Lumin U2 or Aurender N200

@audphile1 

Cool,

I’ve pretty much decided there will be a N200 in future.😁

You won’t regret it. It’s a great streamer.

@audphile1 Which USB cable did you decide on? I will probably replace my Bryston BDP-3 with the N200. (Not willing to pay twice the price for a N20) Currently using a Siltech Classic Legend 380 USB.

FWIW I upgraded from a AQ Diamond USB to the Audience frontRow Reserve USB and it is sensational, but highly expensive. I only needed .75M so that helped. I was going "all in" and end game. N200 as source.

@swede58 I use Audioquest Diamond. I also tried Audience StudioOne and liked it a lot. Fuller and smoother than the AQ but slightly softer on top and woolier in the bass. I can only imagine how good the FrontRow is. 

Will be trying Nordost Tyr 2 soon. I can report back. 

@audphile1

I recommend trying Network Acoustics’s Muon or ENO USB cables. Comes with 30 days return privileges. I’ve owned their ENO USB and it was by far the most natural sounding USB cable under $2K. My 2nd best was Kimber Hybrid USB :-)

@lalitk cool. Will keep it on the list.
I’m about to try Tyr 2 speaker cables so figured I’ll do a full norfost loom for this evaluation. I have Tyr 2 XLRs and Frey 2 PCs

Cool. I found analog + PC cables from same brand tends to play well together or should I say, offer better synergy. Digital cables are different animal all together. 

We’ll see in the next few days. One risk with the full loom is tipping the scale. Could be too much of a good thing. I’m excited and nervous at the same time. Lol

The N20 and U2 are priced similar. 

The Aurender is a server function which has facilities for a hard disk with music files on it, SSD or Spin, no matter really. For large library like > 10TB, the internal drives on the Aurender are way too small, unless you want to copy from a main library, can be tedious, not for me. Both units can accept external drives, but these are noisy and mechanically not reliable, build up too much heat for my liking.

Larger libraries need to managed well, so the Aurender approach is a trade off, the older models had drama with power outages causing corruption, but these days aurender addressed power rails with supercaps... not a s good as a UPS, but would not have one near any audio component.

The Lumin can cater for large libraries, all it does for the native app is to index the files on a server, and pull the files from NAS, PC or PC that's away from the Lumin.

Server software manages library, the Lumin just plays. For the moment the Lumin is the end point to Audirvana which resides on a Win 11 i7 64GB RAM 2 x 16TB HDD PC The computer is adept to managing the library with no issues, has the horsepower to do so, so the streamer doesn't have to worry about any processing, metadata etc, just play the music.

Isolation is by EtherRegen, & SilentPower LAN iPurifier Pro with a mix of Cat5e, Cat8 cables.

Often thought about the Aurender, but it misses out for large libraries unless I'm missing the point on how their conductor application works. Lumin are very responsive on correcting bugs and are leading protocol implementation ahead of Aurender. 

You can set up Aurender to read from NAS. I have an SSD with music library mounted inside the unit though. 

Aurender has the best digital Library Management software. No other company I know of that allows metadata editing from an iOS app. I am now using Roon but Aurender ACS 100 is my go to reference for managing /ripping digital content. I am using a pair of Samsung EVO SSD - 8TB….they are dead quiet. 

https://aurender.com/home/acs100/

I had a Lumin U2 for serveral weeks. Fiber optic port is a nice option if you do it correctly. I then demoed a Rockna Dreamwave and went with that option. In my system, it was a better fit. Beautiful open soundstage and has a CD transport and 2tb of onboard memory. I cant speak of the Aurender. My advice is to choose the one that sounds best in your system. Good luck.

@lalitk does ACS100 pull in metada like artwork, tracks, etc?

@rms456 

Often thought about the Aurender, but it misses out for large libraries unless I'm missing the point on how their conductor application works.

Aurender can play files directly from a NAS.  I just set mine up and it works perfectly.

@audphile1

Yes. You also have an option to edit any metadata manually from their IOS app called ACS Manager. I really love the functionality and features ACS provides without the intervention of a laptop or desktop. I still buy CD’s that are sourced from analog masters and ACS helps me rip and curate them meticulously. You can create folders, sub folders and so on (you should already aware of this).

I have transitioned to ROON so I am using ACS for storage, library management and ripping. ROON now has a capability to show your folders, so I see mirror image of my ACS folders in my ROON app.

@audphile1

Will be trying Nordost Tyr 2 soon. I can report back.

Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

@lalitk one annoying aspect of streamers, Aurender included, is that the artwork for most of the music library isn’t being displayed. This is despite the fact that the jpg images are located in the correct folders. So the metadata is neither being read from the drive nor pulled from the internet sites. I guess that’s why ACS100 exists.
Roon has no such problems.

@audphile1 

I hear you…had the same issue with BS Vault. The ACS Manager app is much more robust and gives you many options to pulled down artwork in your choice of resolution. I have over 900 albums on ACS…every single one of them has artwork and metadata. 

It’s a personal choice but I take a little bit of pride in curating my content so all of my albums have high resolution artwork since space is not an issue for me. 

As far as ROON goes, it will display an artwork of album being played. 

@swede58 I’ll have some thoughts over the weekend.

@ketchup . thanks for the clearing this point up, much I could read the pulling of files across the network was not described very well.

The difference between the Lumin and Aurender, is the Aurender can pull music files across the network, whereas the Lumin requires a server software to push to the endpoint. I can see advantages for both systems, the aurender has the simplicity of username, password, and processes the metadata and the file locally.

The Lumin handshakes with the server to decode metadata, change sampling rate to match the file and away it goes. The Lumin provides flexible choice of server (Audirvana, minim server, Jriver for a start), uPNP and Open Home protocols, Aurender has the Conductor software, that's about it. IF Conductor is not to your liking, there's the rock or the hard place.

@rms456 the latest generation Aurender streamers are Roon ready. So if you don’t like conductor you can use Roon, albeit the sound quality is degraded slightly (as with most Roon ready streamers).

@swede58 as I mentioned previously I borrowed Nordost Tyr 2 speaker cables to compare to my current speaker cables, Audience FrontRow. I also borrowed Tyr 2 USB cable to compare with Audioquest Diamond that I currently use in my system.
My current cables are Nordost Tyr 2 XLR between Bricasti M3 DAC and Boulder 866 integrated. Power cables Nordost Heimdall 2 on Aurender N200, Frey 2 on DAC and Frey 2 on amp.

I started the comparison by replacing just the speaker cables. After letting the cables settle, I can say the Tyr 2 are different but not better. Really close but the Tyr 2 are slightly thinner sounding than the FrontRow. The overall balance is cooler with the Tyr 2 speaker cables. Drums sound just a bit smaller with the Tyr 2. Soundstage is superb but the FrontRow are no slouch there either.

After I got familiar with the new sound, I swapped the Diamond USB. Out wentvthe AQ and in went the Tyr 2. This was perhaps the biggest shock. The sound warmed up, everything became bigger, more detailed with better dynamics. The USB cable balanced the speaker cables out perfectly. However the traces of the cooler presentation still remain.
I ran this combo for 2 days listening to my reference music as well as the new stuff. But…after pulling out the Tyr 2 speaker cables and reintroducing FrontRow, I prefer the warmer, more vibrant and more delicate presentation with the FrontRow speaker cables. It’s hard to put back the AQ Diamond USB. My system never sounded this good. With Tyr 2 the bass is just so fast, deep and textured, the highs are crystal clear, there’s color in the mids that I’ve not heard with the Diamond.
I need to figure out next steps. I’m planning to give Audience FrontRow USB cable a try. The AQ Diamond is a nice USB cable but it just doesn’t hold a candle to Tyr 2.
Honesty I’m super happy with the FrontRow speaker cables. They’re not exactly cheap but I’ve not heard anything better up to this point. I satisfied my curiosity about the full Nordost loom and as in the past mixing and matching works out better for me.

@audphile1 

Thanks for posting your impressions. Your assessment aligns with mine, I have yet to find analog and digital cables from one brand offering great synergy and competing with very best, within my budget..LOL!  Usually it’s one or the other.

@audphile1  Your impressions of the AQ Diamond USB and what I experienced with my frontRow Reserve USB vs the AQ are the same. All the detail is still there but the mids filled in nicely and over time the bass is just amazing. So quick, detailed and textured. I don't know how the Tyr  2 will compare. Keep in mind I don't know how the "regular" frontRow usb cable compares, I went crazy and got their top of the line USB. (I am fortunate in that I only need a .75 meter cable which keeps the costway down) I imagine they are very similar with the reserve possibly being a hair smoother. I don't know that for sure, just a guess.

@lalitk yep. Mix n match always worked for me. I think Nordost came close to being perfect as a full set but the flavor offered by the Audience speaker cables is just more to my liking. 
 

@fthompson251 I used to run Audience AU24se+ USB cable in my system and it was fantastic. I expect the FrontRow to be even better. Unfortunately I need 1.5m and in that length the Reserve is more than I want to spend on a digital cable. 

So if you don’t like conductor you can use Roon, albeit the sound quality is degraded slightly (as with most Roon ready streamers).

@audphile1 For me that slightly has been a smaller and smaller slightly over the past year. I am going to say it might even be a dead heat now, not better not worse, just a different sound. Maybe I just don't care enough anymore as my brain keeps telling me "a little more air, less bloom, but I have to use that #$@ UI!" Not surprisingly I am using Roon about 95% of the time. That is squeeze for me, not conductor though, I have read conductor is much nicer to use. 

I have transitioned to ROON so I am using ACS for storage, library management and ripping. ROON now has a capability to show your folders, so I see mirror image of my ACS folders in my ROON app.

@lalitk what are your impressions between software choices?

@audphile1

I satisfied my curiosity about the full Nordost loom and as in the past mixing and matching works out better for me.

Right on the heels of the other "full loom or mix" cable thread, I was as curious as you on what the Nordost full loom would bring to your system. Again, with a different set of speakers your result may have been completely different. Always good to read your experiences, keep them coming!

At what point are we "done"? Hopefully never part of the joy of this hobby.

So would you say as far as the high frequencies are concerned, air and extension, between Tyr2 and Front Row speaker cables are more similar than different?

@fthompson251 Are you still happy with your Fidelium's, or are curious to try the Front Row speaker cables? 

@mclinnguy thank you! I’ll chime in with my updates after I try the FrontRow USB.

As to Roon…

From what I tried as far as UI/UX goes…Roon UI is the best there is. Conductor comes very close. Auralic Lightning DS is great too. Lumin is just not good.
I haven’t seen Squeeze.

As far as sound…Roon is good but Conductor sounds more open and musically engaging. I’m exaggerating slightly but Roon sounds dull in comparison. It’s just meh…

Same experience with Auralic where the LDS software sounded much better.
Lumin gave me no choice so I had to use Roon and it was closer in sound between native app and Roon but that’s not to say it sounded amazing. It was ok.

In the case of Aurender a large internal cache is being leveraged as part of Aurender Conductor processing. All of this processing is bypassed when you use roon. All of the proprietary processing in pretty much any streamer will be bypassed when used as a Roon endpoint. The difference will vary from I’m ok with it to f… it I’m ditching Roon

I believe that in order to get the best out of Roon you have to get a top notch all in one Roon Core streamer like the Grimm MU1 or Merging Tech. Everything else not designed with Roon as a primary objective will sound best with its own software and processing. It’s the degree of degradation that will vary. May be I’m completely off track here but that’s my take on it.

I'm using a DH Labs Mirage USB cable with my N200. Very good results.

@willywonka I had the Mirage. Good cable. You should give Audience StudioOne a try. 

@mclinnguy  Yes, I have settled in on the Fidelium Speaker cables. They made my system sing when I first got them and just quit thinking about it. 

@audphile1  I certainly understand the cost being prohibitive, if I needed longer length i would have got the reg frontRow too. I also kinda made out with TMR as I had some credit to use.

Thanks @audphile1, very interesting. If you get a chance to audition a Front Row USB, please let us know how it compares to the Tyr2.

@fthompson251 I’m 100% certain that the FrontRow USB will be way better than the Diamond. I’m basing this on my comparison between my AQ and my friend’s Audience StudioOne USB that I’d done couple of months ago. I’m sure the FrontRow is even better. I’ve had my AQ Diamond listed on USAM for few months now and no luck. Thanks in part to our crafty friends over at Ali Express. There’s a ton of counterfeit Audioquest cables out there and nobody gives a flying firetruck about me stating that I bought it from the dealer and it’s genuine. Nearly impossible to sell. It’ll end up being a trade in. 
 

@swede58 Will do! I might also give Audience Ethernet cable a test drive. My Purist is good but you know how it is there’s always something better! 

I used to run Audience AU24se+ USB cable in my system and it was fantastic. I expect the FrontRow to be even better. Unfortunately I need 1.5m and in that length the Reserve is more than I want to spend on a digital cable. 

@audphile1 Just now I just happened to be reading an Inakustik cable review from a couple of years ago, and the reviewer quite liked their USB- I know we can't demo everything, but kind of perked my curiousity as he also went through AU24 and Diamond. Pasted below are a couple of highlights: 

"...For perspective, here are the USB aftermarket cables I’ve actually auditioned in my system: Audience AU24 SE; AudioQuest Cinnamon, Coffee and Diamond; Belkin Gold; Cardas Clear; and Wireworld Starlight 7. All of these beat stock USB cables handily, but I ended up with the Stealth Audio USB-T Select. ....

..The Stealth USB was slightly laid back, while the Inakustik High Speed USB was ever so slightly forward. Generally, I prefer slightly laid back, in part because of my room setup, which is set up “width-wise,” so the listening width is greater than the listening depth. Nonetheless, despite the slightly more forward presentation, I found myself more drawn into the music with the Inakustik. However, I had a hard time identifying exactly why. When I listened for specific qualities, such as tonality, soundstage, detail, dynamic range, etc., I was not able to readily discern any major difference in any of those particular aspects of the presentation. Gradually, I realized that I had just a bit “more” in every aspect of the Inakustik, and that the cumulative combined difference was a more realistic and engaging “live” presentation. This was especially true of good live recordings, where the combination of performer placement and excellent detail resulted in a phenomenal ability to focus either on individual performances, on the performance as a whole, or a combination of your own choosing. All of this for about 25% of the cost of an excellent USB cable that I had selected after extensive comparison testing. Very impressive."

https://www.dagogo.com/inakustik-reference-ls-4004-air-speaker-cable-reference-digital-2404-air-coax-cable-reference-high-speed-usb-cable-review/2/

Thanks @mclinnguy the fact that it’s forward sounding is alarming to me. I can’t have that with my electronics. I need cables that are as neutral (I try to avoid using this term usually) as possible. But the statement the reviewer made about the Stealth USB is kind of intriguing. I’ll ask how it compares to Audience. 
In my experience with Audience I like their USB, speaker cables and power cords. I have not had good luck with their interconnects in any iteration of my system, and I tried OHNO, AU24SE, AU24SX, FrontRow. Not impressed. I much prefer my Nordost Tyr 2. 

@mclinnguy 

Roon’s integration with folder views is a significant step for those who prefer a more hands-on approach to library management, especially when paired with devices like the ACS. It bridges the gap between metadata-driven organization and traditional folder browsing, offering both flexibility and convenience.

Coming back to your question, between software choices, I do like Roon’s user-interface and deep metadata integration but it wasn’t an easy transition. I have been in Aurender eco-system for over 10 years and Conductor app remains an excellent option for users who value a simpler, device-focused experience. 

Beyond the excellent Roon UI, I wasn’t quite sold on the SQ initially when compared with Conductor. The comparisons was made between my Merging +player and N20 and later with N30SA. And Conductor always sounded better, more natural and fuller until early this year. I believe it was around March or so, Roon made a substantial leap in SQ and closed the gap between the two. I went back n forth over the course of next three-month period to fully understand what was going on. If there were any differences between the two software, they were subtle at best with no apparent disadvantages. Both software sounded equally immersive and natural through my Merging DAC. 

For my specific needs, ACS is indispensable. You get Roon’s advanced playback and discovery features alongside the ACS’s SOTA iOS app, library management, ripping and ultra quiet storage / playback capabilities. 

@lalitk I wonder what that leap in sound quality was due to. I’m assuming you’re still using your N30S?
I’ve spent weeks of critical listening with my N200 / Bricasti M3 combo comparing Roon to Conductor. No luck for me. I actually ditched Roon - cancelled my subscription for now.

May be the superior OCXO clock in the N30S is the equalizer in your case? Since I’m running my digital front end with USB and my N200 isn’t as good as your N30S, the effect in my system is much more prominent?

Don’t get me wrong I love Roon. I just wish it sounded as good as the Conductor. I’d be using Roon only. 

@audphile1 

To my understanding, software updates to Roon app contributed to bump in SQ. They are constantly updating the software (mostly ironing out bugs) but the updates around March 2024, when I noticed Roon sounding significantly better than my previous accounts. As a result, I sold my N30SA back in July. 

What were you using to compare Roon. Roon did not sound good through my N30SA  compared to Conductor. 

@lalitk I used my N200. Prior to buying the N200 I was using the network card in the Bricasti DAC as Roon endpoint. N200 sounds way better Roon or not. I first started using Roon back when I was still streaming with Mac Mini probably 2018-2019 
So are you using your Merging DAC as a Roon endpoint? Or us your Merging stack the core as well?

@lalitk

I believe it was around March or so, Roon made a substantial leap in SQ and closed the gap between the two. I went back n forth over the course of next three-month period to fully understand what was going on.

That would be build 1401 released April 16, and some say 1413 released May 15 improved the sound as well. Just for those scoring at home.

It’s really tough to discern though. It is not like a cable change where one can go back and forth, once the update is done it is done- no going back. Roon has had several updates since then as well of course.

On top of that Antipodes is updating my server, and squeeze is also doing bi-weekly updates, so always a moving yardstick.

@audphile1 

Merging + player (DAC + Roon endpoint + Core) supported by external master clock and power supply. 

@lalitk yeah that makes sense. It’s exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. This is the right way to do Roon with a purpose built hardware. 

@mclinnguy 

Agreed with your take on these updates. The implementation of software + hardware and little bit of diligence with LAN connectivity is the key between these streamers/servers sounding amazing to good enough. 

@audphile1

You may appreciate this update….I recently inserted Telegartner Opt Bridge 1000M Optical Isolator between my Merging +player and Apple router. You may recall I have experimented with Fiber Media Converter and SFP fiber optic transceiver previously and came away unimpressed as it made my streamer sound dry and thin.

The important distinction between Opt Bridge and any other fiber optic solution is use of fiber optic cables between fiber optic transceivers. IME, fiber optic cables are very effective in preventing the noise transmission but at the cost of dynamics. The Opt Bridge provides optical isolation and 100% galvanic isolation with normal RJ45 LAN cables. With Opt Bridge, I am hearing a definite uptick in harmonics and transparency. The sound is more relaxed and organic without any loss in detail. This is by far the best tweak among all the LAN filters and switches I’ve tried in my system. I am using a pair of stock Telegartner MFP8 Gold IE LAN cables in and out of Opt Bridge.

If you ever get an opportunity, try the Opt Bridge.
https://telegaertner.co.jp/_cms_/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/OPT-BRIDGE-1000M_catalog-english.pdf

@lalitk very interesting! So this basically cleaned up the signal. I have only tried cheap converters from Amazon and didn’t like the effect - it thinned the sound. 
It’s interesting you never know if something will bring by an improvement. I recently moved my EERO away from the system and the improvement is very audible! You just don’t know how much smearing is going on until it’s gone. 

Audience FrontRow USB is in. I got a feeling it’s pretty new and needs some time. I’ll keep cooking it and evaluate in couple of days. I will not be putting my AQ Diamond back until I am done with the FtontRow. 

@audphile1 

Looking forward to your impressions!  

BTW, I just came across this unique cable from Melco. Is this the ‘first’ silver plated copper cable with SFP connection? Also interesting to see Aurender on the compatibility list…does that mean a SFP connection on future Aurender models. 

https://melco-audio.com/c1/

@lalitk I posted a new discussion here. I love the sound but it cuts out after some time. I’ve never experienced this before. I reinstalled my AQ Diamond and no issues.