LaScala dac with telefunken tubes

@designsfx  ah ok. i missed that part. 

@tomcy6  ah ok. i assumed we were talkin about old TFs. i reckon those Ei from the 70s or 80s are as close to TF as it gets--they were made with TF tooling. ive never used em, but id like to. 

@designsfx I used to - but now I'm too old. Andy's tube services was good, but the very best came and went on Ebay about 25 years ago.

OK.  Thanks @designsfx   I just wanted to clarify.  It's been a while since I've seen anyone supplying NOS tubes as stock. 

@terry9-

Do you regularly try different tubes for voicing the equipment you own? Which suppliers do you use?

@tomcy6-

The Telefunken tubes that came in my DAC were not NOS tubes (as stated in my post). I upgraded to NOS after the tubes supplied with the DAC had been used for 3 years.

Not all TF tubes sound the same. I have a TF E88CC early 1960's, which sounds positively shrill - but I also have 5 E88CC TF tubes selected for HP, also early 60's, and they are far the best 6922 tubes I have ever heard. 

Although, for all I know, that E88CC may be a clever counterfeit.

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that the Telefunkens supplied by Aqua are NOS.  There are new production Telefunkens being made in Russia by the same people who make the Gold Lions, which is also a classic tube brand that was originally made in the UK.

Does anyone know if the Teles are NOS or new production?

@cey-

I can’t really comment on the difference between the newer Gold Lion vs Tele (meaning the $50 tubes available today). I know this happened sometime after the Optologic version of the DAC was offered but not sure what drove the change. My Optologic was made in 2018 and came with Tele’s (which is why I upgraded a NOS Tele).

@whipsaw-

I agree with that statement- no doubt that Aqua would have made that change if they didn’t feel it to be a vertical move. I do find the subject of “tube rolling” fascinating though and personally wouldn’t be opposed to experiencing the available options. It definitely requires a level of trust with a reputable dealer as only each individual can define their preferences and the world of NOS tubes can become an expensive habit! 
I’m not sure how much research you’ve done on the subject but I found the descriptions at Brent Jesse’s site to be interesting. The tubes for the Aqua La Scala can be found here

gotta say this is the first time i come across anyone whos listened to TFs to say that they prefer new production gold lion to TF (smooth plates? ribbed?) but hey someone eventually was gonna make a circuit where gold lion was at the top of the the tube chain. 

@designsfx

I would be interested to hear your impressions of any differences between the two. As I mentioned, I am quite inexperienced with tubes, and my current hybrid amp and DAC are my first forays into that world. I don’t doubt that there are differences, but it would surprise me if Aqua had replaced the Telefunken with the Gold Lion without believing that the sound was at least as good.

With regard to the review that I excerpted above, I believe Punter to be a serious reviewer, but I'm sure that some of his reviews are influenced by biases. So I do take his black and white conclusion on this particular topic with a grain or two of salt.

@whipsaw-

I’ve not tried the newer Gold Lion tubes in my La Scala as it was made prior to Aqua making the change from Telefunken. I haven’t experimented with tube voicing in my DAC- as you know there are many opinions and options out there.

I have to say though that after switching to the NOS Tele the difference was immediately noticeable- especially in bass reproduction. It would be interesting to see how the Genelex compares to the NOS tubes I have- maybe I’ll pick up a set.

I am using a La Scala DAC, and am delighted with it. I am not, however, a tube expert.

FWIW, the reviewer Christian Punter, who hold the Aqua DACs in high regard, had this to say on the thread topic:

As the manufacturer has specially selected the tubes, it is not recommended to experiment with them but if you wanted to, you could. In this case, my experiment was fueled by a recent change in tube complement by the manufacturer. Up until recently, the La Scala was delivered with Telefunken ECC81 tubes but now they started using the Genalex Gold Lion ECC81. The DAC was delivered with the Genalex tubes installed but Marco was so kind to also include a pair of Telefunkens for me to compare.

Well, on this subject I can be very brief: the Genalex tubes are an easy and utter improvement over the Telefunken tubes. The new ones are much more refined and agile as well as more energetic, yet sweeter and airier and very liquid. On top of this, they provide wider soundstaging and clearer positioning of images therein. Yup, this is a very easy call, no ifs, and buts: the new tubes are simply much better.

Note that both tubes mentioned are fundamentally the same (ECC81). In my case, my satisfaction with the sound in stock form (Genalex Gold Lion) is more than high enough to suppress any desire to roll tubes.

For those interested, here’s a link to Punter’s La Scala review, from which the above excerpt was taken:

La Scala

@jred57-

Hi!

I have the La Scala set up as Lalit describes- it’s a really nice DAC. The presentation is very revealing and is especially nice with instrumental recordings. What DAC are you currently using?

Thank you lalitk,I know someone who has a demo unit with these tubes,I am going to audition,but I think it’s closer to 6k they are over 9k new ,thanks again

You can possibly get this amazing DAC under $5K on used market. I heard many raving about this DAC with NOS tubes like Telefunken ECC801. If you end up getting this DAC, reach out to Brent Jessie for high quality tubes.