Looking for a vinylesk sounding DAC
@invalid @nekoaudio To be honest I have never tried (or even seen) a transformer output dac like the Neko Audio D100 Mk2. What exactly could I expect? I’m using a passive pre between my (active) tube preamp and the power amp and always thought about exchanging this for an AVC or a TVC. And also, I never had a tube dac as I bought my tube preamp first and then starting to get into looking for a new dac. I spent a lot of time in finding the right tubes and would say I’m satisfied insofar. For this reason I still would prefer a solid state nos dac. At the moment I’m mostly looking out for - Metrum Onyx/Jade - Holo Spring 2/L2 - Audial S4 - Mojo Mystique v2X - (Yamamoto YDA 01) Happy to hear opinions about those units. Still open to other options of course. |
@barrista0611 i won’t say which is my favorite, it so depends on rest of system and synergies desired - but here is what i have kept vs gone (have 3 systems across couple homes so lots of duplicate gear) kept: audiomirror tubador 3 se sonnet morpheus metrum jade and amethyst mhdt orchid stockholm paradisea istanbul w mods chord m scaler and hugo tt2 mojo van alstine fet topp/hybrid dac jolida black ice glass fx (upgraded) dena pontus auris d1d ayre codex sold: chord 2qute qutest neko d100-2 schiit bifrost mb gumby yggy border patrol se-i psa directstream topping d90 rme adi 2 dena ares 2, term metrum octave mytek brooklyn benchmark dac2 w4s dac 2-2 smsl vmv d1 many of the dacs sold are good, just didn't work for me tonally, or didn’t seem better to me than less expensive ’relatives’ or alternatives for a similar sound signature a few others out there i will try over time, like a holo, a lampizator... not in a hurry, as the ones i have all clear the bar for being very listenable with the tonality and resolution i seek to enjoy streaming and files served |
@jjss49 That’s - even for 3 systems - an impressive list (with some candidates I’m interested in), thanks a lot for your effort! Out of those you have kept: which one do you think could match best in my case, if you take as a basis that I prefer really rich, organic and thick textures in the mids and an overall fine articulation with a tactile and palpable grip of the bass while I don’t care for the absolute last resolution in the treble region? It's not that I don't like an extensive resolution in the treble too as I see how much this is related to a holographic soundstage but I'm a bit sensitive in that region. Sure this is system dependent but I guess every dac got it’s own fundamental character that it brings with. |
@barrista0611 well, a caveat with the D100 Mk2 and some other DACs with transformer-based analog output stages is that they will have a higher output impedance. So matching one with a passive preamp may be less than ideal if the preamp input impedance is too low or if there is a lot of fluctuation in the input impedance by frequency. Some passive preamps have changing input impedance by volume, while others do not. But primarily a transformer-based output adds some warmth (i.e. distortion), usually to a slightly greater degree in the lower frequencies versus the mid-range or treble, without the negatives commonly associated with a NOS design like rolled-off treble or aliasing artifacts or the higher distortion associated with a tube design. There’s decent set of measurements posted for the D100 Mk2 on the Neko Audio website, and many reviews can be found online. Lumin and Linn also use output transformers in the analog output stage of their higher-end models. |
@barrista0611 That’s - even for 3 systems - an impressive list (with some candidates I’m interested in), thanks a lot for your effort! Out of those you have kept: which one do you think could match best in my case, if you take as a basis that I prefer really rich, organic and thick textures in the mids and an overall fine articulation with a tactile and palpable grip of the bass while I don’t care for the absolute last resolution in the treble region? It’s not that I don’t like an extensive resolution in the treble too as I see how much this is related to a holographic soundstage but I’m a bit sensitive in that region. You are a 100% headphone listener? I am looking at your opening post. If so, my experiences are only partially applicable as I very rarely listen to HPs. So I value imaging (depth, height, width, specificity) greatly with my speakers, in conjunction with tonal balance and timbre on voices and real instruments. For HPs the considerations and weighting of SQ aspects may be rather different. Feel free to PM me. Several of the DACs I really like are actually for headphone listening (Ayre, Mojo, Amethyst) , but I use them for my regular stereo system. I also don’t want to get too specific about the negatives of the various units... people here get defensive and pissy when someone says what they may have and like didn’t work well for reasons a b and c... |
Listen to the wyred for sound 10th anniversary dac,it's the warmest most analog sounding that I've ever had in my system and heard. I put it up against the Sim audio $15,000 dac and it left the Sim audio in the dust it was so much better in every area. Cost is $4,500 and I believe it'll go up against anything on the market. |
First and foremost, Qobuz stream SQ is just adequate, no more than that. I guess you have already bought some Qobuz music. If not, download a good hi res file from them. It should sound way better compared to the streamed one. If you don’t hear a significant difference, the digital part of your system could be seriously improved. By definition no DAC can can sound like vinyl, but something like Border Patrol DAC would be a big step in the right direction. It has a rich organic sound. (I just checked: it’s on Black Friday Sale atm with 20% off). Next (in fact it should go first) - your laptop. Laptop will never sound as good as a dedicated server, full stop. Elasticity, density, palpability you have mentioned - it all will be improved with a good server, along with dynamics, freq. extremes and sheer blackness of the background. I am using Zen. |
Thanks relaks! In the meantime I "accepted" that absolutely no dac will exactly sould like vinyl, not just due to the physical process of a needle touching an LP. So I guess I need to "refresh" my goal and would like to get as close as possible. For the moment I think a good NOS dac is the way to go for me. The Border Patrol definitely got my interest but I`m mainly looking at solid state dacs as my preamp uses tubes already and I spent quite a while with tube rolling. Black Friday: good idea - hopefully Metrum will join in! Laptop as a source sucks, I know. I am already heading out for a PI2AES. |
Really? What streaming service do you think offers better SQ?Why? Aren't the two files identical?1. I don't think there is a service with much better sound quality, that's why I am using Qobuz as well. Some say Tidal SQ is marginally better. I can't vouch for that. But I never meant Qobuz particularly sucked. Any stream is worse than a dedicated server. 2. Files are identical, but the way they are delivered are different. Streaming is always susceptible to network lag, latency, interferences, and mains noise. Have you noticed how much effort top servers manufacturers put into their dual, sometimes triple power supplies, into vibration control? Now look at your router. |
relaks ... Any stream is worse than a dedicated server ... Streaming is always susceptible to network lag, latency, interferences, and mains noise.It sounds like you have some pretty serious ISP and/or network issues. Most of them should be resolvable. You may want to consider using a caching streamer, such as Aurender. That might cure some of your streaming issues. |
I finally found an excellent solution with a LAB 12 DAC 1 Reference. Got a demo unit since a few days which performs THAT perfectly close to vinyl that I’m about to say the search is over. The only thing that still is on my mind is the Metrum Onyx/Jade. As metrum told me there will be a black friday discount on the Jade - 20%! Call me interested! Is someone able to do a quick comparison between the LAB 12 and those Metrums? |
