Good point, i will think about it and try a loaner as I liked the 906 but wanted to go deeper....FYI, I had a pair of SF Concerto (older model) in that same room and the bass (or mid-low) bloated like hell....but the amp may have been two soft and sweet at the time also. |
Maybe you are right. But it seems to me that you would be best off with European speakers like JM Lab, Cabasse, Sonus Faber, etc. since they are designed with smaller rooms in mind.
I wouldn't say the 926 is generous in the lower mids. It is pretty much as flat tonally as I have ever experienced. All you will hear are your electronics which makes tailoring the sound a lot of fun. But I can say that their bass is never boomy in my room. Good luck! Arthur |
you room is 15*14...mine is 11*13...don't you think that this could negatively affect the result? I know we ar only talking a few feet less but I had in mind the 926 was fairly generous in lower mids? |
I am in the same boat and got JM Lab Electra 926s. Couldn't be happier! |
Just pulling your chain El D' |
Cinematic_systems..I get your point. Just the same, there are some small Maggies...even wall mounts. Also, I have messed around with near-field listening to Maggies. Try it sometime and you might be interested, even if not delighted. One thing I remember is sitting directly in between two Maggies, listening to them EDGE-ON. Sounds exaxtly like headphones...I don't know why. One would think they would have to be facing the ears. |
"I have a small room (11*13) and want a full range yet "light sounding" speaker, floorstanding if possible."
Were you suggesting the Magneplanars as wallpaper Eldartford or as pseudo Stax headphones? :)
I vote sub for practicality and effectiveness BUT....
Here's a trick, remove the Yara's passive crossover and put in an active one. BSS, DEQX, whatever pleases you.
That way you could equalize the bass down into the high 20's since the speaker will not need to play that loud in such a small room. If the speaker is ported plug the port to avoid over excursion.
Cabin Gain in your room kicks in about 44 hz in that room so it will take minimal EQ to get the bass extended into the 20's. You room is likely +9 to 10dB at 20 hz and a speaker like the Yara could get to the low 20's (just not very loudly).
My Minimalistic system was flat to 30 hz in room and I could eq the spectral balance a little to compensate for the lack of wall treatments. The system was very very good, your Yara's have the same potential. |
Beheme,
As some of the above post indicate, the biggest problem is your room size and the not speakers. My room is slightly bigger than yours 12 x 15 feet. I have the Hyperion 938s that may be the answer to what you're looking for, but it took some time to fix the room issues. Now I'm satisfied. It will require some sort of bass traps (thick couches or audiphile bass traps and some sort of tweaking to the speakers with proper isolation footers, etc). The Hyperions have very quick bass to begin with so my work was made easier. I would try to stay away from most tube equipment as the tube bass will exarbate this problem. I know some will say some tube equipment do not have this problem, but every single tube equipment I have ever heard have had a characteristic tube bass sound, some less than others, but to my ears always present. Also consider the VS VR4jrs, not exactly to my taste but many seem to like their sound especially the bass. |
gershman acoustics avant garde rx-20! they go down to 24 Hz and can be had for around $2500-$2800 on the used market. i own a pair and they are far and away the best speaker i've ever heard / owned. they can be tight and powerful yet refined and delicate. a true gem and a real sleeper. |
Look at Magnepan, or better yet Eminent Technology LFT -VIIIA New for $1500.00.....amazing value! |
i can't name any slender, high end tower that 'does' boom in the bass. |
Magneplanar speakers don't boom, but they don't go real low either, although it often sounds like they do. If boom is the primary consideration, consider Maggies. |
I don't know anything about your amp, but Revel F-30 (not its replacement, the F-32), Aerial 6, or if you can stretch your budget, the Dynaudio Special 25.
Good monitors (the 25's) would be safest in a smallish room like that -- you could always add a sub, but probably wouldn't need one. |
One very often overlooked speaker for this application is the Aerial Model 6. If you have a decent w/ch amp (at least 100), this is a wonderful all-around speaker. Think about it, how many true 3-way speakers do you know of that have 1-tweeter, 1-midrange, and 1-woofer (7 inch) -- most are either 2-way monitors with 2 drivers, 2-way floorstanders with 2 drivers, or multi-way speakers with multi-drivers. The model 6 is truly unique in this way (really ! start looking). (Bass rated to 35 Hz by the way - but it is TRUE - unlike so many that exagerate). Many down-play these speakers because of their LACK of bass (probably because they have big rooms) - untrue, especially for a room like yours. With the model 6 you have a dedicated woofer, with a midrange driver that can focus on its job WITHOUT worrying about bass duties, plus a 3-way crossover designed by Michael Kelly and his excellent heavy cabinetry (again, find a speaker comparable that weighs 60 lbs). While I feel they are a bit over-priced new, especially with any veneer besides black, used prices are obviously easier on the wallet.
I owned these speakers a few years ago and have great respect for them and all of M. Kelly's Aerials. They are excellent sounding. They have quality Bass (the more power the better though). This is a designer that knows his stuff. Check them out ! |
Go with the a good sub-woofer. Properly setup it will sound like full range speakers that match your room. A full range speaker that can really go down to 27Hz will be too much for your small room. |
I use a Linar 10, 5.1 integrated SS, sweet Mosfet.
I have had my share of good monitors (Electra 906, SF Signum, Triangle Titus) so I can always go back to the 45Hz and up sound and live with it...but you know what this hobby is all about, finding a solution where there may be none! I was almost there with Totem Arros but found the single 4" dangerously popping at lower volume and still, the lower end (sub 40) was missing.
My experience so far is that yes, a couple of 4.5"-5" max woofers work better than a 6.5", although size is not always an indicator of bass response.
I have to admit that short of the sub 35Hz, Audio Physic Yaras is the real deal and a proof that some Floortsanders were designed to sound good in small room. I may drop the quest and buy myself a tight sub, Yara or REL....but that means a defeat!!!!! |
The Walsh 100 Mk-2, can produce concert level music in small to medium sized rooms. Their bass goes down to below 30Hz and can be placed fairly close to the wall-- you won't need a subwoofer. |
In your price range you may want to consider B&W M803 Series II, or M802 Series III, and put them on sound anchor stands. You did not mention what music you listen to or your associated equipment, but my experience is these two are generally good for the price, especially the 803's at around $1,000. The silverlines should also be a good choice as mentioned above, and of course the Merlin's if you can swing the price. I will generalize and suggest in your smallish room, speakers with multiple small/mid sized drivers should do what you want better than something with one larger driver, and I would also suspect front firing bass drivers would be better, as opposed to your side-firing drivers on the AP's. Maybe also look at Taylor Lynbrook monitors on stands, and also some room treatment. just my 2 cents. |
|
I agree with those who said to avoid true full range speakers. A small room just won't work due to the physics involved.
I suggest you invest in a subwoofer. That way you can adjust it seperately from your main speakers. You can tune it specifically for your room, so that it get the absolute most bass, but that is not boomy. (Nothing worse than boomy bass is there?! Man, I agree with you there!)
My two cents worth anyway.
PS (FYI, get a good sub though, one that allows you to really fine tune it to a specific frequency, or else you will not be satisfied with the results.)
Good Luck! |
The hotel rooms at the NY Home Entertainment shows are small & many of the speakers do not boom, especially the Kharma 3.2FEs (which I own after suffering with boom from other speakers). They have extremely controlled & equally satisfying bass. |
Beheme
I had the same problem with my room, 12' X 13'.
As Flrnlamb and Bigtee state, the room is the problem.
I had a few pairs of good full range floor standers that just didn't sound good in this room. I tried lots of things to get them to sound good, Bass traps, room treatments etc. but, in the end went for monitors on stands. I'll take the better balanced sound over boomy bass any day.
This size room will not support a full range speaker, without correction.
I also set the room up in a diag. configuration and this seems to sound the best.
There are quite a few great monitors available for $2500.00 used that you would be very happy with in your room. You could always try a sub if needed. I did try a sub in my room and it didn't work out. YMMV.
Small rooms sound the best with small speakers, large rooms, large speakers.
Hope this helps.
Rick. |
Something like the Role Audio Windjammer maight be a good choice for your smallish room. It's spec'd down to 35hz, but has a small 4.5" woofer that supposedly helps it "not overload" a small room.
I've never heard this speaker, but it has peaked my curiosity on a couple of occassions.....
Enjoy,
TIC |
I think Flrnlamb hits it on the head. The room has everything to do with the sound you receive and a lot of people never hear the true capabilities of a lot of good speakers.
Room correction is complex, timely and sometimes expensive.
You might try a speaker that is lean in the bottom to start with but those room nodes are going to show their ugly head no matter what. EQ degrades the sound in my opinion but sometimes compromises must be made. |
Thanks, willing to spend $2500 used |
I agree with Velo62, I'm using Apogee Slant 6s in a small room with excellent results. Should you want bigger bass the Slant 8 or the Centaur Major as mentioned would also be great choices. |
For all practical setup choices in that small room, you'll be stuck with boom in the 60,50,40 hz and bellow range mostly. You will otherwise have the speakers way out towards the middle of the room and in unreasonable spots to get flatter sound with a full range speaker. Also, that room won't support much lower than high 30hz anyway, from first glance. I think you'd better off with maybe a sealed speaker or more bass limited choice.
Basically, your only hope is to "EQ" the bass woofer on larger speakers, This becomes much more involved.
I'd go larger Book shelves and be done with it. The room/setup is going to limit the qualility of bass you get otherwise, not so much the speakers themselves.
Basically, you got trade-offs, or you gotta "tweak".
How much you willing to spend? |
Highly recommend Merlins if they fall in your budget,good luck,Bob |
I had fantastic results with the Hybrid Apogee Centaur Major in a 11 by 12 room. It was fairly easy to drive with the right mix of tight bass and beautiful highs that planners are known for. An absolute steal at 1200 to 1500 on the used market. |
Silverlin Sonata II or III's |
