LSA Voyager GAN Amplifier
This 300 wpc amplifier is a real winner.....
No, you have not proven anything. Again, if you lower the 20K via an equalizer -2db like I suggested it essentially would mimic the response with a 3 ohm load using the LSA.....please do this and tell us you hear a noticeable difference. Actually, Nelson’s amps with tweaks would be even more universally loved. A lot of people find them too warm, slightly un dynamic, and rolled off. A friend just sold his XA250 for this reason. This can all be easily fixed via parts and execution. No, I don’t mod heavy amps. The only common knowledge in audio is that over time enough people have listened to a component that it has a "noted history" of sounding a certain way. My friend used to say...."it all comes out in the wash". There IS NO COMMON knowledge about distortion numbers meaning something in sound.....because there are no tests that prove it....only hand waving from bench testers. |
I know you didn't ask me, but I have Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" midbass with 1" concentric polyester tweeter) with my Voyager. I can tell you it came with CRAP jumpers to the outboard XOs. By itself, replacing them was HUGE. Also until I got the longer and superior jumpers I had to put the XOs on the base. Man that thing vibrates like crazy, and yet I've seen plenty of for sale ads where the owner is using the crap jumpers and has the XO resting on the base. Go figure |
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It's not in his financial interest to admit what others have proven in numerous studies. People who have swallowed the koolaid aren't interested in the truth, it's a faith based belief system. |
Thanks for the input. Do you know at what freq the 12" crosses over to the concentric tweeter? Don't know it it gets to beaming. I asked about the X5 because a 12" mid and a 9" high tweeter crossing around 1.1-1.4kHz is supposed to lobe and mid also beam, and that Deltalite has been praised in other forum. But then again I can't hear lobbing with that same tweeter and my 8"s in MTM xo at 1.8kHz even though it's supposed to be lobbing...so better to ask for first hand experience. |
You guys win....no doubt. Certainly measurements mean everything. So, why are you here on a subjective listening forum? eh? Why not just get a 1975 Pioneer receiver (certainly has low distortion numbers) and a pair of Advent speakers and be done with it. Why would you waste all your precious time trying to convince people that they cannot hear.......or that they cannot believe what they hear? Clearly you guys have a motive for being here. Certainly, you will not convince anyone that your are right......nor will I. The people who listen and decide by listening will keep doing it and the people who decide on what components to buy by specs will keep doing it. Long live us all. I am done this this game. Over and out........at least on this nonsense part of this thread. By the way, the research paper you linked shows nothing. It is not even about .1 versus .00001 distortion static numbers.....which is what Objectivists worship. It is about adding distortion and clipping on purpose to see how it affects sound. Come on....you can do better than that.....well, actually not, because there are NO tests about different levels of static measured distortion and sound quality. If there were, then you guys would be quoted it all the time. It will be interesting to see what Timing3435 thinks of the Topping amp versus the Voyager......$350 versus $3000 and better measurements versus tweaky listened to thang. I may buy a Topping myself to use as a back up amp, and of course, mod the crap out of it. Happy listening.....and happy measuring. It is all good. |
@ricevs, the adult and mature response would be to admit that you are wrong and that we really do know a lot about distortion and how that impacts listening experience. The is not a "subjective listening forum". It is an audio forum. Those that refuse to learn are destined to repeat mistakes. If you refuse to learn the extensive things we know about sound and how that impacts our subjective listening impression or even to accept that that knowledge exists, then how do you ever hope to design products that more than a few people will subjectively like? You brought up Nelson pass before. He purposely creates amplifiers that do not accurately reproduce analog waveforms. Not all his amps do this, and not all do that in the same amount. He does this because he has done the work and studied what he can do to his amplifiers to create a better subjective listening experience with a target market. Not everyone likes his amplifiers and you may like one and not another. And because he did the work to find out what people subjectively like and how his amplifier can deliver it, all an "objective" exercise I might add, he is able to charge far more for his amps. There is nothing "tweaky" or "listened" to w.r.t the LSA. It is off the shelf modules in a box with performance as absolutely dictated by its architecture.
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This part of your post is just petty, angry, disrespectful, and inaccurate. |
Its just the facts, as I see it...and read it......and it makes you angry because you HAVE to be right.....so you lash out and call me names. Name calling is usually the last defense of the ego. You don’t need your ego. We are all ready beautiful. You don’t have to defend yourself. There is nothing to defend....the ego is an illusion.....created so we can have some fun. Don’t take it so seriously. Love you. Now I am reallly done.....he he. I will not reply to you again. Have a beautiful life. BTW, the "off the shelf" modules you talk about were listened to and tweaked over a couple year period by various people in the high end community. Check out Mark Shifter’s comments on this (he was one of the main people). They made it sound the way it does on purpose.....I think they did a very good job. The measurements were secondary to the listening tests. And that is just the way it is. Believe it, or not. he he... |
@ricevs , I try to lead you to water, but I cannot make you drink. I don't think you are reading my posts or attempting to understand them, you are just responding in anger. A careful read of my posts will show that I have never once called you names, though you are giving me plenty of reason to do it. I choose not to stoop to your level. Even when provided ample proof that your claims are false, you still make aggressive, inaccurate posts meant to do nothing but denigrate like this one below. You have tried to take this posts about the LSA amp and make it all about you and what you do. I researched the product the OP is using, asked a question to fill in a piece of information I did not have, then analyzed how the two would behave together, and interpreted that based on extensively researched, well understood, and not remotely controversial aspect of subjective preference testing and psycho-acoustic testing. I presented my analysis in detail for others to discuss, refute, agree with, etc. How about you tell us what is going on with the OPs system?
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Well that is interesting, considering that these are essentially variants on the GAn Systems Evaluation boards that Skip Taylor designed for GaN systems, but with some of the flaws fixed and now sold under his company name. Considering those came out about March 2020 and the LSA GaN was done in July 2020, that "couple years" comment is quite suspect. It does not "sounds" any particular way. The distortion while not state of the art (except for IMD) is below audible levels, so that pretty much puts us at how the output impedance goes up at higher frequencies resulting in speaker dependent objective and subjective differences. Mark Shifter also said this,
... which has about as much relevance to audio and amplifiers as saying "I like blue". Since you don't appear to have anything relevant or concrete to add to this conversation @ricevs, I will say good bye.
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Please let’s stop trying to be right and get back on subject. Back to listening impressions about this amp. What is relevant is up to each person (no one person desides on what is relevant here....that would be arrogance). I think a lot of what Cindyment says is made up.....the stuff about Pass and this amp....he just want to think that way.....he does not know, for sure. That is my opinion......but we must stop all this nonsense. There are much more beautiful things to say, feel and be. I think you are all relevant....you are all beautiful. We can agree to disagree....can’t we. Let’s move on. |
Bye bye @ricevs , I will reiterate, Nelson Pass was probably just being nice, but it is pretty obvious why he was not interested. I am done educating you. I regret the education I have already provided. I will accept that apology now though.
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Wow, you just cannot keep from hammering on me. Nelson is nice, but what he said is real. He respects what I do, but is not interested. How would you know any different from what he spoke. It is arrogant to assume you know something that you don’t. I doubt you have educated anyone. I regret nothing. I love this moment. I speak truth and love. I have nothing to apologize for.....it is arrogant to assume that I do. Throw the hammer away. You don’t need to be better than me. You don’t need to be RIGHT and therefore me WRONG. Would you rather be Right or Loving?......that is the question to ask yourself....every second. We are the same. I am not better than you...you are not better than me.....we are just human beings.....(pretending actually....we are divine light, in reality). Throw the hammer away. Give me some flowers, please. I love you. I have no doubt that Nelsons findings (which I have know about for years) are probably accurate. However, he does not know how to make an amp transparent. He just likes certain sounds and knows how to make them and then makes the ones people like. Transparency, in all its phases, is much harder to come by. And measurements will only take you so far. In order to know if an amp is transparent you need to do a straight wire bypass test on it (which no one does). You need to put an amp in series with another amp and see if it changes the sound. My friend Sieg was doing this back in the 70s with his wideband solid state amp that beat all amps he ever put it up against for years and years. Every little thing he did to the amp, including all the passive parts, power supples, etc changed the sound of the amp. I got him to bypass his junk binding posts and he was amazed by the difference. It did not measure any different. You cannot get to transparency through numbers alone. All passive parts, all execution, all power supplies, etc. all affect the sound. Many, many high end companies know this and that is why they keep making better stuff. Not because they got the new one to measure better.....they got the new one to sound better because of many small but powerful changes. |
Snarky name calling. Again, would you rather be right or Loving? How do you think the majority of people here feel about you? When you point a finger at someone....three are pointing back at you. You only see yourself. Please love yourself more. I think you should stay.....but I would like you to be loving instead of right.......because you are beautiful.....and I want to put a big fat wet kiss on you.....you are so yummy! |
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I said you are making things up about what Pass meant when he spoke his truth to me and that you are making things up about the LSA modules. I did not call you a liar about what Pass loves. I had already stated that different types of distortion produce different sounds and that Pass was doing this. What I said was Pass cannot prove anything because he has not done blind testing.......nor does he know how to make an amp transparent (nor does anyone else). Get your facts straight, at least. I have listened to and read what Pass has been doing for years, so know very well his thoughts on various types of distortion and their sounds. Documented on DIYaudio, reviews at 6 moons and his own First Watt pages. Big fat wet kisses for you too......Love you. |
Unfortunately, no, but the 3.4 is/was a big upgrade from the 3.whatever The EP3.4 is designed to run with a single amplifier and a subwoofer for extended bass response or run full range in smaller rooms without a sub. The 3.4 has our new custom Emerald Physics cast basket 12" midrange the new Emerald Polyester diaphragm compression tweeter and an improved crossover over the original EP3 that it replaces. Our new .4 series Custom Emerald 1 inch exit Polyester compression tweeter delivers a smoother more extended response along with a higher resolution presentation and greater transparency. The new midrange is more linear and has great micro and macro dynamics.
Here’s a pair just for visual
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The only one spreading hate, that i can tell is you. I keep my arguments to the topic at hand, while I people like try to denigrate me, and others with personal insults. You need to learn to practice what you preach. I will call out posts that are quite obviously wrong and a whole lot of those have been prevented in this thread. Seems I am the only one that even attempted to take a critical look at what is happening with this amp and the OPs setup. I am also not calling Nelson Pass, one of the most respected amp designers, essentially incompetent. That was someone else. I am also not complaining that decades of work on what sounds good does not exist. Bye Bye Jerry. Take your anger and hate elsewhere. |
