there are some great deals are reference VPI Avengers on Audiomart. I've always been a VPI fan and the Avengers can accommodate any tonearm you'd want to use in the future. the HRX is a massive table and takes up a lot of space. |
There is one guy who plays a fretted electric and makes it sound like a stand-up: Joey Spampinato of NRBQ. And, he does it with a cheap Danelectro! Joey can be seen and heard playing in Keith Richard’s documentary on Chuck Berry, "Hail Hail Rock ’n’ Roll". Great, great bass player (Keith offered Joey the job of replacing Bill Wyman when Bill left The Stones, and was turned down. NRBQ was a far, far better band than The Stones), one of the three best I’ve seen live, the other two being Rick Danko of The Band and John Entwistle (by far the best musician in The Who). |
Not only did Wyman play it as if it was an acoustic (vertical), but contrary to popular lore and Jaco's own claim of being the inventor of the fretless he actually played a fretless on some early Stones recordings. Jaco, of course, was the one who really popularized the fretless; amazing player.
Love the LP12, btw. Owned one years ago (TNT6 currently) and agree that properly setup it is an excellent table.
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Good points frogman, but remember, there ARE electric basses without frets. Rick Danko played a fretless Ampeg electric bass in The Last Waltz, and it was a hollow-body ta boot. Jazz bassist Jaco Pastorius played a fretless Fender electric, and if you had called it a bass guitar to his face you would have shortly thereafter seen his fist heading towards YOUR face! Most electric bassists DO play it with the neck straight out, almost parallel with the floor, but think back to the early Stones; Bill Wyman played his Framus hollow-body electric with the neck and headstock pointing up at the ceiling, like a stand-up. There are pictures from the 1950’s of the early Blues bassists playing the new electric basses, having just switched over from their stand-ups; the electrics were easier to lug around the country on road trips. Some of them were playing their electrics as if they were acoustics, which is, I suspect, why Wyman chose to play his bass in that manner as well. |
We are our experiences. That's all I can say.
However, if someone on this marvelous forum wants to gift me a new, fully tricked out LP12, I'll be happy to publicly eat my words... :-)
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audiovideonirvana, I don’t doubt that your 80’s Linn didn’t sound that great....due to the weakness of the arm. Question is how much influence people have when they go on a public forum...and post opinions that the whole line of tables is just no good based on their highly "limited" experience. I see so many posters on this and other forums who jump to conclusion based on their " limited experience" with the LP12. None of these guys have ever heard a top level LP12, or have ever heard one that is correctly set-up and/or are comparing an old model ( many times from the 80’s--occasionally from the 90’s!--if they have heard the table at all!) to something that now floats their boat. Problem is that what now floats their boat is usually a table that cannot hold a candle to a top line Klimax LP12!
BTW, how many other tables can you say this about...after "thirty years" the option of "fixing up" ( whatever that means to you) is an option for the table. Try saying that with a thirty year old VPI!! You cannot even update most VPI’s to the current level after a few months, LOL. Oh, I forgot, they have a new version out now, leaving the old model to collect dust!
The one thing I do agree with you on is when you say..." If someone gave me a brand new Linn, with all the SOTA bells and whistles it could accommodate, I bet I’d be singing a different tune"!!!! You bet you would buster!!! |
@bdp24 - perhaps you are correct as a matter of terminology, but it becomes like ordering non-decaffeinated coffee- an acoustic bass to distinguish it from the far more common electric bass in rock or blues? Yeah, I get it, but the instruments sound different, and I guess I'm just expressing my preference for the double bass, given the tone, etc. Ditto on the B-3. Ain't nothing like it.
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daveyf,
Fair point. But experience is everything. Mine was not good.
I knew after a month or two of using it that the Grace arm was the weak link in my system. I told my dealer this and he agreed. But the price of a new Linn arm and cartridge -- I wouldn’t buy anything else -- was prohibitive. My hobby dollars have to be spent wisely. Even you would have to agree that "fixing up" a thirty year old turntable is fraught with a limited return on investment. Fortunately, when I sold the system as separate entities, I broke even.
If someone gave me a brand spanking new Linn, with all the SOTA bells and whistles it could accommodate, I bet I’d be singing a different tune. Alas, that was not the case...
(P.S., and, it was single speed only, which precluded me from listening to my high-end 45 RPM LPs (and my youthful 45s as well...)
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Agree, but it’s not difficult to see how and why the "bass guitar" designation came about. First of all, the electric bass gained prominence at first, and mostly, in ensembles in which the electric guitar was already in use. It is shaped like a guitar and is played horizontally like a guitar; and, importantly, it has frets like a guitar which the acoustic bass does not. Obviously, its musical function is that of simply BASS; but, not hard to understand why it was referred to as bass guitar and some still do. Like you say, it’s mostly a matter of semantics and, to a degree, musicians’ pride and respect for their "axe" (applicable to any instrument); and ensuing "lingo". For me this falls in the camp of something like the use of "sax" instead of "saxophone". C’mon, man, it’s a saxophone not a "sax"....yuk!
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With all due respect Bill, John is not right. I’ve played with a few stand-up bass players (plus a "stand-up electric bass" player, but that's another story), and you’re right, a stand-up sounds very different from an electric. A good way to appraise the quality of a sub (or the woofer of a full-range loudspeaker) is to play a good recording of an acoustic bass through it; the better the sub, the more you hear it’s true timbre, tone, and woody resonance, which is markedly different than that of an electric bass. The hollow body of an acoustic has much more depth than does the electric’s solid plank of wood, only the sound of it’s vibrating strings being amplified. Some early Rock ’n’ Roll and Blues recordings contain the stand-up bass playing of Willie Dixon. Modern day Rockabilly bands wouldn’t dare have an electric bass---that would be sacrilege! One stand-up player I worked with put a pick-up on his, running it into his electric’s amp. The other was more of a purist, using a microphone. Atkinson apparently believes that an electric bass, by virtue of it not having the large, hollow body of a stand-up, is now the mythical "bass guitar". There are a couple of things wrong with that belief: 1- The bass, and the guitar, are tuned an octave apart, the guitar, obviously, the higher. Putting a pick-up on a bass does not change that fact. Whether the bass is a solid body electric, or a hollow body acoustic/stand-up, they are tuned the same, and play the same notes---bass notes. They are both basses---one an electric, the other an acoustic. The fact that the electric has the movement of it’s strings turned into an electronic signal does not change the fact that the notes of those strings are still bass notes, not guitar notes. The same can be said about an electronic organ; a Hammond B3 is just as much an organ as is a Pipe Organ, not by virtue of it being electronic now being named something else. An electronic organ vs. a pipe organ, an electric bass vs. a stand-up bass---same difference. Atkinson is not the first to call the electric bass a bass guitar, and neither I nor any bass players I know have any idea where that originated. What is surprising about Atkinson using that term is that it is commonly used by beginners and non-players, never, and I mean never, by seasoned bass players themselves. If you call the instrument in the hands of a good and/or pro bassist a "bass guitar", he will either take that as an insult, or dismiss it as coming from someone who just doesn’t know any better ;-). 2- An electric guitar and an acoustic guitar play the exact same notes as each other (assuming they are both 6-string versions, and tuned the same). The solid body and the pick-ups of an electric guitar does not make it instead a bass ukulele, if you follow my analogy. It is still a guitar, just an electric one. Same with an electric bass. 3- The standard electric bass has four strings. In the early 1960’s, Fender came out with a 6-string bass, naming it the Fender 6. It was still considered a bass, it’s four lowest strings tuned the same as those of a 4-string, the two extra strings tuned, as with the others, an octave above the corresponding strings on a guitar. Brian Wilson sometimes had one of his three bassists play one, the other two being a solid body Fender electric an a stand-up acoustic. Guitarist Duane Eddy played some of his distinctive early 60’s songs on a Fender 6---very cool sounding! The Fender 6 used lighter-gauge strings than a 4-string electric bass, and it’s tone was about halfway between a 4-string and an electric guitar. It was still considered a bass, though if any instrument could conceivably be called a bass guitar, it would have been the Fender 6. In one sense, it’s just a matter of semantics---everyone knows what instrument is being referred to when someone says bass guitar. But come on, think about it literally: what the heck is a bass guitar? That’s an oxymoron! |
Ok guys, you do realize that any table is only going to be as good as its weakest part....and if that part is the arm, then blaming the table for the weaknesses in the arm, is imho a little crazy!!!
The LP12 is a system, which is what makes it a great deal imo. One can start out at a low level, and as funds allow, improve the table to SOTA. How many other tables can you say that about?
audiovideonirvana, do you think it is ok to decry the LP12 based on your experience with an 80’s model,and even by your admittance, a sub par arm that you were listening to???
compare today a new Klimax level LP12 with a Radikal D against any VPI you care to mention....I know which one I would pick....!
which is why I own the LP12 and not the VPI.
YMMV.
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The VPI cost question can be answered at $7k for the HRX listed for sale here on Audiogon. I am not a fan of the arm (own one) but if you are then that is one heck of a rig.
Dave |
"How much does a 'real VPI' cost these days??"
Good question! As much a souped up Linn! The VPI Prime Signature is about $6K; the Avenger Standard is $10K; the bespoke Classic Direct is about $35.
Since getting into this insane hobby in 1975, I had always wanted a Linn Sondek LP12. When I purchased it used, I spent about $800. This included the table, the Cotter cables, and the tonearm. I bought a Sumiko Blackbird, which is no slouch when it comes to cartridges, and a Clearaudio phono preamp. Even with all of that I couldn't get good sound out of it, even after tweaking the suspension, it was still not good. I think the comments made here about the table being quirky are very true.
I knew that my table's Achilles heel was the Grace tonearm. But my financial decision came down to this: should I invest in something brand-new, or should I throw money -- at least $1K or more -- at a 30-some-odd-year old turntable with one speed. I chose the former and bought a VPI player. And, I have to say, out of the box, using their internal phono preamp, it sounded worlds apart from the Linn, better than I expected.
That's my story.
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@bdp24 - but Atkinson may be right about that. Last time I heard James Hunter, that blue-eyed soul devil with the killer band, I was reminded of how good rock and roll sounds with a double bass. Tone, tension, and a less "thudding" sound even when amplified. PITA to haul I guess, like a real B-3 rather than an electronic emulation of one.
There was a lawyer once in a matter that thought it was pronounced like the fish-
Life can be endlessly amusing if you are willing to take the ride.
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John Atkinson is still happy with his LP12. But then, he calls an electric bass a "bass guitar" ;-) . |
How much does a "real VPI" cost these days?? Listen to an Akurate level LP12 and up, and then to a VPI that is in the same cost strata...and I think most will come away in the Linn camp.
OTOH, a VPI dealer may not agree, LOL |
A "real Linn" purchased new costs upwards of $10K+. I’ll pass. There is better value to be had for that amount of money than even a new Linn. All I know is that my current analog front end sounds great and does not have the blah sound I suffered with for the seven years I had the LP12. Even after "fixing" it at a Linn dealer it was blah. I’m very happy with my VPI. If I ever have the cash to improve my rig it’ll be a VPI, no doubt.
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Audio video nirvana, sorry but your LP12 was anything but a decent "Linn rig". The Grace tonearm was nothing special at all, imo. (Never mind the Cotter cabling, lol)Perhaps it was ok back in the 80's, but even then Linn had the Ittok, which IMO was a far far better arm. Are you sure that you want to lump all LP12's with the " decent Linn rig" that you had back in the 80's!! |
I had a single speed 80s vintage LP12 with a Grace tonearm, Sumiko cartridge, and Mitch Cotter cabling. A decent Linn rig. I went to my Linn guy once for suspension readjustment. Sadly, the table never had the oomph and vaunted sound quality I'd hope it would have based on everything I'd read. I gave up on vinyl (again) for a time until I bought the VPI Player. The VPI leaves the Linn in the dust on all fronts. I think I, and many others, have fallen for the LP12 hype and then have had the reality crash down on us. |
...once set up properly...adjusted accurately, how do you get it home?
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Rossb, you are discounting a lot of things...a) the set-up tech was competent,( remember a lot of the old school techs had never set up a Radikal before, this power supply and motor change is a very different animal to just swapping in a Lingo!) b) you were able to correctly place and level the table once the set up was completed, which is one of the issues that many Linn owners have after they take the table back from the set up tech, c) whoever installed the Radikal knew what they were doing...perhaps it was a different tech who installed the Radikal to the set up tech....or perhaps it was you!
I can absolutely tell you with complete certainty, IF you had a problem with speed stability with a Radikal, then you or someone else had set up the upgrade in a faulty manner. Period.
Blame the company or the table design or whatever, but be absolutely certain you never heard your Linn Radikal the way it was meant to be heard ( and does sound!!!) ... or for that matter what you paid for,i don’t blame you for being upset....but you really have no idea as to why you did not get what you paid for, imho.
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daveyf, let us assume for the sake of argument that you are right and that the only problem with my LP12 was that it was poorly set up. If that is true - and it's not, but leave that aside - it follows that a competent and experienced Linn technician who has been doing this for 30 years cannot successfully set up the turntable then there must be a fundamental problem with the turntable's design.
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They did- my decks are stable with heat and air conditioning :)
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Rssb....You're absolutely right. The Linn is inherently unstable. I remember those days having the turntable on the Linn support so that I could get to adjust the springs. Perfect.... after 1/2 hour....the heat in the house went on, and it started to bounce sideways again. Everyone should get and enjoy what they want, but it was too time consuming for me....I had a day job already. I should say that this was years ago...I don't know the new ones...they might have fixed it.
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I am very familiar with the Stiletto- I did the demo at my dealer's in the UK last October. I am also very familiar with all of the Tangerine Audio products, I have a Karmen top plate on one of my decks. My dealer, Peter Swain, has a very close relationship with the owners of Tangerine products and he is usually one of the first people to evaluate their new products. I know the Scorpion base was in production- was not aware that these were already being shipped??
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Varyvat,
I fitted them myself. I am also trained by a longtime Linn tech.
The Stiletto fitting is way easier than a stock Linn as it does not have
a sprung/curved top plate to deal with. The stainless top plate requires proper fitting and is an artform in itself. If installed incorrectly, the suspension bolts are very difficult to get properly aligned for a correct bounce.
The stilletto does away with all of that hassle as it it is one piece precision and the suspension bolts are precision machined. I will repeat what I said earlier, the antiquated spring and gromet design is what makes the whole system a pain. Non concentic wire springs that are adjusted to conteract each other for a vertical bounce definately takes practice and experience to get it right. The fact this still exists today with better technology is a shame especially for the prices they cahrge and making most customers reliant on a set up technician. For a turntable with a storied history, Linn customers deserve better. Linn could of course correct this but they clearly are concerned with marketing other areas of their product line. |
mem2112- who fitted the Stiletto and Scorpion for you?
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rossb, you think the platter is constantly trying to balance itself on top of three springs, while simultaneously resisting the sideways force of the belt???? Where does this come from???
How on earth do you think a suspended chassis turntable typically works...I guess you don’t believe in suspended chassis designs. To say that the speed stability with the Radikal is poor is just more ’bs’ IMHO.
Kuzma has great speed stability....due to what?? Frank Kuzma believes in a multi layer chassis hoping to do away with outside interference...question is does this really work better than a spring suspension..You tell me?
If you had a problem with speed stability with your LP12, it was simply because you either had it on a non-level surface, or you had no idea as to how to set it up, or both! Luckily with the Kuzma, it’s pretty much plonk it down anywhere and walk away, unfortunately with the LP12 you cannot get away wth that....as you found out! |
daveyf, do you honestly think I would spend $20k on a turntable and not try to solve its problems? I spent 6 months with my dealer (a very experienced and highly regarded Linn technician) working on it. There was nothing wrong with the Radikal. The problem, as it always has been, is the Linn suspension, which is inherently unstable. Speed stability from any Linn deck is audibly inferior to most others, because the platter is constantly trying to balance itself on top of three compressed springs, while simultaneously resisting the sideways force of the belt. It doesn't matter how good the power supply is because the turntable design itself is fundamentally flawed, and this is audible.
I get that you like your LP12. But that does not mean that people who cannot accepts its undisputed shortcomings are deaf or fundamentally incompetent.
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I remember when I learned of the LP12. It was in the middle of 1974, and the table's retail price was $300! I had a Thorens TD-125 Mk.2 (with an SME 309 Series II Improved) at the time, and almost bought a Linn for myself. |
whart, the price of a fully updated Linn LP12 is a little difficult to really nail down. The recently released 40th anniv issue with the whisky plinth came in at $40K! A limited edition model, this apparently sold out in days! Nonetheless, the Klimax model comes in at considerably less than that...appx. $20K with the Klimax case Radikal and Urika. ( Which IMO is not that much of an upgrade over the Akurate cased Radikal, but is priced considerably higher--and I would also skip the Urika phono stage).
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@rossb - I have had two Kuzmas as well; first the Reference, with a Triplanar, which was very easy to set up and run with minimal grief over isolation; then the XL, which was a huge pain to isolate given its mass, but well worth it once I got that sorted. (I now use a Minus K- a somewhat spendy solution, but pretty foolproof). Airline arm- magnificent- though bettered in some respects by other arms in aspects like bass performance, it has an effortlessness that, in combination with the big Kuzma, makes you forget a record is spinning. Downside- having to use an air compressor is added grief. Never had an issue with the arm, now going on 11 years. Air compressors- on my third one.
I remember the Linn shortly after its introduction. It was lively, gave much sparkle and life to the stuff coming off the disc. I never really paid much attention to its evolution. When I lived in Brooklyn Heights, my local hi-fi shop, Innovative, probably sold more Linn stuff than any place in the States. There was a cult around the the product line, the demonstration process, the source first approach, etc. My relations with the dealer were always cordial but I wasn't part of the club. I remember having them retube an old ARC preamp back in the early '80s- I bought NOS Telefunkens to supply them with the tubes- they were a little pissed about that for some reason- mark up on the tubes? But, the sales staff was pretty surprised at how good that old thing sounded when they had it running.
I take no position on Linn these days-- if someone has one and likes it, fine. If someone is thinking about buying into the product today or upgrading it, I think there are other options. It is incumbent on the buyer to do their due diligence. The hard part is comparing tables and arms in a controlled way as part of the pre-purchase process. I think the owner experience is important though, and what's telling is often the "you didn't set it up right" problem. This seems to be very common with Linn and not a new phenomenon.
There should be no magic in set-up. Experience, yes. A willingness to go to exacting lengths to get it dialed in. But part of the value of high end gear in my estimation is not only reliability in the general sense, but repeatability. Settings that can be made and pretty much left alone. Whether that is true of Linn I can take no position on- since I never owned one and doubt I ever will at this point in my life. Just out of curiosity, what is the cost of a fully updated Linn deck and arm today? @daveyf ? You should know, right? |
rossb, you say you had a LP12 with a Radikal power supply and it had poor speed stability????? What the heck are you talking about! Poor speed stability with a Radikal power supply would lead me to say that something was drastically wrong with your set-up...so much so, that either you had a major fault with the power supply, or something else was very amiss! Too bad you couldn’t have figured out what the problem was, your investment in the table would have then made a lot of sense to you and you would NOT have posted what you did! |
I have 2 Linns. One is a stock 1984 lp12 with Ittok lv2.the other is a 1979 or so far from stock. Both tables gave me much pleasure over the decades, up till about 3 years ago. I was going to go full hog on the 1984 model ,only to be miffed by the prices asked for the various upgrades. This led to my current setup of a TTW gem V2 rim drive with 42 pound copper platter and mag lev bearing of my design/Teres Verus motor speed control. I still use the Ittok arm with this setup, soon to be replaced by a highly modified Eminent Technology ET1 arm. So two completely different approaches to spinning the vinyl. the only constant between these decks is the Ittok arm. When I first heard my current rig the difference to the approach of music reproduction was clear. I like my current table better than the Linn. What will be interesting will be to hear the Stock Sondek with the SoundSmith strain gauge currently mounted on the Ittok. That will happen once I mount the ET1 to the TTW. Ron |
I had an LP12 for about 20 years. It went through various upgrades: an Ekos I, Naim ARO, then back to an Ekos II, cirkus bearing, Naim Armageddon power supply. At the end I did the full Linn upgrade route - Keel, Ekos SE, Radikal ... and it sounded terrible. It was coloured, dull sounding and had poor speed stability. The best version was the earliest - and cheapest one. It was very musical but my expectations were low. But after spending around $20k on upgrades, my expectations were high and it did not meet them. And, yes, it was set up by a very experienced and highly regarded Linn technician.
Now I have Kuzma turntables - a Kuzma Stabi S and Stabi Reference. These sound amazing. Even the cheaper Stabi S is better than the full spec LP12 at a fraction of the price. They are well designed and have solid engineering behind them. And they do not need a technician trained in the mystical arts of Linn set-up to wave his magic wand at it every few years. I can set them up myself in minutes.
Thirty years ago the LP12 was a decent mid-price deck that had its strengths and weaknesses. Today it is just not competitive.
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Analogue Innovations. They are great at a reasonable price. Also the Hercules PS |
The Linn is great and I was a VPI dealer before I got sick. I had it modified with gear from ? My memory is shot. Will try to post it!
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stringreen, wrong....the fact that you had to constantly attend to the table tells me that you had it set up wrong...plain and simple! Sorry, but you clearly did not know what you were doing...which is ok, as I and most others don’t either when it comes to LP12 set up.
I have owned LP12’s for more than thirty years...none, none needed to be constantly set up--why, because I always had a pro LP12 tech set them up for me ( and I still do) and this results in the table being totally stable in this regard. The fact that LP12’s constantly float out of adjustment is a myth propagated by those who have never had a properly set up example. Too bad as they have no idea as to what they are missing, IMHO. |
DaveyF.....wrong.....I had the Linn dealer's setup instruction manual, and watched the dealer do it many times before I got personally involved. I knew what I was doing....it was just a constant attention task.
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The most ardent Linn defenders seem to be Linn owners. Are they defending their taste and investment, or the turntable? I'm an ex-Linn owner so I know it well; I was glad to be rid of it, though I kept an Ittok.
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Oops, I meant to say glorified, not glamourized. My first good table was the AR XA, and I watched Brooks Berdan set up a few LP12's. He wasn't too impressed with it, feeling, as did Peter Moncrieff of IAR, that the Oracle Delphi was a far better table. Brooks came up with a mod for the Delphi, adding mass at one specific location on the bottom of it's floating sub-chassis in order to make optimizing it's suspension a snap. Brooks was a race car designer in his younger days, and knew a lot about suspensions, spring rates, and moving mass, and their interactions. He switched allegiance to the higher mass VPI HW-19 when it was introduced, mounting many, many Eminent Technology air-bearing arms on that table. Many Linn owners still swear by their LP12's, particularly in terms of it's abilities at playing music, not just making sound. |
The LP12 was, in the opinion of some, nothing more than a glamourized Acoustic Research XA. A better bearing and superior machining, but their over-all design basically the same. From a design viewpoint, they are in fact almost identical. Linn used it’s claim of the LP12 "playing tunes better" (rather than sounding better in purely sonic terms)---impossible to quantify---as their rational for making the case of it being superior to all other tables. |
stringreen, Pity that you did not avail yourself of a good set up tech! That would have resulted in a much better sounding table and one that wouldn't have gone out of adjustment.
Like so many posters who have had a less than sterling result from their LP12, you want to blame the table, instead of your inability to maximize the table...
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I had an LP12 in my house for about 2 years....I probably spent 22 months adjusting it.
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I drank the Linn koolaid for years. I built a state of the art LP 12
with a keel, Radikal, Cirkus bearing. Then upgraded the Ekos Se to an Audio Origami PU 7 tonearm and finally a Tangerine Audio Stiletto solid aluminum plinth and skorpion base plate. This set up is as good as the LP 12 can get and noticibly better than a stock LP12.
But.......
It is still a wonky design quite antiquated relying on three crappy springs fighting against each other. The LP12 requires periodic adjustments as the sprung suspension behaves differently depending on atmospheric conditions, tonerarm cable flexibility and tension. Even trained Linn techs have to fidget with these things.
After all the money spent (over 16K) there are many superior reference tables that do everything that an Lp12 does lght years better. I know this is true as I have a Spiral Groove and a Tw Acustic each for comparable money and they blow away the LP12.
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I know this is way behind but I do not post much. Try out the tripping the linn lp12 Fantasic site and you will see where these can go! I have measurable improvements in bass and midrange with oscilloscope readings!!!!
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Nobody has mentioned price.With the $3K cart the Linn system is $10K so it ain't cheap.Again I mentioned that I have a Linn as a second deck which I keep saying I am going to sell but don't.Just not sure of I want to invest in upgrades when other decks like VPI,Blue Note,and otehrs exist.But one urban myth is you have to adjustthem every second play.Even though more susceptible to losing there setting because of being sprung once perolerly set up they do hold the setting for a while.Maybe not like a SME10 but there is a tade off for how you set up the suspension hard onmes will give hard maybe faster paced sound sprung ones have there virtures as well.
Chazz
Chazzbo |
Thanks for all the responses guys, looks like i touched on an interesting topic!
Right now i have sold the Ariston and am using the TD 160 (slight mods) with a Shure v15 III........and i find it hard to believe that for around $1200 i will get a worthy performance gain......Is it possible the Linn is over rated?
I like the Shure over the Grado red, although the grado is a little quieter but less dynamic.
I wish i could put my turntable up against a Linn just to see the difference.
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Sorry folks! Thats the result of being tripped out at 1 am still listening but half sleepy. Just to add, I come from a diy background and do appreciate the technical aspects and quality of design/materials used in constructing a good TT. IMHO, the expensive newer linn is using expensive power supplies to "improve" a mediocre toy motor and lightweight platter. The very fact that the newer linns do not have the old bloated bass and colorations implies the defects of the original design - which surprise me why no agoners commented on the "commercially driven recommendation" partnering of linns with "fast" amps like the naims. Again another "solution" to an inherent shortcoming. I got an old garrard 301 and transferred over in the linn arm - despite a bit rough, blew the linn away in attack and authority. Do have fun looking at idler drives. cheers |
Hello Dcc, We can hear you just fine. FYI, the 'caps lock' key is located at your left, just above the 'shift' key. Just tap on it once. Then type away. Cheers! |
