Lyngdorf TDAI-3400

I have the 2170 and ran a Denafrips Terminator into the high-end analog module and it was only a slight improvement over the internal DAC. I used a SMG i5 as a Roon core, Sonore UltraRendu, Denafrips GAIA DDC. So when I removed the Terminator I just went SPDIF from the DDC and also USB straight from the UltraRendu. Either way the Terminator sounded a little better but not really enough to justify its price tag.

 

 

Hi all,

I am thinking of getting the TDAI-3400 as an all in one unit and plug in a USB stick or HDD and let it play my music files.  Is the unit processing powerful enough to make music selection / playing a smooth experience compared to Roon?

I am also look at the Naim Uniti Nova as another choice..

Thanks!

I am very late to this party, but I just purchased a TDAI-3400.

Until a few weeks ago, prior to moving into a new house, I had been listening exclusively to losslessly ripped CDs, played in Apple Music/iTunes --> NAD M51 DAC --> Pass XA30.5 --> Spatial Audio M1 Turbo S speakers. It is a great setup that sounded fantastic for many years in my old house. However, in the new house, it sounded completely different. Most notably, the soundstage was compressed, the bass was severely lacking, and something was off about the lower midrange.  

I have one media wall in the new house with the one audio system for television, movies and music. In this house room treatment is not an option and speaker placement is limited. In researching room correction software, the Lyngdorf caught my attention. That gave me "the bug" and got me interested in streaming, which I had never incorporated, which got me looking at a number of all-in-one units. But Lyngdorf's Room Perfect put it in the top spot for  to try.

My initial thought was to use something like the Lyngdorf standalone for TV and movies, but output to the Pass amplifier for critical music listening. Based on recommendations in one of the posts on this site, I contacted Neal Van Berg at Sound Science, a Lyngdorf dealer. He was awesome to speak with, fully supported my idea and allowed me to do an in-home trial, and provided lots of help and insights along the way.

I set up the Lyngdorf and ran Room Perfect. It could not have been easier, and the difference it made blew my mind. I wasn't expecting it to be that profound. But what was more surprising to me is this. I had just assumed the Pass amp would sound much better than the TDAI for destination music listening. And I do prefer the Pass on some music - especially some favorite female vocals, for example. But the more I go back and forth between listening to Lyngdorf-->Pass vs. Lyngdorf on its own, the more I am enjoying the complete Lyngdorf sound. I would say that it is at least as enjoyable as the Pass on a lot if not most music I listen to.

I'm also having a blast with Tidal and Qobuz via Roon as well. In fact, I am listening to more music now than I have in a long time. And there is  nothing fatiguing about the TDAI's sound, which seems to be a common concern with Class D. I find the Lyngdorf sound to be quite open, natural and relaxed. And there are numerous ways it allows you to tweak your sound through voicings you can customize via parametric EQ.

Conclusion: I plan to keep the Pass amp for certain listening sessions, but if the Pass had to go away I could be very happy with the TDAI-3400 on its own. I am keeping it.

I had the TDAI-3400 for about a year and used only the on board DAC for streaming (Innuous Zenith III) and was pretty happy with it until I tried the Mytek Manhattan 2 DAC.  It's a lot more expensive as a stand alone DAC but the improvements in sound were profound.  
My point is that you might want to explore some stand alone DACs to get the best sound from this amp.  The Schitt Yggy is a high bang for the buck DAC as one example.  Mytek Brooklyn is another one to consider.  Buy one from a seller that allows a trial and the risk is low.
A stand alone music server will also sound much better than streaming directly into the Lyngdorf.  

Any more opinions on this? I have a 3400 and am looking to get the best sound quality from Tidal and Qobuz. Ethernet directly into the 3400 and run Roon? Or dedicated streamer from Lumin, Innuos, Auralic, etc, with USB or AES into the Lyngdorf?

Here’s a late opinion about how to make tdai-3400 sound its best.

I’ve had the tdai-3400 for half a year, and found it to be great. Without roomperfect it is so-so, but with it sounds wonderful. Thats not surprising and has been written several times.

I’ve primarily used it with a 400gb usb stick at the back (but also with direct ethernet streaming), both because it was cheap and because I thought the sound could not get better than this (no noise from upstream units etc.). But I was wrong.

To satisfy my curiosity whether there was something to gain I bought the Schiit Eitr USB-to-spdif converter. I believe it both galvanically isolates, buffers and reclocks the usb signal. I then play usb out from an odroid xu4 (with kodi currently) -> Eitr -> Lyngdorf coax in. After letting it play for a couple of days there is no doubt, the sound is in a higher class; everything is tightened up, clearer and smoother, better precision and more 3d, I can now sometimes hear sounds coming from strange places behind me which I could not before. The difference is quite obvious.

And the kicker is that the Eitr is only 100$ on sale from Schiit. I spent a lot of time googling before I bought it, and there are several competitors including a singxer and a mutec, but the Schiit seemed on level with the best and at the lowest price. The general opinion seems to me to be that streamers up to around the auralic g1 will benefit from the Eitr, meaning sms200, microrendu, the small Innous will benefit, and sms200 ultra, ultrarendu etc. likely also. But it is of course subjective and not every opinion read can be trusted.

I’ve read some debate whether the stuff upstream from the Eitr matters at all - Schiit says no, but some say they hear a difference with both source and usb cable. My odroid xu4 is not especially audiophile or anything, its maybe similar to the raspberry 4. I’ve bought a special usb cable so I can inject very clean 5v usb power to the eitr (it uses a little bit of power from the source, 100mA I think), but I can’t yet say it there is any benefit to it yet (don’t yet have a good 5v power supply) - but a few say it benefits. I am curious to test it with a better source, the Allo USbridge signature would be a cheapish option.

I don’t doubt those who say that an excellent dac (I believe I’ve read > 2000$) into the upgraded analog inputs on the tdai may be the very best, but the price is also in another league.

So, if anyone is using usb in to the tdai-3400/2170, or streaming directly to it, i’d say try the Eitr with any usb source, you may be surprised.

Note: the Eitr will be discontinued, thats why it is only 100$ now. Schiit supposedly have invented something thats a bit better, but they say they won’t put it in a separate unit like the Eitr, only build it into their own dacs. I have no relation to Schiit what so ever, and I don’t have any other Schiit gear, but I find the Eitr to be crazy value for the money.

Hi, all. I am considering using the 3400 as an all-in-one box for my music/movie system. For movies, I’ll be feeding it with AppleTV contents via hdmi, so it can drive my Legacy speakers and play video on a Samsung TV. My question is, does the 3400 hdmi module have audio delay feature so I can sync audio and video? I can’t seem to find that information on Lyngdorf website.


Richard

I would spend less and get a used 2170. Use the USB input and a Innuos server like the Zen III. Don’t forget a good usb cable. Wonderful sounding total rig for less than the cost of 3400. My 2170 is great with Tidal and Roon. I actually think the 2170’s amp section is sweeter sounding than the 3400. Plenty of power in my huge space with 89db speakers.

There is a used 2170 on US Audiomart. You will need to buy a $400-$500 USB input card which is easy to install. Factor that cost in when you compare to the 3400.

@biggund I can't answer all of your questions, but I use my TDAI-3400 with Roon and it works flawlessly. You can control it from the Roon app, turning it on or off. If it's off and you press play on a song, it automatically switches on and the song waits a couple seconds to start playing while the amp powers up. Similarly if you turn off the Lyngdorf while playing a song, Roon automatically pauses. It's all integrated perfectly.

I haven't used it in conjunction with other DACs or streamers to be able to answer that question but I feel like it would be somewhat redundant and a waste of money. If you want to use a separate streamer/DAC, I probably wouldn't choose the TDAI-3400. Get something where all of your money is going into parts/features you are going to use.

@biggund If you wish to purchase a 3400 with the optional analog module, I have one for sale.

Hi there, I've found this thread and others on the Lyngdorf units very informative, and I thought I'd ask a few questions.  I am interested in upgrading my amp to a unit that has some sort of room correction, and am looking at the TDAI-3400 as well as an Anthem STR Integrated with ARC correction. It seems like there was a preference for the Lyngdorf based on another thread...

I live in a loft, with very high ceilings, lots of glass and concrete floors, and a large open room where the stereo is - there is a tremendous amount of echo and reflection. I am slowly applying room treatments like bass traps but it is still not getting to where I'd like it to be in terms of sound quality.

So this leads me to some questions on the TDAI-3400:

1. What are people's experiences with using the unit as a Roon Endpoint and using the ethernet connection? Will the ethernet connection allow UPNP/DLNA service with a renderer and something like MinimServer? Are there improvements to be had using a dedicated streamer like a Lumin U1 mini or Innuos Zenith to connect via USB?
2. Related to the above - I have seen some threads suggesting that sound quality improves using a higher end DAC to feed the unit - is it advisable to stick with a digital in and use the unit's internal DAC, or could it be an improvement to use an external DAC?

Any comments would be appreciated.  Cheers, Gerry

@yyzsantabarbara asked what I meant by a non-private sale for my TDAi-3400. It’s for sale on Audiogon, which I consider a non-private (public) sale. I mentioned on this board that it is for sale without going through Audiogon, which I consider a private sale. I don’t know whether that makes sense but that was my rationale.

I am in the camp of being very happy with the Lyngdorf 3400 but wonder if I can improve even further if I went digital out to a dac (i love chord dacs), and then a great amp (pass labs, etc.). I suppose at this point in time the 3400 would only serve as room correction and front end, but if adding a DAC/AMP of my choice hopefully adds more value that is worth the cost, thoughts?

VThose statements read like the experience of owners and factual information about the manufacturer/owner. No, the unit does not sound like tubes, but when properly set up with time and diligence the 2170 can sound so damn engaging. I build tube gear and have owned, listen to in my home and upgraded/modified more gear than you can imagine @bjesien. Goodness just look at my feedback. Yes, I am the dude who manufactures and sells audio cables. Yes, I am the dude who said my 2170 replaced some $20,000 worth of gear and and I like my current sound more. All true statements and my actual experience. Again, just because you have not had the same experience does not mean other’s realities are hyperbolic in nature. No, it simply means they are different experiences with the same Hifi piece. Common to have differing opinions and experiences with a piece of gear so why the negative spin on the opinions of folks who think this piece is not just another integrated amp? Our experiences are just as valid as yours. Just different.

You stated you did not find the piece to your liking, nothing special, flat sounding etc...That is your experience and should be shared here. All good.  But it seems that was not enough for you and you were somehow motivated to insult different opinions and experiences. This is where you went wrong 

Sorry goin ramble a bit.

I used to own the mighty Primaluna Dialogue Premium Integrated amp. I much preferred the more refined sound of the 2170. Sorry.

I just could not get the PL to please me, I spent 100’s of dollars in tubes to make it work. Just didn’t cut it for me. Now...did I go to the Primaluna forum and question everyone’s ears? Nope! I sold it and moved on.

I will tell you when I first hooked up the 2170, I wasn’t sure I would like it. Sounded a bit thin, two dimensional and bright. Well a week later I was really starting to enjoy it, warmed up quite a bit and 2 years later, I still own it. I can buy something else if I want to. Grannyring doesn’t have a gun to my head!

Is the 2170 perfect?...No. Does it sound like tubes? Not really..Does tubes sound like the 2170...Not!
If I wanted tubes I would buy a tube amp. Does the 2170 do things better than tubes amps I have heard...yes. Do you people buy vanilla ice cream hoping it will taste like chocolate?

Sorry for the over the top enthusiasm for the Lyngdorf has hurt some of you. The 2170 to me is a very important piece of equipment. Its fine to give the 2170 negative reviews..I am ok with it...not going hurt me a bit. You can question my hearing to..I am ok with that also.

Please try to use this experience, buy smarter and stop blaming others for your misfortunes. Make a positive out of it and use it as a learning experience.

The person I bought the 2170, felt the midrange was harsh at higher levels. Ok! Didn’t find that

I know someone here that sold a 2170, because he felt it was too bright...ok! Sorry to hear that. In my system, it sounds more natural and liquid compared to the Primaluna. Can I make my system sound bright with the 2170 installed...sure. Get me some titanium tweeters and silver wiring please!

My intention on posting was not to single out any users of this thread, owners, designers, etc. I am an ordinary listener with less experience than many people here, but I have traded in excess of $150,000 in gear, live near and travel to cities for pleasure and business and always seek opportunities to listen when I can. I pay attention but audio is a relatively unimportant passion for me if that makes sense.

I do realize that no piece of gear will ever please all audiophiles, and that certainly includes the 2170. To my ears it does not sound like tubes, doesn’t "bloom" and lacks in terms of transparency. I was influenced to give it a try based on some of the notes from the internet that I will share. I take many pages of notes on my phone each month (maybe 1-2 pages on audio) and I don’t know who said what/where, but I try to copy them accurately when I see them. Notes from my Iphone-

Lyngdorf TDAI 2170:

2170 85w 3400 200wpc.

User says audiophiles can buy a Lyngdorf with funds from their cable sales and stop thinking about hifi.

User says closest thing to wire with gain.

User says amp will replace $40,000 worth of tube gear.

Company site--With room perfect, speakers sound exactly as the manufacturer intended them to sound.

User says it makes obsolete over $70,000 worth of gear in his room.

Reviewer says the amp changed his life.

Owner of company was part owner of NAD and Snell and owns Dali. 20 years plus amps and room correction experience.



----------------------------------------------------

Talk about hyperbolic and broad brush, oh my. The 2170 sounds similar to other 3- 4-5k integrateds I’ve had, actually not as good as many of them. I’ve watched audio gear for a while now and I don’t recall many claims of people selling $70k worth of gear for a $5k amp/dac. I bet many that bought based on that hype have sold them and moved on already.  

@bjesien 
Sorry your experience does not match many happy owners and reviewers. Not sure why your post is so negative and attacking of me and other happy owners who have as much or considerably more experience and knowledge than you. Too bad you went there. 

You should realize by now that no piece of gear will ever, ever, please all audiophiles. So many factors lead to differing outcomes that I could write a short book on it.  Proper system set up, gear and synergy, room synergy and realities, break in, small tweaks, listener hearing and preferences, cabling, and on and on....

Sure it did not work for you, but no need to go hyperbolic and broad brush negative on other owner experiences. Many pieces of great sounding gear out there that garner mixed owner reviews and experiences. Nothing new or surprising here. 

@mifanning Curious to what you consider a non-private sale?

I assume I can post a notice for a private sale.  If that’s against forum rules, please let me know.

I have a Lyngdorf TDAi-3400 for sale. It has the optional high-end module, is still under warranty and is in terrific condition. I purchased it from @waltersalas a few weeks ago. The reason I am selling: I received a great offer on a Devialet integrated, which mates better with my Vivid Oval 1.5 speakers. Send me a PM if interested.

Martin- I would not jump into a Lyngdorf without listening to one for a while.  I found the 2170 to be dull and defenseless among amps of similar value from Leben, Luxman, VAC, SPEC, and many others.  
In my opinion (only been at this for 20 years and I’m 45 years old) this is another latest and greatest amp that people will defend and love and they can keep it.  It’s thrown around it these threads that the lyngdorf with easily replace $20,000 or more in amps.  I question the hearing of those making such claims.  Sure it’s light and energy efficient and has a remote and you can tune the volume well but beware of such claims.  The room perfect enhances some sound qualities but it’s not much of a baseline to enhance.  YMMV.

@mifanning 

I hope you enjoy the 3400 as much as I did. It is such a versatile, great-sounding piece. Great pleasure to meet you in person as well.

I purchased the Lyngdorf TDAi-3400 from @waltersalas and am just starting to familiarize myself with the amp.  I moved from a Devialet 200.  Look forward to sharing thoughts!

Hi very interesting reading. I was searching for reviews of the Primaluna HP integrated and stumbled on this discussion.

I am looking for an amp that can deliver a huge 3D soundstage. Can the Lyngdorf deliver that? In the France review https://www.opus51.fr/les-tests/item/870-lyngdorf-tdai-3400-le-test the soundstage was being criticised for staying between the speakers.

 But from what I am hearing here you all think that the soundstage are very good.

As I am not using my Lyngdorf 3400 currently as much, I am going to invest more into my headphone setup. My 3400 is going for sale. If anyone is interested, please let me know. Comes with the digital and analog modules.

Is there any place nearby the Washington DC area to hear either of the Lyngdorf integrated amps?

Well, similar to the OP, I tried the same thing again the next day and mysteriously, it worked. There was nothing different about this attempt but somehow it was able to detect the microphone and I was able to launch Room Perfect. 

I will say though that I reached out to Ellington Hifi and Tony got back to me within a few hours. He then tried to reach out to me by phone multiple times during the day and we finally connected later on in the day. Though I was not his original customer, he treated me like one and his effort to help did not go unnoticed. Just a stand up guy, Tony is. I wouldn't hesitate to work with him in the future for anything he carries. Just thought I'd put that out there. 

I just received the 3400 and am trying to run Room Perfect but I can't seem to get it started. As soon as I run it, I hear a sound coming out of my left speaker (not the right) and I get the Signal Error and it prompts me to check my microphone connection. Anyone else with this issue? 

The 3400 comes with a microphone that connects to the XLR to XLR microphone cable which then connects to a XLR to mini-jack which goes into the front "Mic" socket. I've tried rebooting as well but to no avail. Same error each time as I try to get Room Perfect to run. 

For those that have had this issue, any ways you can think of to get it to work? For those that have not had this issue, any idea as to what I might be doing wrong? Maybe the microphone is defective?

@emcdade.....That’s like saying a new piece of gear, room treatment or cabling that improves your sound is only because one did not like the sound without the new addition in the first place.  That is not true and again an over generalization. 

Thanks for replying waltersalas, nice to hear you still have it and enjoying it!

@t_ramey 

I am really enjoying my 3400. As with most things in high end, whether someone could live with it long term depends on their priorities. It does not quite have the mid-range magic of a good SET tube amp, but I find its mid-range to be very natural sounding, and the soundstage overall fuller and somehow more "complete" than other amps I've had, with excellent imaging as well. The bass is also tighter and deeper than I've had, though this is hard to compare with some other amps from the past, since I had different speakers in those days.

The Room Perfect is very nice, though how it important it is may depend upon the challenges of the room. Since my system is in the living room with very little in the way of room treatments, it is nice to have.

In all, I'm very happy with both the sound and versatility of the 3400, though it did take a little time to get used to the loss of the SET sound. I feel sure that if I went back now, there are more things that I would miss about the Lyngdorf. Honestly, convenience is also part of the equation. But the sonics are excellent as well, at least for my tastes.

I hope that helps.

Emcade, if you think speakers have flat in room response I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.  The dsp manages the crap the room sticks you with.  Not everything can be dealt with via room treatment. 

Grannyring,

I'm happy for you if you think it's an improvement.  To that I would say you must not have liked the direct sound that your speakers provide in the first place, because that is what EQ is changing.

@waltersalas  

Any update you can share? I also have a Lampi Atlantic and wonder about your thoughts on the Lyndorf’s dac section. 

Quite looking forward to having RC be employed in my room. My living room is open concept so the space is far from ideal - at least 20x30. I expect that the RC will be a welcome adjustment. 

The sound quality after RC is applied is far better in my room.  Not just the bass. Seems your over generalized comment is perhaps flawed. Many owners find the post RC sound quality to be superior top to bottom. Far fewer don’t. Have you owned a 2170 or 3400 and used it for an extended time in your room? Do you have first hand experience in your room? The RC used by Lyngdorf is proprietary and state of the art.  Over generalizations don’t help here. 

Room correction begins with the flawed premise that a single microphone can hear what our ear/brain hears in our room.  It's not even close.

They can do a great job cleaning up unruly bass.  But past 200 hz you're doing more harm than good "correcting" the frequency response that your speaker designer worked so hard for.

First you need to use cabling noted for natural unforced sound. Cabling that has great midrange bloom and meat on the bones weight.  Cabling that has natural tone and serves up details with smooth and warm personality.  No silver.  No silver over copper.  Cables made from Duelund tinned and stranded copper wire in cotton is ideal.  Absolutely ideal. Yes, I make such cables. Other cables also fit this bill such as Cerious Tech. 

I good power cord and balanced power conditioner. Stay away from silver power cords and too much shielding. I am a big fan of balanced isolation transformers in front of the Lyngdorf. These help deliver a full bodied and natural sound quality.  

Keep the unit on as it sounds best after being on some 12 hours.  Fully on....not in standby. 

Run room correction to at least 98 percent room reading. 

I did some internal mods to mine that really brought out the intimacy and realism. I won’t go into that here as it is not something many would do with warranty issues etc,... 

@grannyring I saw your message to walter above that you had some ideas for tweaks to get us closer to the tube like mids that the Line Magnetic SET amp can introduce, would you mind sharing those as well? Very curious as this was one thing that I was missing, even with a top end Luxman class A amp. 

Wow, I had not realized that there were quite a few Line Magnetic owners that have also experimented with the 3400. I just jumped on the 3400 that was on sale as well and am really looking forward to having this be the primary amp for my system. After having tried the Luxman 509X and the 590AXII in my system, my bar is fairly high in terms of solid state amps. Not sure this can do much better but I like the flexibility that this unit has on paper. Room calibration, HDMI inputs and outputs, headphone, small footprint and runs cool. It should prove to be a good alternative for me as I will be keeping my 805ia to do tube duty whenever I feel like it. 

I am not also considering a server/streamer ... sounds like Innuos and Lumin/Melco might be options. Anyone with experience with those streamers?

You want to be calibrated, put yourself in sweet spot.

@ron1264 I hide in an adjoining bathroom, though I doubt this really necessary. 😂 

@grannyring Thanks for your information. I had everything set like you mentioned and I'm pretty sure i did everything correctly, but you never know. I will give it another try after my subs are in and everything is broken in. One thing that I am curious about is where should I place "myself" during the calibration?

@aniwolfe Thanks for the link. I had already watched the video and I believe I did the room perfect correctly. I will give it a try in a month or so when the subs are in place and everything is broken in. I'm in no hurry as I'm really liking the sound without room perfect! The Paradigm Persona's are amazing speakers,

@ron1264 

Check this video if you need more help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqwXGBz7TzY

I would say you need to look at the RP instructions again and follow them very carefully.  Set the speakers up to sound the very best they can in your space without RP.  Then you run RP.

It may take a little time to become more expert in using RP.  Losing all the highs is never something that should happen with a properly run RP set up. Something was not set up properly.  Also make sure you are using the Focus position setting along with Neutral.  You may have engaged one of the sound filters beyond neutral by accident. 

Well, my 3400 arrived today and I have to say I’m pretty impressed with the sound with just a few hours on it, mind you that my Paradigm Persona’s are also brand new, and not yet broken in. Believe it or not, what least impressed me was the room perfect. I ran it and it made the sound very midrange heavy, the highs where pretty much gone and even the bass was not as punchy. After my subs arrive, and everything is broken in, I will run room perfect again to see what it can do.