven't got enough? Are you trying to spread their "LOVE"? Think that they "LOVE" you? Surely then, they
will be sending some of their PROFITS your way- Yes, No?
Do they love Music or Profits more? Care to guess? Why not
just give them your money for free, I am sure they will
appreciate it! Still,you demand the rest of us do the same! |
Not so fast, Chadeffect. You still need an additional DAC
to convert 16/44, 24/44, 24/48, 24/88, 24/96, 24/176,
24/192, 24/196, and we all know 32 bit Music Files are
just around the corner. How many more new DACs do we need for how many more new Sampling Rates every two weeks? Who
makes the big bucks off of this? Do they make the big bucks
in a vacuum? Who then loses the big bucks? You do,
Chadeffect, and anyone else who follows this insane path to
emptying their wallet. Not good when you have to pay for
gasoline, and food in this economy. Are you understanding
the point yet? You have to be able to add to understand the point. I think you can, I just believe that you want to
conveniently avoid the math. Your Computer Audio maybe fluid; But, peoples money, and their income are not! There
is a disconnection there, and people will feel that sting
with an expensive fluid Computer Audio Format. People react
differently after they get stung! They lose the love for the New Format real fast! Fix this, or don't- I don't care
anymore. |
You listed all of those Sampling Rates, did you see the list? Not all of those Sampling Rates were created at the same time, neither is that the end of the "New Sampling Rate of the Week". As far as conversion is concerned, I
don't see the Software Conversion keeping up with a "New
Sampling Rate of the Week"! How can it? You have a train
wreck of a mess for an endless open ended Format that no
one can plan ahead for, more or less afford. Convenient for
profiteers, born on the backs of poor smuck Consumers.
Never needed Wasapi, Kernel Streaming, or ASIO for CD
Playback. Never had a problem with Computer Virus, Hard
Drive Errors, Fragmentation, Hard Drive Crash, Back-up Hard
Drive Crash for CD Playback. Never needed Meta Data, Music
File Type, Three hour Download, Ripping Software, Setting
Configuration of Media Player for CD Playback. I can drag
a powerful magnet across a CD with no ill effect. Even if it did it would still be only one damaged Disk. Do the same
to your Computer and wipe out 2,000 or more Music Files.
You are creating the ultimate every egg in the universe being placed in the largest basket. Basket fall down and go
BOOM! Pieces of Music File everywhere. Never a problem with
CD; but, now you want everyone to give up CD, and pay through the nose for all of the problems listed above. What
does the word "THRIFT" mean to you other than billionare
Computer Manufacturers making tens of billions? Hundreds of
billions? Again your math is a little off, because that huge amount of money isn't born in a vacuum. It is born off of our backs, and we will suffer because of it. Atleast
don't take our Music away by pulling plug on all other
Audio Formats! Have a Heart, a Soul would be nice too! |
I was hoping for some comedic uplift, all that I got from
your response was pathetic apathy. Is that why you listen to Music, to make you feel more apathetic? Is that some new
Goth thing that comes with Computer Audio? You're buying
HAL, or SKYNET for your Audio to get your Goth on? Are you
becoming a machine listening to another machine produce
Computer Audio Music? Shoot, who would want to pass an
opportunity like that up? Burn them CDs, "BURN EM"! I want
to become a machine too-"NOT"!!! |
Shortcut Computer Audio Style: Pick two points, start a line and head westward circumnavigating the Globe, come
around to the second point only 1 inch from the first
point. CD: jump the one inch! Bypass: Wasapi, Kernel Streaming, Hard Drive Errors, File Fragmentation, Meta
Data, Hard Drive Crash, Back-up Hard Drive Crash, Computer
Viruses, Three hour High Rez. Downloads, Ripping Software,
Media Player Software, Configuration of both, and endless
amount of time and tasking to handle "ALL" of these. It is like going to the Moon via Mars, are we lost here? Reasonable question before dumping a 1,000 times more tasking on us, as a replacement for simple plug-n-play CD?
Why do we need the 50th extra Wheels required for Computer
Audio? Because a CD is too heavy for you? Simple- I want
Music, not to have to decode the "Matrix" to get it! Your
Computer Audio is just getting in my way of my Music in a
big way! Add more steps, run more interference, "WHY"? |
Computers are clunky Period, with File Fragmentation, Hard
Drive Errors, Hard Drive Crashes, Back-up Hard Drive
Crashes...etc. Of course Mac's require less maintenance; But I have never had to defrag a CD, nor had a Hard Drive
error on one. CD's are more reliable without requiring
"ANY" Software. You damage a CD you lose an Album, you damage a Hard Drive and lose your entire collection of Music. This is a pain in the Ass! Some want to tinker with
Software for their Music, some of us just want to cut thru
this B.S. and go straight for the Music. No ripping, Software anything- just straight simple Plug-N-Play. I see
no necessity that anything replace anything, especially
when an Audio Market has a real need for both- many like it
that way! It gives Consumers choices- and we detest anyone
giving us Ultimatums to remove our choices. There will always be an Audio Market for Plug-N-Play. Compared to CD,
Computer Audio ain't it- it is that simple! We can have
both, it is you with the Ultimatums of Impending Doom (One
size fits all) from Computer Audio squeezing everything else out. It sounds like the MOB taking over the Audio Market, with the militant attitude of Computer Audio Supporters as enforcers. Well, there goes the Audio Market
Neighborhood! It used to be a nice place, now stray bullets everywhere. |
Original Topic of this Thread- Mach2Music and Amarra: Huge
disappointment.
"Soon all New Music will only be available as Music
Downloads". This is a shot across the bow of any other
Audio Format. Audio Engineer talks about Computer Audio even replacing Vinyl. All of this talk about Impending
Doom, and replacing everything with Computer Audio. Why
this negative naked agression from Computer Audio supporters against all other Audio Formats? I would just
assume that nothing has to replace anything, let everyone
alone to just enjoy their own Format. First these impending
Doom, shot across the bow, take no prisoners, overt
aggressive statements against all other Audio Formats.
Then it's "There is nothing wrong with listening to CD's.
It's all OK". You guy's are all over the map with this.
First the extreme aggresiveness shot across the bow, then
the passive "We don't care what you listen to". When I hear
cannon shot across the bow of my Audio Format, I stand up and pay attention. You are firing the first shot here
against other Formats. How about taking a little respondsibility for that! No one likes being shot at, nor
having their Audio Format shot at either. Just about
anyone is going to return the favor with a broadside, just
so they don't look weak! You go looking for a fight, find one, then act like "Holier Than Thou". I don't think you really know what you want! I expect choices from any Market,or I don't buy it! What, I am only going to be able to buy a car from only one Car Manufacturer? I am only going to be able to buy from one Audio Format- Computer
Audio? Nobody would tolerate this same standard for any
Market- it would be Consumer Suicide without competition.
Cut off your face to spite your nose, why work so hard at
this? |
Monopolies stress me out- Hfisher3380! What Consumer dreams
of imposing a Single Audio Format Monopoly on all other
Consumers. It is not like the Manufacturer's will be sharing their sharply increased Profits with you, they will be keeping those. You are a Consumer. They are Sharks in a Feeding Frenzy, and you are the Bait. You think that you are going to get "Chummy" with the Sharks? You think feeding the rest of us Consumers to this Feeding Frenzy,
somehow makes you our friends? Think that this will save you- these are "SHARKS"! They are not looking out for you! |
