Hmmm another troll rears it’s ugly antagonistic personality.

Member of the Facebook Audiophile Haters Club?

Or just friends with @andypandy ​​​​@amplifierdude ?

take a pill dude or you will get run off. Been a member since 2000 and only made 122 posts?

Smell like Bill Goat Gruff.

You deny basic physics, invent "facts" which have no basis in reality, and keep preaching your faith based audio religion for profit. You are a scammer and should be banned.

You could have measured distortion of 3 billion db down and still the amp would only sound as good as the execution and parts (the tons of things that cannot be measured yet make a serious difference in sound).  You have your 5% people like Kuribo that think everything we hear can be measured.  And you have the rest of us that believe our ears.  Good luck trying to convince anyone you are correct.....except for the other guys here who think like you......a very, very small minority....with big big mouths.....he he.

Thank you for your opinion.  I honor your soul and I know you are beautiful.  You are worthy.....we are all worthy.

"sonic distortion"

? New snake oil term?

"The measured distortion of an amp is only a measurement of about one one hundreth of its sonic distortion"

Any published evidence or more snake oil unproven claims?

"I made Bruno Putzey’s amp better"

Yeah, sure you did. If you knew 1/100 of what Bruno knows about amps you would be designing and selling your own instead of fabricating bs and leaching off the success of real audio designers and experts.

"There is no such thing as "distortion below audibility"

Really? So distortion components 200db down from the signal are audible? Yeah, right.


LMAO, what a joke. And people actually pay you money for this nonsense? Nice try Mr. Snake Oil but you are full of it.

I never said the amp with the lowest MEASURED distortion is the best (Halcro or whatever). What I am saying is that the amp with the lowest SONIC distortion is the best.

The distortion signature of any amplifier is the 'sonic signature' to which people often refer. Since you can't get rid of it, it needs to be correct. FWIW this is why tubes are still being made.

I never said the amp with the lowest MEASURED distortion is the best (Halcro or whatever). What I am saying is that the amp with the lowest SONIC distortion is the best. And of course, we could argue all day about what is distortion and what is real. The ear knows best. The measured distortion of an amp is only a measurement of about one one hundreth of its sonic distortion (yes, it is important but without the other 99+ things you can do you are just scratching the surface of true transparency). You could take the same design by the same engineer that measures incredibly low distortion on some meter and give that circuit to 100 different people to implement it as an amp.........Since there are so many variables that change the sound.....you would end up with 100 amps that all sound different from each other. I have taken Bruno’s basic amp design’s and made them better sounding by changing and eliminating certain parts. These changes cannot be measured. You just change the AC inlet on an amp to a better one and you have better sound. This game is infinite!

There is no such thing as "distortion below audibility". What we hear is WAY way more than what we can measure. You can just damp the heatsink of an amp and you will hear lower the sonic distortion.....no measurement difference. You can remove the steel plate and bolt from a toroid power transformer and mount it off the chassis on some wood and you will hear a more open sound.....again, no difference in distortion measurements, but way lower sonic distortion. This game is not simple. If you think it is that simple then why would you post on a forum where most everyone listens to things to determine what they like, want, and what they think is lowest distortion? Why are you an audiophile if you believe that all you need is numbers? Just buy a 1977 Sansui Receiver and a pair of Advents and be done with it.

+1

Which model of analyzer do you own?

Hp 8903B Old but it does the job.

Clearly some 'tube guys' do have analyzers on hand...

The ear can hear what is lower distortion. Those that listen to parts and execution absolutely know this. Most manufactures know this. This is why you see more expensive parts being used.....it is not just to "sell" you something....it is mostly because they have spent hours and hours trying to find the lowest distortion sounding parts to make the sound the best.
 

It has been widely proven in scientific studies that certain types of "euphonic" distortion are actually preferable by many over a lack of such distortion. The fact that many people prefer certain tube amps with much higher distortion levels than other available amps proves your thesis that "they have spent hours and hours trying to find the lowest distortion sounding parts to make the sound the best" is wrong.

By your logic, the amp with the lowest distortion sounds the best. Halcro tried that. It didn't work. It is much more complicated than "the amp with the lowest distortion" sounds "best".

Once distortion levels are below audibility, it doesn't much matter in any case.

This amp has rising distortion with load impedance, much like other class d amps which do not have the output filter inside the feedback loop. It makes their frequency response load dependent. This is yesterday's class d amp. Smart designers like Bruno Putzeys have the output filter within the feedback loop to create a flat response with load impedance and reduce distortion below audible levels.

All passive and active circuits add distortion (whether they measure different or not). All passive xover parts add distortion (some of which can be measured). All brands of resistors, wires, capacitors, coiils and their implentation all change the sound. The ear can hear what is lower distortion. Those that listen to parts and execution absolutely know this. Most manufactures know this. This is why you see more expensive parts being used.....it is not just to "sell" you something....it is mostly because they have spent hours and hours trying to find the lowest distortion sounding parts to make the sound the best.

Active xovers also distort the sound. Everything distorts the sound. The less stuff you have in the signal path.....the better. Sinlgle driver systems with augmented super tweeter and woofers are the real deal. When you hear a great sounding amp drving a great driver with no xover whatsoever......OH MY!

However a simple two pole line level passive xover right before an amp can blow your mind, as well. So, if you bi-amp that way.....the results are super. Then you can add a transistor amp with its own processor to do bass extension. Many ways up the low distortion ladder.

Happy Thanksgiving!  We are all so blessed.  Pease share with everyone.

testing 1-2-3

Whatever ….. fng.

About time is done, as this has just been mud slinging and advertising thread for tweaking company. Andy 

No Andy that is this thread dude.

Like I said reading is fundamental......

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About time is done, as this has just been mud slinging and advertising thread for tweaking company. Andy 

@amplifierdude  looks like you got deleted...again.

So sorry it was actually taking a turn for the better.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Of course, but Its irrelevant.

Reading is fundamental.

Tube guys don't usually own things like bench distortion analyzers. Andy

I was asking because if I conduct an experiment, and post my results, you can conduct the same experiment and see if your results are the same. If we both get the same results, then neither of us can argue the validity of the claim.

Which model of analyzer do you own?

Well we will see next week. Do you own an audio analyzer?

Of course, but Its irrelevant.

Passive components downstream from the final output of an audio system cannot contribute noise or distortion, unless the use of timing constants to create cutoff frequencies is somehow considered distortion.

You have a 'proof' issue in that no image you can produce will be considered 'proof'. For that, you need to have an uninvolved party do the actual testing- someone who does not have a conflict of interest.

This is why I gave you that tip earlier- to continue down this path you risk eroding your credibility even further.

Here's another tip: When confronting something you disagree with on a forum site like this one, generally speaking you'll do much better if you apply this simple rule:

Attack the post, not the poster. (FWIW this is actually in the rules you agreed to when you signed up)

It does not matter if someone is personally attacking you. If you respond in kind, you get caught by the internet tar baby. No-one on the outside looking in will be able to tell who is right and they also will not care. If you want to erode good will and credibility, to be known as a troll, that is a very quick way to do it.

I know who Ralph is. That’s why I was asking about an audio analyzer. Surely he can’t be creating the next generation of giant killer class D amps without one. 

"Well we will see next week. Do you own an audio analyzer?"

You really need to do some remedial research about who you are talking to or about. Meet Ralph or atmasphere.

Atmasphere

Sure ....

Many people are content with mediocrity. I don’t share this viewpoint, so I don’t expect you to relate. 

No one could give a

I didn’t report it. I’m not a snowflake. 

Oh poor baby did not like being called an arrogant azzhat.

Well here you go Mike.

@amplifierdude you are an arrogant asshat.

Interesting thread:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?44406-Influence-of-inductor-types-on-distortion-performance

and here

https://hificompass.com/en/projects/experiment/test-couple-iron-core-inductors

and here

This statement is false on two counts.

External crossovers don't contribute noise to any system nor do they add distortion. If either were to happen, it would point to a severe flaw in the amplifier driving the crossover.

Passive crossovers of themselves cannot cause noise or distortion. 
 

Well we will see next week. Do you own an audio analyzer?

Many people are content with mediocrity. I don’t share this viewpoint, so I don’t expect you to relate. 

Why would I even look at all. Very content with my QLN Prestige 5's and Qualiton X200.

Another stupid response by Mike er Kenjit.

Me thinks you ponder a lot and achieve nothing.

No it will just add a bunch of noise and distortion.

This statement is false on two counts.

External crossovers don't contribute noise to any system nor do they add distortion. If either were to happen, it would point to a severe flaw in the amplifier driving the crossover.

Passive crossovers of themselves cannot cause noise or distortion. 

Look harder. I’m pondering over building active retrofit kits for existing passive speakers. Any passive speaker can be converted to active and achieve much higher performance. And the crossover can be adapted to the living space, as well as the listeners preference. Hard to do that with passive speakers without a soldering iron. 

The only reason to not go active is irrational biases.

Or you have not found the pair that fits your listening space, needs or desires.

Another broad generalization Mike or Kenjit.

The only reason to not go active is irrational biases.  

I believe @cascadesphil is right about active speakers/systems being the future, Gayle Sanders' Eikon speakers are just sensational, all you need is a source. Kii and Dutch & Dutch are also making superb active speakers.

Yes because the first 11 pages before I arrived were strictly on topic every post. 

You took it off topic Kenjit or Mike with your lies and your fake data.

We need Ric to take things back on topic. 

I like amps that sound good and measure well. 

This discussion is way off topic.  Needs its own thread. 

Added noise and distortion hasn’t ever improved my subjective listening experience. That being said not all good measuring gear sounds good. I’ve heard many great measuring DAC’s and amps that sound like crap. But when your electronics are amazing both objectively and subjectively, you don’t get improved sound by adding noise, distortion and phase shifts before the drivers.

Oh, that's right, you grade the sound of your amps using measurements instead of an actual listening experience. 

No it will just add a bunch of noise and distortion. And that’s even with top quality copper foil inductors, Mundorf silver/gold in oil caps, and Dueland resistors. I can just imagine what the cheap Bennic crossovers used in most high end commercial speakers (B&W, Revel, Vivid etc) would do to the signal. Especially if it’s 4th order. 

Maybe that will improve the "sound" of your amp.

LOL more data manipulation by a liar and a fraud.

In a couple days I’ll show you guys what that pristine signal coming from my amplifier looks like after passing though a passive crossover.  

I don't think it is even a question that down the road  (maybe 10-20 years or possibly less) many speakers will have everything built in except for a source.  It is the likely the wave of the future.  My Vanatoo Audio Transparent One Encores I use on the desktop are like that with a 24/96 DAC,  That type of set-up with also eliminate much of the cabling between components as well.

Another way is to use the amps in active speakers so they’re not wasted by passing the signal though crappy passive crossover parts. 

I make amps for active speakers. Only music lovers like them because they don’t carry the biases of separates/passive speakers do

Anyone else spot the failure of logic in this statement?

@amplifierdude If I can offer a tip: If you want credibility you're going about it the wrong way. Apocryphal statements like 'I make the best measuring and sounding amplifier' won't get you anywhere- in fact they only serve to erode your credibility. If you really want street cred you need to do two things:

1) get out there and show us how its done

2) keep doing it for a really long time so people can see you really mean it and have dedication.

Put another way, a true shaman or medicine man never says he is any such thing- others say that instead. That is why there are universities and colleges that confer degrees- others have said that the recipient of the degree has demonstrated worthiness.

I'm sure he makes state-of-the-art stuff like -