LSA Voyager GAN Amplifier
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cascadesphil, On this weekend, maybe you will have a c hance to tell us how the Voyager compares to the EVS 1200." " I’d love to hear that comparison also, cascadesphil" All my listening observations to date (I believe it is noted either in this thread or Jay's thread) are and will be posted here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/stock-voyager-gan-amp-350-600-contrasted-with-my-evs1200-600-... The reasons are explained in the thread. I limited the comparisons to the two amps (and in that thread) are there (and if additional comments are posted they will be there as well) as there are individuals with no experience with a particular product, let alone in my room (have no idea why people do that - I live close enough to the launches at Cape Canaveral to hear and see them and I'm certainly not going to post stuff about the technical aspects of rocket propulsion and it seems to me that people without direct experience are merely hypothesing based on either no or limited experience with the products using some of the same technology). In process (today) of setting up the EVS1200 in a secondary system (today) sing Selah Audio SA2s. The EVS is a wonderful amp in its own right (and probably severe overkill where I'll be using it). I had a Mivera SE amp (which I sold a few weeks back) which used an IcePower stereo board (vs. the dual mono) and before that Class A/AB amps in the $9k retail price range. Any comments I put related to those things are based on both my personal experience with my system as well as quoting observations of friends who have experienced it in person as well. I don't make blanket statements about products of any kind which I have not heard in my system or other systems I'm familiar with as there is always system synergy as well as the personal tastes of others and I can't tell anyone else what they hear or don't hear or what they like. |
Those $10 each op amps are still standard op amps.....he just choose some particular ones for low noise that are more expensive......they are still a bunch of transistors running really low bias and have protection diodes that screw up the sound, etc. This is way different from using high bias discrete op amps or circuits........really great discrete op amps/circuits just plain sound mucho better than even the expensive chip op amps. Some of the other things you describe are not stock....you are building a one off thing. No one can buy what you are building. Sonicaps are good but not great. Way better caps out there.....including my modded Wima caps. There is always more......much more. We have only just begun. Even though the Voyager/Peachtree has $1 op amps in it....it has been tweaked by many people for great sound over a couple of years......this module is really good. I am sure the StarKrimson modules are good too. No doubt we will have a shoot out between a stock Orchard and a stock or modded LSA/Peachtree some day. By the way, I can mod the Orchard amps, as well. |
And these input buffers are usually $1 op amps.....not discrete stages.....this is true for AGD, Orchard, LSA, Peachtree, and Class D audio. We have to be careful here. as I'm hand assembling 5 Orchard Audio Ultra Amplifier modules in a a single chassis with two 57VDC/14A Toroidal Transformers along with a 3rd one for some reference voltages. The Chips on the board (including the "$1" Op-Amps) were installed for me by a Customer of Leo's who's workmanship is excellent. I'm hand placing/soldering all the Surface Mount R's & C's and some easy to solder IC's along with big Output Inductors. Anyway, since I am under NDA regarding the Bill of Materials (BOM), the $1 Op-Amps are actually $10 a pop x4 once each board ! Resistors and Capacitors are all 1% tolerances and I am adding Sonicaps at the output going towards the fully balanced (XLR) output connections in place of what Orchard normally recommends. Those who Shxt on Class D should have a proper listen to an Amplifier module that's designed form the ground up. The second iteration of last years BOSC (now StarKrimson) increases power output, uses a different GaN chip, and has been improved upon thank's to Leo's efforts and customer input (i.e. it's a Joe Poof....uh I man Proof) design. |
Great report/review Chorus!!! IMHO, they should have named it David for all the giants it slays One of the many things that surprised me was the V plays louder in my large room than the twice as powerful EVS 1200 Depending on when your V was made, it might have factory upgrades, which they’ve been including for a while now hth |
Vibe, Some clarifications: The Voyager I have is stock. A friend just sold his Pass Labs 30.8 Amp and bought the Voyager. I use a Pass Labs INT25 which is fairly close to the same as the 30.8 so his move caught my attention. My setup consists of: -Late 80's Tannoy FSM monitors with XOs rebuilt by Danny Richie. -Innuos Zen MK3 Streamer/burner/storage -Audio Mirror Tubadour DAC with reclocker upgrade. -Uptone Audio EtherRegen On loan: - Wyred for Sound Preamp-fully balanced as is the Voyager. - XLR cables. My room is mid-sized with good acoustic treatments. I listen from 55-70db only. Mostly Blues & Vocals. My comparisons have not been against other $3,000 Class D amps with say 200+ wpc. That would have been optimum for a legit comparison but no one I know near me owns one. I have been told by the same friend who bought the Voyager that he has listened to the Merrill Audio GaN Amps. He felt Merrill Amps did have slightly better SQ than the LSA product. However at $15k-$25k for the Merrill vs. $3k for the LSA let's hope so. He could afford either and he chose the Voyager. My goal is simply to find out if I prefer the Voyager over my Pass INT25. The other amp I compared it to is a Lejonklou Boazu INT-$4k. The Voyager had not yet been fully burned in at that time so I must discard that result. I also own a Line Magnetic 218IA Integrated Amp, EL84, 7wpc, flea power tube amp. I prefer the Voyager's SQ over than the Line Magnetic. Again it is not a fair/even comparison. The Voyager I have now has 350+ hours on it. In my experience it needed 200+ to reach 95% of it optimum SQ. Like most of my gear it produced perhaps 70% of it final SQ right out of the box. I am still performing more comparisons so I am not ready to make my final comments but can say: -My senior sound engineer recording studio friend brought over his own symphony recording on CD. He is intimately familiar with it naturally. He liked the Voyager overall very well and felt it presented his work very well. My initial findings: 1. The Voyager has great presence. 2. The Voyager has strong Bass 3. The Voyager is simply fun to listen to. 4. It will be a hit with Rock & Roll lovers Bi-ampers, and JBL type speaker owners should investigate it. 5. For Two Channel Home Theatre I would doubt it can be beat. To say Underwood HiFi has hit a walk-off home run with this new product is not an exaggeration. Bring on your insensitive speakers with low ohm ratings. Bring on your larger rooms. Bring on your Bass loving listeners. Bring on your home theater, 2 channel sound folks. This Amp may make a lot music listeners into music lovers. As with Ulysses the Voyager may be your siren's song! |
+ another one (for Chorus). My modded Voyager came late yesterday afternoon. My friend is coming over later and we'll first listent to the EVS1200 with a playlist we went through last week and then swap in the Voyager (my system is a pain to get to stuff). Seeing the Voyager in person, it really looks nice. If it is not too difficult, I may try to do a video and put it on YouTube. I did a video a bit after 7pm last night (with the EVS1200) of the first two minutes of one song and when I get it it I'll try repeating about the same time of day with the Voyager (used a decebt point and shoot camera and I'll see if it's not too much of a pain to get it on YouTube). |
yyz, Amp transparency is like cleaning your metal kitchen utensils. No matter how well you clean them, they are not nearly as clear as mirrors. Your eyeglasses never are as clear as removing your glasses, assuming you have 20/20 vision and don't need glasses. You can sand wood with fine sandpaper, and it is reasonably smooth, but nothing like a child's skin. Micro or atomic level? I don't know. Nothing else matters to me that can compensate for lack of SOTA clarity and transparency. |
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I can see ricevs rolling his eyes and saying I am too analytical and I need to love more" I'll give him one more reason to roll his eyes:) I bought the amp. I should have it around the middle of next week (like Tweak1 I was using an EVS1200 but I intend to keep mine and move it to a secondary system - been busy taking pics to get rid of an extra amp and one other thing which I should have listed later today (I tend to rotate to secondary systems and then either sell what's left over or if it is more of a hassle to sell and not worth tons, I'll give it to someone). Since I am certified crazy, I have multiple secondary systems. This should keep me off the streets for at least a few months). |
Today, I am no longer relevant on this discussion. I sold the modded Voyager to a person in the East Coast and shipped it off. So he can chime in with new ears once he gets it next week. I loved the modded Voyager but I want to get that RAAL - Requisite headphone amp for my SR1a headphones (maybe also buy the new SR2a headphones for bed). So getting the CODA #16 + RAAL amp = no place for the Voyager. The CODA #16 is also better than the modded Voyager. I am now listening to the LA4 + CODA #8 + Thiel CS3.7 . It is s great combo. Similar to the modded Voyager + my damaged CODA 07x preamp. Every combination of Benchmark preamps and AHB2 amp with CODA 07x preamp and #8 amp have been excellent. Just perfect pairings. Why talk microns when we can go down to the atomic level instead? I will get back to you on that. The CODA #16 is definitely warmer than the AHB2 but it seemed to have the similar levels of clarity. The #16 is also very powerful and can likely drive any speaker out there. I will use the AHB2 + CODA 07x + Convolution filter with my RAAL SR1a until I get the funds for the new RAAL headphone amp. Notice that I am going to use the Convolution filter here and did not need it with the Voyager + RAAL SR1a. The Voyager was a bit warmer than the AHB2. |
Thanks for your clarification. I do like your window analogy. I'll go further and ask how thick are the dirty films for the 3 best amps--AHB2, Coda #16, modded Voyager? 0-1 microns, 2-3, 5 respectively? More listening will tell. Is the Coda #16 warmer than AHB2? I can see ricevs rolling his eyes and saying I am too analytical and I need to love more, LOL. |
Maybe my audiophile terms are not correct. When I say grainy, you can consider the analogy of a window. With the CODA #8 and pre-modded Voyager I felt that the window was a little dirty, the view had some obstruction. With the AHB2 I think the window is crystal clean. I think the CODA #16 is also like that but I need more time with it at home to be certain it is at that level. The modded Voyager was more cleaner window than the pre-modded Voyager and CODA #8. It is not as good as the CODA #16 in a few ways, bass, clarity, and the size of the soundstage. The modded Voyager is comparable to the 2x more expensive CODA #8. Each as some positives over the other. The CODA #16 overall seems to be the best amp I would own (if I get the money). I can see that as my last amp, though the price is back breaking. Since the modded V has more clarity than stock, is it also less warm than stock?No, do not think so. |
yyz, Thanks. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "grainy." The stock Voyager was warm compared to the AHB2. Since the modded V has more clarity than stock, is it also less warm than stock? When you have the time to A/B the modded V with the AHB2, see if you can note whether the warmth of the V is lessening, to approach the neutrality of the AHB2. The modded V should be an interesting shootout with my Rouge. |
Like I said I was comparing it to my AHB2. Everything else I own sounds a little more grainy than the AHB2. The difference in the Voyager mod vs stock is like the comparison I did yesterday with the CODA #8 and the CODA #16 (with respect to a grainy sound). When you hear the #16 you can tell what the #8 is adding. Even previously, I knew the #8 was adding something because I had compared it to my AHB2. The pre-modded Voyager was also not as clean sounding as the AHB2. I think the modded Voyager is now closer to the AHB2, though I have not compared. When you get the mod done on the Voyager it becomes clearer sounding. However, take what I have wrote today with some skepticism because I have decided to sell the Voyager today to buy the amp in this photo. The amp in the far right. Raal Ribbon Headphones - SRH1A | Page 302 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org I have not heard this amp yet, will do so relatively soon. However, after speaking with the amp builder today, I was convinced to go with this tube amp. I have heard his older model, which was excellent, but this new one is supposed to be much better. The Voyager was going to be my headphone amp since it is not as good as the CODA #16 |
My comment on graininess is in comparison to the modded Voyager. Both the #8 and pre-modded Voyager (and likely the modded Voyager, still need to compare this) seem to be grainy to me compared to the AHB2. However, there are things the AHB2 cannot do that the Voyager and CODA #8 excel at (like power). My CODA #8 in comparison to the CODA #16 is also not as clear. Saying all of this, all the amps I have sound rather good and it is only when you really nitpick do you realize the slight differences. Well, except for the #16 (do not own) which is rather easy to hear the improvement. |
@viber I did find the modded Voyager slightly less grainy than the CODA #8 and the stock Voyager. The CODA #8 has more power and better bass and is also warmer. The modded Voyager is closer to the AHB2 but the Voyager can drive my Thiel CS3.7. I am not sure if the modded Voyager has the same amount of clarity as the AHB2. I have not hooked up the AHB2’s yet, and I am rather busy with work. However, I think my memory tells me the AHB2 had a bit more clarity. I will try to put the AHB2 into the system soon. I just checked the hiss level with my Voyager and the LA4. In this combo there is a tiny bit of hiss at similar levels as the dealers CODA 07x + CODA #16. I am a little surprised that the Voyager + LA4 has this bit of hiss. I had to put my ear to the speaker to hear it. With the AHB2 + LA4 you hear nothing. BTW - I sent Jay an email offering up the Voyager for his shootout against your amp. |
@aolmrd1241 It was guys like you who made me realize there was a problem, so thanks. Talking with CODA and even the dealer over the phone was a a little difficult for me to make my case. Going to the dealer in person was what I figured would resolve everything one way or the other. I was very happy to see the problem show up immediately on the dealer system. I would not say the CODA 07x is dead silent. Not compared to the LA4, however, it is very quiet and even my one sounded great when the volume was high. I cannot wait to get a new one or a fix for my one. |
yyz said...”His 07x preamp was very silent. Not as silent as the LA4 but very close. When we put my 07x preamp in place of the dealers preamp it was obvious mine has some noise issues. I left my preamp at the dealer and they will get it resolved for me.” yyz...Glad you finally took the the necessary step with your 07x and found out it does in fact have a problem not generally inherit with properly operating Coda gear...like I said all along...mine is dead silent as many others also have mentioned numerous times. |
The modded Voyager takes away some of the graininess of the stock Voyager. There is great clarity to the sound now. Sound seems to jump out of my speakers now. If you do not care for the warranty the mod is RECOMMENDED. I drove 3 hours total to my CODA dealer in Los Angeles to finally get to the bottom of my CODA 07x issues. The dealer had another CODA 07x preamp hooked up to a CODA #16 amp in a nice recording studio. His 07x preamp was very silent. Not as silent as the LA4 but very close. When we put my 07x preamp in place of the dealers preamp it was obvious mine has some noise issues. I left my preamp at the dealer and they will get it resolved for me. So I no longer have the CODA 07x preamp to test with the Voyager. I did manage to listen to the CODA #16 amp and that was pretty killer, a desert island amp. The dealer will likely give me 100% for my CODA #8 if I upgrade to the #16. There is a lot less graininess on the #16. The #16 sounds like an amalgamation of the Voyager, AHB2, and KRELL K-300i. The #16 has the first 100 watts in Class A. I got no money to upgrade now but that will be in the cards in the future. The #16 is a great amp, better than the Voyager. The Voyager is comparable to the CODA #8. The CODA #8 is a little less clear but warmer than the Voyager. The Voyager is closer in clarity to the AHB2 but definitely warmer than the AHB2. I am listening to the modded Voyager and LA4 now and it is excellent. A slightly warm but very clear sound. The Voyager and CODA #8 are competitors from what I am hearing but with a slightly different tone. I listened to the song Piano Joint (This Kind of Love) (intro) and This Kind of Love (on KIWANUKA) on the CODA #8 + LA4 vs the CODA 07x and CODA #16 and there is a big difference. The #16 is so much smoother with more detail. I think the CODA #16 + the LA4 would also be a nice combo. The 2 best amps I have now heard for my tastes are the AHB2 and CODA #16. With the KRELL, Voyager, and CODA #8 slightly behind. Though the AHB2 does not work that well with my Thiel CS3.7. BTW - with the proper speaker power match for the AHB2 the amp is perfectly dynamic. |
derek_hawaii, No, I never had Harvey Rosenberg's amps, but only the last Futterman H3AA OTL monos. I started early with a Van Alstine modded Dyna Stereo 70. A Grant Lumley tube amp had much more definition. But I ditched tubes when I bought the Krell KSA 50 SS amp, which showed all these tube amps to be mushy and bloated. At the former Listening Room store in Scarsdale, NY, an ARC tube amp was also mushy and bloated compared to this Krell. I said goodbye to the tube world planet, and moved to the SS haven of Earth. Is there intelligent life in another galaxy? Maybe, and I wish I could afford to find out from auditioning powerful Atmasphere amps, probably the only intelligent form of tube life around. |
yyz, It seems that the modded Voyager still has rolled off HF compared to the AHB2, using the Coda 07X preamp. Can you compare the modded V + Benchmark LA 4 to the AHB2 + LA 4? The LA 4 is still the most revealing preamp. Most relevant here, can you say how the modded V compares to the stock V? So far, it seems that the basic information retrieval gap remains between the AHB2 and V, modded or stock. When you are ready, offer to send Jay your modded V. My stock Rouge is giving serious competition to Jay's undisclosed amp. My Rouge is more neutral, which some people don't like, but I predict that your V will give most people what they want with its slight warmth. This will show that some class D amps must be taken seriously and offer a practical and much cheaper alternative to big expensive amps for providing SOTA performance as well. I don't believe that Jay's group will care much for AHB2 in either stereo or mono form. The AHB2 is not as dynamic as either my Rouge or your V. |
Got back from my trip to Texas and started playing the modded Voyager on my RAAL SR1a headphones. The Voyager was playing constantly while I was gone, my estimate is 72 hours of post mod burn-in. In the past, my comments on the Voyager with the RAAL was that it was not a great combo, just OK. Something seemed off compared to the CODA #8, KRELL K-300i, and the Benchmark AHB2 (this required a SR1a specific Convolution filter running on ROON Core). Today, I am running the Voyager without any Convolution filter to my CODA 07x preamp and RAAL SR1a. The sound is like the AHB2 but I do not need the Convolution filter to tame the highs. Just brilliant sound. Amongst the best sounding RAAL amps now, along with the CODA #8, KRELL K-300i, and AHB2 (with filter). There is less bass than with the KRELL but similar levels as the AHB2 and CODA #8. I have not played the modded Voyager on my floor standers since I got back from my trip but based on my comments last Thursday I expect greatness (maybe more). I cannot test this now since the family is sleeping. The fact that the Voyager sounds so goods with the RAAL and Thiel CS3.7 (on Thursday) is the best possible outcome. I can use either of the amps on either speaker and have great sound. This was not the case prior to the mod. There were some posters earlier on this thread that were saying mods do not work and the comments by people like me are confirmation bias on the money spent. In my case, I have a few amps that I am comparing the mod with and I think I have a good baseline of where the pre-modded amp stood with respect to my other amps. ****************************** On Monday, I am taking a drive to the dealer that sold me the CODA 07x preamp and I will figure out once and for all if my preamp has an issue with hiss. |
Viber, so you briefly worshiped at the altar of the Tube God, with Harvey "Gizmo"?. My dream cult amp for a while. You must have fun audiophile stories in NYC then, between your monthly reads of the Audio Amateur and TubeGod pamphlets, and scoping out the rigs at Sounds by Singer.😍 Are they still prominent? |
Parts Connexion also sells their own branded version - https://www.partsconnexion.com/CONNEX-83389.html |
These are the Nobosound spring feet (I have a couple of sets on transports) - https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Aluminum-Speakers-Isolation-Amplifiers/dp/B07K9ZYP84 |
Tweak1, The above amazon link will show everyone who presses on it....their own history on amazon......not your history. Please show a link to the actual product you bought. Here is a link to another version of what you have: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093F3RZJ2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B093F3RZJ2&pd_rd_w=s... Using less of the footers (like Tweak1 is doing...three of them) and using less springs in each one will lower the resonance and probably give the best sound (tunable to taste). Tweak 1’s error has us all springing into action.....he he. So, yes.....use better footers under the Voyager.....the stock footers are muddy sounding.....and these sprang thangs are cheap. Other things might be better.......experiment. |
I found the stock Voyager feet to soften the leading edge which also affects size and clarity of instruments and sound stage. I use Nobsound springs which are taller than the stock footers, so easy peasy. I started with 4, but now am using three, one directly under the power supply I also removed the top cover which rings when you tap it. I think Ric is placing deadening material hth https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/order-history/?ref=hud_2_gw_profile&pf_rd_r=54YT2RX194GRYAPRRH2J&a... |
I just got my @ricevs hot rodded LSA Voyager 350 GAN. First thing to notice is that the ON/OFF switch is no more. I forgot about that and now I need to juggle a bit to see how I can use the amp. My CODA 07x preamp is ALWAYS on and it also does not have an ON/OFF switch. I have been playing Michael Kiwanuka - KIWANUKA everyday for the past few days because I like it a lot. The best sound I have had on this album was with the CODA 07x and CODA #8. There was a lushness and body to the sound that really drew me in. The Benchmark LA4 preamp and CODA #8 did not draw me in as the 07x, it was leaner sounding in comparison. This was the only album where I preferred the 07x over the LA4 in the past few days of listening. However, I was playing more hard rock these days which is great with the LA4. So my next statement is of the Voyager cold out of the box and into my system replacing the CODA #8. I also changed the speaker cables to my inferior Audience Cionductor SE over the Audience FrontRpw. The FrontRow will not fit into the Voyager because it has SpeakON terminations. So I was listening to music in the past with the FrontRow. I played the 4th song "This Kind of Love" first. There is some incredible clarity coming out of the Voyager. It seems more clear than the CODA #8. I need to test this out later but it seems like it. The clarity of the amp is definitely more than before the mods. I know that for certain. One of my complaints on the Voyager before the mod was a bit of a veiled sound compared to my AHB2 and CODA. The Voyager now seems to sound like the AHB2 with power. The CODA is maybe a bit more lush sounding but the Voyager is certainly not sounding dry. I would not be surprised if my CODA #8 became the RAAL SR1a headphone amp in my office and the Voyager the Thiel CS3.7 amp. Earlier today, I moved the KRELL K-300i to my bedroom to be the headphone amp for the RAAL SR1a. Prior to the mods, the Voyager was not that good with the RAAL SR1a compared to the CODA #8 and KRELL K-300i. I will test the RAAL out with the Voyager next week. Along with the LA4 preamp and Voyager. THIS IS REALLY SOUNDING GREAT TO ME. I will get back to doing some comparisons next week when I get back home. Congrats @ricevs this is fantastic. |
yyz, Sorry to hear about your experience with Fedex. I shipped my Rouge amp to Jay last Wed, and he got it Mon afternoon, no problem. NYC to Fort Lauderdale area by Fedex ground in only 5 calendar days, not bad. There's lots of buzz about the shootout he will do around tomorrow. Follow it, and give your impressions, which will be blinded to all except Jay. As with his legendary Rossini/MSB shootout, he will reveal the identities of each amp later, so perhaps heads will roll. |
Sorry to hear about the shipping troubles. Over the years, I've actually had more problems from UPS but in the last several Fedex has made up lots of ground in that department. Unfortunately, I think they really don't care all that much about customer issues from my experience. Many years back I even called corporate headquarers (901-818-7500 - they are located at
942 S Shady Grove Rd, Memphis, TN 38120) and tried to talk to the national customer service representative and that didn't seem to get any better response as I wasn't even able to get connected to anyone. |
FedEx is the worst. They delayed my shipment of Ric's modded Voyager again and now say this Thursday by the end of the day. I hope so because I am off to Texas this Friday morning. So the way this stands for me now is that if the amp is delivered on Thursday I will try to have something setup to play the amp 24 hours a day until Sunday when I get back home. I will listen on Monday. I have upgraded my FM tuner this month. The new one arrives on Monday and I now need to pay for it (always the tough part). I was thinking of selling the Voyager to do so but I am not going to do that immediately. I need to make a longer range decision whether I keep the CODA 07x preamp and Voyager or sell both to pay for the tuner and buy new RAAL tube amp for the SR1a and SR2a headphones. I believe FedEx or US customs destroyed this new RAAL tube amp that I went to hear (someone dropped it). So I now have to wait until November to hear it. So keep that in mind when I give my feedback on the Voyager next week. |
